Audi A6 4F C6 V6 2.7 3.0 TDi Buyers Checklist ....

Hi fellow members :) ...

Since joining many a time the discussion of I wish to buy a 2.7 / 3.0 TDi has come up and I feel the early ones people really need to check thoroughly as they will be so enticing on the used market but when the problems occur you will be :zx11: ...

As many of you will know I'm the proud owner of Zesty the A6... :aargh4:...

This will be collection of observations I have made throughout my ownership, besides near financial ruin there is the loss of sanity one can experience with the V6! :banghead: ...

I will also try to create a Lemon-O-Meter rating for each segment to highlight the potential citrus like flavour you may experience :o...

Removing engine cover

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...psb228f3d7.jpg

Engine cover is held on at points marked in red, ease up from appropriate areas, do not be heavy handed as I crack one once :o...

The big ones...

Chain rattle... Link:- Post 7

Injectors...

You will find Audi P/N top line on collar 059 130 xxx xx... you will find a date code on injectors which will be back to front... you can see just below Audi P/N 110117 which is 17/01/11, also on the box sticker...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps6c841d0e.jpg


059 130 277 S
059 130 277 Q DROPPED 01/06/2005
059 130 277 AA DROPPED 01/06/2006
059 130 277 AB DROPPED 01/09/2006
059 130 277 AH DROPPED 01/04/2009
059 130 277 BD Current part since 09 (these apply to BMK BNG ASB engine codes)

Link:- Attachment 20706 Link:- Attachment 20707

Ref thread:- A6/C6 injector PROBLEM - Replacement/refurbished injectors possible?

Tiptronic software & oil update (Not applicable to 2.7 with Multitronic/Non quattro)...

So below the gearbox is a plate...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps405a205a.jpg

Zoom shot...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...pse4dc1e07.jpg

1 Serial number of gearbox
2 Model number
3 Gearbox designation
4 Code letters

Next info from my VCDS log... (full version here Link:- ZF 6HP19A tiptronic gearbox (A6 3.0 TDI Quattro) Post 8)

Part No SW: 4F1 910 156 B Revision No SW: 0030 Serial number: 4005962

My gearbox serial number 4005962, besides plate it is in VCDS log blue text...

Next TPI/TSB

Quote:

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Production change

1. Optimised ATF (blue) from February 2005 (gearbox numbers A: 4000597, B:95253).

2. Optimised ATF (green) from March 2008 (gearbox number: A4, A6, A8: 4432890, Q7: 4040037)

Measure

Case A: vehicles before chassis break:

On MY 05 vehicles and earlier (before gearbox number: A:4000597, B:95253) update the software of the gearbox control unit.
Note: The new ATF needs the software version. Failing to update the software will lead to gearbox damage.

Case B: vehicles after chassis break:

Vehicles after the chassis break have optimised oil and the suitable software version in the gearbox.

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My car is "Case B"... the serial number of the gearbox places it into this category...

In above both cases G 060 162 A (green) oil is used as update in TPI instructions...

(In parts cat. G 060 162 A2 (green) is £32 per L, G 055 162 A2 (blue) is £32 per L)

But both blue & green are "Optimised ATF"... :confused: ... then I cross ref'd this older US version of the TPI...

Link:- Chirping, hooting, squeaking noise when shifting between 3-4

It is so similar but for the US petrol cars... extracts below which interested me...

Quote:

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Production Solution

Optimized ATF (Blue) from gearbox numbers 4000597 and 95253

Required Parts and Tools

Part Number	Part Description	Quantity
G 055162A2	ATF (blue)	16

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The US TSB have release date of 07 Dec 06...

TPI 2007190/11 have release date of 11 Aug 08...

TPI 2007190/13 have release date of 18 Jan 10... Link:- Russia Audi Forum Post (Use google translate)

So the suggestion of oil ie blue or green depend on TPI age, so my view is that green superseded blue but both blue & green are "Optimised ATF" what was not "Optimised ATF" was whatever was used before that in MY05 (2004)/ gearbox numbers lower than: A:4000597, B:95253...

Now my P/N for gearbox software is correct it is only rev which is low, mine 0030, TPI=0050...
Now this section is my research that the rev of SW in my gearbox doe not matter...

Quote:

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Case A: vehicles before chassis break:

On MY 05 vehicles and earlier (before gearbox number: A:4000597, B:95253) update the software of the gearbox control unit.

Note: The new ATF needs the software version. Failing to update the software will lead to gearbox
damage.

1. Update the software of the gearbox control unit (see table under Parts information)

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Now the rev of software is different in table because it is an updated software at time of TPI just like the oils (blue/green)...

Quote:

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The converter condition can be checked in MVB 007/3 (converter open/ converter control/ converter shut).

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpMloZuyWYk

More info on video in this post... Link:- A6 3.0 TDI QUATTRO numbers - Page 4

Another good thread to ref... Link:- ZF 6HP19A tiptronic gearbox (A6 3.0 TDI Quattro)

Next general health check...

Plenum chamber & water ingress into passenger compartment...

Engine bay harnesses...

Fuel return system...

Battery...

IMO I would feel any potential buyer must look/ask for information besides an oil service stamp...

I will try to do a section what the manual may suggest on servicing and what an enthusiast/caring owning would possibly do...

