B6 Vs B7 A4 what do you think? [Archive] - VW Audi Forum - The #1 Volkswagen (VW) Forum Dedicated to the whole Volkswagen (VW) Group

skymaster

30-12-2009, 10:30 PM

Hi

I currently own a 2003 TDI Quattro A4 saloon, it's an SE 130 BHP version. It's a lovely car but I have a hankering to change it for a newer one, possibly petrol (insane I know given that we might be paying £1.25 a litre by the spring).

A brand new shape A4 is way out of my budget so I am looking at 2005 - 2007 B7 models. I actually think this shape looks the best out of all of them, I am not taken by the new ones.

My quandry is that I will be shelling out a fair old wad (around 10k on top of whats mine is worth) to buy a car that is basically the same as mine with a different body and grill. Is this the case or are the B7s largely different in any way from the B6s? I know the dash is essentially the same with a few trim upgrades. What about the underpinnings and technology in them?

Any help or advice appreciated

a8 tech

30-12-2009, 11:41 PM

stick with the b6 or buy a better spec/styling B6.If I choose a B7 it would be rs4 only.The 2.0 pd engine is more refined but unreliable with heavy repair bills, as with the b6 the electrics and body build are superb with very few issue's the 2.0 tfsi engine is a great engine.Find a 2004 s line b6 full spec,they look better in my opinion and seem to be holding there value far better than B7 to those who know.I have a soft spot for the B7 s line avant style but a good b6 s line is just as good looking and less common.

skymaster

30-12-2009, 11:46 PM

Thanks for this info... So the 2.0 TDI is best avoided then?

To be honest I think I might give diesel a break, I have been yearning for something high reving and smooth. Although last time I had that I yearned from something torquey and with Good MPG... Never happy.

I was originally thinking of either a 2.0T Quattro S line special edition (220 BHP instead of 200 on the usual ones) or going mad and getting a 3.2 V6 FSI 250 BHP.

a8 tech

30-12-2009, 11:51 PM

2.0T wise choice. 3.2 underwhelming and very rare

skymaster

31-12-2009, 12:00 AM

Yes, I think there are about three 3.2s with manual gear boxes in the whole of the UK on the Audi used network... B7s with Quattro anyway...

The other option is the 3.0 TDI... again very rare and I would have to be prepared to travel far... My friend has this engine in his A5 and I am constantly impressed by it...

My thinking behind the 3.2 petrol is the lack of turbo... having recently had one blow on me! The cost of repairing that would have easily paid for higher fuel bills for 2 years or more! But if it's not got a fair bit of grunt then it will be out... the awful MPG would be doubly awful if there isn't some serious performance to match.

There is certainly plenty of choice with the 2.0 T engine in Quattro...

It would either have to be B7 or just stick with what I have for another couple of years...

El Guapo

31-12-2009, 11:02 AM

What about the 2.7 V6? Not sure if they do that in petrol though? I also agree that the new A4 is just not right somehow. I have looked at them a lot but just don't like the shape and how it looks. I wonder how long before Audi make some changes to it? I like the A5 4 door better to be honest.

MeAudi

31-12-2009, 12:53 PM

I moved from a B6 to a B7 at the start of 2009 and found a number of improvements, particularly with the handling and grip.

The ride is also better but still not brilliant, particularly on the 18" rims.

I looked at the B8 but really couldn't justify the extra money and I'm not keen on what they've done with the inside.

The 2.0 TFSI engine is great but don't expect good economy. As mentioned by others, have a look at www.spritmonitor.de to get an idea of mpg especially since you are coming over from the dark side!

Hopefully, you can take you time to find the spec you want. Changes were made to the B7 in 2007.

If I was buying again then I would probably have gone for a 2.7TDI with a good remap.

skymaster

31-12-2009, 02:05 PM

Hi

The 2.7s are rare as hens teeth with Quattro... I don't think I have seen one yet. As I already have quattro I want another one with Quattro, a 2WD would be a downgrade in many respects.

Yes, I did assume that the petrol 2.0 T would be a bit of a guzzler, it's not a light car either so MPG is going to be fairly pants.

I am glad I am not the only one who doesn't like the brand new ones. The inside seems to have taken on a slightly flimsey plastic like quality and the styling is all wrong in my opinion. They got the A5 so right... but the new A4 so wrong in terms of looks... but thats just my opinion obviously.

