G052 911 A2 / 3H gearbox oil 170,000 mile change to fix crunch

[passat938]

Hi guys,

got my 170,000 mile old "lifetime" gearbox oil drained today and replaced with the exact spec as reccomended by VW dealers.

Many VW dealers refused to do this job saying it isn't needed the gearbox oil lasts forever. Several quoted me 2 hours labour. Found a local Audi specialist who did it in an hours labour :)

Going from 1st to 2nd gear my gear stick would crunch in like no gear was in place, 2nd to 3rd would be sticky trying to engage 3rd and 4th to 3rd gave me trouble getting 3rd gear in. (all of this is made worse when its cold outside and the car has been sat overnight)

After reading through many threads on here I settled on the G52 911 A2 as reccomended by VW for my 2001 1.9 130 PD 6 speed manual.

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/65dd7c63.jpg

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/7bce2abf.jpg



VERY thin, runny and light like a hot honey

http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/6f9d316a.jpg


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/43dd85e4.jpg


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/3306c32d.jpg


Now the original stuff came out a dark gloop and started to seperate when left to settle for more than a minute


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/63001c19.jpg


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/92308630.jpg


http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/5763c1cf.jpg



http://i469.photobucket.com/albums/rr57/coilercat77/aba8ecda.jpg




Not had chance for a proper road test yet, but will be out over the weekend to see if its made any difference.

If its worth it I may be able to get a lab test on the old stuff done, to see how "lifetime" this stuff really is?

[cazyp]

I'd be interested in how the box feels now.

[passing]

if you can run it in a tube slowly past a magnet and see what debris if any it collects.

The brown colour would I think indicate it has got hot at sometime.

Ian

[FLENG2008]

I'd be interested in how the box feels now.

same here, whats it like now??

[martin1810]

The selector forks and syncro rings are made of a brass type metal which can turn oil darker if ground up fine enough. This sort of wear is common when someone rests their hand on the gearstick.

[passat938]

Evening,

I'm going to try and find a large speaker magnet to see how much sheered metal is in it :D

Been for a drive out tonight and theres definetely an improvement.

Dropping into 2nd gear is now smooth and positive (if I do it very fast there is a slight notchy feeling, but nothing like before where it sounded like I was chipping gear syncros on long grinds no matter how slow I shifted)

2nd to 3rd works everytime and a minimal knock.

4th to 3rd so far has worked everytime :approve:

VW don't state the viscosity of their new G052, but it seems very thin, my shifts used to be worse when cold and when the oil warmed up and thinned became better. This new stuff is thin from the outset so could that be the solution?

Either way a new gear box is £2000, a refurb £500, or a rebuild £600. A refurb doesn't even gaurentee other syncro's/gears won't play up.

So for less than £100 it seems a good mod.

[the surfer]

How did you know the correct spec oil to use? I was under the impression that the spec for the later 6 speed boxes is G052 171 A1/2.

I had the synchros replaced by VW in my 35k box to cure the same problems you've been experiencing. This didn't cure the issue, unfortunately. At least now I know it's not the synchros at fault. I still think it's down to oil viscosity as when the engine/gearbox is up to temp I can get smooth changes in all gears.

[scotty33]

How did you know the correct spec oil to use? I was under the impression that the spec for the later 6 speed boxes is G052 171 A1/2.

I had the synchros replaced by VW in my 35k box to cure the same problems you've been experiencing. This didn't cure the issue, unfortunately. At least now I know it's not the synchros at fault. I still think it's down to oil viscosity as when the engine/gearbox is up to temp I can get smooth changes in all gears.

Hi

I know the 6 speed in a passat is an 01E family gearbox. The golf 02(?) series 6 speed has a different oil spec.

[the surfer]

Hi

I know the 6 speed in a passat is an 01E family gearbox. The golf 02(?) series 6 speed has a different oil spec.

Ah that could be why then. Thanks for the reply.

The box in my Golf is an 02Q.

It doesn't seem logical to me how VW can have two different specs for gearbox oil on what is, fundamentally, the same 6-speed gearbox. Or am I wrong, does it vary to some extent?

Also I read (unsure of credibility of source) that the A1/2 refers to whether the oil is synthetic or mineral; where A1 is synth and A2 is min.

