Tiptronic gearbox oil spec

[andythechief]

Hi,

I'm looking for advice in changing/topping up my tiptronic gearbox oil. I have a 52 plate A6 2.5 TDi quattro sport. It has a ZF 01V box part number 4B0 927 156 ES. There is no fault as such, but gears are increasingly not engaging when cold (although it is fine after 2/3 mins) and I have read on several websites that despite being a 'lifetime' fill, changing oil is sensible. The car has done approx 70K miles.

So far I have found the following spec info:

Audi specify G 052 162 A2 (one litre size)- I have no idea exactly what this is by international standards.


Pentosin supply an oil they brand as ATF 1:

http://217.237.184.77/shop_produkt.p...9&pid=671&vid=

which they deem to exceed the Audi oil.


GSF supply Fuchs Titan ATF 3000 which is compared to ZF specs.

It appears your 'average' Dexron ATF does not meet the VAG oil spec- only by intuition as I do not have the VAG spec, only the part number.

And I have found a US site which supplies and advocates VAG auto gearbox oil changes (using Pentosin) which is here:

http://www.blauparts.com/audi/audi_f...nsmissionfluid

So my questions are:

1) Which oil is acceptable?
2) Any particular things to know- I already have the specific procedure from VAG literature, but as we all know there are always the practical details to know!
3) Are my cold weather gear selection issues likely to be solved or is this normal?
4) just out of interest, who blends VAG oils- I'm guessing VAG do not themselves?

Thanks in advance.

[nora2004]

Honestly, I would just go for Audi oil, for £9+vat a litre its just as expensive as anything else on the market!

Ive had an A6 2.5tdi and for the first couple of minutes the box was very picky with 160k miles on it! Ive now got a 75k miles 2.7t and its exactly the same!

My Bmw 330ci with 120k miles, again is just the same!

[Shroud]

And also be aware that it is supposed to be sealed for life and my local dealer was of the opinion to leave it that way, unless you have real issues with the box and your are prepared for an oil change to cause further, more expensive issues (e.g. by disturbing bits in the box).

Some will recommend it, and there is even a very small number of garages (mostly in the US from memeory) that offer this service, but lets face it, if Audi really thought it was a good idea, they'd be encouraging all their dealers to recommend it, which they don't.

If i did have it done, i'd get it done by Audi and use their oil, and use a dealer that has some experience of doing it.

good luck.

[nora2004]

Exactly why you should change it, Audi dont have a clue, really they dont! lol

Who has ever heard of an oil that lasts forever?

The funny thing is though, speak to ZF who make the boxes and they will tell you to change the oil at certain intervals! lol

Bmw use the same box, and untill a few years ago Bmw recommended an oil and filter change at 60k!

I changed the oil on my last audi at 150k miles, what a difference it made!

You'll find every Audi dealership will change the oil, filter and gaskets for £236 all in!

[Shroud]

I know you recomend it from previous posts, but a sample size of 1 doesn't make a statistically sound investment, nor does reading up about all the great benefits from a garage that makes money from providing such a service. Audi will do it, but they don't recommend it.

Even if the chance of screwing up your box is only 1%, i wouldn't wish that 1% on anyone, as the cost would far outweight the gain.

But i'm glad it worked for you.

[nora2004]

Its not reading, its fact!

Not changing the box oil will cause damage, fact!

Just the same as Audi's longlife engine oil in the 2.5tdi's, using that oil will damage the cams, fact!

Both of the above i have experience off, now that i wouldnt wish on anyone!

This is taking from a thread in the US, this guy sent a sample of oil off for testing:


Here's the results (I don't know if the units are PPM, parts per million, but I would guess that's what they are).

Key-

First number was New Audi ATF, second number is test sample, third number is unit averages from the oil test company (general acceptance criteria).

Aluminum 0, 75, 35 (out of spec high)
Chromium 0, 0, 0
Iron 0, 136, 68 (out of spec high)
Copper 0, 78, 39 (out of spec high)
Lead 0, 17, 9 (was not bolded on report, do not know if this is a problem)
Tin 0, 7, 4 (out of spec high)
Molybdenum 0, 0, 0
Nickel 0, 0, 0
Manganese 0, 8, 4 (out of spec high)
Silver 0, 0, 0
Titanium 0, 0, 0
Potassium 0, 3, 2
Boron 120, 92, 106
Silicon 2, 8, 5
Sodium 0, 4, 2 (out of spec high)
Calcium 27, 32, 30
Magnesium 0, 1, 1
Phosphorus 256, 248, 252
Zinc 1, 6, 4
Barium 0, 2, 1

Sus Viscocity @ 210 degrees F: 51.3, 47.4, 43-51
Flashpoint in degrees F: 410, 415, greater than 355
Water (%) 0.0, 0.0, less than 0.05

Insolubles (%) 0.0, 0.5, less than 0.1 (out of spec high)

Their recommendation read as follows:

This is an interesting comparison. If you look at the clean sample report, you can see where this ATF started out. Very clean, no metals. This used sample is abrasive enough that we recommend changing it out. We don't necessarily think your transmission has a problem (though we can't rule that out). Without knowing how long this oil has been in place, we can't say for sure what's going on. Metals and insolubles show the oil is oxidized and abrasive and should be changed out. Suggest resampling in 20,000 miles on fresh oil.


