I'm booked in for a remap: Do I go for an Eco -or- Performance remap? PLEASE help me decide!

[toff]

Hi,

My 204bhp 3.0 TDI is booked-in for a remap at Motech Performance next week, I'm very excited!

The only problem is, I'm still undecided as to which remap to go for!

The Eco remap brings the power upto ~233 BHP and 500 torque. This is pretty much in-line with what Audi re-tuned the engine to in later version of the 3.0 TDI.

The Performance map brings power upto ~250 BHP and 525 torque.

So the difference is 17 BHP and 25 torque which doesn't sound much, but this is the reason for my poll:

Is it worth stretching the engine closer to it's limits and reducing it's life further by going for the performance remap?

I generally drive quite sedately but on the occasions I do want to overtake, I want more power (204 BHP is a conservative output for a turbo 3.0 V6!) If I go for the performance remap, I'm worried that the car will always want to GO!

According to Mike (of Motech) when driven sensibly, the performance map will give you nearly as good MPG returns to the Eco map.

Your vote, and any thoughts / opinions appreciated.

Kind regards,
Al.

[Young Kenny]

Hi Al,

I've had my A4 Avant 2.7Tdi re-mapped about 6 months ago by Angel Tuning. Stock power has (allegedly) increased by 40Bhp and 60lb/ft.

1) Fuel economy is astonishing if the fuel computer figures are to be believed (I'm too lazy to check tank to tank stuff). On a motorway run, 75mph on cruise, the trip comp. shows ave 48mpg. I have got over 55mpg ave if I do 65mph. So the re-map hasn't affected anything adversely here.

2) Performance has improved considerably, it wasn't exactly slow to begin with, but the re-map has made it far more responsive, with 3rd and 4th gears pulling like a train from just over 1200rpm. Overtaking now is typically done in a higher gear as 4th gear now pulls like 3rd used to etc, hence the good fuel economy.

My recommendation would be to go for the performance re-map, as you'll only be hankering after that if you don't do it. I'd be surprised if your fuel economy or engine life suffer as a result, particularly given your driving style as the engine won't be stressed very often.

Good luck!
YK

[toff]

Thanks kindly for the informative reply

I think you're right about hankering after more power!

Both of the remaps aren't supposed to chime-in until 50% load or 50% acceleration. My concern about the performance remap is that I'll have to take it easy all the time in urban driving to keep "under the map" (to avoid unnecessary acceleration, using more fuel etc).

Haha - I'm making it sound like its a Lambo which will spin round on the spot if you dab the throttle too hard!

Do you find it easy to drive your car "under the map" i.e. drive it sensibly when you don't need the extra power?

Al.

[Young Kenny]

Hi again Al,

to be honest, the power delivery is very smooth and linear, and you wouldn't know the car has been re-mapped. If anything, the re-map has made the car more driveable, as the extra torque allows the car to pull cleanly from just over 1000rpm! The power really starts to kick in at 2000rpm and it then revs cleanly until the limiter cuts in. I've not had the car on a dyno to compare before vs after power figures, but certainly the car pulls far more than std.

I hope this helps you?

[adamss24]

Hi,

My 204bhp 3.0 TDI is booked-in for a remap at Motech Performance next week, I'm very excited!

The only problem is, I'm still undecided as to which remap to go for!

The Eco remap brings the power upto ~233 BHP and 500 torque. This is pretty much in-line with what Audi re-tuned the engine to in later version of the 3.0 TDI.

The Performance map brings power upto ~250 BHP and 525 torque.

So the difference is 17 BHP and 25 torque which doesn't sound much, but this is the reason for my poll:

Is it worth stretching the engine closer to it's limits and reducing it's life further by going for the performance remap?

I generally drive quite sedately but on the occasions I do want to overtake, I want more power (204 BHP is a conservative output for a turbo 3.0 V6!) If I go for the performance remap, I'm worried that the car will always want to GO!

According to Mike (of Motech) when driven sensibly, the performance map will give you nearly as good MPG returns to the Eco map.

Your vote, and any thoughts / opinions appreciated.

