Audi A6 2.7 & 3.0 TDi EGR & Intake system cleaning info please...

Hi peeps :) ...

Recently been going over data and found this in my photo library from when I changed my throttle body...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8e70b969.jpg

Above is the throttle body adapter which connect to the top section of the intake system on engine...

I don't know why I never took note of above photo before :confused:...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps34ea7f42.jpg

The red line is the throttle body which was replaced and camera shot is from that view point...

The yellow diamond is roughly the location of the clogged holes... yellow line is the EGR gas flow, blue lines when going through EGR cooler...

Cleaning throttle body adapter manually seems very doable easily as does the EGR pipe going to EGR valve (ref the the dome like thing for non mech.viewers like me :Blush:)...

I'm tempted to change EGR valve instead of cleaning (£80) and the EGR control flap & vacuum unit (£60)... the two reasons are firstly for speedier swapout, secondly the vacuum elements to these parts would be new...

I've found a used EGR cooler reasonably priced on ebay which I could clean before hand to speed up swap over...

Now that leaves the rest of the intake system the black upper/lower section... instead of removing I'm thinking Terraclean Or Link:- Diesel Intake System Cleaning
Near the latter part of this video I was amazed at the smoke :yikes:...

In the past additives have never helped me but I keep an open mind and new products are always available...

I may just do manual clean of throttle adapter and replace EGR systems parts and find and don't need to go further... ie the chemical cleaners above to clean rest of intake system...

The chemical cleaners seem so enticing as you think no part removal...

But last time when I cleaned my old throttle body I found that some of the carbon just wiped off and some was so stubborn that had to use a screwdriver to etch/scratch off :( ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psc0544cff.jpg

Above throttle was the original from factory IMO as date code 01/08/05 on it... above throttle body was replaced with new :) ...

Any advice on chemicals for manual cleaning of EGR system? any people (besides JimC64) who have also had Terraclean/BG treatment?

Hurrah hurrah! My idle MVB for EGR is finally in spec vs actual :) ...

Soon lots of photos & videos... and the usual massive posts :beerchug:...

Now what did the man :You_Rock_say:-

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a8 tech

None at the min just need to confirm if the egr side is ok, this is part when vas pc is far more powerful than vcds

So if the throttle valve is now resolved the next step i would take is to reduce the egr flow at the intake on the throttle valve by using a blanking gasket or reducing the diameter of the port hole

This will reduce the flow and again you could test it or check the egr is order (I think its leaking through when it should be off) or back to the worn injectors poor spray/dribble

Rule egr out firstly

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by a8 tech

You don't have to keep thanking me, its flattering but its hardly a glamorous job fixing cars more like a prison sentence lol

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It may not be glam mate but I am really very very thankful for your posts! everywhere ;) ...

And I'm sorry A8 Tech & Crasher for the even more massive PM's compared to my posts... they may soon get shorter :) ...

I'm really pooped tonight I've spent nearly 3 nights going over TSB/TPI's, photos of my blinking engine bay...

So tomorrow will be when normal postal service resumes :beerchug:...

I think tonight shower, nice few shots of single malt & bed :approve:...

*** WARNING IMAGES MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***

Upper manifold Bank 1 ...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8c807ffb.jpg

Lower manifold Bank 1...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f1d1b83.jpg

Upper manifold Bank 2...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psdd58f6e6.jpg

Lower manifold Bank 2...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps857429e8.jpg

*** WARNING LIVE VIDEO ACTION MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=-1pbG8Sxbxc

*** WARNING FURTHER IMAGES MAYBE DISTURBING TO VIEWERS :yikes:***

Upper manifold throttle body adapter side (adapter removed)...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps34e7f758.jpg

Zoom shot...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps1cf3616b.jpg

The throttle body adapter... please note the very constricted EGR gas ports...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps4da5b74c.jpg

Now I've had a few rants about what happened with my car when I went to Dialynx...

I know I do not have the reputation of Keith Murray... but I went with him because of his reputation...

I am self employed just like him... I chose to go with him because I thought he would do a good job...

But an epic fail viewers :( ... people may think I'm upset they are right!!

I write posts & photograph as a record of what I do to help myself & others...

I will soon be gathering all information to post a thread in the garage recommendations sections....

