stock tdi 130pd vs remapped tdi100pd

[gbrad2x]

Anybody driven a remapped 100tdi pd and a stock 130tdi pd? Which is quicker? Was just curious.....

What are the differences? I know the 100pd is noiser and a good bit slower at stock ...

[STEWY L]

Anybody driven a remapped 100tdi pd and a stock 130tdi pd? Which is quicker? Was just curious.....

What are the differences? I know the 100pd is noiser and a good bit slower at stock ...
i have driven what i believed to be a 110 pdi,as a company car,a few years back, and was very impressed with both perfomance,and economy.
only had,whatever it was,for a few weeks, but later on,when looking to change my astra 1.4 est,searched the internet,dealers,indys, and found my present car,"stanley"a 2001 bora pd130 sport,in reflex silver(very soft paint), but love it to smithereens.
it goes well, it is economical, and it is reliable.
what you need to be aware of,while tuning companies will promise increased performance, each increment in performance will decrease the life of your clutch/engine.
if they say 25% increase in bhp,that will bring you to 125bhp on your 100
stock, still below the 130, but i hasten to add,the difference you will see/feel will be in the torque, nm,not the bhp.
this is where you need to think long and hard.
the 130 pd(ASZ) engine has the same block and cylinder head as the 150(ARL), but i believe has a less turbo, and a side mounted intercooler,with i would have thought,a different ecu map.
three thousand people are now going to come in and tell me where i am wrong, which is what our forum is all about, but what i'm trying to say is,
mapping your 100pd , won't give you a 130pd..
best go out,if you can, and get a 130. you wouldn't feel the need to remap it.
best regards,
stewy.;)

[Col]

three thousand people are now going to come in and tell me where i am wrong, which is what our forum is all about

Nope sounds good.

I reckon a mapped 100 should feel and drive like a std 130.

As Stewy has said though, the clutch may suffer.

[gbrad2x]

I HAVE the 130pd 6 speed but cheers neways lads.... And it puts out 145 on the rr! Was just wondering if anybody had driven a stock 130 and remapped 100 and compared the 2.

Was thinking about a sachs clutch and vnt 20 turbo for my pd 130 along with a custom remap, what you guys think?
Should push near the 200 bhp mark at that rate! and then 400 + nm of stick to the seat torque.... Will cost a good bit to do tho..

You got any mods yourselves for you bora?

Cheers for the input

[Bora me Golf]

Hi guys....

Just be cautious when remapping a 130..... the tourque on this engine after a remap is far above what the duel mass flywheel is happy with.... a clutch thats been in the car a while will not stand the extra abuse for long before slipping... im talkin about a large increase, 190bhp 400nm + of tourque.... basically, the clutch and flywheel will have the friction of a couple of sheets of glass.... a good tip though is in the low gears, feed the power rather than boot it....

having said that, after 10,000 miles and having resisted the temptation (most of the time) of caning the car in the low gears the new clutch has stood the extra power.... time will tell i guess.... it is nice tho when the lil boyz in their pocket rockets just get a glimpse of a tdi badge while they get left stood at traffic lights......

[speed12]

Cant agree more,

The clutch/ flywheel combo is the only part i am concerned about wth my remapped 130. I think the rest of the components should be ok providiing regular services and long life oil.

I had my 130 mapped to 170 (approx 384Nm of torque), im not certain of the milage since, but it was a good 3-4 months ago now. Likewise i tend to feed the power, with the occassional booting to clear the pipes, so far no problems with the clutch, though im holding some money for when it does go....

When it does go i guess i will upgrade the clutch plate etc, but use a standard flywheel, as i understand it, its the heat generated during clutch slip that kills the DMF?

[gbrad2x]

did you stick an oem or uprated clutch into her? i wouldnt be going to 190BHP without the help of the vnt20 turbo in the 2.5tdi. The stock 130 turbo is good to do 170 safely but after that you would be pushing it beyond its safe limits and when you push up the revs you are threading on thin ice especially if car has over 100k.....

If an uprated clutch is fitted Im guessing the stock DMF will be ok after remap?... Can any or the forums experts confirm that this would be the case?

The only uprated flywheel I came accross was a lighter single solid one by sachs and Im told this is not good for the gearbox and driveshaft due to the vibration casued from not having a dual mass....

IM half thinking I wont bother remapping after all. The previous tdi 100pd I had was fine to remap without any mods...Not the case with the pd 130 it seems but thats understandable as its only a 1.9L 8v engine at the end of the day... and a bloddy good one at that!!

