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Thread: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!!

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  1. Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #1
    OldBoy Racer Guest
    Bought a 1998 S4 in April -already feel like an old hand! BIG GRIN factor every time I boot the throttle, however what a tale of woes! For 11 1/2 wekks of the five months I have owned it it has been in the garage getting fixed! ABS light, leaking radiator, air con pump, intermittent alarm, brake warning light, viscous fan stuck on, tickover high, lambda sensoe failes, engine rattle (loose lining on OS exhaust manifold) and so on. Dealer has been good up to now and has paid all bills, but starting to get iffy!

    Still got a (less noisy) rattle on acceleration or when blipping throttle (NS exhaust manifold?) Viscous fan needs replacement. Red brake warning light still comes on (intermittently) on startup then goes off after three beeps. Now a new problem, refusing to start after a shortish run then being left for a few minutes.

    Advice needed:
    1. Should the brake warning light do this? Mechanic at Four Rings Motors says it is normal - pressure loss made good shortly after engine starts? No brake fluid loss or leaks. Disks and pads are new.
    2. Any thoughts on the non starting after a short run?
    3. Love the car. Heart wants to keep it, head says dump it quick. Thoughts?

    Great forum.

    Thanks Alan
     
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  2. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #2
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    S4 have there issues and one of the main things can be MAF's and some of the intake rubber pipes can crack causing air leeks which in turn can kill the turbo’s so have them checked out plus the flexible throttle body boot (TBB) can split, causing an air-leak.

    Brakes could one of two things, if the ABS light comes on from time to time then it could be the module which are a known fault which can be fixed for around £100 ring this number for more info 0115 9190770 or it could be brake dust on the ABS sensor or better still it is not seated correctly.

    No starting could be the first option or even warn plugs but it could be also the coolant sensor playing up.

    Rattle could be the down pipe exhaust shield which again is a known problem but can only be fixed by removing the engine so you may have to live with that till another day.

    04 Audi A4 B6 1.8TQ S-Line 190bhp 6 Speed Duel SMIC
    Milltek Exhaust|VMR boost Gauge|SP51 K04-15 Outlaw (K04-23+)|Samco Sport DV|034 Sport CAT|
    To be fitted: B7 RS4 F-Brakes|B5 RS4 R-Brakes|SB Stage4| TT MAF| 380 inj|
     
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  3. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #3
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    More info,

    First some pictures. If I can get that to work, text will follow:





    Apologies for the length, but most of it is relevant to the post...

    When I bought my 1998 S4, the owner (a friend) gave me what I thought was a generous discount on the price of the car because of an annoying rattle. He had been told by Links Audi that it was a heatshield on the turbo and that, whilst annoying, it was unimportant. In any case, you could barely hear it with the windows up, so I went ahead and bought the car.

    After doing some reading, I began to suspect that it was the dreaded manifold problem. I also knew that a Lambda sensor (on the other bank) was dead and that the MAF was suspect because the car was no quicker than my previous 2.5L Mitsubishi Galant (Auto).

    The previous owner had booked it into Links Audi to get the cam belt and water pump done before he passed it over to me, so I asked them to look at the rattle and the MAF. They came back with the same "turbo heatshield" excuse and said that the MAF was "within specification". At this time I was unaware that Audi test the MAF sensor at idle , and they wanted £300 to change the Lambda sensor, so I let it be.

    After a week or so I was thinking of selling the car because it was really not up to much considering it was no quicker, no more comfortable and more expensive to insure than my previous car that I sold for less than a third of what I paid for this one.

    I read about the VAG-COM test for the MAF and carried it out. Lo and behold, I was getting 160g/s max and it was also throwing Lean codes to boot. I acquired a working MAF (thanks to DavidT), reset the DTCs and suddenly the power was back. I got the Lambda sensor changed at my local garage and it was DTC free and pulling like a train. And yet.... there was still a rattle.

    Every time I opened it up on the road, I had visions of pieces of manifold dropping into the turbo, so I decided to take the plunge and have it fixed. AwesomeGTI in South Manchester did the job. They they tried to save me some cash by changing the VVT tensioner first (as well as changing the cam belt again), but I was right with my diagnosis, so they eventually hoisted the engine out and changed the manifolds. Once they had taken the old manifolds off, they were amazed to see just how bad it was.

