Passat TDi 170 - extra load v. standard load tyres

Hi all

apologies if this question's been asked and answered but I couldn't find any answers.

A couple of months ago I had to replace the rear P7s on my 2007 Passat. I wanted to stay with Pirelli P7s but couldn't get them in extra load (215/55-16 97W).

The dealer (ATS Euromaster) assured me that standard load tyres (215/55-16 94W) would be OK and so this is what I had them fit.

I'm taking the car to Austria in a couple of weeks and beginning to have some misgivings as to whether I made a wise choice.

Anyone have any views as to whether this sounds an OK situation?

Many thanks

John

I've always thought VW advised extra load tyres for a good reason, whatever that may be, so have always stuck with them. I'd be having doubts if I varied from these, perhaps unfounded though.
I did wonder should you ever be unfortunate enough to have an accident and the insurance company/police noticed, if it could go against you somehow, as you'd be running non recommended tyre spec. Any insurance experts/road traffic officers/tyre fitters care to comment ?.

Also, should you have a puncture you may have odd tyres on different corners, and that can't be advisable.

Many thanks. Interesting thing is that I can't find anything in the handbook that mentions the specific tyre size.

John

i was advised that to fit non-xl tyres might prove a problem re insurance in the event of an accident so went with the xl's

The handbook is totally unhelpful on this subject so the only guides you have are what VW fitted in the first place or your tyre fitter who should have access to application lists or some tyre manufacturers websites.

That said car manufacturers buy tyres in bulk from whoever is offering the best deal at the time and that could lead to tyres of a higher spec. than necessary being fitted.

ATS Euromaster could therefore be correct. However, if they told you P7 215/55 R16 97Ws are unavailable they're telling porkies (lots of what they sold you in stock to shift?) because a quick google brings up outfits with them for sale.

Provided the 94Ws are within spec. I think you're OK. It shouldn't matter if the tyres on the other axle are of higher spec.

I'm no expert but earlier this year I wanted to fit tyres on the front which were only available in 97Y and not the inferior 97W the car came on (both extra load). I consulted the mechanics who look after my classic Alfa and are also MOT testers and they said it is not an issue, They double checked with their tyre supplier who agreed.

I wouldn't worry about it - I'm not! I recently had W's put on the rear and they were fine on a 1500 mile round trip ( i mean no noise or funny wear etc)

I'm always sceptical about advice from people that my your money. Pragmatic theory of truth - something is true if it is useful and of benefit to be true.

But again- any experts out there?

I think that Extra Load tyres need to be specd as the Passat isn't exactly a light car. Imagine a fully loaded car (4 up with luggage) and you have to make an emergncy swerve manouveur (sp?) on non-extra load tyres....

I don't think they add much to the cost, to be honest...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by johnloaderuk

I've always thought VW advised extra load tyres for a good reason, whatever that may be, so have always stuck with them. I'd be having doubts if I varied from these, perhaps unfounded though.
I did wonder should you ever be unfortunate enough to have an accident and the insurance company/police noticed, if it could go against you somehow, as you'd be running non recommended tyre spec. Any insurance experts/road traffic officers/tyre fitters care to comment ?.

Also, should you have a puncture you may have odd tyres on different corners, and that can't be advisable.

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Being a traffic cop :o Id say that fitting non-reinforced tyres when they are not recommended by the manufacturer wouldn't be illegal. There is a vast distance between 'recommended' and 'jegal requirement'. It has always interested me as to why they recommend reinforced tyres. Mine are due at the end of the year and for an extra couple of quid a tyre think i'll go for reinforced ones.

Recently raised the same question myself to VW, as a local tyre supplier advised me the extra load tyres were not required. VW then confirmed the 170 TDI Estate should definitely have the Extra Load tyres upon them.

I then checked with Blackcircles and several other reputable tyre retailers who advised to definitely have extra load tyres fitted. To be honest the difference was less than £5 a tyre so in my eyes it was really not worth the risk.

Thanks everybody.

I decided to err on the safe side and while I could not get Pirelli P7s in the extra load 215/55-16 97W, I have got a pair of Dunlops, thus I now have EL tyres all around.