Was thinking my next car will be the mightY 2.0 tdi 170... Drove one and they go like a stabbed rat, not far off the performance of the 2.0l turbo FSI and way better MPG ....

[Bora me Golf]

in my case, the clutch itself never failed, although very shiny... it was the dmf that failed.... replaced the lot anyway...

cheepest i could do it parts n labour... clutch, DMF, concentric realese bearing, labour etc 590 beer tokens

[gbrad2x]

in my case, the clutch itself never failed, although very shiny... it was the dmf that failed.... replaced the lot anyway...

cheepest i could do it parts n labour... clutch, DMF, concentric realese bearing, labour etc 590 beer tokens


ANd were you driving the rocks out of it or what? Were you flooring it at low rpms before the turbo got into its stride?

[Bora me Golf]

ANd were you driving the rocks out of it or what? Were you flooring it at low rpms before the turbo got into its stride?

You could say i was a little over enthusiastic.... sure you can emagine getting out of a 130bhp car and getting into 190 bhp car.... but taking into consideration that the original clutch/flywheel had done 75000 miles.... the extra power was probly enuff to kill it.... saying that, now done 10000 miles and no probs... you also have to realise its not just the bhp that causes these hiccups..... its the tourqe....

there is a quote kicking around somewhere..."horse power sells cars..... torque wins races"... not really relevent here but i like it anyway.....

[gbrad2x]

Yes it is the torque that will destroy alot of components but i believe if you take the hp too far then the turbo will blow alot easier... hp determines the top speed more so where as torque is how quick it takes to get there... correct me if im wrong i could well be!!

[Bora me Golf]

Yes it is the torque that will destroy alot of components but i believe if you take the hp too far then the turbo will blow alot easier... hp determines the top speed more so where as torque is how quick it takes to get there... correct me if im wrong i could well be!!
i guess if it were to be driven flat out all the time yes.... the lot would more than likely fall to bits... guess its a case of using common sense... if you know you have the power but abusing it will break something then you tend to be less abusive... i have also stuck to standard replacement clutch & flywheel cos they are cheaper and easier to replace and tend to fail before anything else does... in theory.... oh.. a theory i am not trying to put to the test by the way.

as for the turbo... however far ive pushed it, it just whistles away contently.... touch wood, never had a problem there... a turbo can fail for a multitude of reasons... personally a big believer in letting a turbo spin down before shutting the engine off. looking after your kit makes it last longer....

anyhow... anyone worried about remapping and mods on the 130 or any motor maybe just shoulnt do it.... for me its a calculated risk..... heres why....

1.goes like sh*t stink when i want it to. aprox 1% of the time
2.better power distribution throughout the rev range in everygear
3.normal driving was giving aprox 47mpg now giving 56mpg (i do 600miles/week do the maths)
4.the cars a damn pleasure to drive.

[gbrad2x]

And is the perfomance alot quicker or just a bit? I suppose you have to ask yourself is the performance increase worth the risk of damaging the car... Would you take a 330d for example..HAve you drivien anything fast that you can compare it to ?

[Bora me Golf]

And is the perfomance alot quicker or just a bit? I suppose you have to ask yourself is the performance increase worth the risk of damaging the car... Would you take a 330d for example..HAve you drivien anything fast that you can compare it to ?
quite a bit quicker than it was, more responsive and even better on fuel..... its not in the league of a 330d... if i wanted that id buy one... at the end of the day i bought a nice little, resonably priced, second hand saloon car for day to day running around.... what i save alone in fuel by parking up a rodeo denver for the longer trips covers everycost of the car, even repairs & servicing (only been the one repair to date).... by enjoying the pros of the remap etc and being aware of the cons im perfectly happy with my choice.... 10000 miles happy so far.

although ive owned and driven some beasts in the past the only car i can compare it to at the moment is my old golf 3 gti16v wich over the years has had fortunes spent on it to take it to 200bhp and in honesty the golf is quicker of the mark and a bit quicker overall but then it only returns about 20mpg ... in saying that the bora wouldnt be far behind......

[STEWY L]

Hi guys....

