a4 170 Sline 2.0 TDI

[craggit]

Hi i was thinking or re-mapping my car can this website claims it can get me this,

Audi A4 TDI 2.0 PD 170
Standard mapped Standard Mapped
170 hp 200 hp 350 NM 410 NM

Is this torque more than the flywheel and clutch can take? Also im looking for the 3 piece lip spoiler for my car but everywhere says for non-S line, i was wondering what the difference between the S-line and the A4 was what would make this not fit? :1zhelp:

[randall977]

I hope so, I'm going to try out a diesel tuning box which will reult in nearly 200bhp. It should be fine clutch wise, I think the same clutch is used for more powerfull engines...

[craggit]

ah ok nice i was reading in later posts that anything about 275 lb/ft of torque may result in the clutch slipping as oppose to giving full power do you know what the chances of this are as the 410 nm is about 300 lb/ft? also can the rear seats be folded down? i cant seem to find a way to make em go down....

[kite]

Only if you have folding seats... not all cars have, look at the top of the seat by the headrest, folding seats have a lock there.....

[Issac Hunt]

I'm not sure what else shares the same clutch?

200BHP is optimistic I think. You might have issues with smoke and the DPF with an aggressive remap. The ability of the clutch to cope depends on the torque level and the aggresiveness of its delivery. TBH I wouldnt bother with a remap, how hard do you really drive your car? Just drive it as it is, enjoy it and the save the money.

[craggit]

Ok well i dont think mine has folding seats... which is a bummer.... i just wanted to remap but if its going to cause alot of running problems ill maybe not, but surely the ESP will stop any damage to the clutch due to aggressive acceleration?

[Adman]

The difference between the SE and S Line are the boots. See the photos attached for the difference. The S Line has already a lip in the boot.

Ad

[craggit]

Right well mine's got S-line on the grill at the front, doors, same alloys as in the picture and also single exhaust exits on both sides of the car no s-line emblems anywhere else and it doesn't have the definitive lip that stands up like id'e want it just has a sort of bump as in flat horizontally but has an indentation along the whole boot when it goes on the vertical part? would it look odd butting the 3 piece spoiler on the S-line?

[TMC Motorsport]

TMC Motorsport have plug in fully digital tuning boxes for all Audi diesel models including the latest EDC17 models which can't be remapped.

Have a look on our website for figures and info www.tmcmotorsport.com

We are offering a special forum price of £349 inc VAT and delivery. You can also re-use this unit on your next car as the controller can be programmed for most modern turbo petrol and turbo diesel engines (a new wiring harness may be required depending on make and model but re-programming the unit for your next car is free). All units can fitted or removed in 20 minutes or less and are ideal for cars under warranty were dealers are regularly flashing new software to the cars.

Any questions PM or email me info@tmcmotorsport.com

[craggit]

How do i know if my car is the CR 170 DPF or the 170 PD?

[randall977]

Yes I looked at the TMC boxes, close to buying but it was +£350 with VAT, shame I didn't see your deal on here... I've gone for one of these http://www.mydieselbox.co.uk/audi-a4-2-0-tdi-170-bhp-diesel-tuning.html as recommended by my brother-in-law (used on his 5 series) and less than £200. Still if it's no good I can just unplug and get a TMC one!

[craggit]

yea think ill buy 1 of the tmc boxes how easy are they to fit? it will be end of January now i get a bonus this month so ill but it out of that also what is delivery time? is the box sent out first class?

[TMC Motorsport]

How do i know if my car is the CR 170 DPF or the 170 PD?

The DPF cars generally have tailpipes pointing straight out because there is no smoke from it so the exhaust will look clean inside. The non DPF car tailpipe will point to the ground to direct the smoke downwards and the inside of the tailpipe will be black with soot.

On CR or PD if you take the engine cover off you will see the common rail if you have one it looks similar to this photo:


http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/7274/cr2z.th.jpg (http://img684.imageshack.us/i/cr2z.jpg/)

Hope this helps.

[TMC Motorsport]

yea think ill buy 1 of the tmc boxes how easy are they to fit? it will be end of January now i get a bonus this month so ill but it out of that also what is delivery time? is the box sent out first class?

Delivery is next day by Royal Mail Special Delivery and the difference with our box for the common rail engine is that it controls fuelling and also boost pressure, the benefit of controlling boost pressure as well as a bit more power is it forces more air through the engine and the DPF which stops it from becoming blocked with soot. The soot will naturally increase when you increase the fuelling so you compensate by adding more air to balance the fuel/air ratio just like a remap does but externally controlled.

