2010 A4 3.0 Diesel - Fuel system failure

[F4TCT]

Hi, new to the forums and hope this thread is in the correct place.

I have a 2010 A4 Sline 3.0 Diesel V6 Quattro (from new) and nearly 2 weeks ago, I was travelling and the car suddenly went into limp mode. I wasn't able to pull over in a safe place and continued on. Just as I reached a set of cross roads, the car died all together and wouldn't restart.

It got recovered to Audi and they diagnosed a failure of the high pressure fuel system and a lot of metal swarf was found in the system, resulting in an entire fuel system change - to the tune of £10,000......

I thought it was maybe a blocked fuel filter, sadly not. The return pipe was either full or empty, was hard to tell without taking it off.

I fill up at the same morrisons garage every week, use no other additives etc etc... have never had any other rubbish in.

So whos telling the truth here? could this damage have been caused by trying to start the car with no fuel in it? can bad fuel really do this?

States on the car that it cannot run on bio diesel.

Any help/advice is greatly appreciated.

Dan

[Audi.Quattro]

£10,000. ***

[F4TCT]

I did find this - exact same issue as me - http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthrea...717&viewfull=1

Dan

[Eshrules]

From reading that thread you've linked, they seem to come to the same conclusion re biodiesel being the (main) cause.

Bosch Common Raiil Pump failures are getting all to common, the pumps are asked to produce crazy pressures whilst being lubricated with nothing more than Diesel, to make matters worse sulphur which acts as a lubricant in the fuel is being reduced - stay away from supermarket ultra low sulphur fuels!

The legal limit for lubricity in diesel in the Uk is exactly the same as the minimum recommended by Bosch for the pumps, leaving no margine for error, ie water or petrol contamination

Running out of fuel or accidentally filling with Petrol s a disaster for common rail pumps any reduction in lubricity is likely to lead to premature and rapid failure

Biodiesel is also a problem as it is more likely to absorb water in storage and use again reducing lubricity

I run a fleet of chauffeur vehicles inc 2 phaeton all equipped with Bosch Common Rail Pumps, having seen a Phaeton and 7 series BMW belonging to colleagues both suffer pump failures 2 yrs ago all our vehicles now get a shot of fuel additive and 500ml of 2 stroke oil added to the fuel each fill up

The Phaeton that suffered the pump failure had been run exclusively on Sainsburys ultra low sulphur diesel - am sure there's a lesson there somewhere !

Morrisons were dispensing B30 biodisel at their pumps (30% bio/70% diesel blend) but it seems they withdrew that at some point 2010.

I fear (at least for as long as it was available) the morrisons diesel you were filling up with will have been the B30 biodiesel, which your car isn't supposed to be run on.

I don't understand the fuel enough to work out how that could cause the issue you've now got - if someone else would care to offer that up?

[theskyfox]

This is worrying...with the UK requiring all diesel to contain 5% biodiesel, what is to say that any place you buy from hasn't accidentally put "too much" biodiesel in its blend?! £10k...Jeeeeeeeeeez I think I would cry...

-Andrew

[rafletcher]

This is worrying...with the UK requiring all diesel to contain 5% biodiesel, what is to say that any place you buy from hasn't accidentally put "too much" biodiesel in its blend?! £10k...Jeeeeeeeeeez I think I would cry...

-Andrew

Not done by he retailer, it's delivered that way from the refinery/depot. And biodiesel is expensive - B30 was only sold because Morrisons (the only retailer ever to sell it in the UK) got a 20p/litre subsidy. When that was withdrawn by the government, so was the fuel. So it'll stay at B5 for now-unless legislation forces change.

[F4TCT]

So, £8400.13 later I have the car back.

Catastrophic failure of high pressure fuel pump resulting in metal swarf being transported round the fuel system. Everything replaced fuel related, injectors, the lot bar the fuel tank which was taken out and cleaned.

22 hours work. Job should have been a lot more but they did what they could and discounted it.

Got onto morrisons who told me to stick my phallus up my ****! Subsequently emailed them back and awaiting a reply from their 'fuel guy'

Seems strange how my partners grandad who has a diesel IX35 suffered a clogged up filter aswell as my mates, partners grandad with the same issue - surprise surprise, we all use the same station.

Been treating the old girl to BP Ultimate, however my MPG has gone down if anything!

So be warned folks.

Dan

[theskyfox]

So, £8400.13 later I have the car back.

Catastrophic failure of high pressure fuel pump resulting in metal swarf being transported round the fuel system. Everything replaced fuel related, injectors, the lot bar the fuel tank which was taken out and cleaned.

22 hours work. Job should have been a lot more but they did what they could and discounted it.

Got onto morrisons who told me to stick my phallus up my ****! Subsequently emailed them back and awaiting a reply from their 'fuel guy'

Seems strange how my partners grandad who has a diesel IX35 suffered a clogged up filter aswell as my mates, partners grandad with the same issue - surprise surprise, we all use the same station.

Been treating the old girl to BP Ultimate, however my MPG has gone down if anything!

So be warned folks.

Dan

Surely there must be a way you can get some sort of compensation for this? I'd start by getting it in writing from Audi that the problem was poor quality fuel...then get hold of your receipts/proof of purchase from Morrisons to show that they are the only place you have bought fuel from. Its outrageous to think they can supply sub quality fuel, cause £10k worth of damage and get away with it! In your position I would be after blood...

-Andrew

[rafletcher]

Thing is it wasn't "sub quality" fuel - it was compliant to all relevant UK and EU regs at the time - it's just a lot of cars weren't tested/designed for biodiesel. And of course you didn't have to use it, and it was only Morrisons that had 30% biodiesel anyway. All others (petrol and diesel) is 5% "bio" max. The Morrisons fuel would have had an E30 label on the pump. Note that the current up-to-5% blends o NOT require to be identified as such on he pump ,but it is assumed that at this level there are no compatability problems with modern engines. Sadly a driver not knowing about E30 diesel isn't Morrisons fault.

Note that most petrol now is E5- 5% bioethanol. EU law requires us to go to E10 but our government is holding off until most non-compatible cars are scrapped. Most modern petrol engines will cope - some older ones won't. However all filling stations selling E10 (when it comes in) will also have to sell E5 s a "protection grade" fuel, at least for while. E10 will be labelled as such.

A note for travellers - in France E10 petrol is widely sold already, but with E5 still available alongside.

[F4TCT]

How is the average joe expected to know all this?

The car simply states do not use bio diesel. If bio is being mixed in everyones fuel, then where am i supposed to fill up?

Morrissons can see exactly what ive spent and how often given the pings on the miles card.

Audi categorically said (the guy even showed me the behind the scenes guide) and its fuel which is not in spec, water and/or unleaded mixed in or general crap fuel.

Ive seen the damage, bit chunks of metal and swarf all over. horrendous site.

Morrissons excuse is that theres been no other complaints - which i have demanded they prove. Strange how their insurance team is a week behind, full of claims isnt it.

So, what fuel am i supposed to be using and where do i get it from?

Ive been using only bp and shell regular diesel aswell as the bp ultimate now and again.

Dan