Which Fuel? (Petrol)

[SammoVWT]

So i've noticed recently ive not been getting as much grunt from the Shell V-Power fuel recently, my MPG while using it has dropped and the car feels a bit flat.

I discovered by chance this weekend that tesco 99 petrol is cheaper than V-Power - I tried it, and it seems to have improved my MPG/Responsiveness/Torque by what feels like a substantial amount - I noticed the difference immediately. (For what its worth I have HC pistons in).

I did use it before the rebuild - but i didnt notice much difference back then - now the car is like a new animal.

Just wondered about anyone elses thoughts on this, or is this just random coincedence?

[NickPicks]

What was the weather like before and after? I always tend to find the car more responsive in the cold & damp - the air is a bit denser, so it's like a slight turbocharge.

I think there's also an effect with atmospheric pressure, but I've never really noticed it (I've never noted the barometer reading just before driving, but I can see if it's raingin and feel if it's cold)

[SammoVWT]

Both on cold days, ive been noticing the v-power on both cold/warm days hasnt been giving me much return in MPG or power.

Using the tesco 99, the temperature was average, not cold, not warm not overly humid either.

The gain i have literally before and after pump on the same day was incredible, it almost seemed too good to be true - im still torn between whether my car is enjoying the 99 (and feeling like a mug for paying over the odds for shell), or if it was freak perfect conditions.

But since ive got a tank of this new fuel, ive had that same torquey feeling right through, even this morning. Its so strange, as the torque picks up much quicker at the low rev end.

I may have been converted to tesco 99... :aargh4:

Ive seen the debate rage before, but I've always been an avid shell user, now im not so sure! Also undecided if shell have lowered the quality of V-Power to squeeze more margin, hence the post :P

[airport mick]

from airport mick

never use super market fuel . wife filled mondeo with new shell fuel drove
to gatwick claimed car now pulls much better . Tried my self and i agree.
I allways use shell diesel in our diesel cars. new shell appears to give more miles to gallon. I do 2000 to 3000 miles a week.

[Eshrules]

Why do I always have to be the forum <female dog>?

The above is twoddle ^ Ben will confirm this, but all fuel has the same core basics, it's the additives which differentiate the different fuels.

Tesco's 99 unleaded has long been talked about, I use it religously - not least because the place is on my doorsteps and they reward me with £1 of clubcard vouchers every decade.

I used their diesel in the golf and the A4, with the first being remapped. I can't say I saw any noticeable difference when running on Tesco, as opposed to Shell.

It's all much of a muchness tbh and unless your car's been mapped to use vpower to it's advantage you are, quite frankly, pouring money away.

'IMHO'

[SammoVWT]

I have to use 97 because of my pistons, i dont want to detonate :( Do you find tesco 99 breaks down quickly after filling up?

It really did a number on my car. It did give me some extra torque at very low rev 600+ but then after a week, the car would feel flat like old fizzy drinks. I actually switched to tesco from shell, but now ive switched back, and the car as a day to day run is much happier on the shell.

I could only feel initial gains for the first few days after filling up. (with tesco).

Shell is consistent all the time now, i think its either the tesco fuel breaks down quickly, or theres a contaminant in my local tesco tank

[Eshrules]

I'm totally clueless as to what you mean bud.

I tank up, I drive and that's all that happens. But then, an 18 year old 1045cc engine would probably run on my own urine if I refined it enough.

[SammoVWT]

I'm totally clueless as to what you mean bud.

I tank up, I drive and that's all that happens. But then, an 18 year old 1045cc engine would probably run on my own urine if I refined it enough.

Probably, i guess my engine is sensitive to what i put in, either that or its been spoiled.

[Crasher]

I use nothing but V Power in my VRS which is re-mapped and I do think that it varies from batch to batch. Sometimes my car can pulse and play up as the ECU pulls the timing back and then after I fill up again, it is much more responsive. The Octavia VRS is a 98/95 car (95RON only in exceptional circumstances) and as it is re-mapped it must use a minimum 98RON so I only use V Power which is 99RON. I have used Tesco Momentum 99 in my wife’s Polo GTI and it runs far better than it does on normal 95RON.

[SammoVWT]

Perhaps I was a bit too hasty when switching from v-power the first time, like you said, it was probably a poor batch.

I didnt realise it (V-Power) was 99RON, makes me feel a bit more at ease, do you know what this fuel save business is all about? Obviously seems like a reforumlated additive, not sure if its saved me much fuel at the moment, but its certainly given my car a much sharper response.

