Golf 1.4 TSI

[Monkeyshing]

how does it compare to the GTI? GTI worth the extra cash?

Let's talk about why I got a TSI GT over a GTi, I got my GT for £16K as a ex-Demo Car 3k Mileage 4 months old, Checked with GTi costing around £18K(out of my budget range) for 1 yr old at least, so I went for GT as its newer compare with the £18K 1 yr old GTi. Do I make sense here?

Anyway, if we're talking about brand new price then the differ in price's around £2k. I'd go for GTi because of its look, stiffer suspension and classified as a hot hatch compared with the TSI GT along with the higher trim level over GT.

However GTi drinks more fuel than GT, pal of mine does an average of 30MPG with his driving, both city n motorway.

With the TSI GT, U can drive it like a normal 1.4 to save fuel... but a normal 1.4 on a Golf's dead slow so I always ended up digging my accelerator more to kick d Supercharger in. Therefore the move off can be quite dead sometime, think VW done it delibrately.

Anyway cut it short, if u want more torque, more power, stiffer ride... then GTi

If u want to save fuel, into a fancy new twin-charged engine, like softer ride, something rare, cheaper road tax, go for TSI GT.

Oh I rev my TSI to 7K RPM (I like d sound and wish I got a dump valve) wen GTi's redline's at 6K RPM, if we talking about a general side by side race between TSI GT and GTi then it's not a much different. However GTi will win against TSI eventually due to its higher torque.

Open our eyes, GTi's EVERYWHERE! and I personally like GT's front bumper.

GTi or TSI GT? It's your choice...
So does GTi worth the extra cash? my opinions yes but Im still a student so Im tight on weekly petrol budget and personally still goin to stick with TSI GT.

Oh there's one thing we dunno yet, how realiable is the TSI?

[Teutonic_Tamer]

GTI worth the extra cash?

In a word - YES.

Remember, the residuals will be much more stronger on the GTI, than the GT. A number of reasons, the "GTI" is an iconic badge, which has a HUGE following, and demand will always be high, no matter how old they are. The Mk4 is a classic example - not particularly "good" for a GTI, yet still in high demand. The GTI uses proven, reliable technology, whereas the TSI, whilst the "newness" and "quirkyness" may induce interest at the moment - the technology is relatively unproven, and once the warranty expires, I would guess that an awful lot of peeps will actually shy away, making them much harder to sell, and denting residuals even harder.

In terms of running costs, the GT TSI is only one insurance group lower than the GTI - with a bit of prudence and shopping around, that increased group increase could be negated. VED/road tax - one band different (????) - twenty quid a year??? - pales into insignificance! Fuel consumption - my wife can get 38mpg from the GTI - compared to the TSI, in real world side-by-side comparisons, I personally doubt there would be more than 5mpg difference!!

If your budget really is that tight, then maybe both the GT and the GTI should be ruled out!

Just my HO, mine dew!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Let's talk about why I got a TSI GT over a GTi, I got my GT for £16K as a ex-Demo Car 3k Mileage 4 months old, Checked with GTi costing around £18K(out of my budget range) for 1 yr old at least, so I went for GT as its newer compare with the £18K 1 yr old GTi. Do I make sense here?

No, not really - 9 months is neither here nor there! "Ex-demo" indicates to me: been thrashed, and thrashed harder and harder, to see if it can match the GTI on performance. People will be comparing the GT and the GTI, and no doubt the sales staff will tell you there is "little difference in real world performance". Nobody ever tests fuel economy on demos/road tests, they read the sales brochures for that. Demos/road tests are always (for performance cars) about getting max performance, max handling, max braking, etc, etc - without giving a damn about who buys the car at the end of the demo term!

Anyway, if we're talking about brand new price then the differ in price's around £2k. I'd go for GTi because of its look, stiffer suspension and classified as a hot hatch compared with the TSI GT along with the higher trim level over GT.

But you forgot to consider the much greater residuals the GTI will enjoy over the GT!

However GTi drinks more fuel than GT, pal of mine does an average of 30MPG with his driving, both city n motorway.

Like I said in the above post, in "real world, side-by-side" useage, the economy between the two would be negligable!

With the TSI GT, U can drive it like a normal 1.4 to save fuel... but a normal 1.4 on a Golf's dead slow so I always ended up digging my accelerator more to kick d Supercharger in. Therefore the move off can be quite dead sometime, think VW done it delibrately.

