Starting issues with VW Golf 1.6 FSI

[Mikedelta]

cars stopped without any fault codes, the RAC man tried to flash but came up with nothing, and tried reset, still nothing, car stopped whilst running fine. Got towed home.

After checking various componets, including checking if the cat had not got blocked etc, and it starts when I spray Engine starting spray at the throtle body, fires up fie as long as the spray is held on, but stops when we take the starting spray away.

so this means that spark and plugs are fine, and incuding rules out immobiliser issues as that would also stop spark i believe.

So now checked fuel, by disconnecting the hose, and petrol jets out when ignition is turned on, can hear the pump prime, and whilst cranking the pump comes on, so no fuel issues at all.

This leaves Injectors, I belive though i might be wrong, as I am not the owner, a friend owns the car, i am a Vauxhall Calibra man myself!

These are located in such a ******* place that I cannot get to them easily, and so i can't even place my test gear to see if the injectors are firing, plus I do not have a Haynes manual for his car to see what colour wiring I can tap to at a more convemient place to see for injector pulses and a Positive injector supply,

I believe that there may be a relay for injector supply, but where is it located i don't know? and plus there may be two fuses 5A feeding the +12v supply upon ignition being turned on two seperate fuses each supplying a pair of injectors.

You may help me with wiring colours for each injector, I managed to tap into one cable (Brown/white) and placed my test LED that flashed light pulses when cranking the engine, there is a whole bunch of cables going from the main loom near the front right of the engine which splits by means of a T junction, some going to the top for ignition coils and spark plugs (direct ignition) and the rest of the loom where I taped into a brown/white cable appears to go towards the injector rail underneath the air planium and dissapear and hence why it is so hard to see what colors go where and perhaps to some other sensors behind on the block, I seemed to have got a positive going short sharp pulses but I will double check this as I was expecting Negative pulses for injectors and a steady positive to all 4 injectors, as I believe the injector pulses should be Negative going .

I am going to conduct a few more tappings into cables, I made a special gadget just to do this without causing wire insulation to be stripped back, I made a cotraption that will allow me to p r i c k each wire with a very small needle and this should cause minimum insulation damage to read what voltages and signals are being seen on these loom of wires.

Please help if you can, help with a diagram or wiring colour for injector wiring and the location of the injector supply relay and the two 5A fuses.

I still have not checked the ECU and its connector in case it may have come lose, this may be behind the glove box?


My suspect is injector supply relay? and I have checked all fuses and none seem to be blown, but where is the relay located? the fuel pump relay must be ok as the pump runs fine during initial priming for a few seconds and during cranking.

I have also changed the crank sensor since it was only £26.00 so we might as well i thought , but obviously this made no difference, perhaphs we should have spent bthat money on a decent haynes repair manual! and as I said the engine starts with a starting spray.

The car is 56 reg - I think that is 2006, and not sure if it is MK4 or Mk 5. (I know about Calibra!)
thanks in advance, any bit of help will be appreciated.

[Mikedelta]

As I think the starting issues are fuel delivery related, this bit of information I dug out using Google really helped me understand a liitle more about VW FSI, no wonder when you make things more complicated things get beyond a joke, since the injectors squirt fuel directly into the cylinders (direct injection) as well as delivered twice per stroke, and uses a High Pressure fuel pump driven by a camshaft so now I will have more things to look at why this problem has occured.

for those who may be interested in furthering knowledge here is the article that explains in a layman's terms : http://www.volkspage.net/technik/ssp/ssp/SSP_296_d1.pdf


On page 30 it says clearly :

Effects of signal failure
If the fuel pump control unit should fail in its function, the engine will not run.

There you go modern technology and electronic revolution for worst reliability!

[Mikedelta]

So far I have not had any feedback from anyone regarding my issues, looking at what we have diagnosed so far, it does seem to point out to two things now, ECU, which is unlikely, and the other being High Pressure Fuel pump driven by camshaft, easy to change, 3 hex bolts, and no way of testing this unless one has a pressure gauge to read up to 100Bars, but relatively cheap on ebay for around £100.00

has anyone had to change theirs? if so what are the symptoms when they go wrong, aparently manufactured by Hitach! I applied 12V Dc to its control solinoid valve and draws in access of approx 7.5 amps! almost 100watts! not sure if this is right, sounds a bit much for a solenoid needle valve even for a 100 Bar pressure.