Now I asked when my engine was out of the car about cleaning the manifold/EGR

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gupsterg

As you know Jim just had chain rattle fix done, plus some other bits, in process of making a thread about it..

I asked the workshop the viewpoint of decoking EGR system, as engine was out and easy access...

Mechanic replied "When I did chains on my A8 I took a lot of time to decoke EGR system I felt no difference in performance unless having issues would not do" he then proceeded to view engine port holes etc and said "your engine looks clean for age/mileage I would not go down this route" so I left it at that

So only a thought have car manufacturer's already assessed that for a extensive period these items do not need cleaning/maintenance... for instance there are guidelines of engine oil, gearbox oil and various filters etc but not EGR system... and yes we may agree/disagree with some/other manufacturer recommendations

Is the port size already designed to allow for coking ... so unless flaps or valve malfunction would decoke be unnecessary

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Post from here Link:- A6 EGR location & removal "how to?" - Page 2

Other related posts to my Dialynx experience Link:- 1 2

You can see the advise above he gave :zx11:... If you ref the throttle body adapter image (last one above)...

He viewed that for me and since then and now I've done what 5-7k miles! It could never have built up to that state in those miles IMO and I'm not even of his professional skill!

I wish I'd looked then not now!

This is what Keith Murray ( Dialynx ) should have done for me...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psdb754057.jpg

I highlighted all the issues I thought I would like him to look at before booking, at booking...
I said please my car has been a problem not easy to spend £2k ish but please take time if we need to expand budget please just do right for me & let me know!

There's more to come so keep subscribed viewers :) !

The cleaning process :) ...

Step one scrape with screwdriver/tool... result below...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psfb9a2a0b.jpg

The mid clean video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ANi6YieCvE

I also used my homemade tool from injector seat cleaning... to vacuum clean TBA...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps64a1079e.jpg

Plus I used my mates air compressor to blast TBA... now the ports highlighted in red below... I used a 4mm2 elec wire bent as a hook to clean out any stubborn remnants...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps2c720a12.jpg

Then I soaked a tea towel in diesel and cleaned bigger port on TBA... then I used a cable tie to feed cloth through EGR port...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psff2cc3b5.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps8e59db5c.jpg

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psc3868a8a.jpg
2
http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps85d75a18.jpg

I repeated steps as necessary to minimise chance of carbon passing with charge air to engine...

Early signs are looking good :) .... gonna weigh the carbon from the throttle body adapter... my guess it could fill a 250g to 500g marg pot easily...

Now I can see when A8 asked to constrict port it had no effect as EGR gas was not flowing any how...

After reading the SSP about the hot film air mass it had great analogy's on how air pressure is effected by temp...

The charge air was being cooled by the intercooler system, ECU thought EGR gas was flowing when air mass was connected as EGR system is enabled then... but due to carbon constrictions hotter EGR gas was not flowing to adjust the air mass... so air mass out...

When mass air was disconnected EGR system off ECU use other calculations so car run better/fine...

On the facelift (09-11) intercooling can also be adjusted with a control flap between the two intercoolers (ref SSP), on prefacelift there is none...

There maybe more work still gonna get vacuum gauge to test vacuum system on EGR valve & cooling flap...

There will diagrams on the channelling within throttle body adapter on the EGR port section soon...

Good news Gup! Does this mean you no longer need a compression test? Is everything now fixed?

MF.

Honest answer yet fully don't know :) ... my version on Kites's signature "....If only I was as smart as this bloody car" :biglaugh:...

Car only been for few small journeys... after looking at other modules A8 is very right that the cars need time to settle... virtually all modules are constantly monitoring and adjusting things...

We may moan about design of cars but lot of this is due to how "We" want more power, better MPG, etc... laws want better emissions, etc...

All of these sensors, processes are to make it variable to factors like temperature, ageing of parts, etc and provide better power, more MPG, lower emissions, etc...

It has been such a mind opening and educational trip :D....

Wow just saw this thread now. I can't believe how much carbon is stuck. You reckon driving it at its max speed (257km/h on speedo) would clean it out? These engines are made for German autobahns where the speed limit is... well there is no speed limit lol so it could actually cope with very high speeds. Driving it ever so slowly on other roads would eventually create clogging up problems? Sounds logical to me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cwizard

Wow just saw this thread now.

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Hi ya mate :) ...

