New Passat Estate -Should I wait?

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21-11-2006, 10:20 PM
DocL

New Passat Estate -Should I wait?

I am a caravanner who currently tows with a Skoda Octavia Estate 130bhp Diesel 6sp box.

This is the second I've owned & I have found them admirable towcars. In 80,000miles on the old one and 56,000 on the current one, I've only had to have new tyres and wipers, and one cam-belt change, apart from routine servicing. That's it.

In thinking of replacing my caravan I find I may need more towing capacity than the Skoda provides (only 1400kg) so I thought I'd upgrade to a Passat Estate (Diesel) with a DSG box.

However some of the nightmare scenarios I've seen about the new Passat has got me wondering.

Should I wait, or perhaps buy s/h, the old version with the same 130bhp diesel engine as the Octavia, but with a DSG box?

The Audi A4 Avant (s/h) seems hardly any larger than the Skoda and does not use the DSG box AFAIK. Also seems lower to sit in than the Octavia and they are way over-priced IMHO!!

So any advice from you guys to help resolve my dilema would be gratefully received.
:beerchug: Cheers
21-11-2006, 10:49 PM
adamss24

Why not go for the new skoda superb 2.5 tdi v6 6 speed quattro as they are brilliant towing machines and will still return a reasonable Mpg. Shop around and you wont regret it. I dont know how good the dsg box is at pulling but i will rather have a worn clutch replaced than a broken dsg box repaired for 300 pounds ! It commes with plenty standard equipment as standard and will hold resale value reasonablly well.
21-11-2006, 10:59 PM
mutley

I don't think the DSG was available on the pre B6 Passat - Auto yes, but not DSG.
01-12-2006, 10:05 AM
les

I would steer clear of the DSG system, probs on most cars with this fitted. As has been said, for towing a 2.5 TDI manual car would be excellent as you need all the Torque you can get for towing.
01-12-2006, 01:49 PM
mutley

Quote:

Originally Posted by les

I would steer clear of the DSG system, probs on most cars with this fitted. As has been said, for towing a 2.5 TDI manual car would be excellent as you need all the Torque you can get for towing.

Hi Les, I tow with a Touran DSG, close to it's towing limit of 1500 Kgs., and have had no problems whatsoever. I find it a great gearbox all-'round, and have never heard of anyone having had problems with it.
01-12-2006, 02:39 PM
adamss24

Wait untill it breaks mate. Its cheaper to replace a clutch than repair a DSG auto gearbox. Remember the muppets at the dealers dont know to service a old style 4speed auto gearbox and they are sending it away in germany for servicing, what do you think they gonna do with a NEW DSG gearbox ? Just pray it will break durring the waranty and do not mention you towed with it !!! Surf tdiclub in the states to see how many hapy customers are over there who drive auto/dsg gearboxes ! Also remember the oil needs replacing quite often in these and cost a few quid. Take my advice: 2.5 tdi quatro(torsen/all mechanical=NO MAINTENANCE) mated to a 6 speed manual gearbox with an upgraded clutch and you will have no problems ! Hope this helps. Its happens that i used to own a 2.5 tdi a6auto that blew a gearbox even though i newer towed with it and now i have a 98 a4 2.5 tdi quattro/6 speed that i use regular to tow and i am verry happy with it. Good luck !
01-12-2006, 03:04 PM
les

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamss24

Wait untill it breaks mate. Its cheaper to replace a clutch than repair a DSG auto gearbox. Remember the muppets at the dealers dont know to service a old style 4speed auto gearbox and they are sending it away in germany for servicing, what do you think they gonna do with a NEW DSG gearbox ? Just pray it will break durring the waranty and do not mention you towed with it !!! Surf tdiclub in the states to see how many hapy customers are over there who drive auto/dsg gearboxes ! Also remember the oil needs replacing quite often in these and cost a few quid. Take my advice: 2.5 tdi quatro(torsen/all mechanical=NO MAINTENANCE) mated to a 6 speed manual gearbox with an upgraded clutch and you will have no problems ! Hope this helps. Its happens that i used to own a 2.5 tdi a6auto that blew a gearbox even though i newer towed with it and now i have a 98 a4 2.5 tdi quattro/6 speed that i use regular to tow and i am verry happy with it. Good luck !

I absolutely agree!, I can understand why people want to tow with an auto, but a lot of prolonged slippage = excessive internal heat which is bad, results in a dead auto before its time and a huge bill
01-12-2006, 08:55 PM
mutley

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamss24

Wait untill it breaks mate. Its cheaper to replace a clutch than repair a DSG auto gearbox. Remember the muppets at the dealers dont know to service a old style 4speed auto gearbox and they are sending it away in germany for servicing, what do you think they gonna do with a NEW DSG gearbox ? Just pray it will break durring the waranty and do not mention you towed with it !!! Surf tdiclub in the states to see how many hapy customers are over there who drive auto/dsg gearboxes ! Also remember the oil needs replacing quite often in these and cost a few quid. Take my advice: 2.5 tdi quatro(torsen/all mechanical=NO MAINTENANCE) mated to a 6 speed manual gearbox with an upgraded clutch and you will have no problems ! Hope this helps. Its happens that i used to own a 2.5 tdi a6auto that blew a gearbox even though i newer towed with it and now i have a 98 a4 2.5 tdi quattro/6 speed that i use regular to tow and i am verry happy with it. Good luck !

