Cam Belt fitted on Time rather than Mileage

[black999]

Thought I would share this information that came to light yesterday.

I own a 54 plate 2.0 GT TDI Golf Mk5 which is now 4 years old.

I found out a couple of weeks ago that VW recommend that the cam belt be changed @80,000 miles or 4 years.

Not wanting to be hit with a large bill for an engine re-build, I arranged for the job to be done.

When I picked up the car after the work had been completed I was shown the "old" belt and to be honest, there wasn't a sign of any degradation or wear.

Makes me think this is a way of VW getting even more money from the lowly motorist.


Anyone else had any similar experiences ??

[zollaf]

like you said ,you didnt want to be hit with a large repair bill, and now you wont be. a cambelt is under immense pressure/stress,and do degrade with time.I have rebuilt engines where the cambelt hasnt been changed for years but the vehicle hasnt done the mileage to warrant it, but the cambelt still broke .it depends a lot on the type of driving. stop start city driving puts more stress on this vital component than motorway driving, and in an ideal world we would change every cambelt just before it broke, thus getting maximum life out of it. in reality this is impossible, so we have to follow manufactures guidelines. I am sure that your old cambelt did show signs of degredation. did you turn it inside out and bend it & examine each & every tooth ? it only takes one split under a tooth to cause a failure.

[black999]

I appreciate your comments but I forgot to mention mileage.

My vehicle has only done 34,000 miles in the last 4 years which is less than half the recommended mileage if the car had been <4 years old.

Believe me , the belt that was removed didn't have a mark on it.

Like I said , I wasn't prepared to take a risk but as far as I'm concerned , this is a bit of a learning experience.

Even the mechanic that did the work said he didn't consider it had been necessary. But never mind , what's done is done :)

[KeithS]

I've had a cambelt go in the past (on a 205 GTI many years back) and it was not only very expensive to have the engine rebuilt but it never ran quite the same again and I quickly sold it after.

Cambelts IMHO are definitely not worth skimping on.

[kite]

Cambelt is one of the hardest working parts of an engine.
For every revolution the engine does the cambelt does two.
perhaps engines should go back to using noisy chains or gears.

[zollaf]

most cambelts also just turn a camshaft or two, and maybe a water pump or injection pump. in the pd engine it also has to work those 4 injectors, creating 20,000 psi of pressure. thats why its twice as wide as most ordinary belts. a chain driven cam engine is more costly to produce than a belt driven one. chains also dont last forever, but usually make a lot of noise before breaking. theres pros & cons to both systems. personally i prefer belts. quieter running and easier to change,and just as reliable as long as you change it following manufacturers recommendation to the letter. i.e. mileage/ time limits, tension settings and torque settings.

[dod1e]

For every revolution the engine does the cambelt does two.


This is completely wrong, the cams actually rotate at half the engine speed, and the belt as a whole rotates a lot slower than that, but I agree with the message that the belt is one of the most strained components of the engine.

[zollaf]

its also the only servicable item on a car that can fail and destroy your engine, in one easy snap. with repair bills to rebuild afterwards being a minimum of £1000, is it worth not changing one? you could argue that after 4 years and 34k you could get another year out of it, and indeed you probably would, but if it did go, what then?

[MalcQV]

It is all about risk. I think you did the right thing myself ;) Money well spent.

[mk5owner]

Latest Advice From Vw Milton Keynes Is Change Cambelt Every 4 Years Or 40k. Not Long Is It? Seemingly They Have Had Premature Failures According To Honest John Website


thought I Would Share This Information That Came To Light Yesterday.

I Own A 54 Plate 2.0 Gt Tdi Golf Mk5 Which Is Now 4 Years Old.

I Found Out A Couple Of Weeks Ago That Vw Recommend That The Cam Belt Be Changed @80,000 Miles Or 4 Years.

Not Wanting To Be Hit With A Large Bill For An Engine Re-build, I Arranged For The Job To Be Done.

When I Picked Up The Car After The Work Had Been Completed I Was Shown The "old" Belt And To Be Honest, There Wasn't A Sign Of Any Degradation Or Wear.

Makes Me Think This Is A Way Of Vw Getting Even More Money From The Lowly Motorist.


Anyone Else Had Any Similar Experiences ??

[adamss24]

Many new cambelts fail soon after fitting as they are incorectly torqued or its just the cambelt thats replaced most of the time ! On modern vw, the oil pump and water pump are also driven by the cambelt and every pulley/tensioner wich has a bearing inside is a potential failure... Cambelts are much much cheaper to replace than a chain and the belts dont stretch but the chain will if impropper oil grade was used. The difference is the belt will break in silence but the chain will get noisy. Also, due to the way the engines are built, a chain will cost a lot of money to replace as oposed to the belt wich can by done even by a DIY mechanic with a set of decent tools ! I reckon 34k is a bit low and i would replace a belt at aprox. 60k or 5 years, wichever comes first...Rubber perishes with age and there were faulty dry bearings fitted on a few batches of Littens tensioners (canadian OEM supplyier) wich failed early...