Sorry again... been so snowed... I'll PM about what been going on ;)...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cwizard

I can't believe how much carbon is stuck. You reckon driving it at its max speed (257km/h on speedo) would clean it out? These engines are made for German autobahns where the speed limit is... well there is no speed limit lol so it could actually cope with very high speeds. Driving it ever so slowly on other roads would eventually create clogging up problems? Sounds logical to me.

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First of all you really don't need to worry about the carbon in the top section of the manifold (the black pipe work), secondly you really don't need to worry about the carbon in the swirl manifolds (the lower black section)...

Please reference Sparkers(:approve:) guide here Link:- Intake Manifold Replacement and Fix - 2.7 TDi + 3.0 TDi V6 Engines
(Sorry mate just gonna steal your pic :Blush:)

http://i1258.photobucket.com/albums/...0/b7e61682.jpg

So you can see most of the carbon gets stuck in the the top/lower section.... the engine IMO runs at such a high temp in the combustion chamber its not that bad down there...

Sorry Cwizard just gonna steal that great link (:approve:), viewers ref this thread to see some internals further down the engine... Link:- Audi A4 3.0 TDI catastrophic engine failure - TDIClub Forums

Now disregard the fluid/damage from the over heated glow plugs disintegrating and damaging the engine in above linked thread...

From what I could see carbon build up is from where the EGR enter onwards in the charge air system (air intake) the intercooler section will be fine (IMO)...

I never removed any carbon in the black top or lower section.... WHY?

Well all of that carbon has built up layer upon layer, it is not creating an issue, if I started removing it I would have needed to have been so careful that any carbon never ended up going further down the engine... or do full removal and very time consuming cleaning easier to buy and replace get new flaps, links, etc..

This stuff is very hard... I feel I would never wanna use a chemical to soften or remove it as would you really want chunks running through your engine? (again IMO)

I really had to take a screwdriver to the throttle body adapter, the ports were cleaned with another tool homemade from copper wire, will explain further when upload photos of that process :) ...

I will if things go to plan just swap out the complete lower manifold for new...

I've looked at getting a complete top section (used) from Germany, then at my leisure I can clean part and put on when do the lower section...

The main aim was to restore EGR gas flow which has been achieved :beerchug:...

Idle mass air readings MVB very good now :approve: ... I have videos of before and after VCDS live diags, not yet got chance to edit and upload :Blush2:...

Keep subscribed for more soon! :) ...

Hi Gup,

I had not looked at these posts until now, sounds like you maybe getting too the bottom of this problem, well done.

When I had the manifolds removed I had noticed the holes for the EGR in the throttle body where a bit blocked up with carbon and did clean those up. The old manifolds had no where near as much carbon build up on them as those in the pictures. I always clean any thing I see when doing a job, just as a preventative measure and had not even thought about saying anything in text as I didn't have any problems. Looks like they could be a problem area as the engines clock up the miles, so if this has fixed the revs then you could have found a simple, free fix for people try if they have similar symptoms.

If this is the answer then I am so pleased for you. New glow plugs and battery and then Gup take some rest and enjoy driving.

I look forward too hearing from you that Zesty is now Peach.

Hi Sparker :) ...

Honest answer still at this moment in a grey area about if this is the fix... not driven car much other than TD of few miles Sun, Mon 6 miles, today off drive to get@van then replace back...

First start is still the worst fluctuations but less erratic, smoother fluctuations, very little engine noise variation for now that mis-fire noise has gone...

What I do know deffo has changed is cold starts ie 8 hrs or more of standing are so less laboured and still not put new battery in yet :) ...

Going over the old videos of the MVB 03 for EGR at cold idle the mass air readings were in the region of 100 to 200 mg/stroke out between data 2 & 3...

Now it is amazing difference... below is MVB screen shot after TBA cleaned...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psd679da9e.jpg
Further tests are going to be done on the EGR valve and cooling flap but like you said taking it easier :beerchug:...

You guys are my online therapy group :o and if you asked my wife she'd say I need a lot :biglaugh:...

Attachment 19057Attachment 19058

these are some of my readings... just for the heck of it... :-)

Your ECU has specified air mass of 258.5 mg/stroke, actual air mass is 334mg/stroke ...

