Printable View
Hi all,
couldn't find much relating to this so starting a new thread.
Been working my way through various problems on a 2006 Golf Plus, with the current one being;
"EMISSIONS GARAGE"
Car turns over but doesn't start.
Fuel pump was changed a few days ago and verified pumping into the filter cylinder.
What could be causing this fault on the display?
EGR valve?
Lambda?
Etc.?
Disconnect the exhaust it maybe a cat issue.
Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk
Thanks for that.Quote:
Originally Posted by bill.wj.wilson
Have just pulled the V157 flap and EGR which are totally caked in sludge,
So gonna clean and test them first
Ok,
cleaned the EGR valve which was well gunked-up. Not near-blocked gunked but dirty. Then tested it, by sucking on the nipple :biglaugh:... (lucky me!)
Then cleaned the V157 flap and tested to see if the motor was turning and engaging. All seems ok.
Still getting "EMISSIONS GARAGE" warning on the dash, with the car not starting.
Speaking of which, can someone confirm that this 'emissions' warning prevents the car from firing?
Edit... Seen other cars with the same warning which start fine so there must also be another problem, shame don't have access to diagnostics
Tomorrow is another day, so intend to get underneath to clean up some more, check the glowplugs, check the LAMBDA and see about disconnecting the exhaust.
It does not have a lambda sensor unless it has a DPF and it should be a BKD engine with cat and no DFP, it needs a fault code read.
I would bleed the injectors, get a safe procedure for that
Also if the fuses were messed up could the relays be also?
They are embedded in the head and are self bleeding.Quote:
Originally Posted by Roverfan
It is a BKD.
Saw the sticker on the cambelt cover as I was takingthe rocker cover off to test the glow-plugs.
All 4 plugs tested @ 0.6Ω, but no voltage, so went to check the relay.
VAG # 038 907 281 D
Bosch # 0 281 003 038
Pin number layout is
G1, G2, G3, G4 - in a row
.... 87, 31, ....
D1, ....30,., ST
Measuring resitance gives either 'open circuit' or readings climbing in the mega ohms before going 'open', which on a normal relay would indicate 'broken'.
Need to get inside to see if there is a transitor or two...
Can't get it open (yet) so does anyone have a schematic or pin-out?
Seem to be getting +12v to both pins 30 and 18 from the relay socket
Got the little fella open.
Far from being a regular relay...
Has a 24 pin microchip as well as 4 N-channel mosfets, a diode and various capacitors and resistors...
Seeing as the fuse is good and the plugs are good, this is getting replaced.
There are lots of bits you could spend weeks teating, replacing and spending money on. Can you not get a VCDS or at least OBD11 type reader off of eBay to give you more info on what to look at?
4 dead glow plugs will not stop a BKD from starting.
So, managed to get a VAG-COM with VCDS - Lite, and the fault code came back as;
013112 - Control circuit for glow plug controller 1: Electrical malfunction P3338 - 000
Presuming the 'controller' is the relay, (and presuming this is situated under the engine compartment fuse box) have changed the relay but it still doesn't start and still comes up as "EMISSIONS GARAGE" on the dash.
One thing, is that none of the shops in the area could find the same Bosch part number; 0 281 003 038. They all had 0 281 003 083, which is what was purchased.
When searching online, the 0 281 003 083 came up as being good for the 2006 Golf Plus 2.0 TDi
Is this simply the incorrect relay?
Could there be another fuse?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
That is very interesting - Thanks.
The only fault code is the "013112 - Control circuit for glow plug controller 1: Electrical malfunction P3338 - 000"
If this Czech shop is correct, then the relay is compatible;
RELÉ VW AUDI 0 281 003 038 ORIGINAL BOSCH 0281003083 Steuergerät Glühzeit VAG TDI VW AUDI - 038 907 281D - Použité zbožÃ* - Originál dÃ*l- Záruka ORIGINAL BOSCH 0281003083 Steuergerät Glühzeit VAG TDI « vwaudi.cz
Žhavící RELÉ VW AUDI
0 281 003 038
ORIGINAL BOSCH 0 281 003 083 Steuergerät Glühzeit VAG TDI
VW AUDI - 038 907 281 D
Assuming that is correct, then it only really leaves the wiring between the relay and the cylinder head connector
038 907 281 D is for a BMM and BLS engine, the BKD uses either 03G 907 282 or 03G 987 282 A depending on the build date, if it is a 2006 model year it is the A which changed to a B. As far as I can see 0 281 003 038 is not a good Bosch number and if the Tec Doc cross reference is to be believed then Bosch did not do the 03G.