Kind regards,
Al.

Hi, if you wanted fuel economy, why on earth went for the 3L ?!! As they say, there is no replacement for displacement...I think over 200Bhp is more than enough from the tdi engine as what matters is the torque and the 3L has it in bucket loads ! On paper, bhp sells cars and in the real world, torque wins races ! Drive the car sedately and it should be ok mpg wise, what difference makes + or - 2/3 Mpg ? I like to know that when i wanna boot me car, i have the power under me right feet.

[toff]

Hi, if you wanted fuel economy, why on earth went for the 3L ?!!

I'm not really after economy.. that just happens to be a side-effect of getting a remap! (regardless of which map I go for, Eco or Performance).

To re-phrase the question; do you think 525 torque is too much for the power-train (transmission etc) to handle - it's an automatic.
If it was your car, would you prefer to have torque limited to 500 to reduce the risk of damage to the drive-train or would you be happy with 525 torque on tap?

Cheers
Al.

[adamss24]

Hi, the auto transmissioin seems to hold much better than the manual will. The gearbox is an "older" (read STRONGER) ZF design with a torque converter. They are the only ones able to hold on soo much torque. Bmw's and Merc's use ZF gearboxes for ages and i am glad that audi carry-on using them as they were building g-boxes for more than 100 years ! The Multitronic one wich was soo problematic, was a ZF/Borg Wagner copy wich audi tried to "improve" on ! They were soo problematic that sometimes the cost of a remanufactured box will exceed the value of the car ! Remaps are already conservative and to be honest 25Nm of torque wont do absolutely nothing to the drive train...I was expecting a bit more than just 25Nm of torque, thats why i never liked "generic" remaps ! I would go for a rolling road remap or get in touch with propper tunners wich can do adjustments while on the rolling road to optimise the map- a.k.a. custom remap ! Its funny that many people understand Horsepower and cannot figure out what torque is. Horsepower is needed at speeds of 150mph + when batling with air/wind resistance ! What a decent tune/remap does is just improve on the feel of the car. For example, on fly-by-wire cars the tunner will program the throttle response that for 10% push on the pedel to actualy aplly 20% of throtle...That makes the car feel fast while keeping the torque fairly close to stock ! I do like a proper tuning chip/box as i can realy feel the power increase...

[toff]

Remaps are already conservative and to be honest 25Nm of torque wont do absolutely nothing to the drive train...I was expecting a bit more than just 25Nm of torque, thats why i never liked "generic" remaps ! I would go for a rolling road remap or get in touch with propper tunners wich can do adjustments while on the rolling road to optimise the map- a.k.a. custom remap!

Hi,

Cheers for the info on the ZF gearboxes - you clearly have some deep insight there!

The original torque figure for my 3.0 TDI is 450, so the performance remap to 525 torque is surely quite substantial? (The Eco remap increases torque to 500).

I agree with you about bhp being over-rated when it's torque that really matters. Unfortunately even the manufacturers use bhp as a measuring stick instead of torque!

Al.

[adamss24]

Yeah, but the problem is when the max. torque its made at wich rpm's. To be honest, i do like the torque to come as from the factory- as low as 1800rpm-but, many tunners will raise the threshold and it will come at 3000rpm+ to minimise strain on drivetrain. I would love to see a dino print for the 3L engine from your tunner !

[toff]

Yeah, but the problem is when the max. torque its made at wich rpm's. To be honest, i do like the torque to come as from the factory- as low as 1800rpm-but, many tunners will raise the threshold and it will come at 3000rpm+ to minimise strain on drivetrain. I would love to see a dino print for the 3L engine from your tunner !

Unfortunately it won't be going on the dyno.. just a road-test after the remap... but it would be interesting to see a dyno readout! I might get a before & after dyno plot if it doesn't cost too much!

I'd only really consider a rolling-road custom remap if I had modified setup (i.e. sports exhaust, FMIC, bigger turbo etc). For an unmodified car, I think a standard map will be fine.

Custom remaps must be quite a bit more expensive? The only reason I'm going for a remap is Motech Performance's special offer: Just £250!

Al.