Turbo problem

Right hello to everyone I am new and I've got a problem. I have a 2004 passat tdi 130 bhp highline with 86,000 miles, I was driving on the motorway at about 80 put my foot down to overtake and got very little power, I stopped tured the engine off and started again the car revved fine until about 3200 rpm then the power went again. the emisions light came on the dash and the display pannel said EMISIONS WORKSHOP! the power was fine until 3200 rpm then the power died i kept my foot on the gas as the power dropped off and loads of smoke came out the back. I took it to a vw garage straight away, the put it on the fault finding thing and told me the turbo needs replacing and the total cost including parts and labour is a reasonable £1500 (whatever!!).
Has anyone else had this problem and wat did you do, is the dealer havin me on?? i dont know
If i've left anythink out just let me know by the way i have only had the car two weeks!! Great
many thanks in advance,
Chris.:mad:
PS i'm not sure if its a B5 sorry

The ******* trying to sell you a new turbo when you dont need one is unfortunately a very common practice.

Although it is remotely possible that your turbo is damaged in some way, it probably just needs a MAF, or the VNT mechanism cleaning, or a new boost control valve.

Before now dealers have sold new turbo's to people when the problem could be solved with a 50 pence piece of boost control tubing, or simply re-attaching a hose.

Search for 'overboost' problems in the forum, there are only a few common things that cause your symptoms.

After driving it after getting it back, iwaited until it was warm (the warning light now removed at the dealers) I booted it it first and it reved up to the red line then in second it dropped off at 4,000 rpm then 3rd at 3,800 ish the turbo whistles i know this isnt norm as i had a fabia vrs i know it spins up when idleing but not the way this is i can hear it over the engine. I dont know why they said its ****** if it went all the way to the red line no problem, please help i just bought a house and cant afford it,
cheers Chris..

It sounds like a pipe has popped off, and the pressure that the turbo is producing is leaking out as a big hiss instead of going into the intake manifold and making the car go faster. The black smoke with so symptoms, strongly suggests this. The air has already been measured by the MAF, but is not finding it's way into the combustion chamber. This means that the amount of fuel calculated is based on the air quantity which is hissing out, so lots of smoke.

You need to go to a better garage, or follow the pipes with a torch (the large 3" dia air pipes). You may have to remove the front bumper to get to them. :mad: but if you have a haynes manual this isn't too hard at all.

I suspect the dealer employee will put you a new turbo on, put the pipe back on, send you on your way happy and £1500 poorer and then sell your ok turbo on ebay for £200.

Little trick to try when looking for an air leak like yours is to spray some carb cleaner on all the joints on the inlet pipe if there is a leak it sucks the cleaner in and the revs will rise

I would not spray carb cleaner to check for leaks on a diesel there is a possibility of damaging it ,as with easy start the engine will knock. Is your engine check light on?If so do you know what codes were given when the garage scanned it?I'm pretty sure there is not a code that says-TURBO NAAFED.without the codes it is difficult to pinpoint the problem as the turbo is controled by various sensors

He never give me the code. ill phone up and ask in the mean time ill start lookin and taking all the covers off and let you know what i find oh yeah the light has been reset now and its not come back on

Ive had a look and can't find any leaks but i did find that the actuator was full of oil although it moved freely. i took sum pics of oil coming from a small hole the oil gets spat out when the engine is revved there is a hole on the other side where the oil is cummin out

I just went to check my car for comparison. I thought at first there was meant to be a pipe connected to that hole you talk of, the one you can see in the picture, but there is not.
I'd say the EGR is knackered.

what is an egr im not very good with abbreviations and do you think this is the reason for the turbo problem

exhaust gas recycling valve I would tell you to block it off to see if the problem goes away but I got hauled over for the carb cleaner comment:p I ran my 2.8 paj with it blocked off for about 40000 miles without an issue but I know nothing of vw set up but i'm sure if you just do it to test it it should be fine

how is it blocked off??

