Engine strip down dilema - Can anyone help?

[TDi_B5]

Right, I'll try and keep this brief. I've got a 97 Passat TDI Sport 110 (AFN) 187k, FSH, never once let me down. Had the cambelt and waterpump done in October 08 and since then the engine sounds horrible, ticking/clicking, but no change in performance. Its been back twice to the garage that did it, they firstly said it was fine and then said it could be the tappets.
Took it to my VW dealer in Southampton this morning and the technician said it sounds like something is loose within the engine, he said it was a mechanical noise and not to do with timing or the ignition. Anyone got any ideas what could be loose? He said the only way of finding out is to start stripping the engine down. As you can imagine, this would cost hundreds of pounds.

Is there anyone about in the Hampshire area (I'm willing to travel further) that could take a look, recommend a plan of action or that would be happy to start stripping down the engine? I am willing to pay, I don't want to be spending loads of her but I'm planning a trip across Europe in the next few weeks and desperatley need this sorted. :zx11:

[Crasher]

Could be that it is diesel knock from the pump and/or valve timing being incorrect or it could be cam follower and cam lobe failure which can happen on the non PD TDI’s occasionally. The only way to start checking for this is to pull the cam cover off and inspect what you can see but this can often be inconclusive and the only accurate way to tell is to pull the cam and if they are OK, keep going (head off) until you find the problem. If it is cam follower failure and it is caught early, you will just need a new cam and lifters, leave it too long and the tappet bore of the failed follower will be damaged and that means a new head and a Passat like that it will be more than the car is worth.

[TDi_B5]

Just removed the camcover and taken some pictures of the tappets, theres also a video here of the engine running but there is too much background noise to really here the ticking noise.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/37148675@N05/sets/72157616862848898/

[Crasher]

They all look OK but as I said, it is difficult to say without the cam being out.

[snapdragon]

Some of the cam lobes look blued like they got too hot (PICT4597), is this normal?

[Crasher]

Those radial lines around the lobes are odd, could indicate lifter failure.

[TDi_B5]

I'll mention the above when I get the car looked at. If it is cam and/or follower failure, will they both have to be replaced? Should you replace them together or could you do one without the other? Obviously a new camshaft and lifters are not going to be cheap, what are my options for this, do they have to be brand new or could I get second hand parts?

P.S. how/why does this sort of failure occur? This car has wanted for nothing, certainly regarding engine oil and filter changes...?

[Crasher]

New (or very good used) cam and new followers.

Cam 028 109 101 F £225 from VW, followers 034 109 309 AD £23 each from VW but both these are available elsewhere such as from Febi for much less. If you are interested and need them, I can get you a price for Febi items as I am a Febi dealer.

It happens due to a loss of lubrication from poor quality oil or extended oil changes. Even in these engines, I run PD suitable oil as it helps prevent this.

[dave_1]

Hi
It dose look odd that all the cam lobs have the lines on them.
Oil feed problem to head or poor oil?

Dave

[TDi_B5]

Crasher, could you quote me for a febi cam and followers please. If I were to get a very good used cam, would it have to be from an AFN engine like mine or are they the same for all engine codes? I take it second hand followers are not worth it?

[martin1810]

Are you sure the injection timing is correct. On this engine the timing should be checked after belt replacement. Is it possible that the car felt better but was noisier with the new belt.

[Crasher]

Used cam followers would be utterly stupid. Prod me on Monday to remind me about the pricing. Most VEP TDI cams are the same.

[dave_1]

Hi
Stick with a new or very good used cam but a used one needs to be very very good and the right one.
The followers would be better new.
I am sure Crusher will give you the part numbers etc.

Dave

[TDi_B5]

Another update, I took the car to another garage today and had 3 people listen to the engine and after talking over the issue and how it arose (also with a vw specialist) they suggested that the noise is a valve coming into contact with a piston, only slightly, a mere kiss, but enough to make the noise. The guy from VW said that there is a known issue with this engine in which wear occurs in the crank sprocket key ways which can cause pulleys to move on tightening and therefore cause valve timing to move.

I have called the vw specialist in southampton who did the cambelt change and have booked it in this friday to get them to sort it out, i.e check the valve timing. After driving around with this issue for 9 months and trying desperately to get it sorted I dread to think what damage may have occured.

[martin1810]

That's very strange because VW recommend that the timing is checked after belt replacement on this engine.

[dave_1]

Hi
Keep us in the loop as to what they find.

Dave

[TDi_B5]

Car is finally sorted! After my third trip back to the garage 9 months on, and my insistence that the noise was caused by the cambelt change, they took the belt off, timed the engine up again and would you believe it....the noise went. So, they incorrectly timed it in the first place. Pretty poor that they were unable to diagnose such a simple issue on two previous occasions really. Won't be going there again...

[dave_1]

Hi
So i was right then it was valve timing at fault.

Glad its sorted

Dave

[Crasher]

Yes but I said it first :D

[dave_1]

Hi Crusher
On here you did but i said it first some where else!
So we where both right!

Dave

[Crasher]

Somewhere else doesn’t count…:biglaugh:

[MonmouthMarine]

interesting thread :)