2006 A4 Avant S-Line Tdi 170 Performance Issues - Please Help!

First time poster with no mechanical knowledge so please bear with me…

I have recently purchased a 2006 A4 Avant S-Line Tdi 170 with 72k on the clock from a well known car supermarket. My previous car was a 2004 VW Golf GT Tdi 140. I have found the performance of the A4 to be bellow what I was expecting and wonder if anybody could shed some light on whether or not my expectations were realistic or if I maybe have a fault.
On my daily commute to work I am averaging 43mpg in the A4. I used to regularly get 62mpg in the Golf. Is this an acceptable level of economy for the A4? I was led to believe from the published figures that I would get well into the 50mpg region.
I find that the A4 only accelerates well in 1st to 3rd gear. 4th to 6th just isn’t happening. This is a real problem when pulling out to overtake Lorries which I need to do a lot on my commute (hence opting for a diesel over a petrol engine).
Occasionally I notice a strong almost gassy smell coming from the exhaust.
When I am idling I notice that the engine occasionally misses and hunts.
The car did have a new fuel filter and cam belt when I bought it and has a full Audi service history. There are no fault lights or indications on the instrumentation.
The car is booked in to go back to the dealer on Thursday. What should I ask them to look at? I could do with a bit of a list if any body could help? I hear that a8 tech is the font of all Audi knowledge.

Many Thanks :)

No that does not sound right, possibly a blocked diesel particulate filter but that should bring on the warning light. The first thing the Audi dealer will do is to carry out a fault code read and see if anything is stored and if the cam belt was not done by a main dealer, they may want to check the cam timing.

Thanks for the speedy response. The car is going back to the car supermarket under there warranty and not the Audi garage which is why I could do with a bit of list so they don’t just fob me off. I want them to carry out actual visual checks as well as connecting the vagcom thingy as am I right in guessing that clogged pipes and things like that won’t register on there?
Thanks for the help for heroes support ;)

If the selling company can do a proper fault code read that is OK but you may end up taking it to Audi or a specialist for a second opinion.

i also have just purchased an A4 2.0 tdi 170bhp s line and like you i am very dissapointed with the economy and performance.
i have just traded in from a Saab 9-3 tid 120 bhp and i have no doubt in my mind the Saab was quicker and much more economical i am beginning to think i have made a mistake in the purchase of my 170 bhp A4.

As for the fuel economy, around 40mpg for a PD 170 sounds about right. Apparently there is a significant drop in economy compared with the 2.0 TDi 140, which will average 48 - 50mpg. Check out these threads for other 170 owners' fuel econ stats:

https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/s...0+fuel+economy

https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/s...0+fuel+economy

Update: On the 50 mile commute to work this morning I tried to get the best I could out of the car. Not once did I venture above 2k revs and I stuck at a steady 56mph when cruising. This is exactly the same route and driving style that used to see me achieve 62mpg in the Golf and what did I get from my A4? 44.2mpg! I could accept the massive difference in economy if the car was worth it for its performance but its just not. As I have stated in my previous post, when in high gears it feels as if somebody has put a magic break on. It progresses through the rev range but it is in absolutely no hurry. I am gutted. Somebody please tell me what I need to get the garage to check. I have no idea where to start. Please please please!

I can't comment upon the performance, however the fuel economy sounds about right for the 2.0 TDi 170...sorry to be the bearer of bad news. :(

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crmason

Update: On the 50 mile commute to work this morning I tried to get the best I could out of the car. Not once did I venture above 2k revs and I stuck at a steady 56mph when cruising. This is exactly the same route and driving style that used to see me achieve 62mpg in the Golf and what did I get from my A4? 44.2mpg! I could accept the massive difference in economy if the car was worth it for its performance but its just not. As I have stated in my previous post, when in high gears it feels as if somebody has put a magic break on. It progresses through the rev range but it is in absolutely no hurry. I am gutted. Somebody please tell me what I need to get the garage to check. I have no idea where to start. Please please please!

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And when you find out let me know ;)

Me too!!!