Just be cautious when remapping a 130..... the tourque on this engine after a remap is far above what the duel mass flywheel is happy with.... a clutch thats been in the car a while will not stand the extra abuse for long before slipping... im talkin about a large increase, 190bhp 400nm + of tourque.... basically, the clutch and flywheel will have the friction of a couple of sheets of glass.... a good tip though is in the low gears, feed the power rather than boot it....

having said that, after 10,000 miles and having resisted the temptation (most of the time) of caning the car in the low gears the new clutch has stood the extra power.... time will tell i guess.... it is nice tho when the lil boyz in their pocket rockets just get a glimpse of a tdi badge while they get left stood at traffic lights......
sorry bora,but you are wrong.
you couldn't be further from the truth.
the clutch takes LESS STICK in the lower gears than it does in the higher gears.
try this.
pull away in first. easy?
pull away in second,or third.
speaks for its self.
low gears,less torque through the clutch,high gears much more.
regards,
stewy.

[Bora me Golf]

sorry bora,but you are wrong.
you couldn't be further from the truth.
the clutch takes LESS STICK in the lower gears than it does in the higher gears.
try this.
pull away in first. easy?
pull away in second,or third.
speaks for its self.
low gears,less torque through the clutch,high gears much more.
regards,
stewy.
hi stewy...

credit where credit is due... it is easier to pull away in 1st rather than 2nd or 3rd, if you hadnt pointed that out id never have known....but this post wasnt about getting a basic driving lesson it was about the effects of a remap, the extra tourqe and it effects on componants....

Ill put my enginnering degree and physics a level to one side and try and explain this as simply as i can....... if you apply more torque to a componant that hasnt been designed to cope with it... it will fail... in the case of the dmf the clutch will slip... mating faces will loose friction (get all shiny)... next, imagine you trying to walk on ice.... slippery start but once you get a bit of momentum you may find you can walk quite easily (dependant on how much you have had to drink). which brings me to my next point.... once momentum has kicked in the clutch was not slipping because it is not trying to propel a one ton+ object from a standing start.

heres a little experiment you can try but not near ya mams greenhouse... place a football on level ground.. stand back and throw a stone at it. the likely result is the ball will move slightly and the stone hit you in the face... Now, roll the ball so it has momentum and providing you not a bad shot, throw the stone at the ball with the same force... result... the ball will gain more momentum, the force taken out of the stone and it will fall to the floor... now turn that around so the stone is the flywheel and the ball is the clutch...

the points i was making in these posts were based on personal circumstances.... after remapping the car and sticking my clog down in the low gears made the clutch slip..... sticking my clog down in the higher gears when travelling at speed it did not slip.... after replacing the clutch/dmf etc and slightly altering my driving style... which involves not being so heavy footed in the lower gears, but still givin it some, i have managed 10000 miles without a hint of a slip..... proofs in the puddin really...

Just out of interest.... seeing as my very own circumstances are so far from the truth... how come one very large car manufacturer recalled a very large amount of diesels to alter the mapping to reduce torque in the lower gears because of premature wear on transmittion componants? answers on a postcard please....

have a nice day....

[speed12]

I guess this is all speed dependant though,

At 50mph the torque transmitted in 4th will be lower than the same at 20mph? or should i say the torque required would be much lower.

I get mixed veiws on the safest way to drive a deisel, some say drive with low revs and a high gear to save fuel and save the clutch - but in my opinion this labours the engine, clutch etc.

However at the same time driving in a lower gear seems to cause rather high revs which is not any good for fuel consumption.... sometimes when cruising at 60mpg on a b road i can not make my mind up to be in 4th, 5th or 6th.

How accurate do people think their trip computer is? Im sure mine is not very accurate and seems to average at 44-45mpg. However with a 12 gallon tank (I think this is correct) this means about 530 miles to a tank, however if i go past the red light a bit i can normally push 600 miles to a tank which is an average 0f 50mpg, surely the trip computer cant be 5mpg out?

[Bora me Golf]

I guess this is all speed dependant though,

At 50mph the torque transmitted in 4th will be lower than the same at 20mph? or should i say the torque required would be much lower.

I get mixed veiws on the safest way to drive a deisel, some say drive with low revs and a high gear to save fuel and save the clutch - but in my opinion this labours the engine, clutch etc.

However at the same time driving in a lower gear seems to cause rather high revs which is not any good for fuel consumption.... sometimes when cruising at 60mpg on a b road i can not make my mind up to be in 4th, 5th or 6th.

