Rattleing noise on tickover 2.0TDi

[adam6900]

got a strange rattle coming from round the aircon/ tensioner/altenator area on my B7 Tdi 2.0 is it a commen thing? goes when you rev it,

Would love to know what it should be before striping it down

[irishejit]

mine does the exact same thing,tried changing the tensioner which didnt work so left it in for a diag.it ends up its the air-con pump and its also a common
fault.audi will charge around the £800 mark to change it but you can take
a gamble and by a 2nd hand one for around £100 from a breaker but there
is no telling how long it will last.there was one scare story with someone (on here I think) paying the audi price only for it to fail two years later.
ATM I am just ignoring the noise and im going for the cheaper fix :)
hope this helps

[adam6900]

Ah thats not to bad then, must be the clutch unit on the pump, sprayed loads fo wd40 over everything near the noise and it stoped for a few min, time for a strip down :)

[a8 tech]

you can fit a new pulley kit for the a/c compressor

[adam6900]

Am i right in thinking its going to be the bearing that supports the outer part of the pully that goes?

[a8 tech]

The pulley has 6rubber elements inside it and they breakaway so replace the pulley and also fit the self-adhesive noise-damping foil part number 8E0 260 329.

[adam6900]

Chears mate, ill phone audi for the scary price tomorow! done one on a 04 golf a few years ago so it cant be that hard

[a8 tech]

If you need the info how to remove and fit pm me.I normally degas the system and remove the compressor but you can drop it down and do it that way.This repair is for the denso type compressor so ask the parts to double check for you or look at the compressor and you will see the denso id on the pulley face

[peter 135]

I have the same rattling noise on my '06 2.0 tdi (blb engine)on start up,noise dissappears when engine warms up or if a/c is switched on.My question is why would the noise go away when engine warms up.Very hard to locate exact source of the noise.Any tips.
Many thanks
Peter 135

[malc11f]

I had a similar problem on my 2.0TDi. It was under warranty (from a warranty company) which was fortunate as it turned out to be a faulty tensioner on the oil pump chain. Not a cheap job. It cost nearly £600 but this did include the replacement of the the timing belt and the pulleys (the warranty company didn't pay for these though).

[adam6900]

The oil pump chain makes a totaly different sound, and that does it warm/cold and through the rev range

[malc11f]

OK, but I definitely did not hear the noise when the engine was revved up.

[irishejit]

did you find out a price for the pulley kit yet??

[malc11f]

No, not yet as I haven't seen the bill in detail. It has gone to the dealer I bought the car from. Will let you know as soon as I see the copy.

[malc11f]

The cambelt kit cost £138.39, so this included the pulleys and the belt.

[a8 tech]

What you on about cambelt kit

[malc11f]

What you on about cambelt kit
The cambelt kit contains; the cambelt, tensioner pulley and guide pulleys.

[irishejit]

see I replaced all that and it didnt make one dot of difference
thats why I got it booked in and found it to be the aircon pump.
so what about these rubbers in the pump.....can they be repaired/modded
to stop the rattle??

[a8 tech]

Yes there is a repair kit for the pulley and rubber elements.

[irishejit]

have you any links to who sells them,
tried google but havent found anything

[mauricedar]

If you want a bit of a scare? Google BLB engine failure.

[irishejit]

yeah when I first heard the noise thats what I thought it was....was ready to scrap the car before i got a VW check up an they told me it was the air con pump.

[weggie]

Guys, put your name to this campaign as this is common problem and changing tensioner is only temp repair for a few years, Audi won't do it, they will want to change to new balance shaft system, 1500 to 2000 repair.

Campaign is highlighted below.

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81997-2-0-TDI-oil-pump-balance-shaft-failure/page2

problem is bad design on tensioner, which WILL go again.

see http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=757454&d=0& on design issue

[adam6900]

Was the air con pump :)

[a8 tech]

stick to this forum, not those bloody crap ones lol

[malc11f]

But they do appear to have hit upon a common problem. It is worrying to think this problem may re-occur in a couple of years.

