Help with tyres

[Teutonic_Tamer]

well i have no idea what your doing to get just 8k miles out of a full set of tyres!! i cover 8k miles in 2 months ok 90% motorway but i could not afford £500.00 for a set of dunlops every two months let alone £700.00 for a set of michelins. if these michelins are so long lasting why again are you getting just 8k miles ?

Have a look at post #30 https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/s...ead.php?t=4321 . Don't forget, I said "fronts" on the GTI. On front wheel drive cars, I get between 8-10k on the fronts, and on the rears, probably about 30-40k. I say probably, because when I get new boots (except for the S4 quattro), I replace the worn out fronts, keep them on the front axle for 500 miles or so - to make sure they have been balanced properly and to "scrub" them in. I then swap em front to rear.

Regarding the pricing - I don't know where you got your figures from, but if you spend ½day on the phone to all your local tyre dealers, haggling down the price, in my experience, you can get Michelins down to about £15 a corner more than any other premium brand - so £60 all round is waaaaaayyyyy different to your £200 - about the cost of a tank of V-Power. Run on 95RON unleaded for a month, and you get your money back, and you get much better boots than Dunlop.

From my recollection of last years formula 1 michelin where not that great a tyre compared to the bridgestones!!

F1 isn't the greatest comparator for road tyres - they run on 13" rims, with huge sidewalls, and only 20psi. Modern cars, even basic family cars now run on 15" rims with 60% profile. Sporty, moderate performance cars now run on 16" or 17", and sometimes even 18" rims - with profiles going down to 40%. So dry weather slick F1 boots are not really a good indicator. Full wets are, mind you, as the rubber compound and tread pattern play a major role, just like in conventional road tyres. Oh, BTW, Michelin absolutey kick a$$ in Hungary and MonteCarlo, where they would be closest to normal road driving (for F1 anyway).

Rallying, Touring Cars, or the LeMans 24hrs are probably the closest that a competition tyre comes to normal road tyres. Rally tyres have to be road legal actually! With the LeMans 24hr, Michelin has consistantly wiped the slate over other tyre manufacturers. In the BTCC, a controled tyre is used and Dunlop is the supplier - just look at the repeated failures they get on circuits like Thruxton - shocking IMHO! In WRC, again Michelin proved their point, although they have always had very stiff competition from Pirelli. They withdrew from officially supplying WRC under their main Michelin brand, and switched to supplying under another of their brands, BFGoodrich.

With 2 wheels, MotoGP has not had a tyre world champion other than Michelin for decades - Dunlop tried and got absolutely nowhere, Bridgestone are in it now, and win the odd race, but usually when either Vale or Nicky, or the other main Mich runners fall off. In World Superbikes (the premier production based category), Michelin won every single world title, until they were banned a couple of years back, and the championship went to one-make controled tyres - Pirelli, and the riders hated them, although they are getting better. In the British Superbikes, it is a closer-run thing, between the two main players of Michelin and Dunlop. I could go on and on, but basically - you get the message, doncha .

As for firestone and continental i wouldent use them on a banger let alone a skoda!!

Firestone arn't too bad on the "energy" type of tyres, but don't cut it in high performance, because the leave that to Bridgestone, as Firestone are actually owned by Bridgestone. Continental tyres are actually very good - not the best, but up there. They are actually approved by the German TuV testing standards.

And finally skodas are vw/ audis in sheeps clothing thats why the law use them

Huh - where did that come from?? OK, OK - Skoda may have some access to the same parts bins as VW, Audi, Seat, Lamborghini, Bentley and Bugatti, but they don't get the best toys, are not as well finished as Audi by a country mile, the styling is - err - different (what do you prefer the looks of: the Skoda Roomster, or the Golf Plus?). The reason the law use then - they are cheap.

BUT you are right that the only bit between the car and the black stuff is the rubber on your rims and i would like to say that i have never had a blowout ,delamination, or uneven tyre wear on any of the dunlop sp01 tyres that have been on my car

Yes, yes - but it is not just about blowouts or general defects - it is the way the tyre performs throughout its' entire (ohh - thats' awful ) life on the car. Wet weather performance is absolutely crucial, and until you experience just how good Michelin are over their competators, you will wonder why you ever used anything else. I have the OEM Dunlop SportMaxx on the GTI at the moment, and they really are awful. They are worse than Continental, Yokohama and Bridgestone, and it goes without saying, absolutely a different league altogether than Michelin. They are so $hite, dangerous actually, that I am actually trying hard to wear them out, so I can put some decent boots on them. I complained to the supplying dealer, who confirmed they had repeated complaints about them, when compared to the same spec car with either Contis or Michelins. VW have stopped supplying cars with the SportMaxx, although I saw a new Eos in the showroom with Dunlop Sport SP01 - a change from directional to asymmetric tread pattern!

If the price of Michelins really is too much, run your motor on 95RON unleaded, instead of 98 SuperPlus, or fill up with supermarket diesel for a month or so. Tyres should be the number one priority on your car, and should never be skimped on!

[Teutonic_Tamer]

I could not agree more! Tyres are so important in modern motoring especially given the speeds modern cars travel at.

It is more to do with the actual performance, from the much better brakes, and more powerful engines. And the incresed weight also plays a crucial role. A 1990s family hatchback (Golf/Astra/Escort) weighed about 800kgs, todays equivalents are around 1300kgs, that is half a tonne more for the tyres to cope with.

Too many people disregard them as a simple wear and tear item that you change to keep a valid MOT on the car.

I know, and it is so shocking that the law seem to be incapable of any kind of efficient enforcement.