So really, it was a pointless purchase, becuse the performance of the "traditional 1.4" is inadequate for your personal use. You end up booting it, to try and overcome its' deficiencies, and then your fuel economy will suffer more than the GTI, because you are having to compensate for the lack of low down torque, and seek the power higher up the rev-range!

Oh, BTW, the supercharger operates from tickover, and the turbo operates at the higher rev-ranges!

Anyway cut it short, if u want more torque, more power, stiffer ride... then GTi

Quite. The GTI provides a better "all round" completed package over the GT.

If u want to save fuel,

I think the jury is still out on that one, for real world useage!

into a fancy new twin-charged engine, like softer ride, something rare, cheaper road tax, go for TSI GT.

Won't contest that at all, although the road tax issue is negligable.

Oh I rev my TSI to 7K RPM (I like d sound and wish I got a dump valve) wen GTi's redline's at 6K RPM,

A classic example of peeps not understanding the effects of revs and fuel economy. Higher revs equals more fuel required. If the GT TSI needs 2,000 rpm more than the GTI 2.0T FSI to make the same power, it will use more fuel!

if we talking about a general side by side race between TSI GT and GTi then it's not a much different.

Ohh, I really doubt that. If you genuinely meant race - as in race on a closed circuit, or drag strip, the GTI would win hands down comfortably. If you were actually referring to normal highway use, then maybe. If you were stuck in the middle of London/Birmingham/any major city - then it wouldn't matter if you had a Nissan Micra or a Bugatti Veyron, you would make exactly the same progress (appart from the fact that the Veyron would be let out of more junctions etc )

However GTi will win against TSI eventually due to its higher torque.

And power, and handling, and braking!

Open our eyes, GTi's EVERYWHERE!

Doesn't that just confirm exactly how good the GTIs are, especially when compared to the cheaper Ford "here come the chavs" Asbo, or the Astra "here comes the hedge" VXR!

and I personally like GT's front bumper.

Personal preference based on aesthetics - nothing wrong with that at all!

GTi or TSI GT? It's your choice...
So does GTi worth the extra cash? my opinions yes but Im still a student so Im tight on weekly petrol budget and personally still goin to stick with TSI GT.

Perhaps a better choice would have been the GT TDI then? There would be no contest with fuel economy

Oh there's one thing we dunno yet, how realiable is the TSI?

Quite. I can't see VW making a duffer, unreliable motor, but I can see future repairs and maintenace to be a prob, and many independents will shy away!

[Monkeyshing]

Nice analysis on my "half asleep" post last night.
I had a quick look over your post and yes I agreed with your point of view.

To be honest, I would go for GTi myself coz I wanted a MK5 GTI since it hit d road but I got my own reason. I had pushed myself to the limit with the budget and my pal got a GTi (with a few of add-on pack, ending with £22k ish) so I know he wont be happy if I get the same car. The TSI GT also just happened to be there on sale for £16K (Took about a week to decided to buy it) and I admit it was the "technology of twin-charged engine" that attracted me the most,otherwise I would be still driving my Corsa SRi with the poor fuel comsumption while saving up some cash for the next car that will attract me. However I really had enough of the Chav's/Ned's Corsa as it didn't reflex my personality at all (Had it for more than 2yrs). I bought this car coz I got my license taking off a few years back and trying to rebuild my insurance no claim bonus by driving a car with insurance under group 10. I previously own a Polo 9n Sport with my twin brother who passed away a few years bak. Our dream was to turbo the 1.4, such n such. I Coilover-ed the polo, exhaust, wheels and stuff to pay the memoriable moment to my brother. I didn't get to drive the car coz of the insurance law (under age of 25 arent insure on mod car) so my parents drive it untill that week the car just cudn't survive anymore. So the TSI 1.4's similar to our dream on turboling a 1.4 (but turbo lag r goin to b huge) but this TSI solved the lag with supercharger which interested me.

Anyway that's my story for goin TSI GT.

Talkin about Fuel Comsuption, yes Diesel should be here. My parents drive a Polo TDI 130bhp just now (I get to drive aswell) and I still prefer the sound of petrol engine for some reason. The TDI still a good drive and I could hit 60MPG from a long distance driving.