[a8 tech]

No repeat failures that I have seen and I have done plenty and as most were covered under the workshop campaign then there are few vehicles which have yet to receive the modification 13D7.
Mixture of work per day shows us that repeat failure is 0 on average 60 vehicles a day and lets say 5 of those are affected vehicles and not one single repeat failure.
Taking into account info gathered from forums is inaccurate and owner drivers/forum members misdiagnose from there arm chair then if you look at the warranty statistics then it can be seen there are few second failure.
All vehicles are checked at pre book and at workshop visit for outstanding campaigns so if you chose not to visit your dealer its likely you will not be notified of any workshop actions, unlike recalls which require customer notification by post.
So as I say my role allows me the privilege of checking the percentage of outstanding workshop actions as well as actual hands on experience and not speculation from the inter web.


warranty period
2 years 100,000 miles
3 years 60,000 miles

chassis ranges affected

WAU___8E_7A000695 - 117854 -
WAUZZZ8E_6A142943 - 297522 -
WAUZZZ8E_79050267 - 061063

If outside of the workshop action and the failure occurs then read this pdf for repair instructions7721

If your warranty has expired just simply use the extended audi warranty

[weggie]

Interesting comments but i am surprised that you have not come accross this problem very often. When i first heard the chain rattle in my motor I knew nothing about it as i only bought car 4 months before. So I took it to A 4 Audi, who are indi. 60 seconds after listening to engine and one phone call to check if it was the model with the BLB engine, i was told bill would over £1500 for the replacement module. You ca imagine the distress,havig just bought it!!They advised me to to go to Audi and try for goodwill.

I did this and paid 70 to get same diagnosis, i.e replacement module. Audi said they they could not replace the chain as they could not provide warranty on this repair!! They also said they could not get parts. audi UK said no goodwill so i am now 2 months without car.

I that time i have read so any similar problems, both here an UK > 200 for me to think there is a problem, and perhaps around the 70 - 90,000 miles mark.

Alas i now need to do something so have decided to change chain and tensioner and hope top sprocket is not worn. I am also going to do the repair as DI my-self, with help a f engine enthusiast friend

In respect to this repair I wondered if you could give me some advice.

I will post this question based on work required, parts and tools in a following thread in an hour or so, I would be most grateful if you could point me in any direction.

[a8 tech]

Read the pdf link I posted and market sales for b7 compared to failures show a very small %.I have carried out the modification for adding the chain and gear with normal 2 years guarantee for parts and labour and the parts were available next day so maybe your dealer did not fancy the repair and I would not diagnose over the phone but would remove the sump to inspect and that would be 1.5 hours to inspect the balance shaft and also to inspect the turbo for possible oil starvation but again I take most forums with a pinch of salt and only go off correct diagnosis and evidence.

[weggie]

Hi A8 Tech, I mentioned that i was going to undertake the chain replacement ourselves. I am now doing re-seach so that i have the correct parts, and also the more critical tools.

as well as the tools, for example i think i will require in terms of tools.

What i think i may require is:

1) an engine lift (i think i can hire from speedyhire) will this be definitely required?
2) perhaps the special tool for "locking" (i.e. holding) the balance shaft in position while we install the new chain and tensioner. Not sure what part number for this is. or if it is definitely required? any comments?
3) crank holding tool to do the cambelt is this crankshaft lock T10050?
4) Ball ended 5mm or 6mm allen key for the two sump bolts hidden in the bell housing. ( i have this already)
5) do you need any of the camshaft locking tools or can you get away without them? i.e i think it is the T10115 tensioner locking pin
6) wooden or rubber hammer
7) razor/green scotch brite to clean sealing surfaces
8 PB Blaster to help remove the oil seal flange, (not sure if this is just like WD 40???) American guys suggested this.

In terms of parts
i) timing belt and timing belt kit
ii) chain and lower sprocket as per your picture and tensioner.
a Chain - 03G 115 230
b Gear - 03G 103 333
c Tensioner - 03G 115 124 D

are there any gaskets or seals needing replacing or required for above chain installation cover?

iii) synthetic engine oil i assume oil may have to change but was done 500 miles ago?
iv) oil filter
v) water pump
vi) water pump gasket
vii)
viii) engine coolant
ix) bolts N 911 213 01 not sure how many are required.

The question I am trying to resolve is what else do i need to get to carry out this work, i don't want to get half way through on a a sat/Sun and cannot complete as I don't have some bits, so planning ahead!!!!

my email address is boss_cat2@live.com

[weggie]

Read the pdf link I posted and market sales for b7 compared to failures show a very small %.I have carried out the modification for adding the chain and gear with normal 2 years guarantee for parts and labour and the parts were available next day so maybe your dealer did not fancy the repair and I would not diagnose over the phone but would remove the sump to inspect and that would be 1.5 hours to inspect the balance shaft and also to inspect the turbo for possible oil starvation but again I take most forums with a pinch of salt and only go off correct diagnosis and evidence.

Could you post the pdf again, could not seem to open it A8 tech

Cheers

Weggie

[a8 tech]

Open your pm as you may need the info available on the link to successfully carry out the repair and also all tools required will be listed.