Hi all,

If anybody can get in touch with a8 tech can they please point him this way for his opinion. The car goes back this evening and diagnostics start in the morning. Im just dreading them trying to say there is nothing wrong and me not having the knowledge to ask them what they need to check!

Many thanks.

if you're certain (and further to advice given above) there's something amiss and assuming the car warehouse say there's no fault, get the car to a main dealer. Get them to do a full diagnostic assessment - assuming faults are found, take the vehicle, the report and the bill for it to the car warehouse and insist they remedy the fault.

That said, it wouldn't be in the car warehouse's interest to fob you off.

If possible provide the engine ecu part number and software version.

I can check what sw update you have as some move the torque to prevent clutch slip.
mpg is fine and 40 to 44 mpg is common for b7 170 bhp (remember they are heavier than a mark 5 golf).
The turbo range is low down and top end loses its grunt, If fuel quantity and boost is ok I would recommend a remap to move the torque curve to your requirements.
As you are used to the lighter golf which also has differing software I advise you drive a similar 170 a4 and compare.
I can confirm the a3 is more responsive then the b7 a4 so it stands to reason you may be expecting similar performance and have overlooked the weight and ecu settings the b7 170 requires to meet emission regs and optimum mpg for its weight and body style plus gear ratio.

I'd like to add to Crasher and A8's remarks with ,check the cat if you are getting gaseous smells

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a8 tech

If possible provide the engine ecu part number and software version.

I can check what sw update you have as some move the torque to prevent clutch slip.
mpg is fine and 40 to 44 mpg is common for b7 170 bhp (remember they are heavier than a mark 5 golf).
The turbo range is low down and top end loses its grunt, If fuel quantity and boost is ok I would recommend a remap to move the torque curve to your requirements.
As you are used to the lighter golf which also has differing software I advise you drive a similar 170 a4 and compare.
I can confirm the a3 is more responsive then the b7 a4 so it stands to reason you may be expecting similar performance and have overlooked the weight and ecu settings the b7 170 requires to meet emission regs and optimum mpg for its weight and body style plus gear ratio.

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Thanks very much for your reply a8 tech. The car is in the garage today so i will post what they come back with. Where would i find the ecu part number and software version?

Thanks again.

Thanks also fourringsrus

UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the garage. They have put a new egr valve on and are now going to conduct further tests. They have offered no reason as to why they have done this. What could cause them to replace the valve? Do they fail or get blocked? I dont even know what they do or where they are lol.

Cheers.

they do fail but often there are fault codes or complete lack of power.I suspect the garage has its guessing hat on.
ecu p/n and sw version can be found by vag com or similar
go to address 01 and via vag com and the information will be retrievable

One answer.. get em remapped! The 170s were recalled under warranty to down rate the power, to save clutch and p.d.f. life. I bought one 6 months since and thought it was crap. Had it checked over and nobody could find a thing. Checked the service invoices which came with the car and found one for a software update. I googled the software part number and people reported after having the update done a lack of power.
Spend a few hundred quid for a good quality remap and your car will pull like a train.

CORRECT, the sw update moved the torque to prevent the high number of clutch failure which occurred but also the update could be reversed.Remap is the solution but ensure its trusted tuner so you do not suffer premature dpf failure or even ask for dpf off if they can as some do and some don't.

Thanks for the advice on remaps. It is somthing I want to do. Any suggestions for a trusted tuning company in my area? I'm in Norfolk but am willing to travel. Or, will any of the well advertised online companies be ok?

hi all

have any of you managed to get a satisfactory solution to this?

I have 2 TDI cars, a 2005 140 Seat Leon and a 2007 170 A4. On the same trip I get typically 20mpg more fom the Seat.

I also get un-even lumpy running at about 1500-2000 rpm sometimes if this is at all relevant.

This is obviously a disapointment.

The Bose stereo sounds good in the audi though.

