Tyres destroyed on inside wall

Hi, can anyone shed any light on this one?

My car is going through tyres every 6 mths (10k miles). Each time it's the inside wall which is de-laminating/wearing down to the breads, there's still a good 4+mm of tread left and they wear evenly. They are the 9 spoke RS4 alloys (but I suspect they are third party copies as the groove on the shoulder of the spoke doesn 't run down the length of the spoke. (?))

I've gone through 3 pairs on the front and a set on the rear. Each time I've had the tracking checked, and had 4 wheel alignment done last year: this was miles out originally. But very minor adjustments since.

I've tried differing the tyres pressures and avoiding the speed bumps on the way home (the square ones that don't cover the full width of road). I've had a good look round the suspension etc and found nothing untoward.

Has anyone got any suggestions, it's driving me crazy:zx11: Cheers.

Buckled wheels maybe.....

what tyres are u useing

Go some where else more competent for your alignment.

Mine was doing the same, 3 - 4 mm of tread over most of the tyre, then on the very inside edge was showing the cords!!!, i had a 4 wheel alignment done at the main audi dealership, £89 all in including any adjustments.

They found the toe was out on the fronts and also the camber angle on the left front wheel was out (this was also the one with the worse wear) its about 0.6 degrees out of limit, and they have put it down to either bent top ally arms or a bent hub carrier, not drastic as i can do both myself, but i am going to run it for a while and see how the tyres wear, afterall the toe angle was also a long way out.

Have yours checked again by a competent garage, my car also does a fair bit of tight manouvering, in and out of driveway, parking spaces etc, this could also have something to do with inside tyre wear.

Thanks for the replies.

I'm running Goodyear Eagle F1's 225 40R18. Used to have budget tyres but went for the Goodyears last time to see if it was just poor quality tyres.

(rhencullen1989) -Did the dealership actually find a fault with the top arm or hub? Sounds very similar to what I'm experiencing, having the alignment done on Tuesday with another set of fronts I'll ask them to check the arms and bushes etc. while its on the ramps.

I go to Apex in P'boro, after very good feedback. Plus I think its the only place here that can do 4 wheel alignment.

Cheers.

Strange this, that's the second time in a week someone has pre-empted the forum with an issue I'm having too.
My fronts had worn the outer corner of the tyre one inch or so. Totally bald, so I dropped it into ATS where they stuck a laser alignment jig on the front and announced it in spec. While we had the car on the ramp they showed me the inner edges worn to the threads. Not good.
These are Michelin Sport pilot II's and the pair on the front had been new on the back about a year ago and were moved to the front when I bought new 'front' tyres about 3 months ago. So most of their life (20k miles) they've been on the back. I initially changed that pair on the rear because the outer edge had gone bald, but didn't know the history of the tyres up to that point so wasn't sure where that wear had come from.

In the last week or so with the wet weather I've noticed that near full lock in car parks for example the car is literally skidding round corners - you can really hear and feel the car failing to keep the line. It just feels worse these days than it has before. On the open road it has no issues with handling/grip at all. I'm gonna drop it into my local Audi guys next week if only to make them reset the service clock which has been dropping a 100 miles (but still 419 days) from the next due date every time I turn the ignition key. Time to go fixed service intervals I think.

Mark.

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Originally Posted by rhencullen1989

Mine was doing the same, 3 - 4 mm of tread over most of the tyre, then on the very inside edge was showing the cords!!!, i had a 4 wheel alignment done at the main audi dealership, £89 all in including any adjustments.

They found the toe was out on the fronts and also the camber angle on the left front wheel was out (this was also the one with the worse wear) its about 0.6 degrees out of limit, and they have put it down to either bent top ally arms or a bent hub carrier, not drastic as i can do both myself, but i am going to run it for a while and see how the tyres wear, afterall the toe angle was also a long way out.

Have yours checked again by a competent garage, my car also does a fair bit of tight manouvering, in and out of driveway, parking spaces etc, this could also have something to do with inside tyre wear.

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Generally the Kwik fit type places can not do proper 4 wheel alignment. However apart from suspension specialists, a good quality crash repair centre should have the tools to check and alter wheel alignment.

Regardless of where you go it's important to receive a before and after printout and compare these to the spec for your car.