[bw10030]

It's about engine design- back in the 80's I had a Mitsubishi Lancer which had a belt and no service life, when it failed (at 70,000 miles), no damage was done - on that engine it is impossible for the pistons to hit the valves, which is what happens on todays cars. However, the bl**dy thing failed over Christmas, which was a complete pain as far as getting new bits was concerned!

The problem is the belt is rubber and this ages with heat and time. If you looked at the belt, you would see hairline cracks in the corners where the teeth protrude from the belt. These grow until the teeth fall off, and then the pulleys cannot turn the belt, next thing (and without warning!) is a catstrophic failure and a big bill! I think a 'snapped' belt would be rather rare, so we are talking very minor degradation here.

My GT TDI is due a belt in May at 4 years (it will have done about 65K by then), and I don't intend to delay it!

Anyone any idea of dealer prices for this, and is it worth changing anything else in the area (water pump?) at the same time?

[mk5owner]

Juts had a quote for both at £550 from a VW franchise and thats supposed to be with a discount hoho. £360 from a VW /Audi orientated workshop not a VAG franchise, not cheap but you need it

[mlance]

After reading the horror stories on here I've just booked my 54 plate 2.0tdi into an independent for the belt change and water pump replaced.

For information they are charging £380 all in, if I remember the franchised dealer wanted £500!

I've done just shy of 50k and the car is 4yrs 3mths old. It's not worth the risk in my opinion even though it is a lot of money. However it's the first car I've heard of apart from Alfa 147's that need the belt doing so early on.

[naz5]

hi guys,
after reading up on these cambelt stories, here and elsewere, i decided it was time for me to change mine, i have a 2004 1.6 fsi with 56k going on to the 57000 mark, i was so convinced that my car had a cambelt/timing belt, iv even read up on so many places that a mk5 fsi 1.6 2004's have a belt, even my mates car has a belt, so i i called up the dealers today to arrange it, they took ma details and called me back to say that mine has a chain and not a belt, that seems odd? dealers make mistakes right? i told them i was sure its a belt and they said different cars, are differentcomponents, i jus wana be sure as iv heard a lot of people saying the dealers dont like to get involved once somthing goes wrong, they just wass their hands on you, anything good, they'l be the first to jump up and declere that it was there doing, but sothing goes wrong and its never there fault.

is it just me or could that be, please guys need sum feedback,

Thanks

[Frenchman]

Have a look at this thread http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=59498

This is my daughters Polo which has only done 36k but is a year 2000. Just goes to show the old German build quality isn't quite what we think it is sometimes. Worth changing if in ANY doubt.

Frenchman

[Mav2006]

my dealer just told me that my 1.6 fsi doesn't have a belt but chain - is this correct?

[2ndV5Man]

I know I probably don't know what I'm talking about but I now have a 1.4Tsi which will need its belt changing in a couple of years (I also only do 5000 miles a year) but my last 2 cars have been mk4 V5's. They both had chains not belts that did not need changing, they were not noisy at all so why do cars now have belts which deteriorate with time?

[B8 TDI]

The life expectancy of the rubber used in the belts is 5 years, now you could have waited another year to change it, but waiting till the belt is likely to fail before changing it as apposed to changing the belt well before it is expected to fail makes little sense.

[chat]

I owned a Citroen Xantia 2.0 16v once and the cambelt snapped on the motorway bending numerous valves and of course requiring the car to be towed to a garage. It cost £1000 to have the head rebuilt and I was without the car for weeks. More recently, I owned a Daewoo Leganza which was 5 years old, but low mileage. I took it to my local garage and requested a cam belt change. because of the cars age.The garage owner, who is a very experienced chap advised that it was probably uneccessary, but I insisted. This was just as well as when he showed me the old belt, it was starting to split. My current car, a 2004 A6 1.9 TDI Sport with 50k on the clock is going in for a new belt etc nex tweek (£329 at Audi Liverpool)

You probably can take a chance and delay replacing a belt if you have a low mileage car and drive it gently, especially an auto, but its really not worth the risk. I have learned that lesson the hard way!

[TDI Chris]

Is it the same for the 1.9 tdi?

I've only just bought mine but it is just over 4 years old with 40000 miles.

I also have a 1.6 Ford focus and the cambelt change is not due for 10 years or 100000 miles. I must admit I am a bit surprised that the golf would need doing so soon.

