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i just got it back on the road and was out last night and i noticed blips it the acceleration. Further tests showed that my clutch was slipping. Switch to grandma mode to nurse it along. What is likely to happen? Will its slipping slowly get worse or will i suddenly lose the clutch without warning? Also, when i look for a new one, am i better sticking with a vw standard clutch or opting for some sort of sports clutch? What are the benefits of each option?
How many miles has it covered. The US has a 100k (I think) powertrain warranty, do we (the UK) have anything similar?
Is this on the Mk5? The US warranty dosn't cover clutches for wear as far as I know.
crasher What would you recommend in your vast experience?
Youve done well to kill the clutch in 57k ;)
Youve had an early warning, well done for spotting it - but change the clutch asap or you'll have problems very soon. Have you tuned the car at all? IMO go for an OE valeo/luk unit if not - theres no reason why an OE clutch isnt up to the job if driven correctly......;)
2.0 gt tdi's don't usually come with 191bhp do they?:Blush:Quote:
Originally Posted by Pauloz
obviously not. just trying to help :pQuote:
Originally Posted by golfmk5gttdi
When i got the car it had already done 33000 miles. Who know how it did them?:dunno:
i'm hoping i can make it last till next weekend so i can take it then. but if not, i have 'dads recovery service' on stand by.;)
Hi dad.:D
And you said your mothers car was car was 'pants'.
Can I assist you to the repairers? If a Touareg can tow a 747......;)
I would suggest fitting a full LUK DMF and clutch kit from GSF or ECP, if it lasts another 60k that will be OK I think, don'yt you?
thanks crasher. Would you have any idea of the costs compared to that of the standard vw kit? And any idea of how long the job will take? Its out my league.
No idea of the aftermarket price, PM me your cars reg so I can tell you the genuine prices.
kr53uux no need to pm it as photos with it in appear all over this site :Blush:.
update,
the clutch hasn't slipped now for two days and i gave is a good hard drive today and couldn't even force it to slip so maybe it was just an anomalie?
still, i'd like to thank crasher for his assistance, and sorry i couldn't get up to you next week, maybe someone upstairs decided i'd had enough bad luck recently.
I still called in to a VW dealership and got a tech to test it. To be fair, he asked me to wait for a specific tech to return from testing another motor.
well an update on this is needed.
I have not had the clutch changed yet and it has been running perfectly until that is saturday 1st november. on the motorway 6th gear 70mph, asked for more power and the rev needle goes faster than the speed needle.
Yep its slipping again, only detectable at speed in 5th and 6th but more so in 6th when you request a lot of power, if you are gentle with it it doesn't slip.
there is no slippage in the lower gears, and if i try the usual test of accelerating in a high gear from a low speed it still fails to slip.
i will continue to monitor it.
Mate, forget monitoring it, and get it changed asap.Quote:
Originally Posted by golfmk5gttdi
Allowing the clutch to slip, causes a heat build up in the flywheel - and will make damn sure to add another couple of hundred squid onto the already expensive job.
If its slipping now, there is no way in the world that it is not going to get worse - and at an exponential rate.
couldn't get it to slip today.
i fully intend to get a new dual mass flywheel when the clutch goes.
what with 191 bhp going through it better safe than sorry. also, i don't know how the 1st 33000 miles were put on the car before i bought it.
Your poor Dad still on recovery stand by? :p
TBH I'd get it done before it goes, might be a bit late when you're stuck on the hard shoulder on a cold winter's night...
I'm dreading the day when the DMFs start to give up on the T5 and the A6 (and the Octavia if it has one), they're flipping expensive!
Paul
A dual mass fly wheel generally contains an over torque friction release, so if it gets suddenly overloaded, rather than damage the springs, it slips, this could be what you are experiencing, this is especially prevelant on cars that have been tuned since the flywheel will have been designed for a very specific torque curve.
This works fine as a safety valve, but if it does it much it burns up. In short, overloaded they burn up and the springs get destroyed.