    The top picture shows the loose liner that was causing the annoying noise. Tiny pieces had either corroded away or broken off leaving a jagged edge, but anything that went through the turbo must have been too small to cause damage because the turbos were fine when they checked them.

    However, once the liner comes loose, it is free to rattle up against the EGT sensor that sits just in front of the turbo. The jagged edge of the broken liner acts as a mini hacksaw, slowly cutting through the base of the EGT sensor. If you take a look at the lower picture, you will see that the liner had cut about a quarter of the way through. In fact, the sensor had started to lean over at about 15 degrees from perpendicular, reminiscent of a tree being felled - just before it falls over.

    The car had been rattling for over a year, so the process is quite slow. Nevertheless, I would have eventually had a lump of metal weighing ~10g heading staight for the tubine blades and Audi were still insisting that the rattle was "just a little annoying".

    Now for my theory :

    We all know that the MAF sensors invariably fail on these cars. When this happens, there are no DTC codes thrown out until it gets REALLY bad, then the engine reports fuel trim = lean. Even then, Audi refuse to accept that there is anything wrong, so they leave the car running with a faulty MAF, causing it to run lean. Running lean causes the exhaust gas to get hotter than normal, causing the manifold to experience higher temperatures than it was designed for. The already weak design simply cannot tolerate the long-term exposure to excessive heat and the liner comes loose.

    The morals of the tale:
    a) Get a VAG-com lead and make sure your MAF is OK. Running lean will put strain on the poorly designed manifolds, possibly landing you with a bill fo close to £2k
    b) If your turbo heatshield is rattling, make sure it really is the turbo and not the manifold especially if it has been diagnosed by Audi.
    c) If your manifolds fail, do not delay getting them replaced. If the fragments from the liner do not mash the turbine, then the EGT sensor will once the liner has sawn through its shaft!

    Al.

    04 Audi A4 B6 1.8TQ S-Line 190bhp 6 Speed Duel SMIC
    Milltek Exhaust|VMR boost Gauge|SP51 K04-15 Outlaw (K04-23+)|Samco Sport DV|034 Sport CAT|
    To be fitted: B7 RS4 F-Brakes|B5 RS4 R-Brakes|SB Stage4| TT MAF| 380 inj|
     
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  4. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #4
    OldBoy Racer Guest
    Thanks Al. Some of the technical stuff is a bit over my head but I get the gist. Your coprehensive answer is much appreciated.

    1. Rattle.

    My RH manifold was just like the picture. As the niose is reduced, but not cleared (and now seems louder on the left than the right) I am guessing that the LH one has the same fault and will need replacing. No cause for the manifold prolem was suggested.

    As for cause I guess that a faulty MAF sensor could be the culprit, causing the exhaust gasses to get too hot? So this needs to be checked carefully. I don't know if Four Rings has an 'Audi Lead'. Their diagnostic software is Bentley (?) and the owner has more Audi training certificates than you can shake a stick at so I hope he has and will know what he is doing. I'll ask him to look at the MAF sensor.

    The turbos were replaced just before purchase (with good condition second hand ones). I wonder if bits of manifold liner, or a bit of the EGT sensor caused the old ones to fail?

    The turbo heatshileds were missing, before they replaced the RH manifold and a (second hand) pair were sourced and fitted at the same time, so they also need looking at as the source of the rattle.

    The Lambda sensor was replaced (new) at the same time as the manifold, so this should be OK.

    The car certainly does not lack power and a wall of torque comes in at around 2000 rpm and continues up to the red line in all gears so my guess is there is nothing too seriously wrong with the setup or the turbos at the moment.

    2. Non start from hot.

    I'll get the intake rubber pipes examined for cracks and also the flexible throttle body boot (TBB) for splits.

    The car was serviced but there is no specific note of the plugs being changed, so I think I'll put a new set in anyway.

    I will also get the coolant sensor checked.


    3. ABS sensor.
    SOLVED. It turns out that the chassis was just on the cusp of a change and is a newer version. Going by chassis number alone, the wrong sensors will be suppied. Once the correct sensors were installed all was fine.

    HOWEVER: I no longer get the ABS warning light showing, but the big red 'eff off' brake warning light comes on and bongs at me until the engie has started and run for a few seconds. Usually when starting from cold, and (occasionally) at other times on startup. Never comes on whilst driving. Is this normal? Four Rings says it is OK?