[macmillions]

100000 miles!? That is ludicrous. I would get it done at 50k/5yrs, or sooner. leaving it that long is leaving a ticking time bomb for sure.

[TDI Chris]

My focus is coming up to 6 years old and 70000 miles. I did call my local garage a few weeks ago to ask about the cambelt and they told me it wasn't due. Also, I have heard that a replacement belt is never as good as the original and one guy I know had his replacement fail after only a cople of thousand miles. I will have it done at the next service anyway as the quote was only around £200, can't remember exactly.

My wife really wanted a VW which is why we bought the golf. It cost quite a bit more than a Ford/Vauxhall of similar age and mileage. I like the quality but can't help feeling that it is going to be much more costly to run as well.

[Ex-Alfa]

Why is there no mention of 4yrs in either my Service Schedule handbook which says 80000 miles or Elsawin ( http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/177354.aspx post 4) which for my engine says 150000 km ???

[MalcQV]

Belts are quieter (as a rule) than chains. Chains can and do stretch but last longer than belts, however it is fair to say usually cost more to replace.

Manufacturers are do review timing belt changes, as technology changes.
The thing that is forgotten is not so much the belt but the tensioner and bearings for the belt. Please follow manufacturers recommended intervals.

[peteo]

Why is there no mention of 4yrs in either my Service Schedule handbook which says 80000 miles or Elsawin ( http://uk-mkivs.net/forums/t/177354.aspx post 4) which for my engine says 150000 km ???

Yes, I've read, and reread, my service manual and can find no mention whatsoever of 4 years. My car has done 26,500 and comes up to its 4th birthday next month.

I'm not inclined to let it run too long. Given my annual mileage, it will be yonks before I get anywhere near 80,000.

I was thinking I might get it done at 6 years by which time the car will have done about 38,000.

Am I taking a risk here? Not according to my service manual I'm not. Where does this 4 year thing come from?

[Ex-Alfa]

There's an interesting thread on honestjohn that suggests VAG UK are 'at it' on this :-

http://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=68965

at the moment I'm going to leave mine until 80k regardless of elapsed time but would be interested to know if there's any definitive evidence on whether or not this is a good idea.

Jeez - I thought I'd left all this behind when I ditched the Alfa, one of the reasons I bought a Golf.

[peteo]

I have thought for a long time that VW are "at it" as you say Ex Alfa. I have posted on other threads about the service intervals. My car had been set, by the previous owner, on long life which meant that the vehicle only went near a VW workshop every two years. The sharks who sold me my car told me they had set it to time and distance. They have obviously not put the long life oil in either.

I keep banging on about this but I will have 4 oil changes to the "long life" owner's one. This can't be right, this can't be justified.

The cambelt change is evidently another scam. I am no engineer but given the lower revs of a diesel engine, it should last longer than a petrol anyway.

One of the Honest John posts was interesting. He talked about the "love" factor. The fleet buyer has long gone after 4 years. He will have had the car serviced twice at the most and certainly no cam belt change.

This is all about VW dealers making up from the private motorist what they lose on the fleet buyer. Nothing they say hangs together logically. Yes the short stop start motorist probably should have more oil changes, twice as many perhaps but 4 times as many is taking the proverbial.

I've got a VAG used car warrany on this car and will get the service done. Sods law might apply otherwise. I am going to go on mileage only thereafter and will ask them to put long life oil in next change.

Sorry to go on about this but I think we are being ripped off. My brother's Merc had it's first service six months, yes six months after the first MOT. The dealers have told him that they don't expect to see him for another 3 years.

[MalcQV]

I understand where you guys are coming from. I know you are going to get the service/cam belts done and you should. I do not think it is worth taking the chance personally.

Remember we always have a choice, you can choose not to buy VAG next time around and if everyone did that then they would have to do something. Somehow I doubt that will happen, why? Good cars on the whole I think ;)

Ferrari I believe say change the cambelts every two years if the car is older than 1992 and every three after that date. No you would not take the chance not at all :p

[Eshrules]

I have thought for a long time that VW are "at it" as you say Ex Alfa. I have posted on other threads about the service intervals. My car had been set, by the previous owner, on long life which meant that the vehicle only went near a VW workshop every two years. The sharks who sold me my car told me they had set it to time and distance. They have obviously not put the long life oil in either.

I keep banging on about this but I will have 4 oil changes to the "long life" owner's one. This can't be right, this can't be justified.

First of all, let's ask you this... do you think it's right that a car should not be looked at, checked or even serviced for 2 years or 20k?

secondly, the 'sharks' you refer to, did you a favour, Longlife is not suitable for many people. The reason most business/lease companies elect for the longlife, is quite simply down to economics and in the first 2/3 years of running, the car is (genearlly) unlikely to require much work/maintenance.