I have a a4 avant tdi sport which wore the front tyres off on the inside. About 30mm was down to the cords! Had 4 wheel alinement, all ok .MOT 'd all ok. Still a mystery:(

Just come back from having the 4 wheel alignment done. Not far off minor adjustment on front, otherwise spot on. Also had a look around for any damaged bits whilst on ramps, none found.

On the plus side the fitter is going to consult with goodyear rep, might get free replacement tyres so they can disect them and find any manufacturing fault. Watch this space!

Hi Sumpy, another strange thing is mine also had the Goodyear Eagle F1 tyres on, i know they have done over 10K, as i said before the backs (which are now in my garage) and the fronts both had about 4mm of tread left on them, it was just the very inner edge of the fronts that were worn right down, left worse than right cords showing on left, just bald on right.

Audi don't know what part is causing the camber to be out of tollerance by 0.6 degrees but they suspect either top arms or hub carrier is slightly bent. They don't know which, so its a process of elimination, an expensive one at that!!!!!!!!!

I have just replaced all 4 tyres (its a quattro) with Goodyear Eagle gsd3's, so it will be interesting to see how they wear, although like i said in a previous post, the front toe angle was also out on both fronts.

My intention is to do the arms first (after xmas) as they are easier than the hub carrier, then if it's still out, it will be the hub carrier, i hope Audi do me a good deal on 4 wheel alignment as it could be back twice more!!!!!!!!!:aargh4:

Sumpy did you get a before and after printout ?

Martin- yes I got a before and after printout. Haven't got the figures to hand at the moment, will post them later if your interested in the spec's (?)

Have noticed it's still sounds like it's scrubbing on slow tight turns though. Makes me wonder if Audi have got the spec right.
Used to work with a chap who had the new shape Jag- took it to a Jag specialist who adjusted his tracking slightly more than the quoted amount for better driving alignment (from experience).

Still easily sorted- don't turn so tight!:biglaugh:

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Originally Posted by Sumpy467

Just come back from having the 4 wheel alignment done. Not far off minor adjustment on front, otherwise spot on. Also had a look around for any damaged bits whilst on ramps, none found.

On the plus side the fitter is going to consult with goodyear rep, might get free replacement tyres so they can disect them and find any manufacturing fault. Watch this space!

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If two have done it and others have reported it it's not a manufacturing fault, but just a characteristic of wear of that type of tyre - be very surprised if Goodyear are interested!

As others have said, not all 4 wheel laser alignment places are created equal, nor is all kit.

I had mine done at Protyre in Cambridge and it took nearly an hour (and that was after they had cleaned and freed up all the suspension components while the wheels were off and being changed. The system they used was real-time so you could see mfrs designed spec along with where the wheels were in relation to this and they then adjusted until it was as bang-on as possible.

Might be worth trying somewhere else...

cheers,
Dan.

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Originally Posted by Sumpy467

Martin- yes I got a before and after printout. Haven't got the figures to hand at the moment, will post them later if your interested in the spec's (?)

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Yeah, it would be good to see them particularly the camber figures.

Be even more interesting if somebody has the Audi specs to compare them with.

I have the Audi specs for a 2003 - 2006 sportline quattro GmbH from 8E-2-025688

FRONT CAMBER-: MIN -1 degree 12 min. MAX - 0 degrees 22 min.

FRONT TOE-: MIN 0 degrees 8 min. MAX 0 degrees 12 min.



REAR CAMBER-: MIN -1 degree 50 min. MAX - 0 degrees 50 min.

REAR TOE-: MIN 0 degrees 8 min. MAX 0 degrees 15 min.


Mine were all put correct except front left camber which is -1 degree 52 minutes. This is 40 minutes (or 0.66 degrees) over limit. Suspect bent upper arms or hub carrier.

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so please keep us updated if anybody finds out causes. I too have gone through 7 tyres in under a year, all worn on the insides or blown out. The scary thing is how difficult it is to notice with it being on the inside edge. My car is also on 19"s so i know how expensive it is to replace the goodyears!

I've had 4wd alignment checked, camber, toe in whatever that is and they made a few slight adjustments. Just had suspension and the underneath checked in my last service and was told all is ok there.

