If you were buying your B7 3.0TDI again which box would you choose?

[Marc1]

As the title says really. Hindsight is a wonderful
thing so if you had your time again which box would you go for? Manual or tiptronic and why? Any horror stories with the tip?

Cheers guys

[cyrusK]

I would stick with an auto box.Torque characteristics of (most) diesels better suited to automatics

[Marc1]

Thanks mate, I think the tip is the right option too. Just interested to here from as many people as possible who have made the choice before. :biglaugh:

I've not heard anything bad about these boxes so far either...

[a8 tech]

Manual, need I say any more.

[toff]

Hi,

I've owned an auto A4 3.0 TDI and two manuals (A4 2.5 TDI & A4 1.9 TDI) all with Quattro.
Your question is not an easy one to answer! I agree that auto boxes suite the torque and power delivery characteristics of diesels, but how much this applies really depends on the power output of the engine!

Out of the four cylinder TDIs available in the A4 B7 range, I'd only consider getting an auto on the 2.0 TDI 170bhp. In my humble opinion, the 140bhp & lower engines are too under-powered for the auto box, especially when fully laden!
Both the 2.7 and 3.0 have plenty of umph to drive the auto box, no question there. As their lazy V6 configuration isn't as punchy low-down as their 4 cylinder cousins, the auto box suits them particularly well.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how you drive most of the time:
If you spend a lot of time in traffic, you drive sedately and are generally a laid back driver, then auto is undoubtedly the best choice. It's a phenomenal driver aide.
If you regularly drive enthusiastically and enjoy taking your car by the scruff of the neck - you need manual, no doubt.

Having driven all my TDI's across the Snake Pass (the mountain road that links Manchester to Sheffield across the Pennines) I can say that there's nothing worse than being at the mercy of an auto gearbox when you want to drive progressively through tight corners and bends!

Even in sport mode, an auto box often leaves you in the wrong rev range or gear to get the power down when you really need it! You cannot beat having control of the clutch, revs and gear if you are an enthusiastic driver.

Tiptronic is a real advancement over standard auto, but I think it's most effective in naturally aspirated large capacity petrol engines (where turbo lag isn't a factor). My personal opinion is that Tiptronic is wasted in most diesels.
Admittedly it is great for changing down a gear when going round a long sweeping bend, but isn't great in tight bends).

In retrospect, I'm pleased I had auto in my 3.0 TDI because I drive sedately most of the time. Occasionally the auto box frustrated me - I wanted to take advantage of that awesome 3.0 lump + Quattro (the auto box never really lets you do that!)

I am enjoying the manual box in my 1.9 TDI Quattro at the moment, it really suits the engine. When I eventually upgrade to a 2.7 TDI, I'm pretty sure I'll be going for auto again - it's all about the smoooooth ride :D

Hope that helps!

Al.

PS: The downside when buying a manual 3.0 TDI is: they have monstrous torque figures and they are more likely to have been abused (as opposed to the auto which is offered some protection by the torque-converter's max torque limit).

[Marc1]

Manual, need I say any more.


Haha, yes please do tell. Your advice is fairly priceless around here, so yeah please shed some more details :beerchug:

[Marc1]

Hi,

I've owned an auto A4 3.0 TDI and two manuals (A4 2.5 TDI & A4 1.9 TDI) all with Quattro.
Your question is not an easy one to answer! I agree that auto boxes suite the torque and power delivery characteristics of diesels, but how much this applies really depends on the power output of the engine!

Out of the four cylinder TDIs available in the A4 B7 range, I'd only consider getting an auto on the 2.0 TDI 170bhp. In my humble opinion, the 140bhp & lower engines are too under-powered for the auto box, especially when fully laden!
Both the 2.7 and 3.0 have plenty of umph to drive the auto box, no question there. As their lazy V6 configuration isn't as punchy low-down as their 4 cylinder cousins, the auto box suits them particularly well.

Ultimately, I think it comes down to how you drive most of the time:
If you spend a lot of time in traffic, you drive sedately and are generally a laid back driver, then auto is undoubtedly the best choice. It's a phenomenal driver aide.
If you regularly drive enthusiastically and enjoy taking your car by the scruff of the neck - you need manual, no doubt.