Once a vehicle approaches 5/6 years of age, leaving it go 2 years without an oil change is (imho) asking for trouble. And FYI, there is actually very little price difference in the long life/fixed interval oil.

If done correctly, fixed interval is 12 months/10k. Anything less, is down to user prefernce, I elect to service every 6 months or 6k, whichever comes first, mainly as I do a lot of town work and I like to look after my turbo.

The price of a turbo, with fitment and any ancilleries is approx £8/900?


The cambelt change is evidently another scam. I am no engineer but given the lower revs of a diesel engine, it should last longer than a petrol anyway.

you may understand that wear is not directly attributed to the running of the belt, but external factors, such as heat, moisture and any other elements nature throws at it. Belts are rubber, rubber wears. When rubber wears, it becomes weakened and liable to breakage.


One of the Honest John posts was interesting. He talked about the "love" factor. The fleet buyer has long gone after 4 years. He will have had the car serviced twice at the most and certainly no cam belt change.

That person, therefore, is taking a risk. Have you ever had a timing belt fail? I have. Around £800 lighter, a lot of work later I had a car running again. A timing belt change costs approx £250 with labour, a new cylinder head with fitting would cost in the region of £1500?


This is all about VW dealers making up from the private motorist what they lose on the fleet buyer. Nothing they say hangs together logically. Yes the short stop start motorist probably should have more oil changes, twice as many perhaps but 4 times as many is taking the proverbial.

On what basis are you making these claims? 20,000 miles on a motorway, with little gear changing or labouring of the engine, 6/8k around town, with constant engine changes, the oil change intervals seem entirely fair and logical to me (and, in fact, most of the VAG community).


I've got a VAG used car warrany on this car and will get the service done. Sods law might apply otherwise. I am going to go on mileage only thereafter and will ask them to put long life oil in next change.

For any vehicle warranty, the vehicle must be maintained in accordance with manufacturer guidlines, this means you must adhere to the latest service release. Owners manuals and service guides are released with the vehicle. The golf mk4, for example, has been on the market for approx 11 years, there have been numerous updates since.


Sorry to go on about this but I think we are being ripped off. My brother's Merc had it's first service six months, yes six months after the first MOT. The dealers have told him that they don't expect to see him for another 3 years.

Define 'we'. I feel completely happy maintaining my vehicle as I do, it in return, provides faultless service, constant smiles and the love that owning a VAG vehicle brings

Your brother drives a Mercedes, a totally different car, manufactured by a totally different company. Perhaps you would be happier in a Mercedes?

[Sam]

That person, therefore, is taking a risk. Have you ever had a timing belt fail? I have. Around £800 lighter, a lot of work later I had a car running again. A timing belt change costs approx £250 with labour, a new cylinder head with fitting would cost in the region of £1500?

This little piece is the best advice.

It comes down to one choice;

Pay £350 for a new water pump, new belts, full service every 4 years/40k miles

or

Pay up to £2k (the cost of a refurb engine) when your belt snaps.

Don't believe they snap? Have a search of a few forums for tales of woe. They go as early as 35k but there are of course the odd few who have 100k+ on them, they're the lucky ones.

If you really think VAG UK are "at it" and this is one big scam to make money, go to a VW Indy and ask them for their opinion.

[Ex-Alfa]

The clincher for me on the cambelt thing is that (if the bloke on honestjohn is correct) it only seems to be VAG UK who say 4yrs/40 or 60k (or whatever they're saying at the moment) and no other territories. Do they fit sub-standard parts to UK bound cars ?

[Sam]

VWoA (North America) recommended a change (for the Passat) at 105k miles with "visual inspections" at 40k & 80k (I forget if there's any mention of time though)

The early Passats had premature faults in the tensions meaing the belts were snapping at anything from 35k and up. Despite being covered by the warranty VWoA didn't honour it and chose to make only courtesy offers towards repairs.

They (VWoA) continue to recommend 105k (again, not sure on the time aspect) but most owners choose to change the belts at the 60/70k or 4 year mark to be on the safe side.

With the Passat, the major issue was (and is) the water pump and its plastic impellers. Once one of those goes, you're FUBARd.

[Eshrules]

The clincher for me on the cambelt thing is that (if the bloke on honestjohn is correct) it only seems to be VAG UK who say 4yrs/40 or 60k (or whatever they're saying at the moment) and no other territories. Do they fit sub-standard parts to UK bound cars ?