If you do need to replace the fly wheel, you may want to consider not using a stock or OEM one since you will just have the same issue.
There is no aftermarked Duall Mass Flywheel, the only ones you will find are LUK or SACHS wich are both OEM manufacturers...Valeo does a single mass flywheel conversion but i would not reccomend it on any diesel car because it shudders and vibrates a f**k...
Interesting point. My car has been remapped, and I experience a juddering when flooring it in top gear between 55 - 70mph, which smoothes out post 70mph. I've always put this down to the clutch struggling with the extra torque.Quote:
Originally Posted by B8 TDI
So, if using a standard DMF flywheel, but with an upgraded clutch, I wondered if it would banish the juddering.
Or is it perhaps the judder is because the DMF is about to go kaput!
I tend to drive with a degree of mechanical sympathy to avoid the juddering.
My 2p......
My clutch has been slipping as described above for the last 15,000 or so miles. Sometimes it'll be fine for weeks and weeks and then it'll slip.
When it does it is only momentarily as I either back of the throttle or change down. I never let it slip for more than a few moments at a time.
The car is a lowly 130hp TDI Passat, and not re-mapped but has now done almost 145,000 miles, I assume on the original clutch. The car has a very hard life and gets thrashed to within an inch of its life all the time
Personally I am going to keep it going for as long as possible until it either becomes undrivable or dies. Only then will I change the clutch and dmf.
Look at it another way and compare the dmf as a service item like a water pump is when you do your cambelt. You will not, I assume, get your clutch changed without the dmf as it would be a false economy. So if you ruin it, it simply doesn't matter as it will be replaced when the time comes anyway.
Also,
Anyone know if they do a single mass conversion for the AWX TDI engine yet? I know you can get one for the AFN etc but not the PD's. Anyone know different?
As for vibration, I've driven loads of diesels without dmf's in the past and must say my old PD engined dmf'd Golf4 and now the Passat don't seem to be any smoother than other cars I've had. What I think the dmf does is smooth out the take off when the clutch bites. It might act as a damper but its damping properties to me are almost imperceptable. At 145k+ I don't care about a bit of vibration ! ;)
The way I see it...Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCol
VAG wouldn't manufacture and fit DMFs just for someone to go and convert it to single mass. VAG must have made it like that for a reason... and it must have been a positive change for the car.
I have an AWX in my A6. ;)
Paul
The primary reason is to reduce vibration and harshness to provide refinement.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul b
On an old car it isn't worth the bother.
Take my Passat, probably worth about 3k for a 2002 car. Clutch change with a new DMF would be a minimum of £800 which is almost a third of the value of the car.
If you can't get an AWX solid conversion, I'll probably have it welded up and then dynamically balanced...... Now there is a business plan for old VAG / BMW / Ford / Peugeot in fact any diesel cars as they get older, dual to solid conversions b ut using the original flywheel. I reckon if you could turn these round for £50 a go which beats £400+ for a new item !
Look at this youtube link for a very good animation of a dmf in action...
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=YnaXB8...eature=related
I want to the break the 300,000 miles barrier in mine, which will be another 2.5 years. So would want to keep it as smooth as poss to aid the driving refinement. Othe wise I might get fed up and have to get rid before the mileage target.
Ahh, but you know what they say if you can't afford to maintain your car...Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCol
Also, would it not be better, doing the DMF + clutch on your car and then having the piece of mind, you know what has been done to this car in it's past, whereas you could get rid for another £3k car and it could have had all sorts of problems in the past and it may be in need of work. A bit like "better the devil you know"?
Paul
Even if you could afford the maintenance, spending £1k to repair or maintain a £3k car is just really ....Quote:
Originally Posted by paul b
I drive my cars very hard but also maintain them to the very highest standards, usually money no object. This is different, what is to be considered as a throwaway service item is so damned expensive it almost cuts out any diesel ownership cost savings in one foul swoop.Quote:
Originally Posted by paul b
However in this instance I would not hessitate to convert to a solid flywheel if one were available. The 1.9 TDI block has been about for over 20 years and the older ones didn't have a DMF, so no need for one now from a running and longlivety point of view.