Having driven all my TDI's across the Snake Pass (the mountain road that links Manchester to Sheffield across the Pennines) I can say that there's nothing worse than being at the mercy of an auto gearbox when you want to drive progressively through tight corners and bends!

Even in sport mode, an auto box often leaves you in the wrong rev range or gear to get the power down when you really need it! You cannot beat having control of the clutch, revs and gear if you are an enthusiastic driver.

Tiptronic is a real advancement over standard auto, but I think it's most effective in naturally aspirated large capacity petrol engines (where turbo lag isn't a factor). My personal opinion is that Tiptronic is wasted in most diesels.
Admittedly it is great for changing down a gear when going round a long sweeping bend, but isn't great in tight bends).

In retrospect, I'm pleased I had auto in my 3.0 TDI because I drive sedately most of the time. Occasionally the auto box frustrated me - I wanted to take advantage of that awesome 3.0 lump + Quattro (the auto box never really lets you do that!)

I am enjoying the manual box in my 1.9 TDI Quattro at the moment, it really suits the engine. When I eventually upgrade to a 2.7 TDI, I'm pretty sure I'll be going for auto again - it's all about the smoooooth ride :D

Hope that helps!

Al.

PS: The downside when buying a manual 3.0 TDI is: they have monstrous torque figures and they are more likely to have been abused (as opposed to the auto which is offered some protection by the torque-converter's max torque limit).

Cheers Toff, some good info there. I'd forgotten you'd had one of these. I have two concerns with the tip box, 1 - It could still be a fairtly uninvolved drive, 2 - The box might not like the increase from 450NM torque to 550NM after a remap once I've got used to it stock.

That said, I thought the tip with paddle shift would be the best of both really and something I'd like to try (maybe I'm just thinking of DSG as an auto box that gives you more control I don't know). I think I'd enjoy the effortless drive of the auto when just chilling out but wanted the tip for the fun bits. Seems I may be wrong though with that one, I don't want to change down aproaching a corner only for the auto box to decide to change back up mid corner. :(

It's going to be difficult to test drive one in different situations so thought I ask the forum.

[toff]

1 - It could still be a fairly uninvolved drive, 2 - The box might not like the increase from 450NM torque to 550NM after a remap once I've got used to it stock.

I can confirm point number 1 - it is still a fairly uninvolved drive.. simply because it doesn't change quick enough when you really need it to!

On point 2: Don't worry, I took mine upto 550NM and it never missed a beat (besides - the torque converter protects the transmission to some extent).


That said, I thought the tip with paddle shift would be the best of both really and something I'd like to try (maybe I'm just thinking of DSG as an auto box that gives you more control I don't know). I think I'd enjoy the effortless drive of the auto when just chilling out but wanted the tip for the fun bits. Seems I may be wrong though with that one, I don't want to change down approaching a corner only for the auto box to decide to change back up mid corner. :(

The dual-clutch DSG would be awesome because there is no delay in up/downshifts .. but the standard single clutch tiptronic auto box found in the B7 isn't the best of both worlds. (I don't think you can get the DSG box on a B7 TDI ???)

I must admit, I'm not the most technical driver (so that could be a factor) but I don't feel entirely safe using it when braking hard, approaching a corner - there may only be a very short delay, but the time it takes to shift down can be very disconcerting when you're waiting to get back on the gas! (especially considering you may have traveled quite a few meters before the box finally shifts down!)

The tiptronic system is very clever, it waits until you've finished driving like a hooligan before returning to auto mode (it must monitor engine revs, steering angle etc etc..) So don't worry about it doing anything unexpectedly (like shifting up in a corner).
It's just the time it takes to shift down that bothers me. It's great for dropping a few cogs when overtaking on straight roads etc.. just not on twisty A-roads!

a8_tech clearly likes to spank his motor all over the place :D so manual is a no-brainer for him (we both have 1.9TDI Quattro manuals and they are a surprisingly rewarding drive!)

You just have to identify your driving style and base your choice on that. Like I said before, the 3.0 TDI lends itself to a lazy, smooth driving style but it would be monstrous fun as a manual Quattro!

Al.