Ref link:- audi 3.0tdi engine measurement blocks

003 Exhaust gas recirculation
1) Engine speed
At idle: 720 ... 820 rpm
2) Specified intake air mass
[mg/stroke]
3) Actual air mass
[mg/stroke]
4) EGR valve activation
[%]

010 Air quantities
1) Actual air mass
At idle: 210 ... 280 mg/stroke
At full throttle: > 1050 mg/stroke
At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar
2) Ambient air pressure
[mbar]
3) Actual charge pressure
At idle: 950 ... 1080 mbar
At full throttle: > 2150 mbar
At ambient air pressure 970 ... 1020 mbar
4) Accelerator pedal position
[%]
- With exhaust gas recirculation switched off, e.g. due to
high intake air temperature the air mass at idle may be increased
In this case press the accelerator in short bursts and check
whether the air mass then decreases.
- Additionally check air mass via basic setting of EGR
and turbocharger basic setting.

Now the text in red above is what used to throw me due to lack experience :Blush2: ...

You can check intake air temp with below MVB...

007 Temperature senders
1) Fuel temperature
to 70 °C
2) Oil temperature
Warmed-up: 70 ... 110 °C
3) Intake air temperature
to 75 °C
4) Coolant temperature
Warmed-up: 70 ... 110 °C

EGR gas has other functions as well as adjusting air mass... google for EGR functions...

I will create PDF of test drive log on Sunday and attach to this post later my air mass reading now follow each other in MVB 03 very closely now...

Post 7 has been updated with cleaning process pic & video...

Currently I believe my EGR valve & cooling flap is working correctly i) because MVB's are good now ii) visual checks done linked below...

Link:- Cooling flap check Link:- EGR valve check

I've done a fresh video for MVB's 03, 10, 22 & BM 01 to 06 this morning at very low temps of below 0c...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlPyPXe1Oa4&feature=youtu.be

Above has been the most laboured start after TBA cleaned, battery still old just fitting new today plus the lowest outside temps... will post pic of car later...

Awesome work Gup and an excellent post as always, thanks so much for sharing

Subscribed to keep abreast of updates.

Hi Sparker,

As always cheers for viewing & comments :) ...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sparker

The old manifolds had no where near as much carbon build up on them as those in the pictures.

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Were yours the original ones (lower manifolds)? What was service regime?

As you know mine is 2005 with 80K, "Long Life" servicing previous owners now had 2 in 10K... I've even seen a TSB/TPI advise that better fuel (with additives) & oil prevents engine coking... maybe mine more nasty due to "Long Life" servicing...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JimC64

Awesome work Gup and an excellent post as always, thanks so much for sharing

Subscribed to keep abreast of updates.

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Hi Jim,

Again cheers mate for support :) ... you may recall that phone conversation before I took car in for "the Chain Job" IIRC you had your reservations/suspicions of level of service that may be provided... now it looks like you were right :) ...
Well Jim next phase has been planned :beerchug:, when action at present no idea :Blush2:...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps01434996.jpg

In above image is location of EGR Cooler (Blue box), EGR cooling flap (Turq.box) & EGR Valve (Purple box)...

Below is an image I found on ebay showing the ports in EGR cooler...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6be23984.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a8 tech

no because its a 3.0 tdi and the next fault will be egr cooler

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Yes MVB's look good for EGR/Mass air but I think I could nail cleaning this with my mates air compressor... if TBA ports can block these seem smaller...
When I viewed EGR connecting pipe whilst doing TBA it had a sooty dry carbon so fingers cross blast of air should do it or pipe cleaners/homemade tool :) ...

The EGR cooling flap will also be cleaned or replaced... it looks like the cooling flap has a superseded part but EGR valve & cooler not...

Hi Gup,

I had the EGR cooler cleaned by Audi a couple of years ago when they replaced the intake manifold (due to the common failure).

A few weeks ago, I cleaned out the whole intake system (both upper and lower sections), the throttle body adapter and the throttle valve. Similar to yours, the two small holes in the adapter were completely clogged and although its a dirty job, it wasn't particularly difficult to clean.

After cleaning it feels like the car is breathing much easier :D.

Six.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by six_or_out

After cleaning it feels like the car is breathing much easier :D.

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x2, mate car really feel so much better to drive... I know it may seem to others that how much better could my car drive considering it now got new injectors (x6), throttle & MAF... plus all chains & tiptronic oil done...