I think I would sooner buy a 220 SpecialEdition S line than buy a 200 version and get it re mapped. Try to keep it standard. I have also thought about R32 golfs or a GTI but the A4 seems like a far higher quality beast from the outset... and much better value on used examples.

El Guapo

31-12-2009, 02:21 PM

Mine is the 2.7 tdi sline and was thinking of getting it mapped but it is still under warranty.

DBSK

31-12-2009, 02:52 PM

I looked at doing the exact same thing, ive got a 2004 1.9TDI B6 Avant and looked at changing to a 2.0TDI S-Line B7.

However the interior is very similar with only a few small tweeks here and there.

The 2.0tdi engine is a big improvement on the 1.9 in terms of refinement however its not in a different league therefore i could not justify the extra £££ it would take to get into a B.07 so im going to save money by keeping mine going and spend the rest on mods.

:beerchug:

skymaster

31-12-2009, 03:36 PM

Hi DBSK

Well I guess I echo your sentiments to a certain degree, which is why I began this thread to see if anyone could advise of any significant improvements to the B7s over the B6s. My TDI is a 2003 model with just over 90k on the clock, so is worth very little. To change up to a 2006/07 B7 with quattro and a decent engine will be around 10k on top of PXing mine in..... which is a lot of cash for a car that might prove to be just marginally better than what I have now.

After all... my current car goes well, is comfortable (SE spec on 16 inch rims), handles well considering and has a very good MPG to performance ratio. I can park it in a dimly lit street without too much fear of vandals targeting it... although no one is ever safe from this threat!

I might wait til mid next year and see what the state of play is then. I guess newer petrol B7s will be dropping in price a lot faster than my old TDI B6.

DBSK

31-12-2009, 05:45 PM

I was looking at around 10k to change up aswell which indeed seems like alot of money for a slightly different car..

I was lucky enough to get a B7 S-Line for 10 days and a B8 S-Line for 7 days as a courtesy car earlier in the year when someone drove into my back bumper (Long story) and although they were both improvements on my car i wouldnt say the improvement was anywhere near worth the extra capital needed IMO.

Ben

31-12-2009, 08:32 PM

I am also not a fan of the looks of the B8, especially the rear of both saloon and avants, both look too squat.

skymaster

01-01-2010, 05:33 PM

Yes Ben

It's the rear of the saloon I can't stand... It just doesn't look right... I think the B7s look the business... they took everything that looked nice about the B6 then just tightened it all up and modernised it a bit.

I have never actually driven a B7 car, I test drove my friends A5 before he bought it and that was in a different league... felt like a totally new generation of car.... Very nice!!!

As is always the case with changing ones car... what you have is worth bugger all... and what you want is worth far too much!

skymaster

10-01-2010, 04:07 PM

Just been to test drive a 2006 2.0T S line Quattro special edition 220 HP car... up at £12,999....

Was generally impressed with the car, the spec etc etc... not as quick as I expected but generally quite impressive, especially the ride & handling compared to my old TDI SE...

But for the amount of money to change (8.5k in this case) I didn't feel it was better or different enough from my current car to warrant all this cash.

A deal might well have been done if the garage hadn't been so inflexible about price... they offered me 4.5k in PX and NO DISCOUNT on the ticket price which just wasn't tempting enough... I was also fairly umimpressed at how they remained silent as we pointed out some issues with the car... yet they seemed very vocal about plenty of 'issues' about my car... usual stuff... annoying enough to send me away anyway...

My only other option to get into one of these new ones would be to sell mine privately then make up the difference...

Mmmmm

ALF_A4

11-01-2010, 12:42 PM

We were happy to consider B6 1.8T's and B7 2.0T's when we bought ours (the latter). For me the B6 has a more classic shape but the B7's has grown on me in recent years, it is more modern looking and very pretty in Avant S-Line form.

Audi made a lot of noise about moving the gearbox back, and indeed using a new gearbox, to improve the shift quality and weight balance when the B7 came out and there are some quite positive reviews out there especially of the 2.0T FWD compared to the previous model. (one link below) The steering, suspension settings, etc were also all (allegedly!) heavily tweaked - including taking many things from the B6 S4. I'd be interested to give an equivalent B6 a good thrash and see how it compared.

I get 36-38mpg from my 2.0T FWD which was the clincher in keeping the car over my other one (156 GTA SW 3.2) despite that being much more enjoyable a steer when I changed jobs to one where I do a lot of miles.