[a8 tech]

The only Audi auto box if you can call it auto for me its the R8 R tronic.I prefer the manual gearbox for all other platforms where applicable due to reliability.
I would say the manual box is far more reliable and if you are going for the 3.0 tdi then yes the ZF box is a strong box and remap's seem to cause no issue but for me its a manual all the way.
Referring to dsg then its a great box for the driver but there are to may issues with the latest dsg and s tronic in tt,a3 and 8k platforms for me to recommend one of these although your choice is the B7.Guess the spare 3.0 turbo I have may well be needed for you and your mad remaps lol.


Don't always take what I say as gospel because by nature I'm worst case scenario tech.

[Marc1]

Haha cheers A8 Tech, I will bear all this in mind when it comes to the time. Will definately have to drive both too. Yes definately keep that turbo to one side ;) It's just a shame I couldn't bolt it on too, a 3.0TDI Twin Turbo would go like stink.

[20vcqdriver]

Wishing I had gone for Auto as lower 3 gear ratios are wrong when mated to the 3.0TDi 1st pointless, but 5th 6th about right. ALso wife struggles with the clutch on this A4 after being used to the shorter action of her old 96 A4 TDi. Auto would have been a better option for me.

[Road Rocket]

Well, I must either have an exceptional auto box or something because I also have travelled the Snake Pass many times and have yet to be thwarted by not being in the right gear - and I admit to being a 'rather quick' driver, especially coming out of those lovely tight bends. And at the traffic light grand prix I don't believe any manual would beat the auto, by the time you're messing about changing gears I'm gone.

I believe after a certain period the auto box computes and reacts to your driving style. I always drive in sport and usually drive quite quickly when safe to do so. If you drive sedately on a regular basis the box will adjust to that driving style so perhaps the gear changes won't be as slick.

If my wife 'borrows' the car for a lengthy drive I always ensure I change the setting to give a better response. (Hold the accelerator pedal down to the floor, insert ignition key and turn to its ultimate just before it starts the engine, DON'T start the engine. Release the accelerator pedal after three seconds but don't take out the key. After two minutes remove ignition key.) This resets the setting and gives a more instant response when acceleratingl. I got this tip from another thread somewhere on this site - and it works!

(Remapped A4 3.0TDI)

[toff]

Well, I must either have an exceptional auto box or something because I also have travelled the Snake Pass many times and have yet to be thwarted by not being in the right gear - and I admit to being a 'rather quick' driver, especially coming out of those lovely tight bends. And at the traffic light grand prix I don't believe any manual would beat the auto, by the time you're messing about changing gears I'm gone.

I believe after a certain period the auto box computes and reacts to your driving style. I always drive in sport and usually drive quite quickly when safe to do so. If you drive sedately on a regular basis the box will adjust to that driving style so perhaps the gear changes won't be as slick.

If my wife 'borrows' the car for a lengthy drive I always ensure I change the setting to give a better response. (Hold the accelerator pedal down to the floor, insert ignition key and turn to its ultimate just before it starts the engine, DON'T start the engine. Release the accelerator pedal after three seconds but don't take out the key. After two minutes remove ignition key.) This resets the setting and gives a more instant response when acceleratingl. I got this tip from another thread somewhere on this site - and it works!

(Remapped A4 3.0TDI)

Some good hints there RoadRocket.

I have to say, having reverted to a manual for the last 7 months due to lack of funds (I dont believe an auto should be coupled to a 1.9!)...

I would now always go for a manual over an auto box... much prefer the control. I must admit; I don't spend much time sat in traffic though!

Al.

[20vcqdriver]

I'd prefer the manual if the ratios matched the car better. Checked against my old '96 90bhp A4 TDI yesterday and the first 4 gears are identical, which is nuts when you have twice the torque and spoils the driving as 1st runs out almost instantly.

[Rusk]

I have the 2.0TDI 140 so I know it's completely different but this is the first auto I have owned. It is the multitronic and I find it amazing!

I always thought I would stay pure and only have manuals but now I have had this I think I am hooked for life :p

Multitronic is very different from standard auto so not sure how they drive but the multi seems to react to what I want very well.

I use the M4 ever day so sitting in traffic is a given and it is great for that and when I want to have fun (safely of course...) on an A road then sport mode in the multi always keeps the revs at the right level to instantly respond to any foot twitch.

I have heard horror stories about the multitronic box and it seems to be down to which day of the week it was put together but mine so far after 18months of running it has been perfect. Although my warrenty is coming to an end soon so the fear might set in lol.