You've not owned a Fiat I take it? The brava/o, marea and many other cars in the Fiat range had their intervals reduced from 72,000/5 years, to 36,000 or 3 years, why? Because of the number of warranty claims for failed belts.

[Ex-Alfa]

I've not slated anybody - my posts are full of qualifiers.

Have you got a link providing evidence that other countries' VW importers have reduced the interval to 4yrs/40k ?

Never owned a Fiat but as I already said this cambelt business (which cost the thick end of £700 to replace on my Alfa 156 2.5V6) was one of the reasons I decide to jump ship and buy a VW.


Edit: My first sentence now looks odd. It was in response to the previous poster who (IIRC) suggested I do some research before slating people. That comment has since been removed.

[peteo]

There does seem to be an impressive degree of loyalty to the VW brand on these forums - as it should be I suppose but should that loyalty extend to taking at face value everything that the company puts out?

At the end of the day, as a private company, VW are here to make a living/profit. It is at least possible that they would seek to maximise income from the punter.

And there appears to be a discrepancy between my service manual, advice by some on these forums about the 4 years, and what is advised by dealerships overseas.

I think I will take advice from a VW independent as suggested above.

I will say this. A company that has so little faith in its engineering that it recommends a cambelt change after a mere 26,000 miles needs to take a long hard look at it's quality control. Are they seriously arguing that the engineering integrity of their cars is so suspect, that an engine failure is likely/probable after a mere 4 years?

[Eshrules]

There does seem to be an impressive degree of loyalty to the VW brand on these forums - as it should be I suppose but should that loyalty extend to taking at face value everything that the company puts out?

I'm one of the first people to say VAG cars are not as reliable as some would argue. They're known for their common faults, but where other firms lack in build quality and driving experience, VAG pick up the slack.


At the end of the day, as a private company, VW are here to make a living/profit. It is at least possible that they would seek to maximise income from the punter.

As is every other company in existence, including the independent you're going to consult.


And there appears to be a discrepancy between my service manual, advice by some on these forums about the 4 years, and what is advised by dealerships overseas.

As my (rather lengthy) post explained above, the service manual you're referring to is now 9 years old. Do you not think it's a little out of date?

Forums advise based on experiences, failures, known faults etc etc. There are many things a dealer would disagree with a forum over, servicing included.

As for the dealership overseas, we're in the UK, we're perhaps one of the worst weather countries that vehicles are sold in, UK VAG issue their advice, taking these factors into account.


I think I will take advice from a VW independent as suggested above.

That's exactly what I would do.


I will say this. A company that has so little faith in its engineering that it recommends a cambelt change after a mere 26,000 miles needs to take a long hard look at it's quality control. Are they seriously arguing that the engineering integrity of their cars is so suspect, that an engine failure is likely/probable after a mere 4 years?

Did you read my post at all? Do you understand how a rubber belt's integrity can be comprimised by constant heating and cooling, dampness and external natural factors?

Would you rather they recommend 5 years and 100,000, risking countless engine failures as a result? Timing belt changes are pro-active maintenance, preventative if you will.

VAG are not saying, their engines are prone to failure, but a timing belt after 4 years is probable to do so.

timing belt change - £250
new engine - ££££

I think, in all honesty, without intending to insult, you're a little blinkered. You will find most vehicle manufacturers (unless chains are fitted) have significantly reduced their timing belt change interval and no matter which manufacturer you decide to opt with (or without) you'll find most recommend a timing belt change at least once every 4 years.

[Sam]

I typed out a long constructive reply and then deleted it by clicking on a link :zx11:

peteo - Do you get your car serviced annually?

[peteo]

Well, I intend to mycarsavw. I have gone on at some length about VW but, although I love the cars, I have always had the feeling that VW dealerships in particular are out to fleece me. Although I hated the car, I didn't get that feeling with Honda.

In answer to Eshrules, I do understand where he is coming from on deterioration of items in time as opposed to mileage. It would take me about 9 years to reach 80k and there is no way I would expect a piece of rubber to last that long!

But I still have this feeling, and I am not alone if you follow the Honest John thread, that dealers are trying to recoup losses on long life service vehicles from lower mileage ones.

In 20,000 miles, I will pay out about £1,050 in servicing in you include a cam belt change (assuming it is £250). A long life driver might pay only £450 in the same period.

I would feel better if it wasn't for the fact that even a simple service can set you back £200 at VW. Honda charged £105.

I will almost certainly get the work done as I am a bit neurotic about getting things done on time.

But i reserve the right to feel bitter and twisted!

[Eshrules]

Well, I intend to mycarsavw. I have gone on at some length about VW but, although I love the cars, I have always had the feeling that VW dealerships in particular are out to fleece me. Although I hated the car, I didn't get that feeling with Honda.