[Mikedelta]

Looks like everyone has gone away on holidays to be away from swamped England! (LOL)

But woud you believe it, I took out the High Pressure Fuel pump, brought it in my workshop, and some petrol spilled out from it, which I wiped roughly with a cloth and then 3 hours later my worktop was still looking wet! so here is our clue now, another case of contaminated fuel, which has lots of oil in it! no wonder another guy who was earlier on struggling to get this car started said he found that the plugs were getting tons of oil, and he had to clean them a few times, whilst I have not opened any plugs yet, but the car is not starting even with the Engine Starting spray , so that means plugs need cleaning again and I will be now exploring how this oil got into his petrol tank! bloody marvelous, I just jpined these forums to learn something from you and now I eneded up training you guys!


However, anyone with any experience on failure of these High pressure fuel pumps please let me know,, what sort of reliability do they have? Ofcourse now I have ruled out the high pressure pump simply because the fuel is hevily contaminated, I will post a picture of the containated fuel against normal clear fuel

[Mikedelta]

Glorious News, drained away contaminated fuel, which was very oiley, even spark plugs were covered in it within seconds, purged with fresh fuel, and then filled up with about 12 liters of fresh fuel and got engine starting spray to start the engine, which failed to start, because the only thing we did not purge was the high pressure injection rail, but got a small container of petrol, dropped a small bore pipe (2mm diameter) and dropped one end in the container and one end in the throttle body and the engine fired away and maanged to run as if it was running on a carbrettor, this cleared away all oil which burnt up, and also purged away the High pressure injector rail, and the car now runs smooth as the baby's bum, no further issues, I am now having to dispose of nearly £25 worth of contaminated fuel somewhere, but i have a good plan for it, it will be poured into my old Manta GTE, and this bitch is very thirsty, so she will really enjoy this ride today and finish off this contaminated petrol and I need to make this trip to Harlow and back, so this will be a bomus, if should the car stall, I don't pay AA for nothing! tow me home please!

Well again, thanks for your help VW people, try not to be so shy next time! (lol)

[micheal balbrig]

Was it diesel contamination in petrol,if so it would probably be bad to put it in your other car.
I think the diesel washes the cylinder walls and causes lack of lubrication.
Sorry for being unable to help with your non start problem but admire your determination.

[Mikedelta]

Thanks Micheal, and no worries for not being able to help, I enjoyed learning about FSI engine how it is direct injection and how it uses two fuel pumps, this in itself was thrilling! and I am really an electronics expert and knows fundamental principles of cars, but none of us including one garage the car was taken to knew the issues might be with contaminated fuel, that is because it smelled very much like petrol and no one suspected that it was heavily contaminated with some kind of oil, I have never handled diesel in my life, so i won't k now if diesel has oil like base, i mean what happens if you pour diesel on a surface and does it leave oiley residue, this fuel from the car did that quite bad, I have used some of this fuel in my Manta whose tank was virtually empty and it started Ok and is producing a little bit of grey smoke now, like you get when engines burn oil through poor valve seals, although I am taking a risk against police stopping me and other elements where the car may conk out on me, but then again it is being done all in the name of science! Better to burn this contaminated fuel than to pour it in some land fill site.

The friend whose car it is swears by that he did not put diesel in his tank and did not obtain receipt when he topped up £20.00 worth of unleaded! and the garage may not admit any liability.

Sadly all my effort was only worth £50.00 my friend paid me as a drink! and I sweated my rollocks like hell trying to remove the old crank sensor from underneath the car, first having removed the drive shaft, (RH) and then putting in a new sensor, this was alone the most daunting task.

But in the interst of cars, a job well done and a happy friend! not that he did not take his car to a garage where they tried eerything and still did not manage to determine the cause was nothing but contaminated fuel and hence no fault codes were thrown!

My Manta has a very basic ECU, nothing like todays cars, so you could throw anything at it and it will burn it, I once remember I drove it on white spirit when i ran out of fuel, and I had 3 liters of white spirt which allowed it to get to a garage!

[Pongoc]

I am currently in trouble with my 1.6 fsi vw passatt it wont start
I checked fuel from pump to engine and have a good strong pressure i also disconnected pipe from high pressure pump and theres good pressure from there
I checked for spark and this is working fine to
I have no fault codes in engine control unit
When i spray easy start into carb it fores up and runs as long as i keep spraying
Could somebody help me i am new to this and am really stuck thanks for your time