But it is amazing :) ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by six_or_out

A few weeks ago, I cleaned out the whole intake system (both upper and lower sections), the throttle body adapter and the throttle valve. Similar to yours, the two small holes in the adapter were completely clogged and although its a dirty job, it wasn't particularly difficult to clean.

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My lower manifolds are original, so are the swirl motors & links... I'm hoping to do all soon :) ... how did your original manifolds look like? at that time what mileage? what service regime?

Your the second person (third me :) ) who said they've cleaned throttle body adapter... seems pretty common then IMO...

ATB
Gup

There was only one original manifold, the other was from 2009 (replaced by Audi at 90k miles). To be honest there was very little build up on them compared to your photographs. The original one had a few MM of build-up on the flaps. The one from 2009 had minimal build up on it. I used a foaming degreaser, worked a treat ;)

The car has got 144,000 miles on it now and has been on variable servicing since new.


Six.

Another query six_or_out & sparker as I'm trying to understand why my manifold/tba would be so coked up...

So six_or_out as you've been on "Long life" servicing as well that throws that out the mix but my car even if same year as yours half the mileage roughly...

So does this further reinforce that "Long life"=motorway driving/higher miles a year and "Interval"=local/lower miles a year...
My injectors were the very first revision until a month ago (059 130 277 S) now are 059 130 277 BD... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible?

What are yours? have you had replacement ever?

So sparker yours is 2006 Allroad 3.0 TDi...

What service regime? what mileage swirl manifolds done? injector rev/replacement ever?

Thanks in advance guys for input :fing02:...

What mileage have you guys decoked the throttle body adapter? how often?

It may seem like data I don't need but could help fellow V6 owners :grouphug:...

I have also found a TSB/TPI relating to this coking in the TBA (using my VIN data) so it must be common for them to have this documented!

Hi Gup,

Mine is on "Long Life" but while I have owned the car it does have an oil change every year. Original injectors. Cleaned the throttle body adapter when I did manifolds at about 62,000 miles. The holes where dirty but not blocked. Just a case of the holes being a bit bigger after cleaning than they had looked.

I had thought the EGR valve was for recirculating the gasses that build up in the engine (closed breather system) and stood for Engine Gas Recirculation. Obviously, more recently having read on this site the problems with exhaust gas recirculation I now know what they do.
In any case I would assume that if your injectors where at fault for a while then the exhaust gases would be dirtier, sootier and more contaminated, this would then be recirculating through the system and causing your lava flow looking manifold inners.

Does look like a good clean up of your system would be a good idea but thats more work more hassle!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sparker

Original injectors

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So I'm guessing yours would be (depending on prod.date):-

059 130 277 AB DROPPED 01/09/2006
059 130 277 AH DROPPED 01/04/2009

Now AH rev (2nd to last) were the longest used besides BD (the last rev)... Ref this post Link:- My old injectors

So yours would be 3 - 4 revisions newer than my old ones...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparker

In any case I would assume that if your injectors where at fault for a while then the exhaust gases would be dirtier, sootier and more contaminated, this would then be recirculating through the system and causing your lava flow looking manifold inners.

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What you've said above is what I'm thinking currently... when car used to idle it ponged really badly enough for you not to wanna stand behind it...
I just thought its a 3.0 TDi without DPF 70-80K miles so perhaps normal smell... after change of injectors even wife has commented how good exhaust fumes are :) ...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparker

Does look like a good clean up of your system would be a good idea but that's more work more hassle!

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I agree with what your saying but due to all that has been done must crack on :) ... also now after viewing it my mind thinks what if a chunk literally falls off :rolleyes:!...

To minimise hassle I'm trying to find parts to just swapped out then clean my old to keep/flog on...

I can get used top section of manifold & throttle body adapter for £35 delivered... the lower manifolds is tricking shall I buy new or just get old ones and clean up :confused:...

It took me a good while to clean the TBA and that had no moving parts and smaller...

