Battery Message & Cold Weather

[vwawudi]

^^^
Hey A8, I've looked at your flickr pics and can't figure out what mods you've made. VCDS noob I confess. Have you fitted LEDs to your ride?

[a8 tech]

Sorry, there for another thread for dis and cruise retro fit
I have retro fitted rear led for a B8 A4 saloon

[theblacksurge]

I hooked my car upto a VCDS today. Checked my battery readings against the screenshots earlier in the post.
They are roughly the same but with one exception. The Battery Capacity (actual/available) is showing as 0 Ah. Both before and after engine start.

Also I have the fault code: 03041 - Energy Management Active

Can anybody enlighten me further?

[a8 tech]

0 ah in mvb 20 zone 3 means

Battery internal resistance referred to theoretical internal resistance
Tappable charge in Ah
The higher the number, the better the battery condition

so the battery is very poor

now the shut off stage needs to be clarified with ambient readings etc this can be found by listing the full fault code and all the information, also list mvb block 21

Can I ask if you have concert or symphony radio fitted to this vehicle?

[theblacksurge]

I have the Concert radio. These were the values I logged earlier;


Address 19: CAN Gateway (8T0 907 468 H)
16:36:36 Group 018: Power Supply (Battery)
14.800 V Battery Voltage
4.0 A Battery Current
3.0°C Battery Temp. (Estimate)
5.0°C Battery Temp. (Ambience)
16:36:36 Group 019: Power Supply (Battery)
63.0 % Battery State of Charge (SOC)
10.0 % Battery State (as shown in MMI)
64.0 % Battery Aging (derived fr. Load)
113.0 % Battery Aging (derived fr. Output)
Sunday,26,December,2010,16:37:33:04075
VCDS Version: Release 10.6.2
Data version: 20101123

16:37:30 Group 020: Power Supply (Battery)
4.2 mOhm Internal Battery Resistance (actual)
3.0 mOhm Internal Battery Resistance (stan.)
0 Ah Battery Capacity (actual/available)
12.50 V Quiescent Voltage
16:37:30 Group 021: Power Supply
Inactive Idle Speed Increase
Inactive Fresh Air Blower Reduction
StatCurStg 0 Quiescent Current Stage (actual)
Yes Auxiliary Heating activatable

16:37:30 Group 020: Power Supply (Battery)
4.2 mOhm Internal Battery Resistance (actual)
3.0 mOhm Internal Battery Resistance (stan.)
0 Ah Battery Capacity (actual/available)
12.50 V Quiescent Voltage

16:37:30 Group 021: Power Supply
Inactive Idle Speed Increase
Inactive Fresh Air Blower Reduction
StatCurStg 0 Quiescent Current Stage (actual)
Yes Auxiliary Heating activatable





Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels: 8T0-907-468.clb
Control Module Part Number: 8T0 907 468 H HW: 8T0 907 468 H
Component and/or Version: GW-BEM 5CAN H06 0091
Software Coding: 000303
Work Shop Code: WSC 06325 000 00000
VCID: 4686DB6148DB
1 Fault Found:
03041 - Energy Management Active
000 - -
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 01100000
Fault Priority: 7
Fault Frequency: 74
Reset counter: 69
Mileage: 63672 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2010.11.18
Time: 19:17:00

[a8 tech]

Firstly check via address 56 (radio) if the software version is lower than SW0310, if it is then its likely the tmc is active all the time as there is a fault with earlier software versions

Check whether the TA symbol is permanently shown on the mmi screen

If its 0310 or newer then we need to keep making sense of the readings found, I will say it looks like the battery has seen better days but is it because its being drained or just defective and deteriorating


The vcds log is also hard to read on a forum page


ok lets see http://www.ross-tech.com/vcds/tour/dtc_screen.html

Not all the info has transferred with vcds and vital battery shut off stage history is missing from group 21

The date the fault first started seems correct and it shows its occurring daily.

So if we can see what stage the manager is cutting in then it will tell us if there is a drain or if the battery is defective.

I suggest the battery is either recharged via a slow 24 hour recovery charge or replaced due to the aging readings displayed

[a8 tech]

This is the kind of information needed

No-load voltage underrange :
12.5 V voltage underrange:
2010-12-20-08:27*05.7*01*00194*** so here 00194 is the DDDD = Duration in hours in which voltage underranged
2010-12-18-11:54*09.0*01**
2010-12-17-07:59*00.0*01**
2010-12-14-07:33*00.0*01**
2010-12-12-13:31*09.3*01**
2010-12-09-19:14*00.1*01**
2010-12-05-19:58*01.1*01**



Signal No-load voltage underrange :
12.2 V voltage underrange:
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00*00000***
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**


Signal No-load voltage underrange :
11.6 V voltage underrange:
2010-11-26-11:22*00.0*01*00000***
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**
2000-01-01-00:00*00.0*00**


Explanation:

JJJJ_MM_TT_hh_mm_DDDD_LLL_GGGGG

JJJJ = Year
MM = Month
TT = Day
hh = Hour
mm = Minute
DDDD = Duration in hours in which voltage underranged