If your tuning box only controls fuelling and you turn it up too high you will block the DPF and if it won't regenerate your in for a bill to replace it of well over a grand! So be careful with the cheaper units, you get what you pay for!

By the way don't buy it from the webshop as thats just normal retail price which with the VAT increase is just over £380 now. Forum members get a special discount to £349 inc vat and delivery, if you want to order email me and i'll send you an invoice by email at the discounted price. If you can get 5 people to buy together I will give a further 10% discount to each buyer.

Cheers

[craggit]

Ok so your box can guarantee no DPF blocking? my exhaust pipes face downwards and its got soot on and in the exhaust pipe... this mean i dont have a DPF?:1zhelp:

[craggit]

just looked and mine looks different to the CR it has on the right hand side of the engine a manifold and on the left 1 pipe about 1 - 1 1/2 inch diameter with 2 smaller pipes connecting to it is it the pressure injection engine?

[TMC Motorsport]

Ok so your box can guarantee no DPF blocking? my exhaust pipes face downwards and its got soot on and in the exhaust pipe... this mean i dont have a DPF?:1zhelp:

Yes my opinion would be you have no DPF. I'm not 100% sure but I think all the common rail cars have DPF so yours may be a PD engine. If you get the engine code I can check further.

On the DPF issue, yes I can guarantee the DPF will not block with our fuel/boost pressure kit fitted.

[TMC Motorsport]

just looked and mine looks different to the CR it has on the right hand side of the engine a manifold and on the left 1 pipe about 1 - 1 1/2 inch diameter with 2 smaller pipes connecting to it is it the pressure injection engine?

Can you take a photo of your engine with your phone and email it to me? info@tmcmotorsport.com The pipe your describing sounds like exhaust gas recirculation pipes but would need to see a photo.

[craggit]

ok done i hope you can make it out as camera's net very good and its dark :P

[TMC Motorsport]

This is a photo of the 170ps common rail engine:

http://img694.imageshack.us/img694/658/cr170engine.th.jpg (http://img694.imageshack.us/i/cr170engine.jpg/)

[randall977]

Common Rail (CR) came in' in '08 for Audi, mine is a pre '08 and is Pumpe Duse (PD). PD basically means the diesel is pressurised at each injector by a cam. CR pressurises a single tube connected to all injectors - a common rail. The connector for a CR is fairly standard (as is the method of engine control) and so diesel boxes are much cheaper for CR. PD connectors are a more unusual and so is the method of engine control, hence a diesel box for PD is more expensive. The DPF is a diesel particulate filter, I assumed most Audi's post '06 had these fitted, hope I'm wrong on this one!

If I'm talking total twaddle please correct me TMC Motorsport!

[TMC Motorsport]

Common Rail (CR) came in' in '08 for Audi, mine is a pre '08 and is Pumpe Duse (PD). PD basically means the diesel is pressurised at each injector by a cam. CR pressurises a single tube connected to all injectors - a common rail. The connector for a CR is fairly standard (as is the method of engine control) and so diesel boxes are much cheaper for CR. PD connectors are a more unusual and so is the method of engine control, hence a diesel box for PD is more expensive. The DPF is a diesel particulate filter, I assumed most Audi's post '06 had these fitted, hope I'm wrong on this one!

If I'm talking total twaddle please correct me TMC Motorsport!

No Randall your pretty spot on, not sure about all post 06 having DPF though. The PD units work in a completely different way controlling the individual injectors but some 07 170PD were fitted with high voltage Piezo injectors and these are a nightmare to tune and the box really expensive, on this model I would recommend remap as it will be cheaper than any box available but for the non piezo PD and the CR engine a box is a real alternative.
I will say though that the latest EDC17 cars don't run well with only rail pressure tuning, they will run for a few hours and then go into limp mode. Thats why we use the fuel and boost control with a connection to the cam sensor to measure the engine speed and make live alterations while the car is accelerating. They work really well and keep the DPF clean too. These latest EDC17 ECU's can't be remapped either.

[craggit]

Well according to the information ive had on here mine doesn't have a DPF does this mean i can install a cat back performance exhaust system with no problems?

[TMC Motorsport]

Well according to the information ive had on here mine doesn't have a DPF does this mean i can install a cat back performance exhaust system with no problems?

You can actually remove the DPF even if you have one, some companies offer replacement performance units. Removing it alone would help your performance as they really do strangle the engine. If your car is under warranty though you will void it by doing this!