Billy

Thanks for all your help. I am going to take the car in to Audi Huntingdon for a diagnostics for a second opinion and for peace of mind. I think it will be worth the £60. Assuming that all comes back fine i am looking at taking the car to MotechPerformance in Wellingborough to have a remap done. Does anybody have any reviews of this company?
The garage said there was nothing wrong with the car stereo. I think it has just been poorly wired where the parrott has been installed. I will get the audio centre, where i am getting a window tint done, to have a look at it for me when it goes in. As i say hopefully its just poorly earthed or something simple like that.
Have a great weekend everybody :-)

UPDATE: I emailed the garage this morning to inform them that i was still not entirely happy and that i planned to take the car in to Audi for them to run there own diagnostics. The garage then called me straight back and asked me if they could have another look at it. Me thinks somebody maybe was telling fibs when they said they had done all the checks i had asked them to do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billy-fish

I have 2 TDI cars, a 2005 140 Seat Leon and a 2007 170 A4. On the same trip I get typically 20mpg more fom the Seat.

This is obviously a disapointment.

Billy

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I'm afraid it's a known fact that the 170s are not as fuel efficient as the 140s... :(

I wish i had been on this forum before purchasing a 170:( i would have gone for a 140 instead.

All is not lost i have been on the internet researching remaps and all i find is good results.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by billy-fish

hi all

have any of you managed to get a satisfactory solution to this?

I have 2 TDI cars, a 2005 140 Seat Leon and a 2007 170 A4. On the same trip I get typically 20mpg more fom the Seat.

I also get un-even lumpy running at about 1500-2000 rpm sometimes if this is at all relevant.

This is obviously a disapointment.

The Bose stereo sounds good in the audi though.

Billy

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hesitation between 1500 and 2000 rpm can be caused by clogging piezo injectors

some dealers have a ultrasonic bath to clean them but also there is a software update for this which alters egr flow and stops the hesitation :beerchug:

Thanks A8 Tech, just wondering whtat other symptoms I would get...

I had a limp mode event yesterday on a long run. 0299 0665 I think. Underboost from memory, with cruise on doing 75mph

Also when I took the car in to Audi for its 130k service a couple of weeks ago they commented on dirty fuel in the filter and suggested a tank clean.

I used a bottle of Forte but it does not seem to have improved things much.

Does this all mean much?

Any suggestions?

Billy

just been surfing the forums and one guy says he had similar probs to me on a VW van that seened vaccuum related and was resolved by replacing the egr cooler.???
Please A8 could you summarise what are the general symptoms of egr cooler failures.

cheers

Billy

UPDATE: As i posted earlier, i wasnt entirely convinced that replacing my egr valve had made any difference to the car, so over the weekend i thought i would try disconnecting my battery to reset the ecu. Im not sure if im just imagining it but i think the car is performing better. What would cause this?
Im still getting a terrible gassy smell coming out of the exhaust. Im going to try a different brand of diesel next.
The car is booked in at my local Audi main dealer on Fri for a test drive and diagnostics.

In a post on another thread I found the words "NEVER IGNORE THE PRE REGEN WARNINGS AND DONT REMAP OR ADD CHIP BOXES TO PD DPF ENGINES". I followed the link to the attached document to find it was not available!

Not sure if these are the words of a8 tech or not, however, I am left confused as in a thread dealing with poor performance of the a B7 2.0 TDi 170 a suggested remedy is a remap.

I own a 2008 A4 Avant B7 2.0 Tdi 170 Quattro which I had remapped to give better performance. I'm generally very happy with the remap. However, this morning I took my car to the Audi dealer (with the original map back on the ecu) to have some diagnostics done on it as the emissions warning light was on. I had detected a dtc code of 008194 which Audi confirmed was a dpf problem. They need to try an ecu update and an emergency regeneration on the dpf together with performing some other checks and tests.

I am now concerned about the remap I have been given from Celtic tuning.
Is it this that has cause the dpf problems or was I just one of the unlucky ones, i.e. would the dfp problem have arisen anyway regardless of the remapping?