just found this

another reader explained why diesel turbochargers sometimes fail: "The Exhaust Gas Recirculation valve should open to allow carbon dioxide (which acts as a cooling gas) into the combustion chambers when the engine is under load (more than 30 per cent boost). This allows the combustion chamber temperature to drop and thus the temperature of the exhaust gases. If it sticks in the closed position the exhaust gas temperature will rise, causing the turbo bearings to fail and eventually allowing engine oil into the induction system. This can cause the engine to run on its crankcase oil until it is either stalled or goes bang. Problems with EGR valves are also often the cause of rough running when the valve is stuck in the open position as well. In several cases turbos have blown but the EGR valve has not been replaced. Inevitably the new turbo unit will not last long." The most common cause of the EGR valve sticking is dirty, sludged or otherwise contaminated engine oil.
this could explain the oil on the egr but why didnt the ******* pick it up

and this too

VW Passat lacking in power,plugged in & retrieved these codes,any ideas anybody please?

17964 charge pressure control (intermittent)

17564 intake manifold pressure sender (present)

17569 intake manifold temperature sender (present)

Thanks in advance.

Sorry forgot to mention it is a 52 plate 1.9 TDI (130bhp)
Hi,

Have you checked the turbo wastegate valve very common on VW & Audi`s causes lack of power when seized.

Phil
robski
Post subject: Posted: Aug 13, 2006 - 02:33 PM
Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 62

no mate i have not,all i have done is check for codes.It has been into a garage&had a boost pressure sensor fitted apparantly.
When the lad turns the engine off he reckons he hears an air leak from around his brake servo area?he also reckons when he pulls the pipe off from the waste gate there is no vaccum??

robski
Post subject: Posted: Aug 13, 2006 - 03:59 PM
Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 62
checked the waste gate and it appears to be free!lifted the rod upwards with a screw driver.


robski
Post subject: Posted: Sep 02, 2006 - 06:49 PM

Joined: Jul 03, 2005
Posts: 62
for those who are interested i finally got to look at it myself&sorted the problem today!

after checking everything on the boost side from wastegate actuating valve to the boost pressure control valve,by the way you can swop the EGR control valve for the boost control valve because they are the same to eliminate if its the boost control valve,to eventually finding a vacuum pipe disconnected along the bulkhead.

This was the hiss from around the servo area(intermittent),so the pipe must have only just in the plastic connector,connected back up&runs&pulls like a good un&no DTC's stored !

If you are thinking of changing the EGR, they are about £100. Check out GSF or ECP online.

does anyone know a good specialist in liverpool or lincoln area (i work away) to try and sort this problem out I got told today the oil that is coming out of the egr is because the turbo is knacked in the first place and thats why the oil is in the induction system. And is it safe to drive I have to drive 360 round trip and i dont know weather to take my other car. The fella i went to said some people are told there turbo's are gone and just keep on drivin it for years! I'm off work from wednesday so i'm gunna leave it with someone so they can figure it out but would appreciate some advice on where to take it. I'm handy when it comes to fixing cars just not very good finding the problem espeacially when its so complicated,
Thanks in advance,
Chris.

The oil that seeps through your turbo oil seals will eventually blow along the boost pipes, through the intercooler and along to the EGR.

This does not necessarily mean that anything is wrong with your turbo, all the higher bhp PD engines seem to do it.

It is a simple job to drain the lower boost pipe (maybe flush the intercooler on a PD130) and clean the EGR valve.

The best thing that you can do is change your oil on a regular basis, and make sure that you are using the correct oil, which is essential!

Personally, if you have no particulate filter, i would ditch the 'long life' oil type servicing if you use it, and change my oil every 4-6 months.

I would examine the very limited range of oils that you can use, and go for one that is a little more viscous (thicker) at operating temp's. This should help to reduce turbo seepage.

What ini said.
The mechanic who told you the turbo is shot could easily be lacking knowledge or trying to get money out of you.

thicker as in higher number say 4w40 instead of 0w30? i got some fuchs 0 w 40 the guy in GSF said it was what VW put in the engines in the factory dunno weather he was fibbin tho.

The thing is the turbo is still a bit funny not boosting properly I've got new oil and a filter and i'm gunna clean everything out and see what happens. oh and its still whistleing but im getting it on the ramp in work to do the oil so i'll have a good luck around.