[craggit]

my car is 2006 56 plate so the 3 years is up now and i have 60190 miles on the clock. It's just i heard of removing the DPF can put the car into limp mode and possibly put engine management light up, this wasn't on audi's though. will it pass an MOT without a DPF as the DPF is there just to retain the completely burnt diesel, so in turn this will in effect be the same exhaust emission as with the filter but will just be black?

[TMC Motorsport]

my car is 2006 56 plate so the 3 years is up now and i have 60190 miles on the clock. It's just i heard of removing the DPF can put the car into limp mode and possibly put engine management light up, this wasn't on audi's though. will it pass an MOT without a DPF as the DPF is there just to retain the completely burnt diesel, so in turn this will in effect be the same exhaust emission as with the filter but will just be black?

Definately you will not fail MOT as your emissions will just be the same as an Audi with no DPF, higher than before of course but still well within legal limits. If you buy a proper replacement from a reputable company you won't have warning light issues.

As I said it definately won't be the same exhaust emission as the DPF cuts emissions but you will have the same emissions as a non DPF Audi and well below legal limits.

DPF's are proving a disaster for dealers, if you don't do regular motorway trips and all town driving like taxi drivers you will likely end up with the light on at some point anyway because it can't get to regenerate. The dealer then has to regenerate it manually.

All this rubbish was designed to fight the so called global warming. Doesn't feel too warm outside at the minute Lol

[craggit]

Indeed lol like i said anyway i don't think my car has a DPF any way as the exhausts are pointing down as was mentioned earlier in this post, is there any way of identifying this DPF?

[TMC Motorsport]

Indeed lol like i said anyway i don't think my car has a DPF any way as the exhausts are pointing down as was mentioned earlier in this post, is there any way of identifying this DPF?

Yeah it looks like this:

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/2341/07jeepdieseldpf.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/07jeepdieseldpf.jpg/)

http://img27.imageshack.us/img27/7407/0702dp11z2008powrstroke.th.jpg (http://img27.imageshack.us/i/0702dp11z2008powrstroke.jpg/)

[craggit]

wow that thing is huge! it needs taking off lol is the 2.0 TDI layout the same as another b7 A4's? as i cant find any on-line shops that sell them ready made.... am i best off taking it to a custom exhaust shop thats about 20 mins away from me and get it done properly?

[TMC Motorsport]

wow that thing is huge! it needs taking off lol is the 2.0 TDI layout the same as another b7 A4's? as i cant find any on-line shops that sell them ready made.... am i best off taking it to a custom exhaust shop thats about 20 mins away from me and get it done properly?

It won't necessarily be exactly that size but that general shape, also can be near the engine or further down the exhaust. I would contact the custom exhaust companies, they will surely have dealt with the DPF issue many times and should know how to successfully remove it.

[craggit]

Excellent ill contact them tomorrow about how much it will cost and tail pipes what size should i go for? 2 and quarter inch pipe to the back box?

Horsepower
200-300

Single Exhaust Pipe Diameter
3"

Dual Exhaust Pipe Diameter
2 1/4"

does my car class as a single exhaust or dual as it splits at the back of the car?

[TMC Motorsport]

Excellent ill contact them tomorrow about how much it will cost and tail pipes what size should i go for? 2 and quarter inch pipe to the back box?

Horsepower
200-300

Single Exhaust Pipe Diameter
3"

Dual Exhaust Pipe Diameter
2 1/4"

does my car class as a single exhaust or dual as it splits at the back of the car?

You know what they say, the bigger the better lol :beerchug:

[craggit]

too big the exhaust has a negative effect on the engine and it looses power as you loose back pressure think ill go 3" anyway

[randall977]

Only the common rail 170 has piezo injectors? This article written in '06 says otherwise; http://paultan.org/2006/05/23/new-audi-20-tdi-with-piezo-injection/ ???

[craggit]

Argh this article says all 2.0 TDI 170 ps are peizo injectors the injectors give it the extra 30ps from the previous 140 ps from the 2.0 TDI engines >.< this is going be bad for me lol

[randall977]

This review http://uk.cars.yahoo.com/car-reviews/car-and-driving/audi-a4-2.0tdi-170-1005142.html says 'This engine also features Piezo injectors that precisely meter fuel delivery to provide more power and even stronger performance. Featuring a high-pressure pump and rail for the four cylinder engine, the Piezo system permits up to five separate amounts of fuel to be injected on each working stroke at an injection pressure of 1,600 bar - 250 bar more than with previous common rail systems.' ???? Notice the use of the word 'rail' in this paragraph...but in 2006 surely this was tioo early to talk about CR for Audi???