It may take me a while to place all media here... so please be patience as construction begins http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/s...nstruction.gif...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gupsterg

The three big ones...

Chain rattle...

Injectors...

Tiptronic software & oil update...

Crank pulley & aux belt/tensioner...

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?
Couldn't resist :biglaugh:, sorry Gup!

Sorry :o lack of coffee :biglaugh:... well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

I'm just booking the wife some tickets to the US so I can carry on with the thread! :beerchug:...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by gupsterg

Sorry :o lack of coffee :biglaugh:... well that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it!

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Hey, I'm worse - with or without coffee!!!
:D

Now not an issue but IMO something to consider, from my understanding earlier cars have a different high pressure fuel pump and some common rail components are updated...

As mine is an early one... I will do a similar photo, for now you can see from 2006 they have the later version of common rail and fuel pump...

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...ps46471dfc.jpg

The later one (above) has updated sensor components on rail (red line), the fuel pump is easily distinguishable by the high pressure pipe connection on top (red box) rather than on its back on which the early ones have, another easy spot to tell difference between the two versions is the high pressure pipes on the injectors will have the same flare nuts on both ends where as the later one has larger flare nuts on the common rail side...

Service guide highlight change over at Oct 2005... so production dates newer than that will have the updated common rail & pump...

I will also be diggin up some info on the "Multitronic" which IIRC at a certain production point gained mechanical improvement....

Sorry for slow build up of thread viewers :o...

Timing Chain rattle...

I had chain rattle on mine... an A6 Avant 3.0 TDi occurred at about 73-75K on clock... my symptoms where only at start up for 1-2 seconds...

I've just had fix for all chains & tensioners, HPFP belt & tensioner, AUX belt & tensioners, Tiptronic oil change as well https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/i...ies/Blush2.gif price was £2.2K inc VAT https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/i...es/nervous.gif

As engine is removed they did a oil change, coolant change, re-gas of A/C system https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/i...es/nervous.gif

These are P/N and succession history

057 109 218 G DROPPED 01/10/2005
057 109 218 J DROPPED 01/12/2006
057 109 218 K CURRENT

Even though my car first registration was 09/2005 many parts have production dates of 6-7 months before that https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/i...lies/frown.png

http://i1247.photobucket.com/albums/...%20Stuff/4.jpg

On above photo note the shape of right top bank chain lower end of it....

Quote:

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Technical product information
Transaction No.: 2012744/6

Rattling noises for 1 - 2 seconds after start - V6 2.7/3.0 TDI

Customer statement / workshop findings

a. For 1-2 seconds the engine makes sporadically rattling noises after the start.
b. Noticeable speed drop in starter motor. Brief metallic knocking noise after the start.

Technical background

a. The noises are caused by the drive C chain (right cylinder bank). After switching off the engine the camshaft transmits resetting torques on the chain. As a result the oil is pressed out of the chain tensioner and the tensioner retracts fully. At the start, the tensioning rail touches the housing (hard plastic on aluminium housing) till the tensioner is again filled with oil. This causes sporadic rattling noises for 1- 2 sec.

b. This complaint can be mixed up with something else. If the injectors start to leak (injector needle wear), after a stationary period of 10 - 20 minutes this can lead to accumulation and evaporation of fuel in the combustion chamber. This makes starting the engine more difficult. The fuel accumulation leads to a premature ignition in
the combustion chamber and hence to a metallic knocking (hard combustion). Similar to an incorrect chain tensioner!

Production change

a. Optimised tensioning rail (chain tensioner).

4F87N154787
4L27D099846
8E37A258550
4E47N020219

b. Optimised injectors.

4F37N026750
8E47A040360
4EX7N004204
in the Q 7 from launch

Measure

a. Fit the optimised tensioning rail (right cylinder bank) 057 109 218 K.
Identification - bump stop centrally in the housing.

Note:Before fitting an optimised chain tensioner, make sure that the complaint is not caused by one or several leaking injectors.

b. Check: Read measured value block 70 - 77 in the engine control unit and proceed according to TPI 2013969.

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A handy video to view, as the V6 is fitted in various VAG vehicles there are differences but the majority of graphical content is correct in video https://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/i...lies/smile.png ...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbjzUMCBf2Q

Please also ref this thread... Link:- Timing chain noise 2.7 v6 tdi

Ok peeps so we looked at some of the differences between say an early pre facelift V6 (2004 - 2008 approx.) ...

Now the later V6 ie facelift (2009 -2011 approx.) has some further design improvements/changes, it is still the generation 1 2.7/3.0 V6 TDi...

One that interested me was this...

Quote:

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To prevent deposits in the EGR path, especially during operation with low-quality fuels with high aromatic hydrocarbon contents, a metal micro-oxidation catalytic converter is located at the beginning of the EGR path.

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Please ref pages 16-20 of this SSP Link:- the later V6 SSP

So the later V6 has cleaner EGR gas being used with the charge air, so IMO the coking of parts in the EGR system/air intake manifold should be less...

Gup you have a really high frustration tolerance level, I'd have been looking for a box of matches!

LOL Doc :) ... trust me mate many a time that thought has crossed my mind but i) I'm too tight a git to do it! ii) after the "I'm depressed..." thread I just boxed it all up and threw away any emotions towards the "issue" in my car :) ...