[scotty33]

Hi

the golf 6 speed gearbox (No.5)

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/scotty33_bucket/GolfGearboxes.jpg

Is very different from the passat 6 speed (no.2)

http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg104/scotty33_bucket/passatB5gearboxes.jpg

And a very longwinded thread about VW and aftermarket transmission oils:

http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=132884&page=9

[the surfer]

Scotty - thanks for the info ;)

The thread over at tdiclub.com is something I've read through before. It's quite interesting but it seems whatever oil I've used in my gearbox I still get poor shifting in anything but warm (20 deg C +) weather. I'm almost 100% certain that the VW dealer would have used the correct spec oil when they rebuilt the gearbox.

It's one of two things:

1. My gearbox, or something that serves in an ancillary capacity (clutch, flywheel, linkage, etc.), is broke. Exactly what it is though.... not a clue! Although, I do know that my synchros should be in top working order as they were replaced 1k ago by VW.

2. It's a quirk of the manual 6-speed box, as reported from many VAG sources.

Either way, I need to either find the underlying problem and get it fixed, or if there is nothing found, just live with it....

The thing I'm most concerned about is long-term damage and longevity.

[dirtyderv]

I have the 6 speed in my bora, I know they arent the same but mine is abit crunchy first to second until warmed up too. Recent oil change helped alot.

Another thing you might want to try is resetting the linkage, or getting it inspected to see of the joints are worn. Not hard to reset yourself, ill try and find a guide for it.

[scotty33]

Also I read (unsure of credibility of source) that the A1/2 refers to whether the oil is synthetic or mineral; where A1 is synth and A2 is min.

I'm fairly sure A1/A2 refers to the quantity in the bottle i.e 0.5 or 1 litre. seems unlikely a mineral oil would meet the same spec as a synthetic?

[passat 130 tdi]

Evening,

I'm going to try and find a large speaker magnet to see how much sheered metal is in it :D

Been for a drive out tonight and theres definetely an improvement.

Dropping into 2nd gear is now smooth and positive (if I do it very fast there is a slight notchy feeling, but nothing like before where it sounded like I was chipping gear syncros on long grinds no matter how slow I shifted)

2nd to 3rd works everytime and a minimal knock.

4th to 3rd so far has worked everytime :approve:

VW don't state the viscosity of their new G052, but it seems very thin, my shifts used to be worse when cold and when the oil warmed up and thinned became better. This new stuff is thin from the outset so could that be the solution?

Either way a new gear box is £2000, a refurb £500, or a rebuild £600. A refurb doesn't even gaurentee other syncro's/gears won't play up.

So for less than £100 it seems a good mod.

any idea of the mileage when the gearbox started to play up ?

[scotty33]

Evening,

I'm going to try and find a large speaker magnet to see how much sheered metal is in it :D

Been for a drive out tonight and theres definetely an improvement.

Dropping into 2nd gear is now smooth and positive (if I do it very fast there is a slight notchy feeling, but nothing like before where it sounded like I was chipping gear syncros on long grinds no matter how slow I shifted)

2nd to 3rd works everytime and a minimal knock.

4th to 3rd so far has worked everytime :approve:

VW don't state the viscosity of their new G052, but it seems very thin, my shifts used to be worse when cold and when the oil warmed up and thinned became better. This new stuff is thin from the outset so could that be the solution?

Either way a new gear box is £2000, a refurb £500, or a rebuild £600. A refurb doesn't even gaurentee other syncro's/gears won't play up.

So for less than £100 it seems a good mod.

VW no longer quote the spec of their oils, I'm under the impression they are supplied by Fuchs lubricants.

to summarise, 01 series transmissions use 75w - 80 grade and 02 series transmissions use 75w grade. The sintofluid gear oils meet the spec of the various VW part numbers for each type of transmission.

Fuch's Titan Sintofluid 75w-80 which is equivalent to VAG

G 052 171 A1/A2 A1 A2 being 0.5 litre or 1 litre I think.
G 052 911 A1/A2

Vagcat says I should be using

G 052 911 A2 suitable for Passat type 01 series transmissions



Sintofluid 75w meets

G 052 512
G 052 178
G 055 726 Suitable for golf type 02 series transmissions

Seems it also suits applications where G070 726 is called for:

http://www.fuchs-europe.de/gear-oils-cars.html

Both Sintofluids are Fully Synthetic Oils

From the Horses Mouth

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/FUCHS...D%2075W-80.pdf (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/FUCHS%20-%20TDS/TITAN%20SINTOFLUID%2075W-80.pdf)

http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/FUCHS...20FE%2075W.pdf (http://www.opieoils.co.uk/pdfs/FUCHS%20-%20TDS/TITAN%20SINTOFLUID%20FE%2075W.pdf)

:beerchug: