Engine Cutting Out

[Finsteigle]

My car is an '05 (and onwards) Passat 1.6 FSi (engine BLF)

I'm ex trade and can fix most things but somewhat alergic to black box technology and dealerships that seem to do very little for their money these days. I'm trying to avoid a dealer visit in this case if possible (for reasons I will expand on below) and hoping someone has experienced the same issues.

Issue 1 - Ever since I have had the car (bought at about 6,000 miles in 2006) it has very occasionally experienced a total loss of power. This normally happens when pulling away quickly - what I would call 'engine under high load'. This is not like when the ESP progressively backs off the power on a corner. The effect is instant, one minute the car is starting to accelerate and then 0.5s later all power is lost. The sudden loss of power is quite alarming, you feel like you are going to fly through the windscreen! Then virtually instantly power is restored again and away you go. This can happen at any time, once every couple of months, possibly more prevalent in wet weather but difficult to say. Has anyone experienced the same thing?

Issue 2 (a red herring?) - In 2009 the yellow engine warning symbol apeared in the rev counter. This came and went for a bit and then stuck for good. I had this diagnosed at the time by a reputable garage that was carring out my MOT. They said it was a fault with the EGR valve and upon diassembly had discovered that 2 teeth were missing off the quadrant gear cog that drives the valve. As a result the motor was just spinning and failing to engage the valve (which would ordinarily open by turning a quarter turn). They said it would not affect my emissions test adversely and probably only came into play when driving (I am guessing manifold air pressure drop is a key factor in activating this valve). Anyhoo... the car has had 3 MOTs since and been fine on emissions every time. I have not noticed any change in driving the car since the valve went down. I get 45 to the gallon on a long run and probably 30 most of the time (I have a heavy foot) but this is a big heavy car with a small engine. Today (in consideration of Issue 3 which I will come on to next) I removed the EGR valve and took it apart. The situation is exactly as the garage described. 2 teeth are broken off the quadrant gear with the effect that the valve never opens. I don't see this as a great issue. The engine management system does not appear to mind too much. Fuel consumption is ok, performance is ok. Just the annoying light on the dashboard (black tape?). I can replace the valve if I choose (£125 from GSF) but what's the point as this has not caused any noticeable issues for the last 3 years. Unfortunately I know that if I visit the dealership (see Issue 3) they will inevitably want to replace the valve but I think this is just a red herring. Any comments?

Issue 3 - Sunny day, coming back from a BBQ party late afternoon. Coasting along on a straight level road at about 70 mph. Engine up to temp. Noticed engine was surging and then faltering repeatedly. EPC symbol appears in dashboard (next to the blasted engine symbol). I believe I could hear pinking too. Seems to be holding back and won't accelerate cleanly. Holding back but gets there eventually. Taking foot off accelerator causes engine to stall and won't restart until clutch down, turn off and restart on ignition key. Never had to stop but must have restarted the engine 20 times or more in a twenty mile journey. Engine always started. This feels like an ignition fault. Possibly an ignition amplifier fault (in whatever form that exists on this car) or a major HT fault (except it can't be that as there is a separate coil per plug!). Reving the engine or keeping in a higher rev range seems to keep the engine alive although running rough. Next day removed plugs, old ones are burnt down on the central electrode to virtually no protrusion (but they were fairly old). Test drive gives no issues and car is fine all following day. Is problem solved? No! Next day car is needed for a run from Milton Keynes to Wembly Arena. Of course, now we need it it starts playing up in the first 10 mins and we experience similar problems to last time. EPC light comes on, stalling issues, surging and generally mucking about all the way there.
Restarting the engine on the ignition key seems to reset the EPC issue. Then EPC light comes on again and problems resume. On the way back though no problems at all! Also this morning 15 miles to work, and 15 miles back no problems except occasionally seemed to be holding back slightly (virtually imperceptible though). Something tells me this Issue 3 is related to Issue 1 but I can't be certain.

My hesitancy at putting the car into the dealer is that they may boringly insist on fixing (or me fixing) the EGR valve issue first which I believe is in all probablility completely unrelated. Secondly this problem is pretty intermittent a present and there is a good chance it won't occur when in the garage (of course it won't). Thirdly my dealership is about 10 miles in the wrong direction and I need my car for work. I want to avoid racking up a load of costs etc. I may have to wait until it goes fully bad before I can reliably track it down with certainty.

Has anyone experienced the same issue(s) or have any advice?

On another point, so far I have not been able to source a fault code diagnostic tool or workshop manual (even Haines) for this car. Any suggestions on obtaining these at reasonable cost would also be welcomed.

[DSG4ME]

To start with I would replace the fuel and air filter's and run a good inj cleaner at double strength through the tank, I would also change petrol station's and run the tank down low before dropping in the inj cleaner with some fresh fuel, this will mix the two nicely and you should get a good clense, you might also want to check the clutch out, if it's sticking and you aren't getting full friction this could indicate the clutch is on the way out, a test is to keep the handbrake on, 1st gear and feel for the bite point, if it's high up the chances are the clutch is worn out, if it bites positive and near halfway up it's fine, hth.

I would get a new egr valve myself, even though it's seemed fine for 3 years it will still be coked up, and a blockage can spell running troubles


Cheapish diagnostic machine is an Autel one, you get them from eBay, just under or around £100 or £250 buys the Rosstech lead and software.

[potshot]

It might be my old age creeping in but do petrol engines have injectors nowadays?

You might get some diagnostic help from here https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/s...User-Locations

[Crasher]

It might be my old age creeping in but do petrol engines have injectors nowadays?

Yes they certainly do.


Finsteigle, I had one in the other day that was losing power and it was due to the stripped teeth on the EGR drive cog. You need to start by getting someone to talk to the black boxes.

[Finsteigle]

Thanks for your responses

DS4ME - Thanks for the tips. Don't see this as an issue solved by injector cleaner. The cutting out is instant and feels like someone has switched off the ignition. Air and Fuel filters have been replaced reasonably recently.
EGR Valve probably is coked up since it never opens! - see my post
Clutch - relevance? Is new anyway

Potshot - I have searched the diagnostic pages -no help I'm afraid

Crasher - Just to be clear, all engine power is lost (as the engine has effectively stalled) and the engine will not recatch even while coasting in gear until restarted on the key. EGR valve is not operating admittedly (see 2 in my post) but as I have said I feel this is a red herring and not likely to cause problems of the magnitude I am experiencing.

I will probably have to wait for whatever it is to die before I find out the cause. It it starts mucking about consistently I might take it in for a diagnostic test. Otherwise I am probably wasting my time. Still hoping to find someone who has solved the exact same issues.

Typically, the car has been fine since my original post! It is probably biding its time until I have a plane-to-catch/job-interview/theatre-tickets situation!

[potshot]

Thanks for your responses

Potshot - I have searched the diagnostic pages -no help I'm afraid

The purpose of the link was to show you those forum members who have diagnostic equipment (VAG COM) so you could contact one of them nearest to you who would help probably for beer tokens!

P.S. there are two members on here who are technically very knowledgeable and capable, one of them is Martin1810 and the other is Crasher........................

[DSG4ME]

I'm thinking you have a dodgy sensor myself now, most likely a cam or crank one, these totally shut down an engine when they go, or it could also be the lambda one in the exhaust or perhaps the coil pack and plugs, this would be my chief suspect tbh, if it's got wet or simply breaking down you will lose the spark and hence the engine will cut out, plus the 1.8 engines had coil issue's, as said earlier you really need a reading or it's simply guess work.