[a8 tech]

pm me your email and I will send you the pdf

[davidlandy]

reading this topic with interest - our 55 plate 2.0tdi is a bit noisy on idle , as you rev it , the noise goes at almost exactly 1500 rpm then its very smooth.

the noise sounds like loose plastic trim vibrating like the engine cover or air inlet assembly , but it isnt that.

Am i to worry about this, or is it nothing?

[weggie]

I am no expert apart from my own situation, what is your miles?, mine had a very rattly chain sound, not thewre when bought at 73k but got pronounced at 75K other sign was when on motorway, a slight intermittent vibration.

The rattly sound is now very pronounced (note now off road for 2 months, fear of chain failure and £4K engine replacement!) , but seemed to get worse if i recall over a month or so. If worried, ask Audi, but they may charge £60 , is so go to indi. Note however, is is only sound based unless motor is stripped down. I think Experts may give beter advice tough. I am only a punter who has read lots of horror stores, many worse than my own.

A8 suggest it is not a common problem, however if you are in my shoes I believe you would think differently, especially when you read so many stories of the same problem.

I accept that perhaps there is a possibility they are only a small %, but who knows, will Audi ever tell the truth, if they did it would cost them millions sorting the problem for the 2005 TDi!!!!. I therefore hold more faith in the forums, so if we get 5 cases a week with same problem, i think there is major problem.

As some one has said in another Forum, "Where there is a known safety issue on aero engines we were obliged to issue directives etc and our equivalent of recalls all from a safety perspective. No real difference here. Oil pump failure in the fast lane of a motorway rapidly followed by engine siezure ...and so on.!!!!"

I guess there is a possible safety issue here as well, if the engine goes, would you want to be in the motor dong 90!!!!

Any thoughts A8? We may all be becoming hysterical about issue but there has not been many people saying to me there is no major issue, and that includes some Audi mechanics.

[davidlandy]

Weggie, my mileage is 110k the noise sounds like something is loose then when you rev it disappears at 1500 revs then its very smooth.

it sounds like its coming from the NS I think, but I get no lumpy running or anything else.

like you say its worrying, but until this thread I didnt really think anything of it so i hope that Im not being paranoid - is there a more definative description of the noise so that I can put my mind at rest?

[weggie]

I did a search in you tube, try http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DrER0ydrIk&NR=1, this sounds like mine.

[davidlandy]

Hi weggie, mine doesnt sound like that, especially the inital start noise it made, mines not doing that. Mine kind of growls , vibrates, and as I said it goes at 1500. its quite loud and noticeable.

I have had a good look at it today and also noticed an oil leak from down the front of the engine .... its dripping oil onto the tray immediately below the pulleys.

I suppose could it be the chain tensioner failing causing an oil leak? hence the noise

[weggie]

Mine did have minor leak, it only had the rattly sound of te chin, it did not have the starting sound.

If worried, take it down to an indi Audi and see what they say, failing that try a dealership, but they may charge you to look at it.

Or take a video of it, post it on a site like (perhaps A8 tech or on http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&t=757454&d=0&nmt=

someone like TT might give you a rough indication.

[P CRR]

A8. If I gave you my chassis numer could you tell me if my car could be affected by oil pump chain concern?

[davidlandy]

same here!

[adam6900]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUdOm0db2Yc

Thats what my aircon pump sounded like (the bit at the start on tickover) A8Tec is that anything like what the oil pump chain sounds like as people seam to think its like that and i cant see a chain EVER sounding like that!!

[weggie]

Is your engine BLB? If it is it will most likely have the chain. The TT said in the "PIistons and Compnents" site - "Build dates after 31/08/2005 Both A4 and A6 are the new gear setup.

I cant tell if that includes the last few 2005 model year cars or not.

(to be safe all 6 chassis cars, 2006 model year, are gear driven)

WAUZZZ8E?6A??????
WAUZZZ4F?6A??????

[P CRR]

My chassis number is WAUZZZ8E36A******.

[peter 135]

This is interesting news indeed,does that mean that all BLB engines do not have chain driven oil pumps,if so this would certainly put my mind at rest (and I'm certain a lot of other members too).My car was first registered in Jan '06 but the data sticker has a date of 07/05. The vin No is wauzzz 8e 6a05????. Is there any certain way I could verify wheter it is chain or gear driven oil pump/balancer shaft.Would Audi main dealer be able to confirm.
Would appreciate any feedback on this.
Many thanks
Peter135:confused:

[malc11f]

The sound on mine was more metallic than that one on YouTube. It was also not a synchronous sound varying in time and repetition and as I said before the noise disappeared as the engine revs increased.