I think the extra 30bhp has more to do with the extra intercooler which you will find under the bonnet of the 170!

[craggit]

god im all confused

[randall977]

Ditto...

[TMC Motorsport]

Ditto...

Simple to check if your engine is PD it will have a large round black plug on the side of the cylinder head, this is the loom to the injectors, if you pull slightly back the red clip you can twist off this connector and count the number of pins inside, if it has 9 pins its not Piezo if it has 10 pins then it is Piezo.

Otherwise if it a CR engine it will look like the photo I posted earlier and you will be able to see the commonrail on the engine with thin pipes going off it to the injectors. On PD engines you can't see the injectors because they are inside the cylinder head as such.

[randall977]

A great tip, thanks - I will check tonight!

[randall977]

Took these photos to show what I think is a piezo injector connection - 10 pin...

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4009/4251291201_3a9d4cb0ae_o.jpg

This is what I think is a DPF

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2772/4251291117_b7fb3372f4_o.jpg

Can anybody confirm? If I'm right then my remapping / tuning box options are limited???

[TMC Motorsport]

Hi Randall, you are correct on both counts, its is PD Piezo and has DPF! Your remapping options are not limited, just tuning box, where are you in the country I will recommend a few places for remapping. Tuning box is not an option for you except for Steinbauer but dig deep they cost a small fortune for piezo cars.

[randall977]

Thanks for the great info despite me not being able to use your product. I'm near Oxford. Evolution Chips are nearby but I'm not keen on having to pay to reinstall a remap after a service - even if it's only £50. Blue Fin avoids this but you have to pay a lot to transfer it to your next car. A diesel box avoids these problems but by the sound of it the one I need is too expensive - £350 is really my max right now.

[TMC Motorsport]

Thanks for the great info despite me not being able to use your product. I'm near Oxford. Evolution Chips are nearby but I'm not keen on having to pay to reinstall a remap after a service - even if it's only £50. Blue Fin avoids this but you have to pay a lot to transfer it to your next car. A diesel box avoids these problems but by the sound of it the one I need is too expensive - £350 is really my max right now.

Randall I have a brand new Steinbauer unit here in box never used, its been sittin on the shelf about a year and a half, I got it in specially for a customer who never came for it. £250 all in if you want it, probably less than half price. Its the proper big heavy Piezo unit, if you email me info@tmcmotorsport.com I'll send you pics of it. As said its never been out of the box. Brand new never opened but a year and a half old if you know what I mean.

[randall977]

Fantastic! Email sent!

[craggit]

Just looked at mine i couldn't twist off the black connector i slid the red clip up so it was clear but mine has the DPF and it also has 10 wires as i counted re-counted then counted again and for what i can see at the back of the connector there are 10 wires entering the cylinder head :aargh4:

[TMC Motorsport]

Just looked at mine i couldn't twist off the black connector i slid the red clip up so it was clear but mine has the DPF and it also has 10 wires as i counted re-counted then counted again and for what i can see at the back of the connector there are 10 wires entering the cylinder head :aargh4:

I only have this one box and I think Randall wants it. Your only option is a remap. I'll check tomorrow but I'm sure none of the companies I deal with make it for that engine, they won't invest the money in developing it because the engine was only used a short time then replaced with CR.

[TMC Motorsport]

I'll be in Queensferry, Deeside in a few weeks, I could remap any cars needing done and they have a brand new dyno dynamics RR. Email me if anyone is interested. info@tmcmotorsport.com

[craggit]

nah m8 ill just get it remapped then i know the guy at my local audi garage he is the parts and servicing manager ill see what he can do in regards to keeping the re-map on if there is anything he can do.

[randall977]

Couldn't see a red bit - just twisted the connector off. Thanks TMC Motorsport!

[Hakydan]

Im going to have my 170 mapped tomorrow and really can't wait.

Ive decided to go for a remap as it seems to be the best way to do it. One of my customers is doing it for me who are a very well respected company when it comes to RR and remaps.

I will be having a word with them to see if I can arrange a forum discount for anyone wanting to have their car done aswell so hopefully - fingers crossed.

I'll let you know how I get on.

[craggit]

Great ill be looking at re-map as soon as i get some money saved up again!

[Hakydan]

WOW, WOW, WOW!!

I had the 170 remapped at the weekend and what a difference.

So much more responsive, the final results

215bhp with 369ft lb

[Issac Hunt]

215bhp with 369ft lb

Can you post the dyno printout? It'd be interetsing to see the power/torque curves........