How accurate do people think their trip computer is? Im sure mine is not very accurate and seems to average at 44-45mpg. However with a 12 gallon tank (I think this is correct) this means about 530 miles to a tank, however if i go past the red light a bit i can normally push 600 miles to a tank which is an average 0f 50mpg, surely the trip computer cant be 5mpg out?
morning speed12

i think a lot of its all down to individual driving styles.... obviously the best gear to be in is top for fuel economy but thats dictated by speed and conditions... but 60 mph... in top (you have 6 speed yes) will be not much above tickover... im getting 60+ mpg on the computer at that... and confortable with it..

if you're gettin anyway near 600 to a tank ya not doin bad at all.... compare that with a 1.8 petrol who'll probly be gettin far less mpg with no better performance....

i find the best result for my car for economy is keep the rev counter below 2500 when gear changing, top gear when ever possible... back off the trottle and sort of coast along when comming to a turn or junction... instead of braking hard at the last minute....dont worry about labouring the engine a bit... dont forget, cars are designed for all walks of life... old granies and boy racers alike... this would be like driving like me nanna (RIP) but if i do a full tank like this i can pass 600 miles

[speed12]

I dont mind a bit of engine labouring, but since i have had the remap i dont want to do it too much, i try and change down before booting it rather than flooring it from 1500 rpm, failing that i guess progressive power is the kinder option, rather than sudden shock loads.

[Volk]

How accurate do people think their trip computer is? Im sure mine is not very accurate and seems to average at 44-45mpg. However with a 12 gallon tank (I think this is correct) this means about 530 miles to a tank, however if i go past the red light a bit i can normally push 600 miles to a tank which is an average 0f 50mpg, surely the trip computer cant be 5mpg out?

Mine under reads about 8% so 45 mpg is really 48.6 mpg, iirc the accuracy of the computer can be changed by using VACom

[VanWheeler]

Anybody driven a remapped 100tdi pd and a stock 130tdi pd? Which is quicker? Was just curious.....

What are the differences? I know the 100pd is noiser and a good bit slower at stock ...

Will be about the same 130pd is 130hp and 310nm, where as the 100pd mapped (with an eco map) is 133hp and 300nm. But you could put a stronger map on and you'd see 140 and 330nm

But a 130 can go 190hp and 420nm and still retain it's economy under normal driving.

Cheers, Mark

[veedubbora07tdi]

i have driven what i believed to be a 110 pdi,as a company car,a few years back, and was very impressed with both perfomance,and economy.
only had,whatever it was,for a few weeks, but later on,when looking to change my astra 1.4 est,searched the internet,dealers,indys, and found my present car,"stanley"a 2001 bora pd130 sport,in reflex silver(very soft paint), but love it to smithereens.
it goes well, it is economical, and it is reliable.
what you need to be aware of,while tuning companies will promise increased performance, each increment in performance will decrease the life of your clutch/engine.
if they say 25% increase in bhp,that will bring you to 125bhp on your 100
stock, still below the 130, but i hasten to add,the difference you will see/feel will be in the torque, nm,not the bhp.
this is where you need to think long and hard.
the 130 pd(ASZ) engine has the same block and cylinder head as the 150(ARL), but i believe has a less turbo, and a side mounted intercooler,with i would have thought,a different ecu map.
three thousand people are now going to come in and tell me where i am wrong, which is what our forum is all about, but what i'm trying to say is,
mapping your 100pd , won't give you a 130pd..
best go out,if you can, and get a 130. you wouldn't feel the need to remap it.
best regards,
stewy.;)

Totally agree, find the extra cash and buy the 130

[VanWheeler]

As above!

[gbrad2x]

Incorrect.... the stock pd 130 puts out more than 130bhp, usually between 135-150! All vws put out over the stated bhp, especially the pds..

And I corrected the post if ya read back guys... I have a pd 130! Was just curious if anybody had driven both and noticed much fo a difference :)



Will be about the same 130pd is 130hp and 310nm, where as the 100pd mapped (with an eco map) is 133hp and 300nm. But you could put a stronger map on and you'd see 140 and 330nm

But a 130 can go 190hp and 420nm and still retain it's economy under normal driving.

Cheers, Mark

[VanWheeler]

Of course, but I'm going on supposed stock figures. There still would not be a lot in it ;)

[gbrad2x]

Of course, but I'm going on supposed stock figures. There still would not be a lot in it ;)


True enough mate....But then the 100pd aint got the 6th gear so even though it would have the same power, in or around, the 130 would still have a much nicer power band spread out through the 6 gears to keep it in the power band at higher speed.....


Chip-n-spin , Im sure you see alot of clutch issues with 130pd remaps? What mods would you recommend for the 130pd before the remap?

[VanWheeler]

All the 130's I have done have not reported issue with the clutch as webring the torque in nice a smooth to avoid these issue. But if you are going for a very strong remap and are heavy on clutches then a sports clutch is advisable. We've run the 130's at 190hp and 300lb/ft and they have not had any issue.

Thanks, Mark