I think I missed out on a bargain here :banghead::banghead::banghead: Link:- V.W. / Audi 3.0 tdi intake manifolds | eBay

Morning Gup,

I would think remove manifolds clean and fit with the lever and link arm repair kit. Carb cleaner and stuff like that should do the job, you probably won't get it all off like new but should get most of the carbon removed. That amount of carbon must affect the air flow, removing cleaning and servicing them should be a cheap and rewarding job (cheaper even than the £50). Just a thought but why not remove the manifolds and do the glow plugs at the same time, the glow plugs would be much more accessible.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparker

That amount of carbon must affect the air flow

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I agree, besides air flow another thing it could effect to a small degree is air pressure IMO...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparker

removing cleaning and servicing them should be a cheap and rewarding job (cheaper even than the £50).

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I agree, but my take on it is that I can have all the bits prep'd before hand, take my time cleaning them and speedier swap over...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sparker

Just a thought but why not remove the manifolds and do the glow plugs at the same time, the glow plugs would be much more accessible.

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I've also been thinking this :), also makes working on EGR system easier as well...

My ideal list of current work would be:-

1. Clean top & bottom manifolds
2. Clean EGR valve, EGR cooler & cooling flap unit (possibly vacuum test)
3. Replace glowplugs (possibly compression test)

Again the above list would be easier/quicker to do in one hit with all parts collected before hand... now I have GP's, rest of the stuff costing (some new/used) £175 only not priced swirl manifold & other test tools...

Then after running it for a while try Terraclean Link:- Terraclean anyone?? - Page 4

It may help engine or not... but I'm game after cleaning the complete intake manifold before that I think not really worth it as too much coking for it IMO...

Wow great shots, thanks for sharing. We can all learn so much from this. I would recommend using Liqui Moly's Pro Line intake system cleaner for Diesel motors, depending on how bad it is you may even be able to clean with out removing any parts. Due to the fuel manufactures meeting only the minimum government standards on fuel quality if you used a regular dose of their Super Diesel additive it will prevent this build up from happening again in the future. It worked wonders for my 2005 Jetta 1.9L TDI when this happened to me. I check the intake regularly now, and the build up never gets this bad as I keep using the Super Diesel Additive. I wish I would have taken the pictures like you did.

I would love to know why your IP comes back to Germany when you state you're in Canada?

Well be keeping an eye out then more than likely :banned:

Been doing some more research before taking apart car further...

I'd read this thread before but not really soaked the content in at the time as I was busy with the chain rattle resolution :Blush2:... the best nuggets for me :) ...

Extract from Link:- Post 1

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leoflavio

I understand a blocked or clogged EGR valve can give 'insufficient detected' reading. The EGR enters the air intake system at the Throttle valve control and could therefore be clogging that up as well.

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Extract from Link:- Post 6

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Leoflavio

Anyway. Discovered that the play in the butterfly flaps was very severe compared to the other manifold. Focused most of my cleaning endevours on this manifold - did a fair bit on the rest as well - The bottom of the manifold, once you remove the rubber gasket, allows you to remove the butterfly flaps and the 6 grommets that hold it in place. After a bit of a clean up it was clear why there was so much play. The grommets were very worn - least worn at the motor end and wear increased as you went down the line to the point furthest away from the motor arm end. The butterfly flats themselves showed some serious wear one one side. Again, least nearest the motor arm and most at the furthest point away.

Reassembled the lot, only this time swapped the grommets around so that the least wear was at the furthest point etc. This doesn't appear to be enough, but will have to act as a temp fix until I can replace correctly.

Checked out the EGR system and decided to leave that put for right now as dirt in there appeared minimal - dry powder and loose, easy off - not gummy at all. I guess the heat that it carries, even through the EGR cooler system is enough to keep it loose.
Can't say the same when it hits the fresh air flow. Mixes with oil residues etc and gums up nicely in the manifold a little way down.

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Now when I viewed EGR connecting pipe to throttle body adapter bold text in above quote was what I was seeing...

Next a great video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL4VwMKO0Pg

I know above info from thread/video is different VAG cars but same engine same issues...

I don't have any fault codes relating to swirl manifold system...

I have had no fault codes to my issues as such other than the throttle body...

Even when EGR flow was low causing the idle air mass readings to be out there were no faults codes...

I just hope when I get to the stage of cleaning the lower manifolds I do not remove deposits of carbon which are helping to reduce play on the butterfly system :Blush2:...

My lower manifold part no's

059 129 711 T (Bank 2), dropped 01/06/2006...

059 129 712 H (Bank 1), dropped 01/12/2005...