Hi

Many years ago I had a 1988 Passat 1600 TD which developed a whistle I think the problem was a maifold gasket not the turbo !

Bringing this message up to date I have a a 2002 130 TDI Estate which has a jerky accelerstion up to 30mph but OK on tickover and above 30mph.

However when climbing a hill at low speed it loses power and puffs grey smoke I also notice a loud Hiss like an airline if I leave the window down.

I live on the Wirral and would be interested if you find a decent diesel specialist in the Merseyside area

Regards

Denny57

latest.... I changed the oil which took me hours as i couldn't get the filter cap off aarrgghh. anyway the oil that came out was really black and glupy. I took most of the pipes off around the intercooler and to be honest they weren't that bad a bit too oily but not as bad i a thought they were going to be. I'm not sure if the whistle is normal I heard an other passat yesterday that seemed to have a whistle. I do have a hiss tho when accelerating and i read a previous thread saying that i pipe had come lose by the bulk head i cant find it does anyone know exactly where it is??? There is also a hiss when the engine is tured off coming from the same place then it goes as if all the air has come out,
Cheers

The hiss could just be your aircon compressor, mine does it too, and a turbo whistle is normal (and very cool!). If the hiss is apparent when accelerating is still sounds like an air leak in the boost system. TDi oil is always very black but certainly shouldn't be gloopy. Sounds like it was past it's best.

CHeers

For the info

I have spoken to AW Diesels in Darwin today very nice helpful peole but they just build engines

They think my problem is a hose leak

Also spoke to another local mechanic whor works on modern diesels and he thinks it is a hose leak he is going to have a look tomorrow

Will report back if any success

Good luck with the Whistle !

Denny57

did you have any luck??

Still havent found the problem, I was messing about earlier on with the EGR valve taking the vacum pipe off and when the engine had just been revved the EGR valve made a 'tink' noise as if it were working but if the engine was left to idle for a while the vacum was lost in the pipe and it no-longer made a 'tink' sound when the pipe was pulled off.

Also i pulled the pipe off the round thing on top of the turbo (dunno what this is called) and the turbo whistle stopped!!! Is this strange??

When the vacum pipe was pulled off the EGR valve the turbo seemed to spin up, I've checked all the pipes and cannot find anythink wrong.

On the plus side my dad is an AA recovery man and he is on the a course where there is about 20 AA patrol men on it so i'm going to drive down to see them because one of them must have a clue whats wrong, I'll report back to whst they said but if anyone has any more thoughts on what I just said please let me know,

Thanks,
Chris.

I have a 52 plate 130 TDI Sport Estate with 141,000 mile on it.

I have had it from new and only had one problem previously. All sorted lurking here :) (Wet rear foot well from crap by pollen filter)

Anyway, two days ago I had the whooshing of air that has been described here with the lack of power also. It happens about 1500-2000 RPM and has got louder and worse over the past few days (and 800 miles). It is constant when using the turbo not intermittent.

Now when I drive it (with the turbo in) I get the noise (very loud with the window open) and it hesitates to deliver the power - almost like it is cutting out for a brief moment. Then loads of grey/black smoke out of the back and then off. The smoke disappears then.

Anyway after reading this and a few other posts I tried to find the leak and the illusive L-pipe that always has the 4" split in it (where exactly is it!) as I am convinced it is an air leak.

I took off the inter cooler's 90 degree pipe (the small one at the top) to look at the pipes below and they all looked OK. However the inside of the pipe was pretty oily/sludgy and around the housing that it goes into (whatever that is but chrisvrscrx has some pictures of it in an earlier post), that was oily too. As too was the connection down at the front bottom.

As it is very loud I am assuming it is coming from a BIG pipe rather than the little vacuum hoses. Sound reasonable?

Anyone fixed theirs yet?

Maybe not related but when I start the car I get a lot of smoke out the back for about 20 seconds, then it is fine (well used to be before the whooshing/hiss). Sometimes it revs at about 1200 RPM when starting too before settling down and does it occasionally when idling (normal engine temp) too. Thought that might be the air flow meter.

I service every 10,000 rather than variable by the way. I will read out the codes later and post them if they are of use.