Since then one tyre tore on the inside edge BUT i think (hope) it was already punctured as it had a piece of metal in it.

Maybe the 4wd checks have sorted things, maybe not. I've only done 2000 miles on these tyres so will know in another 2000 or so as theyve only been lasting 4000miles a pair!

Just a thought does your car seem to crunch the tyres at low speeds when turning or setting off from a standstill? (feels a bit like ABS on snow) Mine's either got a fault or maybe that's just a trait of the quattro system.

Like i say please keep us informed if any solutions are found and i'll do likewise!

Cheers

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Originally Posted by nanafagis

I'll be keeping an eye on this thread so please keep us updated if anybody finds out causes. I too have gone through 7 tyres in under a year, all worn on the insides or blown out. The scary thing is how difficult it is to notice with it being on the inside edge. My car is also on 19"s so i know how expensive it is to replace the goodyears!

I've had 4wd alignment checked, camber, toe in whatever that is and they made a few slight adjustments. Just had suspension and the underneath checked in my last service and was told all is ok there.

Since then one tyre tore on the inside edge BUT i think (hope) it was already punctured as it had a piece of metal in it.

Maybe the 4wd checks have sorted things, maybe not. I've only done 2000 miles on these tyres so will know in another 2000 or so as theyve only been lasting 4000miles a pair!

Just a thought does your car seem to crunch the tyres at low speeds when turning or setting off from a standstill? (feels a bit like ABS on snow) Mine's either got a fault or maybe that's just a trait of the quattro system.

Like i say please keep us informed if any solutions are found and i'll do likewise!

Cheers

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7 tryes and all checks out have u checked the wheels fitment iv had this on aftermarket wheels b4 i did all that u guys have done then put my 17's oem back on had the wheels checked and its was a fault on the wheel where it bolts up kjust a thought

The scuffing you are experiencing on near full lock i.e when pulling out of your driveway etc is caused by the tyres sort of scuffing/skipping, i personally don't think this is a problem and is to do with the sheer width of the tyres (mine are standard 235) i think you will notice it more when the weather is colder like today (i put this down to the rubber being stiffer when colder) also it seems worse when the tyres are fairly worn compared to new ones.

I know several friends who's audi a4's do this and they think the same as me.

I also think that a lot of this slow hard turning could be something to do with the inside wear, but i could be proved wrong. My wife drives my quattro and its mainly used for small journeys and lots of parking! (mainly at expensive shopping centres!!!!!!!!!!:biglaugh:)

Mine's also scrubbing on full lock too!! but doesn't always do it!! I turn a full hard right out of the car park at work everyday. It seems to be worse when wet, but doesn't always seem consistantly as bad each time and even when wet each time too, sometimes it doesn't do it!!

Also got alot of wear on the front tyres, mainly on the outsides. Has been laser aligned twice with the same set of tyres.

I also have a clunk on the front too. I've changed the dampers all-round, upper arms and tie-rod ends. I took the bottom arms off the other week to check them and they were fine, although I did find the sub frame main bolt was hanging out by 1.5 inches!!!! Tightened it back up expecting my clunk to go, but no!! I do think the grip and handling isn't good compared to my previous cars (Peugeot, Rover, MG and BMW) Maybe the multi-wishbone set-up is just over kill and causes more problems than creating a good handling car!?

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Originally Posted by rhencullen1989

The scuffing you are experiencing on near full lock i.e when pulling out of your driveway etc is caused by the tyres sort of scuffing/skipping, i personally don't think this is a problem and is to do with the sheer width of the tyres (mine are standard 235) i think you will notice it more when the weather is colder like today (i put this down to the rubber being stiffer when colder) also it seems worse when the tyres are fairly worn compared to new ones.

I know several friends who's audi a4's do this and they think the same as me.

I also think that a lot of this slow hard turning could be something to do with the inside wear, but i could be proved wrong. My wife drives my quattro and its mainly used for small journeys and lots of parking! (mainly at expensive shopping centres!!!!!!!!!!:biglaugh:)

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I dropped mine in at Audi and to be fair they checked it over for free and announced that it looked 'fairly normal'. The tyres have done 20k miles, a mix of UK and French Motorways and Kent country roads (not the best maintained it has to be said). Yes the scrubbing is really bad - but the tyres are worn and it has been really wet so I've been noticing it more recently. I'm feeling a bit paranoid that there's an issue that isn't easy to resolve, but then I do have a habit of pushing the car hard round corners and roundabouts here - if only because I can!