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Audi-A4-2.0-TFSI/210924/

MattSLine

13-01-2010, 09:23 PM

I've a 2.0Tfsi S Line SE and generally i'm pleased with it. The mpg started off good in the high 30's but now i've got to say its dropped to 32mpg as i'm starting to enjoy the engine a bit more.
I have to say that i think the car is deceptive in terms of speed. I came from a 2.0tdi car into this petrol and did feel a little dissapointed that it did not seem initially to have the kick in the back you get in a diesel, however now i've got used to it i remember that you really have to wind a petrol up to get the best out of it and when i hang onto the revs i scare myself how rapidly it gets to licence losing speeds! It does nearly 100mph in 3rd and 120mph in 4th easily. On a private road of course!:D

I'd go for it in terms of upgrading to the B7 especially as when you pass that magic 100k miles the car will be less attractive. I'd also go back to petrol as i've done, if you go steady the fuel economy isnt bad considering the bhp and the smoothness and refinement are well ahead of diesels, even the smoother V6's. Go for it man you only live once!!;)

judgefudge

13-01-2010, 10:28 PM

Good thread ! Just moved to B7 myself recently - as stated car feels tighter all round in diesel format - still getting used to the styling - still think a well sorted B6 Avant has that 'just right' look and proportion. B6 values still ok but for how long - the B7 S-line Tdi's are the choice for me...

skymaster

14-01-2010, 01:02 AM

Thanks for the input MattSline...

Yes, I guess as a TDI driver of over three years I need to re learn how to get the best from a decent petrol engine again... I guess I missed out on that huge wollop of torque when I drove the 2.0T FSI 220... But the high revving engine is such a breath of fresh air compared to my lovely lumpy 4 pot TDI...

There seems to be a fairly decent number of the special edition 220 versions about with Quattro... for around the 12-14k mark... or 13.5 + on the Audi used network...

Good point about off loading mine while it's still under the 100k mark... I guess going from 2 to three figures makes all the difference...

One thing stopping me is that I know my current car so well... it's running on a very fresh new turbo, only 20k since clutch and flywheel... so I know it's good for plenty more miles yet unless I get really unlucky with a gearbox or head gasket...

Does anyone know the actual difference between the 220 and the 200 FSI turbo engine? Is it just mapping or does it have a different turbo? I would be reluctant to get it chipped... so want something with enough grunt to begin with...

skymaster

14-01-2010, 01:31 AM

In fact... MattSline, as you own one of these could I tap your brain briefly???

Does yours have drilled discs at the front? This used one I saw does... and I wondered if thats the standard Audi Discs... or if a previous keeper has attempted to 'upgrade' them....

I am looking for as completely standard car ideally...

MattSLine

14-01-2010, 09:21 AM

Yeh mines standard throughout and has the drilled front discs. I believe the additons to the SE are more bhp 217 rather than 197, leather seats, de-chromed grill and window surrounds etc, metal foot pedals and RS4 alloys. Cannot think of anything else!

I would spend the extra for the Quattro though as there is no way you can fully open her up in 1st gear, even in the dry, without the traction control kicking in and in the wet / snowy whether its a bloomin nightmare! Quattro all the way!

What disappoints me slightly about the car is the bumpy ride, its very smooth, but bumpy more than i've known in other cars and no cruise control is seriously tight. My old Mondeo even had that!!

vwlt

14-01-2010, 11:59 AM

I have thought about this too, having driven both, the 2.0 TDI is quicker, but not as smooth as the 1.9. The reason for considering the change is that they B6 to B7 facelift was quite significant in technology, suspension etc. I cant find the article which summarises it all, but here is a link for the B7 A4 explainly briefly the updates ....

http://www.audizine.com/wiki/index.php?title=B7_A4

Hope this helps

Road Rocket

14-01-2010, 09:21 PM

If you can manage it go for the B7 3.0TDi. A V6 diesel engine which is beautifully smooth without the diesel clatter, has awesome torque, has the grip of quattro and is a sheer pleasure to drive. If you do get one have it remapped for fabulous cracking performance, I had mine done by SharkPerformance and I smile every time I drive it, especially on motorways where it records a leisurely tick-over of around 1800rpm at 80mph (and before anybody says it, yes, I know the speed limit is 70mph).

skymaster

15-01-2010, 12:41 PM

Yes, Road Rocket...