[autochoice]

Does this mean all A4s with 6A chassis number have the drive not chain set up? as we car currently looking to buy one but dont want the chain set up

[weggie]

Does this mean all A4s with 6A chassis number have the drive not chain set up? as we car currently looking to buy one but dont want the chain set up


Check out this site. http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/showthread.php?81997-2-0-TDI-oil-pump-balance-shaft-failure/page2

Some more details on vehicles affected.

"uys - I have been doing a bit of research! I have a copy of the VAG ETKA parts catalogue which is a mind of information. The chain style oil pump drive (P/N 03G 115 124) was/is fitted to the VW Passat, A4 and A6 vehicles. Engine codes that seem to be relevant are BHW(Passat) & Audi BLB, BNA, BRE, BRF & BPW (though this one has both the chain and spur drive). The BLB engine was fitted to A6 models from 07/04 to 11/05, A6 Avant from 06/05 to 11/05 and the A4 from 11/04 to 11/05. Looking at the photos below, my failure is exactly the same with the 'nylon' tensioner failure where the piston from the pump bears on it. Still awaiting news from my Audi dealer .... Will probably get them to take the big end shells off and examine (talked to their chief tech and he also said it might be worth looking at the camshafts - kerching £££!!) Agree that Audi UK should be sent letters but I would suggest that we go higher than that eg CEO of Audi. In the past I have always found it pays to go straight to the top on matters where Customer Service dither and open up their Beano comics all the time!!! Agree on the Watchdog approach for some broader publicity. BTW my A4 had a Main Dealer service plus cambelts & tensioner change last July (c 5K miles ago). My guess is that the design change was necessary because of the failure (projected or actual) of that 'steam driven' system - I am an aircraft mechanical engineer and am used to OEMs holding their hands up and saying we will pay for the repairs where there is a known issue. Where there is a known safety issue on aero engines we were obliged to issue directives etc and our equivalent of recalls all from a safety perspective. No real difference here. Oil pump failure in the fast lane of a motorway rapidly followed by engine siezure ...and so on. "

[irishejit]

so does that mean mine is gear driven,
it starts WAUZZZ8E76A****** ??
mine was the aircon pump and was worse when I reversed.
went away when it was warm or about 1.5k rpm

[blknight05]

If the engine code is blb its chain driven bre is gear driven the bre engine wont work in a blb car but you can replace the blb chain etc for bre think you need to change the crank thoe

[DBSK]

I had a clicking noise the same as described on my 1.9 tdi 130. Would tick for a few seconds when starting the car or when the a/c was switched off.

Got a new air con pump for £500 inc fitting and problem sorted!

[Autologix]

Hi Guys, just reading this post and i have a very similar problem with my 2005 B7 2.0 tdi. Very rattly engine on idle, but doesn't seem to go quiter or louder at any point hot or cold! the noise stays constant throughout.

Feared it maybe a noisy oil pump, but no warning light on the dash and the car drives fine otherwise, no problems at all. just cant figure where that loud rattle is coming from.

Any ideas?

[weggie]

Hi Guys, just reading this post and i have a very similar problem with my 2005 B7 2.0 tdi. Very rattly engine on idle, but doesn't seem to go quiter or louder at any point hot or cold! the noise stays constant throughout.

Feared it maybe a noisy oil pump, but no warning light on the dash and the car drives fine otherwise, no problems at all. just cant figure where that loud rattle is coming from.

Any ideas?

sounds like the dreaded olio chain problem, get checked out soon as, if the chain slips off the engine will be totalled, and could be a right off, but fix is costly, there may be Indy garages who will repair now for less than 2k. if you need more details get back in tough there is a forum with same issue I stared 4 years ago, it has over 200,000 views and many people with same problem.

I had problem and repaired cheap method of replacing worn parts for same items, not sure if you can still get them, but even so this repair would cost £600 or so. But if you are due timing belt change, the work is similar, so cost not so high as you need to spend rough same sum to do this work.

I did find this eBay site which relates to same issue and has solution and can quote you.

VW Audi VAG 2.0 TDI oil pump balance shaft repair service | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VW-Audi-VAG-2-0-TDI-oil-pump-balance-shaft-repair-service-/181398549385)

and if you want to read the 1200 threads on subject read this site below. The people recently affected May be better placed to advise

http://www.audi-sport.net/vb/audi-s4-a4-a4-cab-b7-chassis/81997-2-0-tdi-oil-pump-balance-shaft-failure-28.html

let me know if you need more info?

good luck

[peter 135]

The first thing to determine is the rattle coming from the air con compressor pulley(as was the case with my '06 A4).I would say the quickest way to check this would be to remove the pulley belt and see is the noise still there.If the noise is gone the a/c pulley is more than likely the cause.If the noise is still there further investigation is then required.