So I'm going to put new tyres on the front and monitor them closely.
So the next question is: which tyres? Are some better at coping with this sort of wear than others. I have to say I've been impressed by the grip on the Michelin PS2 I've got on at the moment but not so happy with the wear (and price). I know that wear and grip are mutually exclusive but is there a better 'all round' tyre?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by rhencullen1989

I have the Audi specs for a 2003 - 2006 sportline quattro GmbH from 8E-2-025688

FRONT CAMBER-: MIN -1 degree 12 min. MAX - 0 degrees 22 min.

FRONT TOE-: MIN 0 degrees 8 min. MAX 0 degrees 12 min.



REAR CAMBER-: MIN -1 degree 50 min. MAX - 0 degrees 50 min.

REAR TOE-: MIN 0 degrees 8 min. MAX 0 degrees 15 min.


Mine were all put correct except front left camber which is -1 degree 52 minutes. This is 40 minutes (or 0.66 degrees) over limit. Suspect bent upper arms or hub carrier.

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As promised the alignment figures:

Front Camber Spec left (min -0deg55' max-0deg05') adjusted -4' to -1deg15' :(
Front Camber Spec right (same) adjusted nil to -0deg45' ;)

Front toe left (min 0deg8' max 0deg12') adjusted -4' to 0deg13' :(
Front toe right (same) adjusted +0deg7' to 0deg9'

Rear Camber left (min-1deg50' max -0deg50') adjusted nil to -1deg28' ;)
Rear Camber right (same) adjusted -0deg7' to -1deg24' ;)

Rear toe left (min 0deg8' max 0deg15') adjusted +0deg3' to 0deg10' ;)
Rear toe right (same) adjusted +0deg1' to 0deg18' :(


Note these figures are for A4, 01-03 quat 8E-2-025687

I notice writing these figures in that the front left camber is 20' out after adjustment, will have to ask the fitter the reason for this:confused:

The other two (front left toe and rear right toe) are within spec total however, they are on the limit. I suspect it's a case of adjust one angle and it effects several other angles- chasing ones tail! but as I say they are within overall. Will ask fitter about these too, especially as I expressed I'm having problems.

Just found this on tinternet, interesting reading.

http://www.isham-research.co.uk/quat...alignment.html

All,
A bit long winded, but bear with me......

You might want to consider ball joints and bushes, bottom and top arms. When sat static, these will most likely sit where they are supposed to be, but on the move it would be a different story. Front wheel drive will pull the wheels in together on the gas and force them out on the brakes. You only need one bush or one ball joint to set the dynamics off and over the milages your are talking about it is enough to cause premature wear to the tyre either specifically to the outside edge (acceleration) or inside edge (braking)....or both.

With the arms, its important to have them tightened to the sub frame with the weight on the wheels, the reason for this is the actual rotation of the arm, as the suspension rises and falls, rotates through the bush rubber....if these are tightened up with weight off the wheels they will sit rotated around from there ideal position. The top arms should naturally sit about 47mm down when off the hub (a little less for sports/lowered). If the bushes are not sitting at a neutral angle these will wear and offer movement to the dynamics....hence wearing the tyres out.

Also, if you have changed an arm due to bush or bearing issues, you really need to change them all in one go.

Dont use chinese imports.....although cheap, there is less metal on the arm, they are not properly made and the balls will fail quicker...I know I learnt that lesson. Try to buy german TUV approved arms. I got a set of complete lowers, heavy duty for my B6, for 150 delivered and I have to say I'm impressed.

Before you search for alignment issues you really have to ensure your arms are tight at both ends, not bent, the C-link are tight and the subframe bushes to chassis are good. The roll bar bushes should be tight too. After that consider worn springs and shocks.... especially shocks......anything over 100K miles = you need new shocks....and dont forget tyre pressures.....which should really be the first check.

After that, then alignment.....like I said, static and dynamic are different...if your experiencing worn outer/inner edges then the front is loose. Wheel bearings should also be considered, but less likely, as are worn hubs, which is rare.