[Monkeyshing]

But you forgot to consider the much greater residuals the GTI will enjoy over the GT!

YUP I KNOW!

Like I said in the above post, in "real world, side-by-side" useage, the economy between the two would be negligable!

TRUE

So really, it was a pointless purchase, becuse the performance of the "traditional 1.4" is inadequate for your personal use. You end up booting it, to try and overcome its' deficiencies, and then your fuel economy will suffer more than the GTI, because you are having to compensate for the lack of low down torque, and seek the power higher up the rev-range!

It's only apply to me temporary because I'm just having fun with the twin-charge, normally I drive normal. I even tried to drive nice n gentle with my previous Corsa 1.8 SRi ,does it not still no matter how little it drink due to the size of engine when u drive nice n gentle? Maybe u got more experience on this.

Oh, BTW, the supercharger operates from tickover, and the turbo operates at the higher rev-ranges!

I know

Quite. The GTI provides a better "all round" completed package over the GT.

Yes!

I think the jury is still out on that one, for real world useage!

haha ok!

Won't contest that at all, although the road tax issue is negligable.

And wot's the new CO2 thing? I haven't put my head on it yet. Is Euro trying to lowering the average of the CO2 level from motor vechile?

A classic example of peeps not understanding the effects of revs and fuel economy. Higher revs equals more fuel required. If the GT TSI needs 2,000 rpm more than the GTI 2.0T FSI to make the same power, it will use more fuel!

I know that, but how offen do we really going to punch the rev to the redline?

Ohh, I really doubt that. If you genuinely meant race - as in race on a closed circuit, or drag strip, the GTI would win hands down comfortably. If you were actually referring to normal highway use, then maybe. If you were stuck in the middle of London/Birmingham/any major city - then it wouldn't matter if you had a Nissan Micra or a Bugatti Veyron, you would make exactly the same progress (appart from the fact that the Veyron would be let out of more junctions etc )

Yeah, I was talkin about in a open free road or highway not in City/Urban.

And power, and handling, and braking!

True True n True

Doesn't that just confirm exactly how good the GTIs are, especially when compared to the cheaper Ford "here come the chavs" Asbo, or the Astra "here comes the hedge" VXR!

Hahah... yes yes yes... those cars r just fast n fast and for younger ppls who want to drive a fast car but cheap in price?

Perhaps a better choice would have been the GT TDI then? There would be no contest with fuel economy

Not many ppls like diesel, is it?

Quite. I can't see VW making a duffer, unreliable motor, but I can see future repairs and maintenace to be a prob, and many independents will shy away!

Yeah so I'll c how my TSI GT goes, it's a bit of gamble but please bless me!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Nice analysis on my "half asleep" post last night.

OK, didn't realise what time you made that post - burning the midnight oil eh?

I had a quick look over your post and yes I agreed with your point of view.

Thanks.

To be honest, I would go for GTi myself coz I wanted a MK5 GTI since it hit d road but I got my own reason. I had pushed myself to the limit with the budget and my pal got a GTi (with a few of add-on pack, ending with £22k ish) so I know he wont be happy if I get the same car. The TSI GT also just happened to be there on sale for £16K (Took about a week to decided to buy it) and I admit it was the "technology of twin-charged engine" that attracted me the most,otherwise I would be still driving my Corsa SRi with the poor fuel comsumption while saving up some cash for the next car that will attract me. However I really had enough of the Chav's/Ned's Corsa as it didn't reflex my personality at all (Had it for more than 2yrs). I bought this car coz I got my license taking off a few years back and trying to rebuild my insurance no claim bonus by driving a car with insurance under group 10. I previously own a Polo 9n Sport with my twin brother who passed away a few years bak. Our dream was to turbo the 1.4, such n such. I Coilover-ed the polo, exhaust, wheels and stuff to pay the memoriable moment to my brother. I didn't get to drive the car coz of the insurance law (under age of 25 arent insure on mod car) so my parents drive it untill that week the car just cudn't survive anymore. So the TSI 1.4's similar to our dream on turboling a 1.4 (but turbo lag r goin to b huge) but this TSI solved the lag with supercharger which interested me.

Anyway that's my story for goin TSI GT.

Won't argue at all with that.