I will no doubt end up replacing the DMF and the spiggot bearing when I eventually do the clutch as a solid conversion as far as I'm aware is not available. Saying that, apart from the odd and ocassional bit of clutch slip when I give it mega beans, the car runs and drives faultlessly.
Spot on.Quote:
Originally Posted by B8 TDI
I have probably over valued the car as the bottom has fallen out of 2nd hand values recently. It is probably worth more like £2,000 to £2,500 which would mean the clutch would approach 50% of its value.
It's got a nice stereo system though, hey Col ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCol
Yes ! ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by mycarsavw
The sound system would cost more than 50% of the car if I had to replace it, which is more than the poxy clutch, so I should by rights shut up ! :biglaugh:
I suppose it is all about priorities. Mine was a sound system...... which to be honest is a bit silly but it was transferred from my old Golf 4 GT-TDI and when I got it (about 4 years ago), DMF's were the last thing on my mind :p
I have to admit, I wanted a solid for mine (it's pretty much due now, no slippage, thankfully).
After driving my brothers tolly, which has had a single mass fitted, I definitley noticed the judder, which the DMF obviously eliminates, but it wasn't so prominent that it detracted from the driving experience.
If I could source one for the golf, I'd have one fitted without hesitation.
They are readily available for the Golf but not sure about 6 speeds.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eshrules-Enterprises
Well, there are some individuals who would take that view and as a consequence, probably end up racking a huge debt just to have a newer shinier car.Quote:
Originally Posted by B8 TDI
So I personally would spend the £1k and make do with the car until it dies. What's to say that the new car that someone hypothetically bought for £10k needs a new clutch and DMF after six months - spent £11k when £1k would have been sufficient!
A car should be for life, not just until it takes someones fancy to change it to keep up with the Jones'. Hence why the UK is debt ridden, and economy virtually bankrupt.
Ahem, rant over.
Who ever mentioned chopping the car in for a new one in lieu of fitting a DMF. I will eventually end up changing the damned thing, I am not happy about it though.
Personally I maintain my car regardless and am of the school of making do and mending. I have the option of a company car but choose instead to run my old banger of a 2002 Passat and pocket the car allowance.
What disappoints me is the fact that such a part is that expensive and so unreliable at the same time.
There does come a time though where you have to apply the law of dimishing returns on something like a car. A good example would be spending £1,000 on a car worth £3,000 then driving one mile up the road, getting rear ended and written off.
The insurance would only pay out market value and that would be £3,000 if you were lucky! That is £1,000 gone into the ether! Couple that to the fact that the turbo is probably nearing the end of its useful life and that all manner of horrors possibly await on the unit injector front then it maybe time to change.
Hmmm, just talking myself into getting something else here that would be worth keeping and that would be cheap to keep going. My mind springs to an older B5 Passat / A6 with the 110hp AFN engine. They are tough and they fall easily within the realms of keeping economically on the road unlike a PD engined TDI, better on juice to.
Saying all that, I will keep it and will soon have it up on some ramps and will be wrestling the gearox out to change the clutch AND the bloody DMF.
DMF is only fitted to Diesel engines?
I guess I am asking if my car has one?
With you there Clinterous!Quote:
Originally Posted by Clinterous
Yes, the DMFs are expensive, but they're not unreliable! They usually last the length of the clutch, and many DMFs get blamed for clutch problems, because when a clutch begins to fail the DMFs takes the punishment and then that fails. And people will put it down to the DMF and blame the DMF design.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCol
More often than not it is the clutch that ruins the DMF, not the other way around.
I too am not pleased knowing that one day my Audi is going to want a fortune spent on it on a DMF + clutch, but provided I am still in ownership of the car I will get on with the job and change it. This way I know I will be able to keep the car for another period of thousands of miles and that will not need changing again. This just brings me back to my first point... better the devil you know.
Paul
One post will do, seven is a bit excessive no matter how upset you are!
back to vw today.