Buy an SEL 170 DSG ?

[mrmitch]

Had a test drive in an SEL 170 DSG Estate yesterday (6 months old, 15k miles), and have joined the forum to see if it is going to be a sensible buy.
Never had an auto before but DSG seems to work brilliantly - slight hesitation on pick-up from start but otherwise seamless. This car seamed pretty tight, no rattles, and in A1 condition. I'm very tempted.
Have run a 2.0TDi SE manual estate as a company car for 6 months/8k miles and was generally happy - several visits to dealer to reset emissions warning in first 1000 miles but cured by a replacement glow-plug control module. Found VW Heathrow very helpful.
On paper, the 170SEL DSG is exactly what I am looking for, good size estate, good performance, reasonable economy and CO2. But what about reliability?
I want to run the car for at least 3 years and expect to do 20k business miles per year.

The SEL would be a private purchase and have found so many owners complaining of expensive sounding problems on various websites/forums I have almost been put off.

My main concerns are -
Long term reliability of DSG - it seems great but will it last?
Fuel pump/ high oil consumption problems - potential for wrecked engine.
Front suspension creaks - is this only on Sport spec cars or all cars?

If you have problems with the above - do they get sorted under warranty or do they end up costing big money? Should I plan to sell before 3 yrs/60k?

Loads of questions - but any feedback would be most welcome.

[Quatrelle]

Hi mrmitch - I think you'll find all the answers to your questions if you have a trawl through the relevant threads here.

I think you are justified in being concerned after reading various forums, but these obviously tend to attract people with problems. I doubt if many happy owners bother to find a forum to say specifically that they are happy - having said that, I joined this forum to exchange views and to keep informed about my Passat and those of others, and some of us are happy with our cars!

[mrmitch]

Thanks for your reply Quatrelle. Have now spent time looking at all makes and models on forum using TDi170 (and 140).
Take your point about forum users generally need to solve problems, but I get the impression that most seem to like their cars and simply want them to work. VW dealers sound like they are very hit and miss, mostly miss.

Still seems to me that Passat has more TDi140/170 fuel pump problems than same engine in other VAG models such as Golf/A4 - surely they are all built to the same spec with the same components (in the same engine plant) so why should this be?

Loads of other useful stuff from all you regulars on the forum - have finally worked out that CR on the 2008 VW Passat price List = Common Rail explaining why the CO2 is reduced on the TDi140 Highline compared to the few remaining non-CR SE versions. 2008 model TDi170 CO2 numbers are slightly down compared to 2007; could this mean it is CR too? Every bit helps with the new VED rates starting April 2009.

Am still trying to convince myself to take the plunge on the SEL Wagon- will let you know if and when I do. Would still like to hear from any SEL170 DSG users with good or bad things to say.

We also have a Seat Ibiza so will continue to use the forum for that - Its a 1.2 SX (04-plate, 21k miles) - great little engine and roadholding, but suspension very harsh and creeky over speed bumps (however slow you go). Where have I heard that before?

Keep up the good work

[james_tiger_woo]

Quick question - why the SEL and not the sport?

All the problems I've had with my Passat haven't stopped me loving it - And with the new Grill, it looks like an SEL (that's not why I did it mind, I just like shiny things...)

[mrmitch]

Quick question, long answer!
Having experienced the ride and road-holding of the SE TDi140 I am happy with the comfort compomise - I admit I have not driven a Sport but I reckon the lower profile tyres and lowered (shorter-travel?) suspension will be just too much. I know so many people who have ordered Audi's with Sportline bigger wheels and lowered suspension ('cos they look nice) that have wished they hadnt bothered as the ride is too harsh for everyday driving.
Also, when it comes to replacing tyres, 205/55 16's are alot cheaper than 235/45 17's when you are paying the bill yourself. 55's should be quieter too - I had Dunlop Sports on my SE and they were acceptable.

Also, am buying 6-12 months old and my spec must include Cruise and RCD500 (which I had on the SE as an option). Very few Sports have Cruise although I understand it can be dealer retro-fitted. SEL has both as standard plus other creature comforts such as auto lights and wipers, heated seats etc.


My other nice to have would be multi-function wheel as the radio volume knob is on the left (for LHD probably) and is a long reach if you are having to keep turing things up and down. (Sounds incredibly lazy that, but it is a real stretch and becomes a pain). My cheapy Astra has audio controls on the wheel so it seems very mean of VW not to even put it on the SEL as standard. Flappy paddles would be nice for the DSG but you hardly ever see these. Just something else to go wrong possibly. Has there been any Forum feedback on whether they are worth it? I guess the wiring loom should be there already so perhaps I could get a dealer-fitted MFW with paddles but would probably cost £500+ so not worth it.

Why not stick to a TDi140SE you might ask, put up with the RCD300 and save a few quid - well, having baled-out of the company car scheme and run an Astra on the cheap for 12 months (a surprisingly good little car, 1.6 petrol) I want a proper estate car again. For the first time ever I fancy an auto (getting old) and there is hardly any penalty in mpg for the 170 over the 140. So before we get taxed out of existance I thought - in for a penny, in for a pound - go for the full monty 170 SEL DSG and enjoy driving for a couple of years, at least until the warranty runs out! By then, we could all be driving Blue Motion Polos!