Interesting eh?

And the biggest nail in the coffin for me, is the simple fact you can ring ZF give them the model number, in our case either 5hp19fla or 5hp24fla, and they will tell you to change the oil every 65k miles!

[a8 tech]

the original spec oil cause some issues and I suggest if your vehicles fall into the criterion you replenish the oil with the modified type(check with your dealer) plus in some cases the gearbox requires flash updating from 2006 onwards

Any way here is the correct procedure used for newer models with the oil change and sw update to allow the new oil

1. Check the oil level

2. Read save assess the MVB 73-77 (only possible from MY 2006)

3. Reset the adaptation values through a software update or by deleting them (possible from MY 2006).

4. Adaptation of the gearbox control unit: (adaptation journey)

Detailed information:

3. Deleting adaptation values: (from MY 2006)

The values must be deleted after repairs to clutch, complaints about the shift comfort and major engine repairs.

Save MVB 73-77 before the deletion. If the adaptation journey is not successful, the old MVB can point towards the cause.


a) 10-adjustment -> channel 1 -> memory -> accept -> confirm.

The adaptation counter in MVB 73-77 (2nd digit) should now be on '0


4. Adaptation drive:

Note: For vehicles from MY 06 the deletion and the adaptation drive can be performed with the guided fault finding.

With vehicles up to MY 05 proceed as follows


ATF change:

Flush out the system to remove any old ATF (e.g. from the converter).

1. Drain the ATF and fill in new ATF (blue, G 055 162 A...). Check and correct the ATF level


Raise the vehicle about 10 to 20 cm.

All four wheels do not touch the ground any more.



Never run the engine without ATF and do not tow the vehicle.

Important: Do not drive faster than 50 km/h.

2. Observe the display of the driving modes in the combination instrument. Start the engine and release the handbrake.

3. Put the gear lever to position "D" while pressing the brake pedal. Carefully press the accelerator.

4. Carefully accelerate in "D" to maximum 50km/h and hold this speed for several seconds.

5. Carefully press the brake pedal and stop the vehicle.

6. Put the gear lever in position "R". Accelerate to 20 km/h and hold this speed for several seconds.

7. Carefully press the brake pedal and stop the vehicle.

8. Put the gear lever in position "D" and repeat steps 3 to 7 five times.

9. When the vehicle is stationary, put the gear lever in position "P" and switch off the engine.

10. Drain the ATF and fill in new ATF (blue, G 055 162 A...). Check and correct the ATF level

Adaptation drive:

Note: For vehicles from MY 06 the deletion and the adaptation drive can be performed with the guided fault finding.

With older vehicles proceed as follows:

1. Warm up the gearbox with low engine performance till the ATF temperature reaches 60°C (ATF temperature must be below 100°C).

2. At stationary vehicle - idle speed, brakes applied, switch from N to D and hold for about 3 seconds. Repeat five times.

Perform the same procedure from N to R.

3. Shift from 1st to 2nd while driving at low load and shift down from 2nd to 1st. Repeat 5 times.

4. Drive at low load (engine torque between 80 Nm and 100 Nm, see 02 automatic gearbox, MVB 09, 1st display value) till the transmission has shifted to 6th gear (vehicle speed about 80 - 100 km/h) and stay in this condition for about 30 - 60 seconds. Let the vehicle roll to standstill (with gentle brake application at the end). Repeat four times (the aim is to shift up and down at very little load).

To add the long life oil had no part in the lobe wear it was down to soft metals used in the earlier 2.5 tdi engine (get your facts in order)

Also glycol is the biggest oil contamination and most damaging

Experience shows from a recent valve chest replacement after 150,000 miles on the same gearbox oil and long life engine oil that the oil I drained had only normal atf wear and tear with no swarf.The oil was replaced and a new strainer.

I also changed the coolant to g12 ++ to reduce glychol and the box is perfect after re adaption and kick down reset its good for another 150,000 mile's as is the engine.

I have cured a few zf problems with the upgraded oil and flash update but also one box failed after the repair, further invest found the valve body again defective so replaced the valve body.
Zf make the best auto gearbox which power a good few platforms including the RS6 which produces massive torque and only the zf box can convert that power to the road wheels reliably and smoothly

As for the service interval policy of sealed for life then % failure tells us there calculation may be correct, however I would recommend every 80,000 miles as well as the torsional diff oil which again has no service action.

I change my diff oil every 40,000 miles using hypoid type oils

[andythechief]

well I must firstly say a big thank you to one and all. I always thought only the yanks looked into this sort of thing- we aren't doing badly this side of the pond! Lots of good experience.

a8 tech- that's an impressive procedure there! For the uninitiated, is that only for MY 2006 onwards i.e. my 52 plate car cannot be changed like this? Can this be completed using VAGCOM? And re coolant contamination- I'm guessing glycol only gets in when there is a cooling circuit linking the gearbox and coolant- is this always the case?

As for change/don't change gearbox oil- I guess this debate will keep going- excellent stuff! I for one go with change- lets see what happens! Update to follow.... will try to include some oily pics!

[audihooker]

AndyChief - you need to be careful with the gearbox oil for auto etc - had mine done by A for Audi in Glasgow, very helpful - give them a call and they will advise you.

happy motoring!

[Seeker_UK]

Wrong section. Sorry.