That 3.0 TDI engine is amazing, my friend has that in his A5 quattro... I am always amazed by how it sounds, totally NOT like a diesel. It is very fast and powerful and on a long run he scrapes about 45 MPG from it... which from a 230 BHP engine is like a dream come true!

I would like one of these, but they are very very rare on the used market (with low miles anyway) and still expensive. I guess if you own one you are going to hang onto it as it's such a good combination!

The pre 2007 ones are also less powerful unless I am mistaken... 200 instead of 230 maybe? But it's the torque that makes that engine.

I still can't decide, I get close to picking up the phone to put a deposit down on the one I test drove... but now the snow is clear it wont be about for long!

Marc1

15-01-2010, 12:54 PM

Special edition 2.0TFSI ha drilled front discs, also rs4 metal pedal set and two tone leather seats with embossed S Line logo, sill plates also have S Line logo. So if you remeber seeing these other features that would indicate standard discs. Can't remeber if there where any other spec edit features of the top of my head.

skymaster

15-01-2010, 12:59 PM

Hi

Yes, this one has leather, two tone with the S line badge on.. drilled front discs... and I think the S line sills too... And the multi spoke alloys

Road Rocket

15-01-2010, 02:45 PM

Skymaster: Good luck with your purchase. By the way, I wouldn't worry too much about high mileage where the 3.0TDI is concerned, usually this will be motorway mileage and that engine should be good for around 200,000 easily.

You're right about some pre-2007 being lower BHP but if you have them remapped the difference won't be noticed. Like you say, it's the torque that is the awesome thing about that engine.

I wish I could afford the latest A4 3.0TDI as they've not only improved the acceleration etc but also they give better mpg, mainly because of the lighter weight body. But hey, I'm not complaining the one I have is simply brilliant.

skymaster

15-01-2010, 06:04 PM

OK... I have finally given in and bought one... collect it Sunday...

It's a 2006 A4 2.0T special edition 220BHP version with 43k on the clock.... in bright red! My favorite colour basically!

Seen here:-

http://www.prestigesportscars.com/vehicle-details.asp?Make=4&RSpage=2&ID=1097267

This is the one I test drove last weekend... Seems very well priced compared to others around... maybe due to the colour..... it was almost immaculate though... stunning car...

I will let you know how it is when I get it... Assuming I survive telling my girlfriend about it !

DBSK

16-01-2010, 03:18 PM

Looks very nice, they do look good in red :beerchug:

MattSLine

17-01-2010, 06:53 PM

Looks very nice and you've a couple of extras that mine doesn't have such as parking sensors and auto dim interior mirror. I see its also a Quattro. Good move, i so wish mine was too! I notice it must be a different SE to mine as the alloys are different and it is not de-cromed. I guess they do different SE's at different times.

Very nice though and i'm sure you'll get a lot of pleasure from it like me!

msh

17-01-2010, 08:36 PM

skymaster

17-01-2010, 09:51 PM

Picked it up today... Very nice indeed... Being a 3 year TDI driver it's taking me a while to get used to it... but i am beginning to know where the power comes in now... and when you drive it right it's pretty quick... I would dread to think what happens to it after it's chipped... I plan to keep mine standard though...

It certainly handles way way better than the TDI SE B6... although I am gonna need new tyres soon... it currently has Dunlops on it... and you can feel it! I have never got on with Dunlops!

Was sad to see the old beast go... will miss that car... the B7 looks the biz and it's nice to be back in a proper drivers car...

MPG on the way home (80 miles or so) was about 37.... so about what I expected

msh

17-01-2010, 10:11 PM

DBSK

17-01-2010, 10:14 PM

It certainly handles way way better than the TDI SE B6... although I am gonna need new tyres soon... it currently has Dunlops on it... and you can feel it! I have never got on with Dunlops!

Congrats on the new car!

i had Dunlop SP Sport 01s on mine and they were shocking! Got Goodyear Eagle F1 aesymetrical now - brilliant tyres - i highly recommend!

Road Rocket

17-01-2010, 11:52 PM

I'll second DBSK; the Goodyear Eagle F1 asymetrics are absolutely brilliant. Easily on a par with Michelin Pilot PS2 but quite a bit cheaper. The only problem is both these highly rated sports tyres are not recommended for snow and freezing conditions - they are definitely not for winters like we have at presnt! However, under normal conditions I doubt whether there's any tyre that can match them for gripping road adhesion, especially in the wet and cornering ability at speed.