Talkin about Fuel Comsuption, yes Diesel should be here. My parents drive a Polo TDI 130bhp just now (I get to drive aswell) and I still prefer the sound of petrol engine for some reason. The TDI still a good drive and I could hit 60MPG from a long distance driving.

I'm with you all the way on the sound of petrol vs diesel. There really is nothing at all to get excited about - when something sounds the same as a London black cab

[Teutonic_Tamer]

It's only apply to me temporary because I'm just having fun with the twin-charge, normally I drive normal. I even tried to drive nice n gentle with my previous Corsa 1.8 SRi ,does it not still no matter how little it drink due to the size of engine when u drive nice n gentle? Maybe u got more experience on this.

As a general "rule of thumb", and only up to relatively modest speeds, of upto 50mph - a smaller capacity engine will use less fuel than a larger capacity engine. However, over 50mph, wind resistance really makes a huge difference, and so larger displacement engines could use higher gearing and lower engine speeds, relying on the increased torque, whereas a smaller engine developing less torque would need a lower gear, higher engine revs - to do the same equivalent "work". That is one of the reasons that a car cruising at sustained high speeds will use a lot more fuel, and the difference between small and large capacity engines will be hugely negated.

And wot's the new CO2 thing? I haven't put my head on it yet. Is Euro trying to lowering the average of the CO2 level from motor vechile?

The CO figures are all to do with yet another way of increasing taxation.

I know that, but how offen do we really going to punch the rev to the redline?

Oh, I didn't state the redline. Let me try and give a clearer example. The GTI engine at say 2,500 rpm would produce "X" amount of power. The TSI engine at the same revs of 2,500 would produce a power figure of "Y" less than "X". For the TSI to achieve the exact same power of "X", it would probably need to rev up to, say 4,500 rpm. As the GTI, and the GT TSI have a kerb weight roughly identical, to move the GT TSI at the same rate as the GTI, you need to rev it harder and higher up the rev range.

Yeah, I was talkin about in a open free road or highway not in City/Urban.

OK - not that one should be "racing" on the Queens highways

Yeah so I'll c how my TSI GT goes, it's a bit of gamble but please bless me!

I don't think anyone was knocking you with your choice. I already mentioned in an earlier post the TSI was a good engine. I think the "concern" arises if you try to compare the GTI and the TSI directly. The TSI / GT combo should be really "pidgeon-holed" into a completely separate class to the GTI (and R32), and then, I'm sure it will get the much better recognition it actually deserves!

[bora(ing) nick]

my my my....

What have i started.....

I'm glad my original post made the start of a good (informative) topic/thread.

Monkeyshing.. V. sorry to here about your Bro', i (and my 3 bro's and 2 sis's) lost our mother in November 05, and still not really over it.

I know what your saying about studentism. i've been an apprentice for the last 4 years stuggling on a pittance.. lol.

In my original post....i wasn't asking for a direct comparison between the TSI GT and the GTI, as that question answers itself. I was however asking weather the TSI GT was worthy of purchasing. It's been well looked after, only a year old (from memory???), and wondered what peoples general take on the car was.

Que TT for the in depth analysis...lol.

ps thank you all for your comments so far....

[Teutonic_Tamer]

my my my....

What have i started.....

LOL

I'm glad my original post made the start of a good (informative) topic/thread.

'Tis the general idea, to get the creative juices flowing

Monkeyshing.. V. sorry to here about your Bro', i (and my 3 bro's and 2 sis's) lost our mother in November 05, and still not really over it.

I'm quite sure the appropriate sentiments are echoed by all.

In my original post....i wasn't asking for a direct comparison between the TSI GT and the GTI, as that question answers itself.

Ahh . . . that wasn't really made clear, hence the discussion generated the comparisons between the two. No worries.

I was however asking weather the TSI GT was worthy of purchasing. It's been well looked after, only a year old (from memory???), and wondered what peoples general take on the car was.

Absolutely worth buying. The initial hit in depreciation has gone, you sort of know the general history and useage, and - providing you banish all thoughts that it "very nearly is a GTI", and take the car for what it actually is (and it suits all of your needs) - then I'm sure you will be very happy with it.

Que TT for the in depth analysis...lol.

Ta

ps thank you all for your comments so far....

Your welcome.

[Monkeyshing]

Oh yeh.. One thing I don't understand, The TSI GT won't let me rev the engine (while the car's at stationary) more than 4000 RPM.

Anyone know why?