Peter135

[Autologix]

Thanks for the post, i will re-check the ac pump again to see oif thats the culprit. If not, then it must be down to the bal shaft.

thanks again guys, threads really useful.

will keep you posted on the outcome.

[70325]

Turn engine off, put your hand on the air con pulley if you can move it side to side and you'll hear the same clanking noise it's Knakerd, I did mine, a **** easy job the kit cost me £90 on eBay genuine Audi. It comes with the rubber buffers, new pulley and fixing clips. I took off the belt, dropped the air con pump (left the hoses on) it hangs down enough to do the Job took me about a hour or so. Noise Gone! The old rubbers were non existent hence the noise. The outer part of the clutch assembly is hitting the inner with no shock absorption.. Everyone loves the chain failure horror stories the amount of times I read that for every f**cking noise

[Autologix]

Sorry for the late reply guys, but though i'd keep you in the loop on the outcome.

Firstly checked the AC pump and that appeared ok, whipped the belt of and the noise was still there. no play in the pulley.

Turned out the chain on the oil pump was the problem. Luckily managed to get hold a cog type pump from later 08 plate which had been re-worked, cost me £350, had it fitted for £450 by local Audi specialist and now the car seems alot quiter. the whole front subframe had to come away before the pump could be accessed - so managed to get the timing belt and w/pump replaced at the same time. Just as well i had it checked, the old chain was literally hanging loose!

thanks guys for all your guidance and comments.

[weggie]

Sorry for the late reply guys, but though i'd keep you in the loop on the outcome.

Firstly checked the AC pump and that appeared ok, whipped the belt of and the noise was still there. no play in the pulley.

Turned out the chain on the oil pump was the problem. Luckily managed to get hold a cog type pump from later 08 plate which had been re-worked, cost me £350, had it fitted for £450 by local Audi specialist and now the car seems alot quiter. the whole front subframe had to come away before the pump could be accessed - so managed to get the timing belt and w/pump replaced at the same time. Just as well i had it checked, the old chain was literally hanging loose!

thanks guys for all your guidance and comments.

Thanx for confirming how you got on, as was suggested by others there could have been other issues, but my guess seems to have been correct.

Your 450 price was very good, we did similar replacement repair and as you say it's allot of effort, took me 2 weekends to get front end off,and sub frame off to get access to the sump, we hired engine lift and the hydraulics were ******, so had to complete following the weekend! And this was kid January in 2009 when it was minus 12!.

like you I took opportunity to do timing belts, also did water pump. All bits bobs, and oil land engine coolant plus trimming belt etc cost me £500. I replaced the units with the same cog, chain and the chain guide thingy with same parts, these were £80 from audi. I don't think they supply any more but you can get them in sebay I see.

So what is a cog type pump? Do you have any pics, send them to me if you can to Murd.Thomsonatntlworldcom, keen to know what other options there are, as if I have to do same again, then need to know options, I took the view then I wold do at 50,000 miles, how've now done 37,000! I had 75,000 miles on the clock.

Good luck on the repair.

[Autologix]

Thanks matey.

Unlike yourself, the weather was on our side, and i know how it feels doing a big job like this in freezing temps.

In fairness, im not too familiar with the components on these models, im usually a BM man. The replacement pump came from my local VW/Audi breakers yard, from what they've told me the earlier models used a chain to drive the shaft, whereas the later ones used a gear type cog (approx 4inches in diameter) to drive the shaft instead. Luckily the later cog driven pumps are compatible with earlier models. However, this still doesn't solve the balance shaft issue, as both types suffered (please correct me if im wrong guys) but the pump i bought had the bal shaft re-worked and comes with a 6 month warranty.

As for the fitting, we found lots of missing bolts and worn bolt heads, which suggests the previous owner had a go and realised the problem and flogged the damm thing to me:( Nonethesless im not bitter, im actually glad to have found the problem and sorted it at reaonsable cost. Sorry i didnt take a pics of the replacement pump.

What i cant understand is, i've had a dozen A3's in my time with the same engine. All been high milers and no problems with the pump at all. Only the usual turbo and dredded dpf issues. Which is unusual, as on the A3's you can acess the pump without having the drop the subframe. when speaking to my VW guy, he said he's only changed very few A3 pumps, but countless A4's. anyone know if the A3's used a different or upgraded pump to the A4's?