    The car is back at Four Rings to have these issues looked at (including replacing the viscous couplrd fan). I'll call them tomorrow, armed with this info.

    I am hoping to convince the dealer that it is still their responsibility. Have not had the car six months yet and it has been in a garage being fixed for nearly three months. I have only done about 1200 miles in it! I think the car was badly looked after previously and was a bit of a lemon when the dealer bought it. They have lost a lot of money on it so far. I am sympathetic, but, at the same time that's the business. So, if they wont sort it out I will be returning it to them. I hope I dont have to take them to court.

    Regards

    Alan
     
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  5. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #5
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    I agree they should resolve all issues.

    As for the breaks you should not have any warning sounds when you turn her on so tell them to sort it out as it is another problem.

    04 Audi A4 B6 1.8TQ S-Line 190bhp 6 Speed Duel SMIC
    Milltek Exhaust|VMR boost Gauge|SP51 K04-15 Outlaw (K04-23+)|Samco Sport DV|034 Sport CAT|
    To be fitted: B7 RS4 F-Brakes|B5 RS4 R-Brakes|SB Stage4| TT MAF| 380 inj|
     
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  6. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #6
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    brake light could be as simple as just too much brake fluid in the reservoir.

    perhaps!

    And I like the way that stuff is laid out on your carpet, Al !
     
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  7. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #7
    OldBoy Racer Guest
    Latest news. Viscous fan replaced, LH manifold replaced, new set of plugs, one new coil. Car now sounds wonderfully quiet. Had to make a contribution towards cost!!! Dealer has now paid out 2/3 of purchase price in repairs. Yes, I know he should pay it all, but he has been a Gent up to now and said it was the deal offered or take him to court. Took legal advice and the pragmatist in me decided that age of car, mileage, and what was already paid out might go against me and I'd end up getting nothing.

    Unfortunately after fixing the above they could not get the Air Con working again (sorted in April with a new compressor) so it has gone back AGAIN to have that sorted! (under guarantee from the garage!)


    Intermittent hot start problem persists. garage reckons it is fuel pump relay. It never happens first thing or when the car has not been driven for an hour or two. He is fitting a new one at same time as sorting the air con. He STILL insists the brake warning light is normal!!!!

    Going to wait 'till I get it back and take it to a local VWAudi guy for opinion.

    Thanks for the advice/opinions guys.

    Alan
     
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  8. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #8
    OldBoy Racer Guest
    Got the car back - finally.

    Brake light problem seems to have corrected itself!

    Hot start problem persisted though. My local mechanic (Liam - not Audi but very resonable and knowledgeable) came up and ran his analyser on it. Intermittent temp sensor fault. Intermittently dropping to -15 deg!!

    Has replaced it and hot start problem dissapeared! Economy will probably be better too.

    All well now exept radio volume seems to be full on or nothing. Temp solution - have changed volume setting when it comes on to lowest setting (1/5) and faded the speakers to 80% rear. Local mechanic says has someone with a spare unit he got for a TT but it did not have the Sat Nav facility. Should be able to replace quite cheaply.

    Also Liam reckons that brakes are not as sharp as should be. Poss servo one way valve probelm or leak in pipework? Anyone had any experience with 'Greenstuff' pads? Good idea on an S4 or not?

    If anyone wants the number for a good local mechanic in the Watford area, just ask. Liam is a little unconventional but I have used him for 6 years and he has always managed to solve the problem, usually at a fraction of main dealer cost, when they can't even diagnose it.

    Does anyone know if the phone/hand free installation in my car would have been standard or aftermarket?

    Keep posting

    Alan
     
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  9. Re: Newby advice - S4 various!!!!!!!! 
    #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldBoy Racer View Post
    Got the car back - finally.


    Does anyone know if the phone/hand free installation in my car would have been standard or aftermarket?

    Keep posting

    Alan

    I think it was an optional extra

    04 Audi A4 B6 1.8TQ S-Line 190bhp 6 Speed Duel SMIC
    Milltek Exhaust|VMR boost Gauge|SP51 K04-15 Outlaw (K04-23+)|Samco Sport DV|034 Sport CAT|
    To be fitted: B7 RS4 F-Brakes|B5 RS4 R-Brakes|SB Stage4| TT MAF| 380 inj|
     
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