Hi again Crasher.Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
The Bosch number on the old relay is definitely 0 281 003 038. The VW number is; VAG 038 907 281 D
Attachment 36847
Considering that it is a BKD engine from early 2006, does it HAVE to be the 03G 907 282 relay? There are lots of people selling the Bosch 0 281 003 038 as THE relay for the Golf Plus. And it had been working fine since the owner bought the car 9 years ago.
One thing however, which I am wondering about, is that if the BKD starts with all four glow plugs dead, and if the car is pumping fuel, the fuel line is self-bleeding, the vacuum lines are working (or at least the headlights raise up and down)... is there any other 'common' fault on these that maight have been overlooked?
I mean, even though tomorrow the entire GP circuit will be inspected, tested and cleaned, you said that this circuit will not stop the car going?
Perhaps there is still a fuse missing for the injectors?
Our BKD Touran had faults on 3 of 4 glow plugs, so I replaced them and really couldn't tell much of a difference. I don't think they'll be the heart of your problem.
Have you looked through the old threads in the forum? Loose wires, crank sensors, injectors, etc have all been to blame in the end for no-start cranking challenges.
I did have a look for "EMISSIONS GARAGE" threads but couldn't find a lot on here.Quote:
Originally Posted by VAG-Abound
The plugs tested fine however there was no voltage getting to them which, after confirming the fuse was good, was why I suspected the relay. Then the VCDS also identified the relay (or glow plug controller) as having an electrical fault... With no other codes.
Following on, I would have expected a fault code to appear if the injectors or one of the sensors was failing...
Which is why tomorrow the plan is to have a close look at the wiring, connections and fuel system.
It is an effin ball-ache that no wiring diagram nor fuse layout could be found. Don't forget this car had fuses missing when this job started.
I'm not sure you described how it had gone from running fine for 9 years to having fuses missing and not running OK, if I read correctly. Or did it run OK without the fuses :confused:?
The fuse list you cribbed from a YT video in another thread looks like it was missing a few that may do useful things in the SB set:
5: J743 Mechatronic / DSG (15A)
11: Aux heater control (20A)
15: Fuel pump relay (5A)
27: Glow plug current (50A)
The parts system ETKA clearly states that you have the wrong glow plug controller, I can cross check this with your REG number if you private message it to me.
The 038907281D does seem to be listed for BKD on other vehicles like the Touran around 2006 though. Seems to be quite a mix across different vehicles with same engine at same time, although it is the period they are changing part number. Possibly focusing retiring part to particular vehicles to simplify later recalls, etc?
Very true. Let me fill this in...Quote:
Originally Posted by VAG-Abound
The car is owned by a lady friend but is lent-out to a employee.
Some time in January he drove into another car. Nothing seemed damaged visually, although the drivers door was quite a bit out of alignment, but the car still drove fine.
In late Feb, one morning it wouldn't start with "LOW OIL PRESSURE" on the dash.
The next day, I was asked to have a look, so topped up the oil but it still wouldn't start.
After checking further, there was no fuel getting to the filter housing, and as I was off to Italy the following morning, it was taken to a local garage, who said they couldn't identify the problem without it costing a fortune so it was towed back to the lady's home.
When I returned, and as I had been in Italy, I had to do isolation, then the UK isolation kicked in, so here we are two months later...
Initially the fuel pump was tested, confirmed dead and replaced, and for the sake of a fiver, so was it's relay.
It was then that the glowplug and brake lights came on and the problem with the fuses was noticed (not sure if the garage removed them?).
After checking the glow plugs were ok (0.6Ω each) and harness under the rocker cover, as well as the fuse, and receiving zero voltage at the plugs, I suspected the relay, which VCDS agreed with.
Today is another day and the crankshaft sensor is also on the 'to check' list.