(Also glad to see that its not just my ECU that plays up with a new batch of fuel from time to time! I was getting a little paranoid, but it was so few and far between I wasnt sure what to put it down to)

[bannedbiker]

Probably, i guess my engine is sensitive to what i put in, either that or its been spoiled.

When I used to have bikes I realy noticed a difference in fuels from different garages. One of my small 2stroke engined bikes wouldn't run on fuel from a particular garage due to the amount of water in the petrol!! I had to strip the carb down on the side of the road twice because of it, though my bro riding a decent sized 4stroke bike was fine, used it all the time.
I also had oddness playing with different octane fuels. The same little 2stroke absolutely loved 99ron fuel, it was a noticable difference. However when I got my next bike, a big single cylinder 4stroke, it would actually run worse on 99 than it would on 95!!
On one of my last bikes, a bigger 4stroke, I couldn't notice any difference what so ever between octane rated fuels, nothing.
Guess it depends a lot on the motor!

[SammoVWT]

Im running a rebuilt 1.6, so perhaps your logic is right. Might assume then that the larger engines have a greater tolerance for fuel quality, which may be why theres little improvement in some of the engines when switching octane/RON ratings etc.

But for myself, definately a vast improvement on 99RON over the 95RON.

[bannedbiker]

But for myself, definately a vast improvement on 99RON over the 95RON.

If it works, stick with it!

When I was a lot younger my bro and a few of his mates used to have a drag-racing team. My first road legal bike was a DT50, after much tuning from me n my bro it would do 72mph on the flat, apart from the time I aquired some 118RON fuel from the team, then it did nealy 90! OK, so it blew up pretty quick, but it did 90!

[SammoVWT]

Fair point.

Im really interested in getting a good eeprom for my ECU mapped to 97 upwards. Very hard to find anyone who supports the inbetween market for a reasonable price :O

I should get a large enough gain for my little 4 pot to justify it, im very happy with my 1.6 considering its on a standard map at the moment.

But then again, i don't want to be greedy :o

[bannedbiker]

But then again, i don't want to be greedy :o

Why not?! :approve:

[Crasher]

I am not sure if the fuel save formula applies to V Power.

[SammoVWT]

Why not?! :approve:

I worry about doing too much to the engine, its my daily driver, so I wanted to have both, dont want to overstress the block :o

[bannedbiker]

I worry about doing too much to the engine, its my daily driver, so I wanted to have both, dont want to overstress the block :o

Yeah, that's fair enough. That's the problem I always had with my smaller bikes when I was younger, I'd tune the crap out of them but then blow them up every few months (or in the case of my 50 every few weeks!)
Then I'd be in the garage overnight trying to get it back on the road to get to work the next day, always good fun!

[SammoVWT]

Ouch!

Yeah the main reason is that after all the grief of my rebuild, they had fitted HC pistons,(i didn't ask for them). The change in compression is immense, my car is unoffically as quick (or at least as quick, also the block is lighter) as a mk3 8v GTi.

I was hoping the torque app would work with my golf so i could get some un-official HP/torque flywheel figues but the protocol isnt supported (Boo :(), so i can only judge by the people who want to cut me up because they are in a 'quicker' car with a large engine. Although ive already outdone a few TSI's on the motorway.

Eitherway, with the already increased compression, i wasnt sure if getting a remap is wise. I would really love the extra torque more than large HP, but this would be the last engine upgrade I would consider.

Big valves and uprated pumps/injectors are too far for what I need (too pricey aswell), about the only thing i may well do in the future is get a better exhaust manifold, but cost vs performance upgrade im unsure, hence toying with the re-map, but worry it will be the straw that breaks the camels back.

[bannedbiker]

Thats the problem dude, if it's your transport for work everyday reliability's gotta come above out n out performance unfortunately.
That's why we should all have 2 cars, if only I could persuade my mrs that...!

[SammoVWT]

Im getting a garage full of cars, regardless of what swmbo says!

Go pimp hand! (JOKE!)

[Ben]

Why do I always have to be the forum <female dog>?

The above is twoddle ^ Ben will confirm this, but all fuel has the same core basics, it's the additives which differentiate the different fuels.




this is correct. carl is a <female dog>

lol

joking aside... what carl says is correct.

shell fuel always comes from the same place... the shell terminal, as does bp, total, jet, murco ect...

Tesco are independent and can buy their fuel from any supplier, bp, shell, jet, total ect. usually whichever is the cheapest, as a consequence of this theirs is only the basic of fuel types. i.e no fancy addatives.

bp, shell and some others now add ethanol to their fuel. this may cause you some variation on your mpg or performance findings.