I appreciate what you are saying, and have no doubt that repairs to a DSG will be very expensive. However, I've done some searches on the tdi club, and can't see any expensive repairs quoted, or many unsatisfied customers for that matter. Having said that, I must admit that I am no "computer expert", and would be happy to stand correction, and apologise in advance, if you could quote the site to which you are referring. Thanks.
05-12-2006, 08:05 PM
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by les

I absolutely agree!, I can understand why people want to tow with an auto, but a lot of prolonged slippage = excessive internal heat which is bad, results in a dead auto before its time and a huge bill

Before you give your advice you should at least do a minimal amount of research.

The is no 'slippage' within a DSG box - there is no torque converter.

A DSG is not an autobox in the usual sense, it's an auto preselector box with a pair of electrically actuated wet clutches.

Roy
05-12-2006, 08:54 PM
adamss24

Whatever they say about a DSG gearbox its STILL an automatic gearbox and will be VERRY expensive to fix when it breaks. Wet or dry, the clutches will still slip but the computer will try to minimise that. What i say is that is a manual gearbox is better to tow and cheaper to fix than any equivalent automatic gearbox. Remember how reliable Mercedes and Vw/audi engines used to be in the 80 ? Why , because they did not have electrical sensors and stuff to break...Me, i will still buy a manual 6 sped gearbox any time, just for the extra speed... Your money are your money and you spend them as you wish ! Good luck.
06-12-2006, 10:46 AM
les

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

Before you give your advice you should at least do a minimal amount of research.

The is no 'slippage' within a DSG box - there is no torque converter.

A DSG is not an autobox in the usual sense, it's an auto preselector box with a pair of electrically actuated wet clutches.

Roy

Well thanks for enlightening me........a DSG still works similar to a conventional Auto but without a t/converter, the clutches still run in fluid and its that fluid that gets overheated causing wear on the clutches which will make it slip faster than a conventional clutch especially with lazy electrical gear changes, so any clutch that runs in fluid is an auto in that sense. Yes there's no t/converter slippage. Electrically operated gear changes are notorius for problems on BMW DSG boxes etc., the Alfa selespeed is troublesome as well and these are not popular in the Trade. As I said the cost of repair is huge and the system is not so reliable as a dry clutch which is why a dry clutch better for towing and cheaper to repair.
06-12-2006, 12:04 PM
Roy

Quote:

Originally Posted by adamss24

Whatever they say about a DSG gearbox its STILL an automatic gearbox and will be VERRY expensive to fix when it breaks. Wet or dry, the clutches will still slip but the computer will try to minimise that. What i say is that is a manual gearbox is better to tow and cheaper to fix than any equivalent automatic gearbox. Remember how reliable Mercedes and Vw/audi engines used to be in the 80 ? Why , because they did not have electrical sensors and stuff to break...Me, i will still buy a manual 6 sped gearbox any time, just for the extra speed... Your money are your money and you spend them as you wish ! Good luck.

Sorry to be picky - but the DSG is quicker (0-60) through all the gears and returns better economy than the manual :aargh4:

Roy
06-12-2006, 02:15 PM
adamss24

That's what they allways say but if you look closelly on their broshures its quicker than the 5 speed manual and there is no way in real world it will be as economical than the 6speed g'box given the extra weight. I agree with you that is quicker overall from a stand-still 9 times out of ten(thats down to human error !) but remember we dont buy a diesel to race of the lights or do we ? The DSG gearbox is a brilliant gearbox but is not as reliable as a manual gearbox at the moment. Maybe in 10 years time it will be good enough to make me change my mind but untill then the 6 speed 2.5 TDI with the TORSEN IV quattro is the way to go.
06-12-2006, 02:16 PM
DocL

Quote:

Originally Posted by Roy

Before you give your advice you should at least do a minimal amount of research.

The is no 'slippage' within a DSG box - there is no torque converter.

A DSG is not an autobox in the usual sense, it's an auto preselector box with a pair of electrically actuated wet clutches.

Roy

Roy is quite correct, see http://auto.howstuffworks.com/dual-c...nsmission1.htm for the operation of the Twin Clutch DSG box.

It is precisely because it does not have an energy sapping, heat producing torque converter that I considered it ideal for use in a towcar.

I've test driven a Volvo with its Geartronic box and found it absolutely dreadful; that was without a caravan on the back!!

As Roy says, there is NO slippage in an 'engaged' wet plate clutch, therefore no heat production, as in a torque converter. The second clutch will be 'disengaged' (N.B. not slipping) and not providing any power throughput, so again heat production in the second clutch will be minimized.

I have also heard that the DSG box returns better mpg than the standard manual box.

Seemingly both Citroen and Ford are working on their own versions of this dual clutch gearbox.

I would be very interested to hear of any problems with this VW version, but haven't noted any yet. Most problems seem to be on the engine management side of things.

Thanks for all your input folks. BTW I contacted Broadspeed for an 'internet' price quote for such an new car and the standard spec. came out at ~£18,000; with self levelling, cruis c. and some other stuff ~£19,000. Does anyone know a better bet??

Cheers, DocL