Hope that helps!

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned speed humps.

Most people straddle them causing wear to inside edges of the tyres, you should alternate each side driving over the centre of the humps.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...to-shreds.html

Do you drive over a lot of those annoying speed humps that only the inside wall of the tyre hits. They become rough and destroy tyres, if you do, have a look at the state of the humps and take it up with the council. A friend of mine has the same on his alfa and it is the humps doing it. I suppose if the hump is cutting the rubber then when your tanking it the tyre is sort of self destructing. Hope this is a help

sorry if i sound like im repeating the previous post as i didnt read all the posts before writing

Sumpy, thanks for posting that. I think you need to ask some questions of the place that done your alignment as they shouldn't leave it out of spec without making you aware of it and explaining a good reason why.

However that aside, going from -4deg camber on the front left to a lot closer to spec should make a significant difference. Would you happen to recall whether this tyre was wearing more than the right one?

Although the only thing I would say is that because the camber and toe are both out of spec on the front left (after adjustment) maybe there is some wear or damage to one of the components there.

Bushes and ball joints do wear and obviously will have a big effect on suspension geometry but a decent alignment place should have inspected those during the job, especially if they were having trouble trying to achieve spec.

Sorry but I don't buy the speed humps story (makes a good story for the press though) as I reckon you would have to go over so many, so often and at a reasonable speed before wear from this one thing became significant.

Martin F, yes actually now you mention it, it is the front left that goes first.
BTW it was -4'(minutes) adjusted but point taken.

Also the speed bumps, I was convinced these were to blame after the last lot of new fronts. So I was quite **** driving over them (much to the annoyance of cars following me!) it obviously made no difference what so ever, but I bet that debate will go on...

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Originally Posted by Sumpy467

BTW it was -4'(minutes) adjusted but point taken.

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Doh!

Should have read closer.

The front camber is not really adjustable on the B6 A4, the subframe can be moved slightly but this will affect both sides, so only small adjustment there.

Of course the top and bottom arms could be slackened where they bolt to the subframe and also the strut top could be loosened to see if there is any movement to bring the camber closer to spec. I still think my top arms or my hub assy is slightly bent, causing excessive wear on the front inside edges.

Talking to a guy in body repair shop, recons that nothings wrong with tracking/ camber ECT. Its the width of the tyre and the ability of the power steering to use full lock easily thats scrubing the inside of the front tyres off so easly. It makes sence with my car [A4 avant tdi sport] as I make a 3 point turn at least twice a day.:(

hi, i had similar problem with rear tyres wearing on my last A4, and it was down to both rear coil springs being snapped at the bottom, just a thought.

thanks, i will check that 1 out:Blush:

Hit a pot hole (really hard) on the way home the other day, destroyed the tyre and wheel (nsf).
So rather than buy new tyres I bought some rs4 wheels with tyres off a chap at work.
I only mention this because my old wheels were 18" audi look-a-likes, the new ones are gen 17" audi wheels. I'm thinking it may have been the non standard wheels giving me the tyre problems ??? -maybe! Time will tell.

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Originally Posted by Hex69

I'm surprised no-one has mentioned speed humps.

Most people straddle them causing wear to inside edges of the tyres, you should alternate each side driving over the centre of the humps.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/...to-shreds.html

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You'd have to be running speed bumps alot to get the kind of wear seen by the poster! They are bl00dy hazzard though.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sumpy467

Hit a pot hole (really hard) on the way home the other day, destroyed the tyre and wheel (nsf).
So rather than buy new tyres I bought some rs4 wheels with tyres off a chap at work.
I only mention this because my old wheels were 18" audi look-a-likes, the new ones are gen 17" audi wheels. I'm thinking it may have been the non standard wheels giving me the tyre problems ??? -maybe! Time will tell.

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Bloody pot holes! I was about to post to say I cracked a wheel in the middle of nowhere the other day. I have decided to get a fresh set of 19" RS4's (without tyres) to replace my old ones. The other 3 were scuffed anyway. On the plus side my tyres had worn 100% evenly after 5000 miles and have loads of tread left so it seems my uneven wear problem has been fixed......well, until i hit the pot hole and probably knocked my alignment out again :aargh4: