Dealer Negligence negated my insurance for 12 months.... What action to take

I picked up new A6 S Line in January 2012. Included in spec as per sales invoice was installation of cobra tracker.

I am renewing my insurance and decided to shop around ..... Audi Insurance through Allianz absolutely shocking, do not touch them with barge pole, happy to share in another post.

New insurers asked me for details of tracker but dealer had not provided any details beyond sales patter and a line on the invoice. Audi dealer would not return my calls, turned out sales man who sold me car had left, no one interested in checking Tracker details.

In the end I phoned Cobra who confirmed a tracker was fitted but dealer had not activated it; therefore I have not been driving around for 12 months without what I paid for. Worst of all as the tracker was not activated, in the event of a major loss, it was highly unlikely insurer would not pay out.

New insurer confirmed this would be likely scenario... Haven't told old insurer!!

I am absolutely furious and would welcome advice on how to proceed

Insurers don't always get the best rap, but I think if you have purchased the item and through no fault of your own it wasn't working (for which there can be many reasons) I highly doubt they would refuse to pay out.

I'd be inclined to speak to or email the dealer principle at the Audi dealer first of all, and see if a swift and amicable solution can be arrived at (namely activation of the tracker). Failing that, you are most likely going to be into small claims court territory to recover the activation cost and any subsequent increased insurance premium costs until such times as the tracker is activated (plus legal costs of course).

I don't think that Audi would be interested, as its not one of their products - Cobra may be interested though, as the dealer has clearly sold one of their products (and potentially many more) without proper activation; at the least this could damage Cobra's reputation.

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Originally Posted by Blackmore Spur

I am absolutely furious and would welcome advice on how to proceed

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I can understand why you are miffed, but you can't change what's already happened.

I had a bit of trouble with the double negatives in this paragraph:

'In the end I phoned Cobra who confirmed a tracker was fitted but dealer had not activated it; therefore I have not been driving around for 12 months without what I paid for. Worst of all as the tracker was not activated, in the event of a major loss, it was highly unlikely insurer would not pay out.'

but if I read it correctly, you are no worse off than you were a year ago other than having a non-activated tracker.

Presumably the premium you paid a year ago took the installation of a fully-functioning tracker into account, so you haven't paid more than you should have.

As luck would have it you haven't needed to claim in the past year, so you haven't been inconvenienced in that regard either. Sure, you might have had to claim, and your insurers may well have not paid out, but neither of those things actually happened.

I accept that you have spent the past year under the assumption - quite rightly - that you were driving a car with a working tracker, but you are where you are, and you can only go forward from here.

Since you haven't suffered any actual loss of any kind, can you not just get the tracker activated and renew your insurance?

Other than making you feel better about someone else's dereliction of responsibility in not having activated the tracker, is there much to be gained by seeking any other kind of recompense?

If I were you, I'd dash off a stiffly-worded letter to an appropriate Audi person and expect a fulsome apology in return.

That'd make me feel better, I reckon.

I'd also be grateful that I didn't pause to tie my shoelaces underneath a falling grand piano at any time in the past year while making sure I was wearing some suitably sturdy headgear for the forthcoming one.

Apology for the offending "not" and double negative.... but assume the key message is decipherable to all.

I have to disagree with last message; if I take out insurance I expect the level of cover that I have paid for. I paid in good faith for tracker coverage for 12 months, which is in my mind was a form of insurance. Audi took my money but did not provide the service and their actions put my auto insurance at risk in the event of a major claim. Under the sale of goods act I am entitled to receive goods and services I have paid for.

I do not accept Audi are anything other than negligent in failing to provide the goods I paid for and the fact I haven't had to claim is an irrelevance.

I have contacted the Sales Manager who is calling me back Monday... Will keep you all posted

Don't blame you being annoyed but you can do little about the last 12 months, particularly as the offending salesman is no longer with Audi. However, I would certainly be pressing for the supplying dealer to activate the tracker and pay for the next 12 months. Bearing in mind you have not suffered any loss as such (yes, I do take your point about possible insurance implications for the past 12 months but they are 'past'), you will actually come out of it better off in the long run if the dealership pays for the activation and the next 12 months; you've had 12 months paying a lowered insurance premium because they thought you had a tracker and the next 12 months will be lower because you will have an active tracker. Play the disappointed customer who will never go back to Audi for a new car as a result of this well enough and they may even chuck you a new set of floor mats as a sweetener!

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Originally Posted by Blackmore Spur

Apology for the offending "not" and double negative.... but assume the key message is decipherable to all.

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Nit-picking your syntax wasn't the object of the exercise, and I apologise if you thought it was.

We'll have to agree to disagree over the way forward, but I am interested to know what kind of reparation you are expecting from Audi.

You must have some notion as to what it'll take to smooth your ruffled feathers - and I do understand why they are ruffled.

Wise words from you both and now my ire has subsided, as you say I am limited in what I can expect..... But worth a try and getting them to pay for this year. It's just so irritating and shoddy.

Their attitude was summed up by a friend who recently took delivery of a Q5 after much delay..... Seats and other things were wrong; their response was to say give it back, we'll have no trouble selling it!

This is by no means the first issue I have had and sadly exemplifies my poor experiences dealing with Audi as a first time customer. The car is the most amazing well constructed piece of "beautiful" technology... But as things stand I don't think I am very unlikely to be a repeat customer

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Originally Posted by Blackmore Spur

the fact I haven't had to claim is an irrelevance.

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It's highly relevant. If you are actually interested in the legal position, rather than just letting off steam, then the word you're missing here is "causation". What loss has the Audi dealer's breach of contract caused you ? You need to be clear about that if you're thinking taking it any further than a goodwill settlement with the Audi dealer.

Sorry Blackmore - may have edited my own post after you responded: was trying to be terser, but not trying to be mean !

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Originally Posted by a8toa6convert

the word you're missing here is "causation". What loss has the Audi dealer's breach of contract caused you ?

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Is it not a text book case of Promissory Estoppel?​ Although a loss might have been incurred, it wasn't.

Presumably you paid cash for the car if you are intending on quoting the Sales of Goods Act...for most HP or even settled HP purchases it's the Supply of Goods (Implied Terms) Act that affects you I believe.

I only ask in case you intend to start screaming at the dealership and aren't armed fully with the facts. Also, if it was purchased through Audi Finance (even if you paid it off within the 14 day cooling off period like we did) your beef is still with the finance company as that's who you effectively bought the car from, not the dealership.

In the case of complaining to Audi Finance (VWFS), I wish you luck in finding a reasonable person to deal with. Our complaint originally about the car and various dealerships (including poor service from VWFS) is now being dealt with by the Financial Ombudsman Service as VWFS & Audi have let us down spectacularly.

I assume you're fully comp? In that case I think the insurer would be obliged to pay out to replace the car if it was stolen and sue the dealer as it was his fault the tracker wasn't activated. I could be wrong but it seems straightforward to me. I doubt you have much grounds to sue the dealer, I would have thought your insurance premium was lower because of the tracker so you're not out of pocket and if we could sue for "what if" we'd all be millionaires.

My take on the whole thing is I would feel upset if this had happened to me... I would feel like Blackmore Spur...

I couldn't see him saying he wish to sue... I thought in 1st post he ask for advice how to proceed with dealer...

In post 5 I felt he is merely stating that he is entitled to goods he's paid for...

Yes luck has meant he did not need to claim on Ins... yes he had lower premium but he did not lie to insurer but dealer is at fault for not fulfilling the service/product purchased...

IMO it is irrelevant that sales guy has left, the dealer sold the car, he paid dealer, they should bend over backwards for him IMO...

He would have been the one picking up the pieces/chasing people if something had happened and he needed to claim on Ins. and if complications had arisen due to tracker not being activated...

I would want Cobra subscription done, apology from dealer and goodwill shown in the form of say free servicing, better service, etc... to improve my perception of them...

Stick with it and get your moneys worth from dealer!

What other action is open to him apart from suing? Goodwill? these guys charge a tenner for a 99p bottle of screenwash! The won't take his calls etc hard to discuss anything with a receptionist. I was trying to put some of the arguments they would use. I doubt Audi would do more than refer him back to the dealer. When I get bad service and I cannot resolve the matter I take my money elsewhere.

Thanks for all your posts. I fully accept the comments re legal position and that as nothing DID go wrong I have no reasonable chance of..... Whatever I wanted when I put the phone down from Cobra.

As a young man I had the naive view that quality names and products added another certainty to life beyond death and taxes... The depressing reality now I can afford to access these brands is regardless of how much you spend you can still take nothing for granted.

"You pays your money you take your choice" The reality is you have the power when choosing and have the money in your hand.... Once spent you are in their hands. Next time round my money is unlikely to be entrusted to Audi

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Originally Posted by Blackmore Spur

Thanks for all your posts. I fully accept the comments re legal position and that as nothing DID go wrong I have no reasonable chance of..... Whatever I wanted when I put the phone down from Cobra.

As a young man I had the naive view that quality names and products added another certainty to life beyond death and taxes... The depressing reality now I can afford to access these brands is regardless of how much you spend you can still take nothing for granted.

"You pays your money you take your choice" The reality is you have the power when choosing and have the money in your hand.... Once spent you are in their hands. Next time round my money is unlikely to be entrusted to Audi

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I would be quite annoyed in your position, too. I would be asking the dealership (the fact that the rep who sold you the car has left is irrelevant) to activate the tracker and to fund a further year's Cobra coverage. In my opinion that is the very least they are morally obliged to do. I would hope they would also offer you some sort of goodwill gesture on top of this - maybe an extra year's subscription or a free service? If I was in your position I would be explaining politely but firmly to the dealer how disappointed I was and how I expected better of them.

Good luck!!

MF.

The service (and a valet if you feel like pushing your luck) would be a good gesture, It depends on the dealer but IMO they think they are as prestige as the marque they sell and are above questioning or discussion.

To be fair, my dealer is really good in that respect. If they screw things up, they try their best to make amends and make me happy again. That's how I got my boot liner :)

MF.

My car from an indi dealer, 6 year old Audi, 70K on clock, £10K.... my dealer experience...

Whilst doing a recall my local dealer said did you know rear washer not working... I said no... £140 to investigate, I said I'll pop back, quick google as mine an Avant plastered over the net about rear washer pipe work fault...
I ring up and moan & rant very heavily... they said sorry, thank you for telling us, please come back and we will help! ... I said thanks but no thanks! my bluetooth module is swimming in water! all thanks to your tech testing washer too much, if it is plastered over the net you guys must know about this? they said we can apologise and try better next time...

Next visit I inform service advisor I expect better... so no charge for courtesy car... parts & labour discounted... they also fix a slow puncture FOC which I kinda knew about...

Another visit get an even better courtesy car for free... again very competitive prices that even an indi could not beat for work done!

Twice side light bulbs changed FOC, on mine they need remove air filter housing or power steering reservoir to get access...

Another visit they adjusted the self levelling headlights FOC as another garage had botched work...

Missing out some other visits my last one they coded engine control module wrongly... again I was given top priority on the following day and they coded and returned car within a hour...

My car's history is pretty colourful when it comes to issues!

Now they know when I/my A6 turn up they better have their socks pulled up otherwise I will be back to get my £££ worth...

If I'd paid what a C7 A6 costs trust me the dealer would have got a lot of heat! especially if it meant that if a Ins.claim had arisen and could have been rejected due to lack of tracker activation!

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Originally Posted by Blackmore Spur

I fully accept the comments re legal position and that as nothing DID go wrong I have no reasonable chance of.....

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You must stress what position it could have put you in if things went wrong...

An update.....Finally tracked down original salesman who had moved to another branch of dealership..... This was after several unreturned calls to my sales manager.

By Monday he just did what I did and phoned Cobra... Coming back and blaming them for problem... Funny that as Cobra blamed him unequivocally!

Up shot is I am now £138 poorer and still waiting to hear back from dealer in response to my request for them to reimburse me for the 138 in view of their mess up.

Three days later and no response by close of business so just sent a reminder email

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

It's interesting that the missing salesman only moved laterally, the problem would seem to be to be with the dealership. How would Cobra know to activate your tracker without his sayso?

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Originally Posted by Timothy Nathan

Is it not a text book case of Promissory Estoppel?​ Although a loss might have been incurred, it wasn't.

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Bl**dy hell, Lord Denning, you sprang that out of nowhere ! But no, promissory estoppel, or any similar doctrine of reliance / change of position, are what you want to invoke where there has been a loss, but no contract. Here we have a contract, but no loss.

One could ask. would the car have been any cheaper without Cobra?

I paid around 500 for a Cobra Tracker that was not activated.... Feels like fraud or theft!! Guess what....two emails five phone messages later and no reply from the salesman. Getting even more annoyed now at blatant rudeness.... Next step sales manager, then letter to dealer parent company and then Audi UK. I expect nothing back but on point of principle I will now take this as far as I can

I think if you paid for it and it wasn't activated to all intent and purpose you didn't have it. You expect a wall to have damp proofing and you don't have to check it's there yourself, however as you paid for it the assumption is if it rains you're protected. Did you try a direct approach to the salesman?

Just an extra 2¢-worth ...

I'm in general agreement with the trend the thread has taken.
A service was paid for and it was never supplied or delivered. It's like receiving a box from Amazon, not opening it for a year, and then finding it was empty all along. They should clearly supply or refund. Any further arrangement to cover recompense/compensation/apology is a matter of negotiation.

I think it would be unreasonable to commence that negotiation on the basis that if you had received the, say, map you had ordered, you wouldn't have lost your way while hill-walking, you would have avoided falling off that cliff, and you wouldn't have incurred all these medical expenses as a result. Amazon shouldn't be held responsible for all these hypothetical consequences. In this (badly-fitted) analogy you didn't go hill-walking.

Coming to issue of where to obtain refund etc ... I think the errant salesman is irrelevant, as is Audi. I don't know for sure, but presumably this was not a purchase from the salesman operating as a sole trader on behalf of Cobra? Your contract will have been with the salesman's employer, the dealership. Forget about the individual, the company has the responsibility to fulfil the contract. (You wouldn't blame the warehouse packer in Amazon for the medical expenses - that missing map would have been "Amazon"s problem.). Equally I think Audi UK will say it was a contract with a dealer acting as an agent of Cobra, not as an agent of Audi, so they will be disinterested.

On the other hand, I do think that hypotheticals have some part to play in these negotiations. Insurance itself is the ultimate hypothetical: we are all required to engage in it, "just in case". So with the Cobra system. The whole point of having it is based on a hypothetical (what if the car gets stolen ...?). I think you should pursue your overall argument with an element of this stirred in, but don't make it the whole cornerstone of your argument.

My starting point for discussions would be -
non-negotiables: activate Cobra now, as expected when fitted, with full functionality as specified in purchase contract.
negotiables: free of charge extension of Cobra contract for 'xx' months; letter of apology; full valet every three months for duration of contract; Audi key-ring etc etc

Make up your own list of negotiables, but be prepared to concede on some. That is the whole point of negotiation. Don't go looking for revenge - that way disaster lies! Assess each item on your list from two points of view and mark them accordingly: the cost for the dealer to supply (hi, med, lo) and the value to you (hi, med, lo). The best items to push for are the hi-value ones that are easy for the dealer to provide. Don't hang out for something like free insurance cover for life - that will cost the dealer real money (he has to pass it someone else). Go for things that can be provided as part of his operating overheads, things he does for others anyway.

Finally, offer to write a testimonial if they fix things to your complete satisfaction - offer them some kind of carrot. Recovering from a screw-up is a very important part of any business's customer care ability. Be prepared to write this off as an innocent mistake or carelessness on someone's part rather than a vindictive attempt to defraud you. I'd bet it is more likely to be the former.

Good luck with all this - let us know how you get on. I hope you get satisfaction.

Also, do try and find out the contractual position regarding Cobra, the Dealer and Audi UK, I bet they all have a finger in the pie somehow, but no-one ever seems to know.

Be sure to let us know.

Thanks for all your very sound advice. I got some excellent legal advice from a lawyer friend and worded letter/email accordingly. Upon receipt of the email I was phoned by dealer within minutes no less than 6 times ( I was in meeting so couldn't take call) I was then phoned at home later in the evening by the Business Manager. Fulsome apology, tracker subscription paid for.

Technically I am not out of pocket....but less than happy that dealership ( a large chain of several show rooms across Essex) treat customers so poorly unless you really fight. Needless to say I would never buy so much as a replacement bulb from them again... Caveat emptor!!!! have advised all friends and family to avoid them!!

Hi, that's very interesting and good news.

Could you PM me a copy of the message text to place in my armoury for future use. I would be very grateful!

Cheers

Jon

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Originally Posted by jbanfie

Hi, that's very interesting and good news.

Could you PM me a copy of the message text to place in my armoury for future use. I would be very grateful!

Cheers

Jon

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As would I.

I was going to ask that it be put into the "how to" section as a permanent resource, suitable stripped of personal details of course.