In answer to Eshrules, I do understand where he is coming from on deterioration of items in time as opposed to mileage. It would take me about 9 years to reach 80k and there is no way I would expect a piece of rubber to last that long!

But I still have this feeling, and I am not alone if you follow the Honest John thread, that dealers are trying to recoup losses on long life service vehicles from lower mileage ones.

In 20,000 miles, I will pay out about £1,050 in servicing in you include a cam belt change (assuming it is £250). A long life driver might pay only £450 in the same period.

I would feel better if it wasn't for the fact that even a simple service can set you back £200 at VW. Honda charged £105.

I will almost certainly get the work done as I am a bit neurotic about getting things done on time.

But i reserve the right to feel bitter and twisted!

The trouble with Honest John is that you get a load of moaners clumping together.

I see you've had a bora before the golf, so this isn't your first experience of servicing costs on a VW, why return to a golf if you were so discontent?

[Sam]

Well, I intend to mycarsavw. I have gone on at some length about VW but, although I love the cars, I have always had the feeling that VW dealerships in particular are out to fleece me. Although I hated the car, I didn't get that feeling with Honda.

Forgive me for attempting to trap you but...! :biglaugh:

From what I can see you're saying you'll endeavour to get your car serviced annually (despite only covering 26k in 4 years) even though VW recommend it be serviced every 12k (?) miles OR 12 months.

BUT

Your car that has only done 26k miles shouldn't have it's belts changed because the suggested cambelt interval is ??k miles OR 4 years.

More seriously, I'll stick my neck out and say 6 years will be fine given your style of driving (which sounds like short trips/town driving) but any longer and you are running the risk of failure, and on a personal standpoint, I don't want to see that happen to anyone.

I had mine changed once at 40k (4 years) and again more recently at 70k (8 years). The reason for both changes was time, not miles. I didn't fancy chancing my arm with the plastic water pump which somehow managed to get fitted again on the first change.

Hopefully there's enough info out there for you to make your own informed choices though, don't let a bunch of keyboard warriors make you do anything you don't want to do :biglaugh:

[peteo]

The trouble with Honest John is that you get a load of moaners clumping together.

I see you've had a bora before the golf, so this isn't your first experience of servicing costs on a VW, why return to a golf if you were so discontent?

It must be love:Blush:

[peteo]

Having bad mouthed VW dealerships, I have spoken to the service manager at my local dealership. What a nice man!

He said that they recommended that the belt be changed at 60,000 regardless of time. He said he would recommend a belt be changed at 8, yes 8, years if the car still hadn't reached 60,000. They will inspect it at 4 years.

I mentioned the 4 year thing. He said different garages recommended different things. The manual for the Mk5 says a change at 80,000 with no time limit but they think 60,000 would err on the side of caution. I asked him if they had had any failures on the Mk5 TDI at low mileages and he said he had never seen one.

It is a mystery to me where this 4 year thing comes from. Evidently not all VW dealerships have been told to offer this advice.

So hats off to Smith Knight Fay in Hyde. I take it all back!

[TDI Chris]

I spoke to an independant VW/Audi specialist garage today and they said that my 1.9 TDI is due a cambelt change as it's over four years old. The quote was £252 all in which I thought was very reasonable, certainly cheaper than main dealer. I am going to get it done even though the car has only covered 40000 miles. Better to be safe than sorry.

[Ex-Alfa]

...but isn't it strange that (if the chap on honestjohn is correct) it's only the UK VW importers that advise 4yrs or 40/60k :confused: Do they know something that HQ in Germany doesn't ?

[onzarob]

...but isn't it strange that (if the chap on honestjohn is correct) it's only the UK VW importers that advise 4yrs or 40/60k :confused: Do they know something that HQ in Germany doesn't ?


Not sure if this should be a conspiracy theory, I would thnk you'll find that garages that have replaced belts and they have broken will always say change more often over garages that have had less issues.

The current VW book I've seen say that a golf mk5 2.0 TDI should be changed every 120,000KM or 74,000 miles...So its a bit confussing when we all think its 60K or 4 years. BTW I'm sticking with 60k or 4 years, just because the alternative is so damn expensive ;)

My last car, an A4,Cost me £250 with a genuine Audi kit including tensioners ;)

[Sam]

...but isn't it strange that (if the chap on honestjohn is correct) it's only the UK VW importers that advise 4yrs or 40/60k :confused: Do they know something that HQ in Germany doesn't ?

Bold emphasis is mine.

It's just that, advice, it isn't the rules to live your life by. It's up to you if you decide to take their advice or not.

Sorry to harp on about it but if the belt does break and you weren't advised by VW UK to change it, you're going to be kicking up a poostorm.