The manifolds that I purchased from Germany where fully rebuilt with uprated parts, butterflies, etc. I had thought after the linkage repair parts had become available that maybe the new manifolds where an over kill and a waste of some money as they probably don't wear out. Now I think it was money well spent. Cleaned, uprated and no play.

Hi Sparker,

I'm just buying up the bits I need to do next stage of work :) ...

How are the new parts in manifolds uprated? indepth description/photos be handy...

I know it maybe more £££ I'm blowing but at mo when weather right I just wanna undo bits once and do it all and then sit back...

I don't wanna keep undoing parts to get at say glowplugs, lower manifold, EGR system, etc...

When car had been in for the chain rattle fix I had hoped all would be done in one hit, it's just been an unrelenting struggle with this car with all the issues :Blush2:...

But its met one stubborn owner ;) ... at times I feel so happy when I resolve things :) ... then at times I feel so low :( ...

Anyway lets get that data :)... so many bits are new & if the rest are renewed that remap should yield some good results :biglaugh:...

ATB
Gup

Here is a copy of what they do to the manifolds.

Manifolds offered on this listing are used, genuine VAG ones which underwent a unique process of complete remanufacture & reinforcement at our workshop restoring them to fully working order.During the process, crucial manifold parts have been singled out with new ones. This includes complete replacement of:

• swirl flaps
• swirl flaps bearings
• swirl flaps control levers
• actuator connecting lever

to specially fitted, stronger units.

Result is a product of greatly increased durability - thus a perfect replacement choice for all 2.7 - 3.0 TDI engine owners.

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrazyBoutCars

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

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If I'm wrong then please accept my apologies.

It's just that your first two posts were recommending a product and your location didn't match your IP address and most spam accounts are like this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gupsterg

Another query six_or_out & sparker as I'm trying to understand why my manifold/tba would be so coked up...

So six_or_out as you've been on "Long life" servicing as well that throws that out the mix but my car even if same year as yours half the mileage roughly...

So does this further reinforce that "Long life"=motorway driving/higher miles a year and "Interval"=local/lower miles a year...
My injectors were the very first revision until a month ago (059 130 277 S) now are 059 130 277 BD... Link:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible?

What are yours? have you had replacement ever?

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Hi Gup,

Still on the original injectors, I don't know what the part numbers are. I can check once the weather clears up :o.

Only one intake manifold was replaced in 2009, along with 2 glow plugs. The other 4 are still the original ones as far as I'm aware. I use shell V-Power diesel most of the time or regular diesel with a shot of Redex if V-Power isn't available. I don't know if that makes any difference....

Six.

Cheers guys for info :) ... I think whatever's caused the carbon I won't get to the bottom of it :Blush2:...

Since owning I've used V-power/ESSO supreme diesel... injector cleaner was ran several times before injector change to new rev...

The car has had two oil changes in 10k miles under my ownership... last nite ordered more as I never changed oil after injector change... I was real careful not to contaminate engine when doing the change...

Once intake/EGR/glowplugs done will change oil... just ordered bits for the EGR cleanup as well... will also do new seals from Audi...

I can officially state that using Liqui Moly Diesel Clean & Boost

has made my engine run much smoother. The rev fluctuation has mostly disappeared. I did use a huge lot more than what they tell you to use. I'm going to change the fuel filter in the next few days.
I still can't get to the bottom of those revs jumping up and down while driving. I've even noticed since yesterday that my gearbox has been very clucky when changing into 3rd from 4th and into 5th from 4th. Try giving yours a bit of liqui moly diesel clean & boost and see what happens.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Cwizard

I can officially state that using Liqui Moly Diesel Clean & Boost has made my engine run much smoother. The rev fluctuation has mostly disappeared. I did use a huge lot more than what they tell you to use. I'm going to change the fuel filter in the next few days. Try giving yours a bit of liqui moly diesel clean & boost and see what happens.

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Will do mate :fing02: ...

Ok peeps :) ...

Earlier this week the spline bits came to allow dismantling of the EGR system further... but I've also been shopping for other parts :) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WB31nEVhyDU

So in above the big rectangle ports are what meets the EGR cooler... the round section is the straight through when EGR cooler not being used... the two pipes top and bottom are coolant connections to cool this module and EGR as well ... we can also see the vacuum unit at top and its default position and of the butterfly in the straight through section...