Bad and worn tyres are the causes of many accidents and road injuries and deaths.

Yup, but the true figures are fudged or masked to show somthing comletely different.

We just dont hear about it cos 'speed' is the thing the power that be prefer to blame!

Don't get me started on that one!!!!!!

Why do you think most police forces change theirs at 3mm? (or was it 4mm)

Eggzakerley!

All I know is that at 4mm my goodyears dont grip anywhere near as well as they do with 8mm on.

That is down to the directional tread pattern - it just can't cope with water dispersion like assymetric tyres can. Also, many directional patterns actually close-up, or block off certain grooves as they wear (which causes poor wet performance)!

[Dave Avant]

And it seems daft that on bikes where there is less contact rubber, the min tread depth is 1.5mm and scooters/mopeds don't have a minimum depth, so all the 16 year olds can tear around on bald tyres!!

Don't forget tread depth doesn't give more grip, it just there to disperse water on the road. Done a trackday with bald tyres as they had worn out and when it rained the grip didn't lessen, infact the cars that spun off had full tread!!

[Dave Avant]

All I know is that at 4mm my goodyears dont grip anywhere near as well as they do with 8mm on.

Thats because tyres can have slightly different compounds through the tread as they wear off, you'll probably notice the tyre seems to wear less towards the end as the compound tends to be harder wearing and giving less grip.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

And it seems daft that on bikes where there is less contact rubber, the min tread depth is 1.5mm and scooters/mopeds don't have a minimum depth, so all the 16 year olds can tear around on bald tyres!!

That just helps with the Darwinian theory, correcting any gene pool abnormalities http://www.darwinawards.com/

Don't forget tread depth doesn't give more grip, it just there to disperse water on the road.

Yup, too right - but there is also the issue of law!

Done a trackday with bald tyres as they had worn out and when it rained the grip didn't lessen, infact the cars that spun off had full tread!!

Muppetry may have also played its part

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Thats because tyres can have slightly different compounds through the tread as they wear off, you'll probably notice the tyre seems to wear less towards the end as the compound tends to be harder wearing and giving less grip.

Hmmm - I don't think Goodyear use any kind of dual or multi-compound in the tread - certainly not in directionals.

Anyhow, different compounds, where used, are not different through the tread depth, they differ along the width. That is why assymetric tyres are soooooo much better, because they can have harder compounds on the outer edge, and softer compounds on the inner edge, just like the Michelin Energy, Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2, and Michelin Pilot Sport PS2.

Rgds

[Dave Avant]

Hmmm - I don't think Goodyear use any kind of dual or multi-compound in the tread - certainly not in directionals.

Anyhow, different compounds, where used, are not different through the tread depth, they differ along the width. That is why assymetric tyres are soooooo much better, because they can have harder compounds on the outer edge, and softer compounds on the inner edge, just like the Michelin Energy, Michelin Pilot Exalto PE2, and Michelin Pilot Sport PS2.

Rgds

Not sure on the goodyear, but on the Michie Pilots sport, had them on the Gf's MGF and they were low on tread and were slippy even in the dry. She had it for a couple of years and we never had replace the tyres, but she does only do about 5K miles a years. Then she got a BMW 2.8 Z3 with the same tyres which were low again, again this liked to go sideways and make full use of the traction control. Now it has F1s and grip is much improved. I'd heard about the compound changes through the tyre life and the experiences seem to ring true.

Just put some OE fit Bridgestone 040s on the front of A4 after a puncture, but in this weather I could do with Quattro traction!! Definately not bike weather!! Sunday was good for bikes though, if a little cold over the Snake Pass!!

[S2AVANT]

Just put some OE fit Bridgestone 040s on the front of A4 after a puncture, but in this weather I could do with Quattro traction!! Definately not bike weather!! Sunday was good for bikes though, if a little cold over the Snake Pass!!

Snake eh?
I prefer to go out on the Snake and back on the Woodhead.

[Dave Avant]

Snake eh?
I prefer to go out on the Snake and back on the Woodhead.

Yeah, its good so long as you don't get someone who prefers to look at the peat rather than drive!! I used go over quite frequently, not been over for a while so went on Sunday. I see the stretch past the reservoir is now a 50 limit!! The reser was dead still, gave a perfect reflection - good for a foto, but couldn't be bothered stopping.

[Teutonic_Tamer]

Not sure on the goodyear, but on the Michie Pilots sport, had them on the Gf's MGF and they were low on tread and were slippy even in the dry.

Must be all those "hair products" contaminating the tyres

She had it for a couple of years and we never had replace the tyres, but she does only do about 5K miles a years.

So 10k miles on a relatively lightweight car would be more than reasonable.

Then she got a BMW 2.8 Z3 with the same tyres which were low again, again this liked to go sideways and make full use of the traction control.

See, I told you, all that hair gel and conditioners getting in the way . Seriously though, what BM doesn't get its tail out, only to held by the electronics?

I'd heard about the compound changes through the tyre life and the experiences seem to ring true.

What you are probably thinking is the natural "aging" of the rubber, caused by the heat-up and cool-down. The actual rubber is the same compound from new to worn, it just goes through a chemical reaction, in the same way that water and steel change chemically!

Just put some OE fit Bridgestone 040s on the front of A4 after a puncture, but in this weather I could do with Quattro traction!!

Hmmm, I really don't like RE040s - utterly pants in the wet and in cold temps! Why not the S03s - much better boots?

Definately not bike weather!! Sunday was good for bikes though, if a little cold over the Snake Pass!!

This kinda weather actually hones your riding skills, those who don't, well Darwin again!