Forewarned is forearmed or something like that

[architect]

Hi There
I'm coming up to my 4 yrs threshold and will definitely get the belt changed. Does this need to be done by VW or do people generally think other mechanics are up to the job? If not VW should I go to a VW 'expert'
Thanks

[onzarob]

Hi There
I'm coming up to my 4 yrs threshold and will definitely get the belt changed. Does this need to be done by VW or do people generally think other mechanics are up to the job? If not VW should I go to a VW 'expert'
Thanks

I believe that alot of garages are un phased by cam belt changes and will save you a few quid as well. Go to a recommended garage in your area ;)

[golf5gt]

Just had a service at an independant of an 05 Petrol Mk 5 Golf which is only just over 4 years old with around 26,000 on the clock and were notified of the cam belt situation and it being recomended to be changed. The book states inspection at 60 and to be changed at 120 thousand and no mention of time.

Just what is going on at VW. Why cannot they stand by their products.
We bought this car last year, to replace an ageing Toyota which had given us over thirteen years of trouble free motoring, on the basis of their otherwise good reputation and what one sees in the book re 120,000 etc.

One wonders what we will be notified about at the next service.
I guess this will be the first and last VW.

Surely for a part to need replacing due to failure in manufacture such as this the cost should be down to VW. This is going to cost their reputation somewhat.

Now we read here it is advised that the water pump be replaced also.

Where does it all end.

[B8 TDI]

Just had a service at an independant of an 05 Petrol Mk 5 Golf which is only just over 4 years old with around 26,000 on the clock and were notified of the cam belt situation and it being recomended to be changed. The book states inspection at 60 and to be changed at 120 thousand and no mention of time.

Just what is going on at VW. Why cannot they stand by their products.
We bought this car last year, to replace an ageing Toyota which had given us over thirteen years of trouble free motoring, on the basis of their otherwise good reputation and what one sees in the book re 120,000 etc.

One wonders what we will be notified about at the next service.
I guess this will be the first and last VW.

Surely for a part to need replacing due to failure in manufacture such as this the cost should be down to VW. This is going to cost their reputation somewhat.

Now we read here it is advised that the water pump be replaced also.

Where does it all end.

Woah slow down there for a second, the timing belts used by VW and every other motor manufacturer are made from rubber, odds are that your toyota, and vw had thier cam belts made by the same factory.

The fact is these belts are made from rubber, rubber is an organic compound and like any other organic compound it has a limited life span, after a certain amount of time it will perish, this has nothing to do with VW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan or any other motor manufacturer.

The 4-5 year change suggestion is just that, it's a suggestion, or would you prefer that the belt perishes and breaks 1000 miles before you reach the suggested milage? It's called preventative maintenance.

And as for the water pump, it's simple maths, you've just paid for 8 hours of labour to change the belt, why the heck would you want to not pay the little extra and have hte pump changed while the car is already stripped down. or would you rather pay another 8 hours of labour for that too?

[peteo]

Yes, I agree about the water pump. They're not that costly if memory serves and take little or no time to fit once the vehicle is stripped down. I had this done on a Polo a few years ago and it made about £30 difference to the total bill.

[Ex-Alfa]

Woah slow down there for a second, the timing belts used by VW and every other motor manufacturer are made from rubber, odds are that your toyota, and vw had thier cam belts made by the same factory.

The fact is these belts are made from rubber, rubber is an organic compound and like any other organic compound it has a limited life span, after a certain amount of time it will perish, this has nothing to do with VW, Audi, Toyota, Nissan or any other motor manufacturer.

The 4-5 year change suggestion is just that, it's a suggestion, or would you prefer that the belt perishes and breaks 1000 miles before you reach the suggested milage? It's called preventative maintenance.

And as for the water pump, it's simple maths, you've just paid for 8 hours of labour to change the belt, why the heck would you want to not pay the little extra and have hte pump changed while the car is already stripped down. or would you rather pay another 8 hours of labour for that too?

Well I think it's ********. If I buy something on the basis that it'll last 80000 miles as stated in the handbook to be told a year later 'oh sorry make that 4 years or 60000 miles and it'll cost you £££ to replace' then I feel like I'm being ripped off. No more VW's for me. I might as well go back to Alfas where you expect to reamed at every opportunity.

[peteo]

Ex Alfa - see my latest post on the other cam belt thread. VW have confirmed to me that the belt should be changed after 4 years.

Regrettably I have thrown in the towel on this one. I still think there is a big question mark over the way this wasn't properly communicated to owners.

I'm going to get mine done as I am a firm believer in sods law!

[onzarob]

I might as well go back to Alfas where you expect to reamed at every opportunity.