One thing I did notice with the standard load tyres on the back was that I felt the ride was a bit "squirmier". I hadn't realised that the EL tyres have stiffer sidewalls and I guess this would account for it.

In fact the tyre fitter who swapped my tyres brought me one of my standard load Pirellis and demonstrated the comparison in sidewall stiffness. It was very noticeable.

I feel a lot happier and as I'm driving out to Austria in 2 weeks' time, I think it was the correct thing to do.

Thanks again.

John

PS anyone picked up that current advice is that you should always put your newest tyres on the back wheels?

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Originally Posted by john@johnsthrel

PS anyone picked up that current advice is that you should always put your newest tyres on the back wheels?

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Yep, if you buy your tyres at Costco, they only ever fit them to the rear and they've been doing that for that for at least the last 3 years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john@johnsthrel

PS anyone picked up that current advice is that you should always put your newest tyres on the back wheels?

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This has been the advice from the experts for at least a couple of years now. Perhaps if you Google it you'll get the reason(s).

I'm not an expert, so on that basis I have always put the best tyres on the front, my reasoning being that up to a point you can collect a rear-wheel slide, if the front goes you've got no chance. And of course the fronts do all the work.

I'd be grateful if someone would come up with the thoughts behind it - I've forgotten.:o

Hi Quatrelle

My late father was a heavy goods mechanic and always, but always, advised me to have my best tyres on the front as they do all the steering and most of the braking. 40 years of advice is hard to shake.

I believe there has been a report by Michelin that suggests that if you have your best tyres on the front and suffer a rear failure, you're likely to end up in a spin. I think this presupposes that the driver is either unable or does not have the skill to deal with this.

Is this a result of liability concerns? Cynically, is it because front tyres wear faster than rear ones?

John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by john@johnsthrel

Anyone picked up that current advice is that you should always put your newest tyres on the back wheels?

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Odd - I've ALWAYS put the newest on the front as they're the wheels that do the driving/steering, etc.

If I get new tyres for the rear and 5000 miles later I get a front set - I'll have the newest ones put up front and the (now older) ones put to the back.

The fronts will always wear faster and I think it's better to have the best tread up front - especially as it's the front that'll meet the hazard first*

*Unless you're me, in a Bora, having spun backwards into a field at about 50mph....

I think the Michelin reasoning is based upon having greater grip at the rear, as the vast majority of drivers have now been brought up on front wheel drive cars that have a built-in tendancy to understeer, so when a driver runs out of grip/ability all he has to do is lift off to retrieve the situation.

Having less grip at the rear will promote a tendancy to oversteer which will be a a pretty much unknown phenomenon to a lot of people (you learned a lot driving Marinas, Cortinas, Escorts etc!) and simply lifting off if the tail goes won`t necessarily get you out of trouble.

John - Unfortunately I'm old enough to have been brought up on rear-wheel drive cars (well before angus's Marinas etc.:().

I once had a rear-tyre puncture at over 80mph in a Renault 21, and the only reaction I got in the car was a droning that at first made me think that a bearing had broken in the gearbox. No drama, I pulled onto the hard shoulder and at first looked at the front of the car. It wasn't till I noticed the smell of burning rubber coming from the back ......There was no tendency at all for the car to fishtail.

But they were Michelin tyres!

angus - I think that was the main reason given for putting the best tyres on the rear. And of course lifting off would make things worse if the rear goes.

Did you ever drive a Marina TC:aargh4:

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Did you ever drive a Marina TC:aargh4:[/QUOTE]

My first car!
Brilliant fun! Understeer, oversteer, four-wheel drifts, all in the same corner, taught you more about car control than a track day.

They should be brought back and made compulsory education for the chavs in their Saxos!:biglaugh:

Hi Quatrelle

I learned to drive in a Ford Anglia in the late 60s. Did a little Formula Ford and various skid control courses in front and rear wheel drive cars.

I'm touching wood as I say this I've never had a violent rear tyre puncture...

I had a Renault 21 Estate some years ago. Although sold in the UK as a Savanna, mine had the French Nevada badges on which caused me a few problems when I came to sell it. A good car though.

Regards

John