Sorry, I am rambling-on, but you did ask.

[fogster]

Quick question, long answer!
Having experienced the ride and road-holding of the SE TDi140 I am happy with the comfort compomise - I admit I have not driven a Sport but I reckon the lower profile tyres and lowered (shorter-travel?) suspension will be just too much. I know so many people who have ordered Audi's with Sportline bigger wheels and lowered suspension ('cos they look nice) that have wished they hadnt bothered as the ride is too harsh for everyday driving.
Also, when it comes to replacing tyres, 205/55 16's are alot cheaper than 235/45 17's when you are paying the bill yourself. 55's should be quieter too - I had Dunlop Sports on my SE and they were acceptable.

Also, am buying 6-12 months old and my spec must include Cruise and RCD500 (which I had on the SE as an option). Very few Sports have Cruise although I understand it can be dealer retro-fitted. SEL has both as standard plus other creature comforts such as auto lights and wipers, heated seats etc.


My other nice to have would be multi-function wheel as the radio volume knob is on the left (for LHD probably) and is a long reach if you are having to keep turing things up and down. (Sounds incredibly lazy that, but it is a real stretch and becomes a pain). My cheapy Astra has audio controls on the wheel so it seems very mean of VW not to even put it on the SEL as standard. Flappy paddles would be nice for the DSG but you hardly ever see these. Just something else to go wrong possibly. Has there been any Forum feedback on whether they are worth it? I guess the wiring loom should be there already so perhaps I could get a dealer-fitted MFW with paddles but would probably cost £500+ so not worth it.

Why not stick to a TDi140SE you might ask, put up with the RCD300 and save a few quid - well, having baled-out of the company car scheme and run an Astra on the cheap for 12 months (a surprisingly good little car, 1.6 petrol) I want a proper estate car again. For the first time ever I fancy an auto (getting old) and there is hardly any penalty in mpg for the 170 over the 140. So before we get taxed out of existance I thought - in for a penny, in for a pound - go for the full monty 170 SEL DSG and enjoy driving for a couple of years, at least until the warranty runs out! By then, we could all be driving Blue Motion Polos!

Sorry, I am rambling-on, but you did ask.

Why not look at the new highline, it seems to tick most of your boxes and has leather and heated seats, might be a cheap as a used SEL ???

[mrmitch]

Thanks Fogster, its a very good suggestion - could possibly get a new 140TDI DSG Highline with a discount for the same money as a 6-12 month old standard-spec SEL 170 DSG with 10-15k on the clock.

Plus side -
3 full years of warranty, 140 CR engine has better economy (if you believe the official figures) and lower CO2 emissions (less road tax), can chose the colour and exact spec, multi-func wheel as standard,

Down side -
Would have 'comfort' seats instead of more comfortable 'Sports' seats; Would want RCD500 audio option at least; has unneccesary larger 235/45 17 wheels/ tyres (but without lower sports suspension); would miss-out on other SEL standard kit like climate control, auto lights and wipers unless bought as options, probably on factory order 10-12 weeks wait.

In the end the lure of the 170 may still be too much - the one I test drove had noticably more performance than the 140 (which is not slow), and it will be rarer and possibly retain its value better.
On paper I would chose the SEL but however good it is to drive I want hassle-free reliability (don't we all) for business driving 15-20k miles per year. If only the B6 had the more bulletproof reputation of the B5 then I would probably have done the deal by now.

Decisions, Decisions.

[Dook]

I have a Sport 170 DSG and am really happy with it (despite the usual intermittent dashbox squeeks!!) the DSG is great, and is soooooooo much better in traffic jams on my daily commute on the A1(M). Economy is OK - about 40-42 on commute when I take is easy, 37 when I don't, and 53 on a jaunt up to Liverpool and back (360 miles) sticking to 60mph on the motorways - fuel prices :-O

I specced Cruise, heated seats, heated windscreen, I have auto lights, auto hold, auto mirror dim, auto wipers. Ride is really quite comfortable, but still holds the road pretty well for a big car. Mind you, front tyres were pretty much shot at 13k miles! and I have used 2 litres of oil in the same distance.

[mrmitch]

Heated screen sounds like a great way to speed up cold morning starts and to prevent screen being scratched when scrapping ice. I drove a Mondeo once a while back with this feature but the fine heating elements tended to refract light from on-coming headlamps at night - do you get any 'blurring' of vision at night or any other downsides?

[Dook]

I got one of the winter packs on mine - heated screen, and heated seats etc. I had the heated screen on one of my old Mondeo's as well, and have missed it ever since. You do get a bit of reflection, but mostly off bright sunlight rather than headlamps in the dark. You soon get used to it, and most of the time you don't even notice it. I also got Cruise as a factory fit option rather than dealer add on, and the front and rear parking sensors are really well worth the money...