Thanks a lot for the extra fuse info.
Nice one!
It does. The Bosch number also written on it is 0 281 003 038.Quote:
Originally Posted by VAG-Abound
The shops around here have 0 281 003 083. And only that...
This is my doubt, as are the two interchangeable?
I find it very difficult to get any meaningful information from many of the online shops. OEM and decent aftermarket manufacturer catalogues can be more useful, like this: ERA.
They do suggest their part is equivalent to both the ...38 and ...83 versions.
I would say your problem is the controller you are using is for 5v glow plugs when yours are 4.4v.
Progress!
"EMISSIONS GARAGE" has gone!
Added the fuses recommended by VAG-Abound, however the "GARAGE EMISSIONS" warning was still on the dash, but did the ignition key '3 times on and off' trick, and that has finally cleared that warning.
Woohoo!
Car still doesn't start though.
VCDS now comes back with 'NO CODES FOUND' - which means that the old relay is probably fine and that particular problem was the fuses.
Does anyone happen to know the correct ohm reading for the crank sensor?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
That is again interesting. Thanks.
Might just pull a plug and confirm 100% it is working.
One other thing.
In VCDS, under Engine / Readiness / EXAHUAST GAS RECIRCULATION, it says, 'Failed or Incomplete'
Would that cause ignition failure?
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAG-Abound
Nice one. Thanks again that ERA list is great!
I read somewhere that the control module is used across voltages, and delivers whatever voltage the ECU is programmed for (but GP themseleves won't be happy with wrong voltage). No idea how true that is though...
There are other thread about the crank sensor. IIRC, watch it in VCDS to see if it has any reading, and if so that is within spec.
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAG-Abound
Crasher and others have said the BKD engine would start even without the glow plugs and I have seen another Golf Plus start with the crankshaft sensor detached, so it would appear that something else in in the mix, although I am just about to test that sensor.
It's almost like the immobiliser is on...
The EGR valve has two small holes, 180º apart, next to the diaphragm, which have been spraying out oil. particularly the one on the engine side, covering the block in a load of gunk.
Lastly. Does anyone know anyone with decent diagnostics kit in the Gloucester area?
The BKD won't run with the G28 detached. Have you viewed the cranking RPM is measuring blocks? It MUST exceed 280rpm.
Hi Crasher & Co
Got it going.
There had been an intermittent, high-ptched siren sound under the bonnet, which had remained a mystery...
Although I had tested the V157 flap by turning on and off the ignition and looking for movement, I decided to remove to rubber pipe to see if the automatic flap under the EGR was in any way choking upon ignition. It wasn't. And that was where the 'sound' was emanating.
With a friend cranking the motor, I manually pumped the flap and VOILA! we have life.
Although the V157 may have to be changed now, can someone tell me if the flap motor is supposed to whine? Surely not? The engine had been idling uneven for a while, now I think I know why.
I am also leaving the new glow plug relay in and keeping the old one (which is good) as a spare
Thank you all for your input. Much appreciated.
A whine may indicate too little current to get things moving, but I don't think that's the sort of noise you'd hear over an engine trying to start. But if you're saying the V157 isn't working properly 10A fuse in SB24 supplies it. Given the other fuse challenges, is it place and good?
Update:
Took the car for a long drive without any problem so I consider the problem resolved.
Looking back, the only real fault was the fuel pump. Everything else was down to missing fuses (***?), but there you go.
Hopefully this thread will help someone else in the future.
Thanks again for all the help.
I had a type 36 Passat in yesterday which had been playing up and would not start. The owner and breakdown chap got it going and brought it in and it was full of codes so I cleared them and re-checked, on Lambda sensor heat open circuit came back. I checked the wiring diagram and found the fuse was missing, the owner was mystified.
Presumably you still have the emissions light? If so it'll need sorting before MOT.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crasher
Wow. That is nuts...
Maybe there is a new VW fuse-thief phantom we need to watch out for...?
The "Emissions Garage" was due to a missing fuse. It was cleared using the ignition trick. So no, there are now, no faults, nor warnings.
All is good under the hood...
Blimey, what a mess :o. Pleased it's all sorted now. Good result.