Dynamic pump timing

**drpellypo** · 15-04-2012,10:03 PM

Hi all.

Have just fitted new cambelts/waterpump/thermostat on my 2002 AYM 2.5. Used all the locking tools and my mate who did the work followed the elsawin instructions with regards to order of things and torque settings etc. However, car is running really clattery, down on power, and occasionally jolts when pulling away (took it on 5 mile test drive.) I'm assuming this means the timing is out? Car didn't do this before. I have full version of VCDS and have seen instructions on how to check the timing, but can you do any actual adjustment in VCDS? If so, how?

**drpellypo** · 15-04-2012,10:17 PM

Oh, and also, I've just read a guide on here about not being able to take the front end off due to their being ATF pipes in the way. My friend removed the entire front end. Does this mean he has opened up pipes that contain ATF fluid and some has ended up on my drive??

**ceilidhalfie** · 16-04-2012,12:57 PM

You can only CHECK the Fuel Injection Pump Timing with VCDS. As stated in the ELSAWIN manual, first, check the engine temp is >83degrees, then second check the timing reading in VCDS when at 100%. Spec is 2% +- 2degrees RETARDED (or LATE as VCDS reports). If out of spec, again refer to the procedure in ELSAWIN to manually adjust timing. Loosen the 3 bolts on the LH cam sprocket, do not adjust the belt tension (unless the pointers are mis-aligned). With a 24mm (I THINK) spanner on the central bolt (BUT DO NOT LOOSEN) of the Fuel Injection Pump pulley, rotate the pulley a little - clockwise to advance, anti-clockwise to retard. Retighten the 3 bolts on the cam sprocket (to 25nm I think). When the injection pump timing belt was installed by your mate the 3 bolts should have been aligned centrally in the elongated holes of the sprocket - this is what gives the ability to adjust the timing only a little BUT SHOULD BE sufficient to get timing in spec. Re-run VCDS to re-check timing.
Regarding ATF pipes, you were looking at one of my posts. I have a 2002 AKE automatic engine and you can take the front off this car and swing like a gate WITH THE ATF PIPES STILL CONNECTED. You need to check with your mate if he did it this way. If he disconnected ATF pipes and lost fluid from the ATF gearbox (do you have an automatic??), the gearbox ATF level MUST be checked and re-filled if neccessary. Again, refer to the ELSAWIN manual. Low ATF level in the gearbox will result in sticking gear changes - but I don't believe loss in power.

You say "the car is running really clattery, down on power". Have you checked the big circlips are on tight on the charged air hoses for the turbo. If one of these is loose (letting out air) or has blown off, you will get this effect.

Best of luck with the fix.

**drpellypo** · 16-04-2012,01:41 PM

Thank you SO much for your reply! Re the ATF fluid he said he tied the pipe up high and only a trickle of fluid was lost - no more than 50ml. To do the above, does the front end have to come off again? I have elsawin but wasn't able to find pump timing instructions. Will have another look.

Oh, one slight sticking point. If I try to run the car at idle to warm up, it stalls. This has only happened once but I didn't want to run it again. I ran VCDS scan and it throws up 17583/P1175/004469 - Pre-Injection Turned Off
I'm assuming this is because timing is out? Thanks again for your reply. I had virtually no sleep last night because I'm so worried this is going to cost me a fortune. Hopefully my dad-in-law who's a mechanic might be able to help once we find the elsawin article and if the front end doesn't have to come off again.

**BPApsolut** · 16-04-2012,03:07 PM

See this page, please: http://www.ross-tech.com/vag-scope/TDIGraph.html

end this picture

Regards,
B

**ceilidhalfie** · 16-04-2012,03:41 PM

Originally Posted by drpellypo

Thank you SO much for your reply! Re the ATF fluid he said he tied the pipe up high and only a trickle of fluid was lost - no more than 50ml. To do the above, does the front end have to come off again? I have elsawin but wasn't able to find pump timing instructions. Will have another look.

Oh, one slight sticking point. If I try to run the car at idle to warm up, it stalls. This has only happened once but I didn't want to run it again. I ran VCDS scan and it throws up 17583/P1175/004469 - Pre-Injection Turned Off
I'm assuming this is because timing is out? Thanks again for your reply. I had virtually no sleep last night because I'm so worried this is going to cost me a fortune. Hopefully my dad-in-law who's a mechanic might be able to help once we find the elsawin article and if the front end doesn't have to come off again.

To manually adjujst timing, easist way is to put lock carrier in service position and remove the left and right front cam covers. You need to find out the current timing setting though before you attempt adjujsting - you need to know if you are going ot advance or retard!

**drpellypo** · 21-04-2012,09:14 AM

I'll pass that on - thanks. I'm hoping it doesn't stall again on tickover when my mechanic does this as that will make the timing impossible to check, no? As it won't get up to 85c

**drpellypo** · 30-04-2012,07:44 AM

Ok - update on this. Managed to get it to run up to temp. Checked and it was massively advanced. Turned the pump as per instructions to retard it, then it started stalling again. Went back and forth with this for 2 hours. Absolutely tiny movements each time. Either stalls almost immediately or keeps running but reads as very advanced. Running very rough through this process. Seems to be temp related, e.g when it hits a certain temp it cuts out. Anyone any ideas?? Hair totally torn out now!