Thanks

I went to see my dad's AA friend, he was pretty useless to be honest, he did read the fault codes tho and came up with this one;


P0229 Turbo Underboost

Can anyone suggest anything???

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chrisvrscrx

P0229 Turbo Underboost

---

Makes me think about leaks in the boost pipes and vanes sitting too closed all the time.

Thats what i thought when i switch the engine off there is a hiss coming from the servo i have looked all around it and cannot find where its coming from has anyone ever had it before??

Check your MAP.

Also check the boost control valve and associated tubes for blockages/leaks.

just remind me what the map is there is that many abbreviations
thanks

Manifold Air Pressure/charge pressure sensor.

I think its located just after the intercooler on a PD130.

Hi Chrivrscrx and All

I've been away from my emails for a week but just before I went away I got a second opinion from another mechanic and loh and behold he found a botched up repair to the Intercooler hose which I had replaced a few weeks ago.

Instead of purchasing a 47p Hose Clip the connection between the hose and the Intercooler the two have been joined with a piece of what looks like rainwater pipe a tar like goo substance and several tie wraps !

I have since purchased the correct clip and the new mechanic will fit it tomorrow

Will let you know the results

My previous mechanic has some explaining to do

I also paid him to clean out the injector pump and injectors but apparently a person on another message board assures me there's no such machine in existance that will fit the VW PD injectors ??

Denny :confused:

Driving before i decided to give the car a thrash to see if the turbo problem had got any worse. I it was going better than before then i heard a plip then no power, I thought it hadf gone into limp mode so I turned the engine off waited a bit and turned it back on, it still had no power, then the engine started to run away with its self i turned it of but it kept running at high rev's with the engine sounding rough i Jumped out coz i thought the thing was going to blow up. There was thick white smoke coming from the exhuast, I ran back to the car and popped the bonnet could see much then to try and disconnect the battery but i couldnt, so I jumped in wacked it into gear and stalled it, dunno why i didn't do this before but i shat myself. Anyway the car wont start and I think some of the turbo might of went into the engine :zx11:
Any suggestions...... I really can't afford an expensive repair bill, I could probably strech to a new turbo at a push,
Please help,
Thanks in advance.

Could have been running on crank oil, if so your turbo seals are not good.

Have you been seeing a lot of smoke lately?

Did the turbo detonate?

There are plenty of VNT-17 'VA' turbo's on ebay, most for less than £200.

Oh dear, not good news.
The engine has almost grenaded itself!
You are very lucky to have stalled it and saved having to buy a new engine. Usually when this happens the engine runs away and destroys itself. If this happens on the motorway it could of course be fatal as you accelerate uncontrollably.

The engine sucked in engine oil and burnt it. It either came from the intercooler or the turbo seal. Either way the car is going to need to be towed to a garage and be stripped down to assess the damage. If the turbo didn't disintegrate you might only need a new turbo and to have the engine checked and cleaned internally. If it's worse you may need new conrods, pistons, crank, valves, valves stems etc.........

This is likely to cost at least a thousand to sort, and if the damage is extensive you'll need a whole new engine.

Don't try to start it.
Really sorry this has happened, but it will need to be towed and stripped.
Bummer.

not noticed any excess smoke other than the problems listed above but bad turbo seals would explain oil coming from the egr valve, i think it detonate but not sure, i dont know if any of the turbo went into the engine, and dont know why the engine would not switch off

I now know why the engine keptrunning, because it was buring oil from the turbo seals. Am I right in thinking that if the turbo is not damaged i.e the blades are ok the engine will be undamaged? I just spoke to a VW specialist who told me just to get a new turbo then try it, then I will find out if there is any engine damage rarther then stripping it all down and the engine could be fine.

The engine does run on the oil and it ignites it like a diesel via compression that's why it runs on after you turn the key off. If it was me I would remove the turbo and look for any missing blades etc if it's intact I'd would just fit another turbo. If parts are missing I would remove the inlet manifold,intercooler and pipes and see what's lurking inside and give it a good clean out your have to do this anyway it's going to be full of oil. After that I would start the car again with the turbo hose disconnected so it runs normaly aspirated see how it runs this will tell you if you have any internal damage.