I have seen lots of blocked dpf filters from tuning/ add on box things so always seek the best tuner for dpf engines.Shark 90 offers a dpf off solution plus he understands the parameters the remap needs to avoid dpf issues.

Has anyone had this Shark Performance remap or DPF removal done to an A4 2.0 Tdi 170 DPF Quattro Avant, or similar? Did it make much of a difference and have you had any problems with lumpy power acceleration or exhaust issues since?
What was the total cost and did you have to get a new exhaust system? Thanks. I don't know too much about all this but am annoyed at economy/DPF/lumpy acceleration of my recently bought late 56 plate A4 170 above. Any advice and recommendations on remap would be appreciated. I am concerned about any ill effects from DPF removal and also read that the 170 cannot or shouldn't be remapped as it is already a tuned version of 140 engine! Any truth in this?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tricky_Dicky

Has anyone had this Shark Performance remap or DPF removal done to an A4 2.0 Tdi 170 DPF Quattro Avant, or similar? Did it make much of a difference and have you had any problems with lumpy power acceleration or exhaust issues since?
What was the total cost and did you have to get a new exhaust system? Thanks. I don't know too much about all this but am annoyed at economy/DPF/lumpy acceleration of my recently bought late 56 plate A4 170 above. Any advice and recommendations on remap would be appreciated. I am concerned about any ill effects from DPF removal and also read that the 170 cannot or shouldn't be remapped as it is already a tuned version of 140 engine! Any truth in this?

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Many on here have had remaps done by shark. Give ben a call he is very helpful.
www.sharkperformance.co.uk/

Has anybody had a Viezu remap done? Any feedback would be great!

Check out there site and let me know what you think.

Shark is a bit far for me to travel if i need any aftersales stuff doing.

Cheers.

http://www.viezu.com/

Quote:

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Originally Posted by crmason

Has anybody had a Viezu remap done? Any feedback would be great!

Check out there site and let me know what you think.

Shark is a bit far for me to travel if i need any aftersales stuff doing.

Cheers.

http://www.viezu.com/

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Just been on the website and noticed they are only in Thetford i wonder if they will do a discount for two Chris,:D

UPDATE: Car went in to Audi today. Came back ok and got a print out of all the diagnostic checks. The only thing I noted was that they done a software upgrade: Diesel direct injection and preheating system update from 9888 to 9973. I have no idea what this means tho. Any ideas?

sw 9973 is the latest software update and rectifies egr and fuelling problems.

Ah-ha. That might explain some things then.
Cheers A8tech!

I had my A4 2.0 TDI 170 back into Audi as it was running a bit rough.

There was a recall flash ECU upgrade on the car and they removed and 'sonic cleaned' the injectors.

The best thing I did to my TDI 170 though is fit cruise control.

Like you I was struggling to get over 44mpg on a run. I fitted the cruise and now get 48 regally. I believe this is because when driving at 70/80 your actually sitting in the turbo power band so ever slight feathering with the throttle will cause it to burn more fuel (or at least that's how I retaionalised it to myself!)

I did want a TDI 140 originally but the S-Line Special Edition only came as a 170 so that's what I had to have. It's worth mentioning that many 170's are actually closer to 180 in terms of power output, mine came out at 181. There are also other additions over the 140 such as a new injector rail and the dreaded DPF.

Has anyone else tried leaving their car in fifth gear at motorway cruising speed (70 mph) rather than sixth ?

I read that some DPF issues were occurring on cars even on motorway journeys and that the cooler exhaust temperatures when using sixth gear were at least partly involved. I decided to try not using sixth gear as an experiment and have only been using fifth gear as the highest gear.
I haven't been on a long motorway journey using this technique yet but on A roads (typically between 50 and 60 mph) the mpg has improved (39 to 41/42 mpg). Previously, I was putting the car into sixth from 50+ mph if it was on the flat.

I would be interested to know if anyone else has tried this. My reasoning is that it is running at a higher torque output point in the powerband resulting in less accelerator pedal effort being required (?)

Just thought I would share this for discussion.
Anyone else tried this ?
What speed do you put the car into sixth gear ?