Congratulations on your new car from me also- it looks really good.

skymaster

18-01-2010, 12:25 AM

skymaster

18-01-2010, 12:27 AM

As for the snow...

I say buy decent tyres for wet & dry conditions... and when it freezes and snows just don't drive, it's so dangerous I just don't bother.. ... we will only get a few weeks of it each year maximum... unless of course global cooling really takes hold...

Road Rocket

18-01-2010, 10:13 AM

Agreed! The F1 GSD 3s were not good. However, the F1 Asymetrics are a completely different tyre and it's like comparing chalk and cheese. The Michelin's Pilot PS2 is on a similar level to the asymetrics but more costly.

Can't agree with you about going out in the snow and ice though - some of us just have to whether we like it or not. By the way, I've now had fitted and using the Nokian WR2's (winter tyres). Luckily we still had enough snow and ice on our steep lane to test them out and they are just brilliant. Even my Quattro developed some spin on the worst parts when on its summer tyres, these Nokians react as if they have claws in the tyres and apart from really deep drifts I think I can now deal with anything the snow brings.

MattSLine

18-01-2010, 06:15 PM

DBSK

18-01-2010, 06:20 PM

Thanks guys...

OK... I used to swear by Goodyear F1s (GSD3s) on my Golf... They were excellent...

So I assume the asymetrics are a different version that is more ideal for the sports saloon???

I remember when I bought my last A4 I did stick a set of the F1 GSD 3s on there and they were awful (Maybe because these were not the asymetric ones??) ... so went for Michelins in the end... which have been ace...

Someone will correct me if im wrong but i believe the Aesymetrics replaced the GSD3s, my mates run Aesymetrics on the BMW 330 and Mondeo ST and they both rate them massively aswell.

Crap in snow but who cares - all cars are rubbish on snow. Id rather have a good tyre for the other 350 days of the year.

skymaster

18-01-2010, 06:44 PM

Is there any wheel spin at all then when you floor it in 1st Skymaster? If not i bet it flys! I'm dead jealous i didnt go for the Quattro, but they were just too pricey over the 2 wheel drive for me on an 07 plate!

No, it will only spin the wheels on ice.... Basically the way Torsen Quattro works it will give 50% to the front, and 50% to the back... but if I go to pull out uber quickly and the fronts start to lose grip it will transfer some of their power to the back... I think at it's extremes it can go to 90/10.. not sure though...

Basically in a quattro car you can floor it as much as you like and all the power just gets put down where it should and sends you forward... Having had quattro for over three years now I would never go back...

Sorry... you didn't want to hear that did you...

MattSLine

18-01-2010, 11:22 PM

Good info but never mind, i'll wait for summer to come and then i should be able to give it nearly full throttle!

On a separate note, i'd watch the oil usage as i've put loads in so far. Having hardly ever checked the oil on my last car, despite doing 30,000 miles a year, i need to check this one every other week and usually end up topping it up. I've put a good 2 litres in over the last 4 months. Apparantly this is a characteristic of this engine, so keep your eye on the levels. As i said i do 25-30,000 miles per annum so may use more than the average

skymaster

18-01-2010, 11:24 PM

Oh yes... I always carry some spare in the boot... and usually check regularly...... These engines guzzle oil!

ALF_A4

22-01-2010, 05:03 PM

I hadn't realised prior to this thread that any B7 2.0T's bar the DTM had more than the standard 197bhp. I have seen some really smart, late B7's with 2.0T motors that were de-chromed, and they look lovely in black or dark blue. Some of these were driven with serious attitude (especially a black one near where I worked in my last job that constantly tried to race my 156GTA and always failed dismally) - I wonder if they were SE's with the 217bhp...

My standard 197bhp 2.0T does a lot of miles (30-40k p.a.) and I make decent progress but it seems to use next to no oil - I check it every couple of weeks at least but probably only stick in a litre or so in the 20k miles between services, which is less than the high-revving V6's I'm used to...

I really like the DTM specials, I wish there was an Avant, which personally I'd prefer as FWD but with a Torsen LSD, which offers lighter weight and thus better economy/handling than Quattro for not much less traction. Call me old fashioned but Quattro is actually a bit too capable and that dulls the driving experience when really pressing on for me - though I could have done with it in the snow recently!