Tescos won't have ethanol.......yet.

certainly where i work, total and jets shared terminal does not have ethanol, bp and shell do and so does the chevron texaco terminal.

[bannedbiker]

So the question then is ethanol good/bad?!

[dave18]

Got a 90 mk2 golf driver 1600 carbed engine with mods, Changed to Shell V POWER last year and she ran like *****, then went for the MOT and she failed on Emisions ( not the same tank) Got her on the RR and thought lets just see filled up with V POWER and with in a few miles it ran a lot better. Cooler oil temps exhaust note changed slightly at idle runs and pulls a lot better, havent looked back , And as for the person who said they hate to be the bitch but said fuel is fuel its just what they put into it, Well sorry but duhh, Yanks are lucky if they have 95 RON, we are now getting 101RON , mate has even added some JET A-1 fuel to his car ( Fule that helicopters use) he wont know till next week as the car is off the road but could be fun, Petrol is petrol disel is disel it is all down to the additives . Oil is oil ect,

[Ben]

you can't compare us to the americans. Both countrys have different manufacturing standards and qualities.

I'd like to know how your mate got his hands on some jet a1 fuel though as it isn't sold to the public.

You are also correct with the oil is oil scenareo.

[Crasher]

The Americans don’t measure their octane in RON, they use the MON standard which is a lower valve than RON.

[dave18]

you can't compare us to the americans. Both countrys have different manufacturing standards and qualities.

I'd like to know how your mate got his hands on some jet a1 fuel though as it isn't sold to the public.

You are also correct with the oil is oil scenareo.

As said Yanks use a different system but from what i understand their GOOD stuff comes out at just under RON95 equivelant.

As for the heli fuel simple when you spend half your day fueling them up , Hes only got about 2 or 3 litres if that so its not alot and tbh i recon his cylinder head will go :D:D

As a side note i think some petrol stations over here have the MON standard in small writting here and there

[Crasher]

As a side note i think some petrol stations over here have the MON standard in small writting here and there

I will look out for that. There is also PON, Pump Octane Number which I think is RON+MON/2.

[dave18]

I could be wrong but im sure ive seen it written about, Mind im one of those sad people who read the small print in things out of curiosity and for laughs :D:D

[SammoVWT]

I only ever noticed RON ratings at petrol stations :o I will have to look out for it too.

Not that it really matters, i only run on premium anyway :/

[sharalaxy]

If it works, stick with it!

When I was a lot younger my bro and a few of his mates used to have a drag-racing team. My first road legal bike was a DT50, after much tuning from me n my bro it would do 72mph on the flat, apart from the time I aquired some 118RON fuel from the team, then it did nealy 90! OK, so it blew up pretty quick, but it did 90!

Are you sure you wasn't drinking it!!!!
I tuned racing 2 strokes for 20 years and that would sure be fun to see.

[bannedbiker]

Are you sure you wasn't drinking it!!!!
I tuned racing 2 strokes for 20 years and that would sure be fun to see.

Well, it wasn't exactly a stock DT50MX:
It was bored out to 75cc, we blueprinted the block and polished all the ports. It had a TS100 carb (which took forever to get the jetting right), Boyson 2 stage reeds modified from a CR250 (only half of them!) with the reed stop removed. The expansion pipe had the restricting funnel ground out and then it had a homemade carbon-fibre 9" can on the end. I down geared it 4t on the rear sprocket.
With normal fuel it would do 70mph, screaming it's nuts off, but it'd do it. It'd keep up with my mate's crappy CG125.
The time I used 118RON fuel it ran for less than an hour before it ceased, snapping the inlet ports of the bottom of the piston, BUT on a nice long flatish (ok, maybe VERY SLIGHTLY downhill) straight the needle was hovering just before 90mph!

[zollaf]

aviation fuel, thats what you want. many years ago a friend had a mk1 escort 1300. flat out (private road) it would push the needle to 90. with 10% av gas, it would go a lot faster, until the spark plugs melted. (looked like the ends had been welded). then the whole engine melted, so we dropped a pinto in. av gas, good for more power, not so good for your engine.

[dave18]

Thats what JET A-1 is bud :D

[bannedbiker]

Thats what the 118RON fuel I used was too.

[dave18]

Hmm i thought it would of been higher than 118, you can get 102 from BP pumps now if your near certain race tracks,


Whos waiting for this yank stuff with ethanol in it :D:D:D:D

[bannedbiker]

Hmm i thought it would of been higher than 118, you can get 102 from BP pumps now if your near certain race tracks,




This was ten years ago dude!

[dave18]

Even still i doont think that aviation fuel has progressed that much could be wrong , :o:o

Stil Bioethanol will be here soon