When the battery voltage drops below 12.5 volts then it can not recuperate on its own and needs to be charged with the correct amp battery charger until its fully recovered

[jabicho]

Lets do it correctly, Info taken from own personal vas diagnostic
All vcds info in address 19


Check no load current before you do anything and the battery must be showing at least 12.6 volts unloaded engine off

Measured value block 023:
Vehicle no-load current in A

This needs to be between 20 and 50 MA, check it with an amp clamp
Turn off tmc and test after 2 hours for no load current drain on the battery
earth wire

If ok check check earth offset between engine earth and body earth

If this is ok proceed with alt testing etc in mvb's in address 19


Explanations:
The words in brackets indicate the possible measured values.
0 = Communication interrupted
1 = Communication OK
1-wire = Communication in 1-wire mode
SL = Sleep Indication = Control unit is ready to shut down (= sleep)
no readout = Measured value blank



Measured value block 006:
Communication status alternator (0 / 1)
Communication status battery sensor (0 / 1)
Communication status voltage stabiliser (0 / 1)
Vacant



Measured value block 014:
Alternator specified voltage *1)
Battery voltage
DF signal (Dynamic-Field, figure as % of alternator excitation)
Load response time (between 0 and 9 seconds, default: 0 seconds)

*1) When recuperation is active the alternator voltage may drop to 12.5 V.

Measured value block 015:
Alternator, electrical status (OK / not OK)
Alternator, mechanical status (OK / not OK)
Alternator, thermal status (OK / not OK)
Vacant

Measured value block 016:
Alternator type (OK / not OK)
OK = Alternator type known
not OK = Unknown alternator type fitted
Alternator manufacturer
Alternator size
Alternator controller

Measured value block 017:
Battery identified (OK / not OK)
OK = Adapted battery known
not OK = Adaption value not known
Battery manufacturer (0-7)
Battery size (0-15)
Battery recognition (yes / no)
yes = Battery disconnected, no = Battery connected

Measured value block 018:
Battery voltage
Battery current
Current from or into battery (-400A to +100A); positive current = alternator charging battery, negative current = battery delivering current = no battery charging by alternator *2)
Temperature estimate, battery
Battery sensor temperature

*2) Active recuperation may also cause negative battery current. In this case there is no defect in the alternator.

Measured value block 019:
Battery charge in %
Battery charge in %
Corresponding to readout on MMI Car menu
Battery ageing in %
Derived from charged (0 % = very poor battery condition, 100% = very good battery condition)
Battery ageing in %
Derived from power output (0 % = very poor battery condition, 100% = very good battery condition)

Measured value block 020:
Current battery internal resistance in m
Standardised battery internal resistance in m
Battery internal resistance referred to theoretical internal resistance
Tappable charge in Ah
The higher the number, the better the battery condition
Vacant

Measured value block 021:
Idle increase (inactive / stage 1 / stage 2)
Interior blower reduction (inactive / stage 1 / stage 2 / stage 3)
Activation only possible when engine running
No-load current shut-off stage (see 1)
Auxiliary heater activatable (yes/no)

1) Possible readouts:
No-load current shut-off stage 0 (=no no-load current shut-off stage active)
No-load current shut-off stage 1
No-load current shut-off stage 2
Transport mode
No-load current shut-off stage 5
No-load current shut-off stage 6

To add look for over voltage fault codes, these normally indicate a consumer internal defect such as dash insert !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

If the warning light comes on with no battery manager shut off stages listed or alt history then its most likely to be a defective dash insert

I would add you can check the voltage supplied from battery manager in address 17 (dash) when the fault occurs, this will pin point the issue

If the warning light is on and the dash mvb shows correct voltage received then its likely that the dash is defective if its under then this points to the gateway control unit/battery manger, again inputs and out puts are needed to make sure.Also further software revisions may be avaliable

I would also carry out a bench test of the battery to determine its condition

Lastly if all routes have been eliminated

I suggest the battery is replaced and encoded correctly

Warranty will not cover the replacement unless it can be proven that a defective consumer has drained the battery to a none serviceable state

Hi, A8 tech, that machine of yours looks quite impressive, does it give you that amount of info of all the modules in the car? Which VAS are you using?

[a8 tech]

Yes, vas pc version 18 oem not a clone

I use both vas and vcds, they both have there advantages but vas is more diagnostic were as vcds is a direct copy of vas without guided fault and guided functions plus function description.

Vcds has the long code helper which is excellent for encoding control units hence I use both.

I have other manufacturers software but nothing come close to these two, big outlay if your diy and in most situations vcds is sufficient with excellent backup from rosstech yahoo groups forum.

This forum gives direct access to Uwe and Sebastian for fully registered users

The only criticism I have with rosstech are the label files or lack of them

You can also buy a simulator version for very little money called gfs light, this is the software with function descriptions etc but without the hardware to connect to the vehicle, used in conjunction with vcds you can diagnose more accurately and have a reference for measured value blocks

[jabicho]

I see, does it also have flashing capabilities? I mean if you can use it to update software radio , for example, or to flash the battery monitoring system that our cars have...