Alfa halved all there cam belt ratings about 2 years ago, some are down to 30K!!

I would suspect that the belts are all made by the same manufacturers and they have advised the Car producers to do this, you can't escape it. Unless you buy say and old Alfa 155 1.8 T.Spatk 8 valve..that has a chain..I used to own one, but that needed adjusting at 50k and cost i think £250 in 1997

You can run your car upto 5 years or 80k if you want, it just VW won't honour nay warranty should it go.

I ran a Citreon up to 8 years before having it chnaged...but it was so perished, I was lucky;)

[MalcQV]

Ex Alfa - see my latest post on the other cam belt thread. VW have confirmed to me that the belt should be changed after 4 years.

Regrettably I have thrown in the towel on this one. I still think there is a big question mark over the way this wasn't properly communicated to owners.

I'm going to get mine done as I am a firm believer in sods law!

I have owned a Mondial for 4 1/2 years. I have just booked her in for the third cambelt change in that time. Ferrari I believe are suggesting cars older than 1991 should adhere to a 2 year maximum. The book says 36k. Cars newer every three years. You can do it yourself or as I do have a specialist do it. Being Ferrari it is a little more expensive and do I want to risk replacing the engine? - absolutley not the car would be written off. The car only does about 1000 miles a year too.

Yes I would buy another Ferrari and intend to :p

[B8 TDI]

Well I think it's ********. If I buy something on the basis that it'll last 80000 miles as stated in the handbook to be told a year later 'oh sorry make that 4 years or 60000 miles and it'll cost you £££ to replace' then I feel like I'm being ripped off. No more VW's for me. I might as well go back to Alfas where you expect to reamed at every opportunity.

Ok, I'm going to make a few assumptions here, so I may be a little off, but here goes....

I'm sitting with my Audi Service Schedule Booklet in front of me. and it clearly states

Service Interval every 12 Months or 15,000km

now I assume that the VW is similar or at least states it in similar terms i.e. x many miles or x months.

The emphasis is clearly on time and not on mileage at least in my case, now taking the above in considiration, it is simply common sense that any other kind of maintenance, such as pollen filter replacement, Cam belt replacement etc would follow the same logic, i.e. on time or mileage.

To be fair they could make it a little clearer by specifiying it as such in the manual that much at least I can agree with you on, but it certainly does not take a leap of faith to make the connection between 60,000km or 4 years and 80,000km or 5 years.

[GarJE]

The pd injector pumps put more strain on the timing gear, hence more frequent changes. Another negative to pd ownership! Get vcds and you can put the car onto longlife yourself. Although, like others have said. I wouldn't want to go 2 years without a complete oil change!

[Sam]

...

Service Interval every 12 Months or 15,000km

now I assume that the VW is similar or at least states it in similar terms i.e. x many miles or x months....

You and I are on the same page, as I said the same thing, on the.... er.... other page :D

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=330681&postcount=41

[Sam]

An example of how much this could cost should it all go wrong (note external link and not my Passat)

2003 Passat 1.8T, all maintenance carried out on time and to the letter, 78k miles on the clock.

http://www.passatworld.com/forums/showthread.php?t=288305

Summary of work required

Rebuild cylinder head, resurface piston heads, replace timing belt, tensioners, water pump and thermostat, new coolant, replace cylinder head gaskets, exhaust flange gasket, turbo gasket, replace cracked dip stick funnel.

Total bill ~$4.5k dollars / ~£3k

[rpeiris]

On a separate thread that I started, I had the very same original problem..comparatively low mileage on my Golf Mk5 54 2.0 FSI (42,000 miles). I've just had my cam belt and water pump replaced. Like one of the comments above, I saw the old belt and visually, there was nothing wrong with it. None of the ratchets had worn out and it looked almost new.

However, according to my mechanic, due to the above reasons of the engine working under pressure,

a) the belt can break at any time after an extended period of use (especially after the '4 year replacement suggestion')

b) quite often, the pulleys that the belt spin on give way resulting in the damage

Even though the VW book says 60,000 or so, follow the 4 year rule. Better be safe than sorry as if the belt goes, you will be sorry!

Hope this helps! Cheers!

[mk5owner]

Buy a BMW series 1 they still have chain cambelts, you dont need to think about it for 100,000 VW actually recommended to me 40,000 or 4 years not 80,000 for our Golf so even worse.

[toekneeb]

I bought my 2006 GT TDI 2.0 in August with 52K on the clock, but rather than wait and have the whole thing go in the next few K, i went ultra safe and got the cambelt and water pump done. Having done 4K since i haven't regretted doing either job.

I agree that the BMW 1Series uses a chain, my golf replaces a 3 series 318d which needs no belt change.