Next SRT88 has kindly given be these pictures, so thanks mate :beerchug:...

Bank 1

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5d8f3122.jpg

Bank 1 Zoom

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps5243935d.jpg

Bank 2

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps7f5c411f.jpg

Bank 2 Zoom

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps32b28802.jpg

Above photos are form a VW Phaeton Feb 2007 3.0TDI mileage unknown...

I've also been scouring ebay/forums for other images of manifolds and most are a little more coated than above but yet to see some like mine :( ...

I've even seen some pics of same part no manifolds as mine and not the same lava like coating :aargh4:...

God knows what gone on with my cars manifolds :(...

The EGR valve is here now :) ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EC980Ou2dg&feature=youtu.be

Now waiting on some inlet manifolds ;) ...

Nice n' shiny :-) :beerchug: good luck with the new part.

this is awesome info man - thanks for taking the time to write it all up! I'm about to tackle my EGR and carbon on my B7 2.7 V6 TDi and this is really useful info and pic!

hope all works out good for you! I'll be keeping an eye on this! :D

Thank you for viewing :) ... Thank you acknowledging how viewing the videos/photos it is helping you :) ...

As owners we don't see these things... by viewing them we can make better judgements on what we can do/get done...

Sorry about slow progress but weather been hindering me :Blush2:...

Many a time I have thought I'll leave airing my gripes/issues as:-

i) may make selling my car hard...

ii) very time consuming to take photos/videos and editing/uploading...

iii) if I was not taking the media shots it would mean I finish a job quicker as well...

BUT I find it hard sometimes to visualise stuff from text... I read threads and lack of detail or media make them hard to follow to do yourself/understand...

I know it may sound selfish but I have given alot vs taking from this forum... but soon I must just stop posting :Blush2:...

However much I dress it up this car has been soul destroying further exaggerated by the poor detail of work by garages I've been to...

When you employ profesionals who do things for a living/day in day out you expect them to be better than amateurs like me!

I will be finishing the threads I've started before I become a lurker...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CrazyBoutCars

I just thought I could help by sharing my experience. Being a passionate VW owner like yourselves. In my spare time and yes even on vacation I like to see what others are doing with their vdubs. Thanks anyway for the opportunity to share and be helpful thanks and good bye.

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Crazy - I understand your frustration as all you did was post some helpful info with a link to a product you felt may be of use in this situation, you clearly felt you were jumped on immediately. Its unlike Chris as far as I know and perhaps we've been having spam issues I'm not aware of.
Don't let this skew your view of an otherwise pretty good forum, hopefully you continue to enjoy the site

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gupsterg

Thank you for viewing :) ... Thank you acknowledging how viewing the videos/photos it is helping you :) ...

As owners we don't see these things... by viewing them we can make better judgements on what we can do/get done...

Sorry about slow progress but weather been hindering me :Blush2:...

Many a time I have thought I'll leave airing my gripes/issues as:-

i) may make selling my car hard...

ii) very time consuming to take photos/videos and editing/uploading...

iii) if I was not taking the media shots it would mean I finish a job quicker as well...

BUT I find it hard sometimes to visualise stuff from text... I read threads and lack of detail or media make them hard to follow to do yourself/understand...

I know it may sound selfish but I have given alot vs taking from this forum... but soon I must just stop posting :Blush2:...

However much I dress it up this car has been soul destroying further exaggerated by the poor detail of work by garages I've been to...

When you employ profesionals who do things for a living/day in day out you expect them to be better than amateurs like me!

I will be finishing the threads I've started before I become a lurker...

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Wow Gup - you make it sound like you're leaving the forum almost......why?

Please believe me when I say that I and many many others really appreciate your lengthy indepth posts usually c/w many pictures & or videos clearly showing the process involved.
Its posts like these that help to make this and other forums and the posts that members need to help them to resolve their issues with their vehicles. Posts with 28 lines of unbroken text explaining do this, then do that, unbolt this and remove that, really don't help anywhere near as much.

You have probably given as much if not way more than most here and we need more members like you, not less!

I for one sincerely hope you continue on here and post as you have done in the past, your posts have been an invaluable source of information for many. I've been fortunate enough to share a few posts / comments back n forth and count you as a friend and one I'm glad to know.

Thanks Gup :beerchug: