Is A4 quality just a trick of marketing (or am I just unlucky)?

[gandacle]

Afternoon all

Not sure where to start but wanted to get some views as to whether I'm the most unlucky owner in the UK or whether Audi's aren't quite what everyone thinks they are.

I bought a second hand A4 TDI (170) S-Line in Jan 2010. It had one previous owner, FASH and about 55k miles on the clock. In my ownership to date it's done another 50k miles and had the following mechanical issues:
1, EGR cooler
2, EGR valve
3, DPF problem (although the fix for this wasn't replacement)
4, 3 x Injectors (these failed prior to the general recall and as per my other post were eventually dealt with as a goodwill gesture)
5, 4 x Injectors (as part of the general recall)
6, Oil pump failure leading to blown turbo and some other stuff which due to the size of the bill I've not brought myself to look at yet.

During my ownership the car has continued to be looked after by a main dealer so all the service items have been done on schedule in addition to the above (and we're talking belts, brakes and other not cheap bits).

In the interests of balance I should say that my experience of the dealers has been first-class and they are endlessly helpful etc. I should also say that the most recent failure (no. 6) had a 50% parts contribution by way of goodwill but all in the mechanical failures have cost the thick end of £4k net of goodwill plus the obvious massive inconvenience of breaking down. This on top of the expected running costs.

I'm not the only one either - a mate had a 3.0 TDI A5 brought as an ex-demo which was almost always at the dealer (most amusingly when the keyless-go system failed and shut the car down) and another two have had oil pump failure (one poor bloke had to stump for the whole bill as his car hadn't been dealer maintained from new).

Given this litany of failures am I just unlucky or is it the case that they are just as poorly built as everything else (I'm not suggesting they are worse than the competition)? The only difference being that if a dealer has serviced the car then they'll do a little bit to ease the financial pain of the repair?

Look forward to your thoughts before I take my hard earned off to the guys with the funny blue and white badge...

PS, I did have a new A5 TFSI (auto / tip) as a courtesy car for the last three weeks and it burns fuel like a jumbo jet at take off even when I was being careful!!

[ukdan]

Build quality is good on VW\Audi cars.
It's the design flaws that's the problem.

[mikeybutch]

I think you have been unlucky although VAG quality is something of a myth.Surveys I have seen still put Jap cars at the top.

[GarJE]

All are engine problems and diesel fuelled ones specifically, which are used across several VAG platforms. Don't think your issue is with the A4.

[mm707]

I think these cars have far too many issues especially considering how much they cost new and the fact that they are only a few years old

[royster]

The 170tdi is quite problematic engine due to it being finely tuned. Have friends that have this engine and all they do is have trouble with it similar to your list.

Whereas my 1.9tdi has done 120k with no major problems (touch wood)!

[Thon]

When I decided an A4 Quattro Avant was the right car for me, I was fairly horrified to read of the litany of injector and oil pump failures that seem to afflict certain ages of 2.0TDI motor. It put me off that engine entirely. I have had VAG cars many times over the years and have driven over 100K miles in 3 different Passat TDIs with only one instance of a failed MAF (ironically on the newest one) and normal servicing only. I eventually decided there was too much risk in the 2.0TDI for my liking and went for the 3.0TDI version, which is significantly worse on fuel (around 38 - 40mpg overall) but fingers crossed will be reasonably reliable.

To echo another post, I think VAG build quality is generally good (Skodas particularly so) but there do seem to be some serious design flaws, which is a crying shame.

[gandacle]

Interesting to hear your thoughts.

I often thought that 170 bhp was a lot to squeeze out of a 2 litre / 4 cylinder diesel motor especially when complicated by all the EU / UK Gov required emission reducing stuff. Does anyone know whether the BMW 2.0l unit (which has gone from 150 to 163 to 177 bhp) suffers in the same way?

On the subject of build quality v design faults I consider them to be the same thing since VAG design and build the whole thing more-or-less. I know they 'buy-in' some stuff from third parties (Bosch etc) but VAG will be involved in designing and speccing these bits with the third party suplier from day one - the point of buying in is more to do with accountancy and the 80's corporate trend to out-sourcing than anything else...

Thon, is the 38-40 mpg on a combined cycle? If so I reckon that's not bad at all. My one doesn't do a great deal more than that (maybe 45ish on the combined run).

[Sloppy]

i also am dissapointed, i did losts of research and as others was horrified at the 2.0 diesel issues (have alwys been a diesel man in the past) so went for the 2.0t as at the time the only documented issues were very minor and easy fiixes.

I was dissapointed when my 2.0t snapped its cam chain (they have a timing belt but the cams are joined by a chain at the back of the head which controls the variable valve timing) and reading on this seems to have risen its head as a fault during my 2 years of ownership, but apperars to be limited to 2005 cars. Even more dissapointing was the fact that my car had a full audi service history and when i rung them for the parts to reapair the head they told me that the bit i required is no longer available seperately but comes as a 'repair kit' galvanising the fact that it obviously is a common fault...

However, i cant just have a go at audi, my previous car was a mondeo st tdci and this managed to hammer its dual mass fly wheel and the injectors were not performing as they should with poor starting, other than that it was a fantastic car returning excellent mpg much better spec than the audi and excellent handling. Although it had it faults to be fair they were not as critical as the audi's i.e end of engine.

After the audi failed i did consider a newer car and looked at bmw 520d's and again not with out there faults dmf's early cars have breather problems and more recently ive seen reports of cam chain failures on the 520'd 177 cars as the fuel pumps cease at aprox 120k... new engine time.

most modern cars seem the be plauged with design flaws or over sights in engineering specs which is crap...

next car for me will be mondeo titanium x i think heading into winter.

[Crasher]

From what my mates in this game tell me, if you want real grief and pain buy other than VAG, the current 3+ year old crop of Honda/Toyota/Mazda/Ford/Poxhaul are driving the trade nuts and Frog crap always has done. As for the other German makes they fare no better. The problem is cars are built so people can afford to buy them but modern cars are just too complex, there has to come a day when this techno crap we are being sold comes crashing down, cars are getting as crash prone as the average PC!