Why Is Diesel More Expensive Than Petrol?

[JayB5UK]

:zx11:

Anyone?

[kenney]

From what i have read it is the fact there is a bigger demand on diesel,and it seems the oil companys are taking advantage of this.

[con1981]

sounds about right, diesel isn't as refined as petrol therefore i guess it doesn't have to go through as many processes which you would have thought would have kept the cost down. My only thought is tax and popularity as you've said. Once anything gets popular they hike the price look at LPG that's becoming increasing expensive just like deisal. They want people to shift over to green fuels where's the logic other than lining their pockets:zx11: Government is only interested in looking after themselves! After all I haven't seen an improvement on British roads, or NHS for that matter. where does the revenue go?

the only consolation with diesel is the MPG but just because something is more efficient doesn't mean that you should be penalized for using it:confused:

[onzarob]

From what i have read it is the fact there is a bigger demand on diesel,and it seems the oil company's are taking advantage of this.

Correct, i did a bit of research and fond some stats.

Europe consumes more diesel than petrol but you only get 25% petrol and 25% diesel out of a barrel of crude oil, this is for European refineries.

Diesel demand passed petrol nearly 10 years ago in Europe.

In America, petrol is still the most used but for every 8 gallons of petrol burnt 1 gallon is imported from Europe!!!

US refineries use a different method and produce 50% petrol and 25% diesel from a barrel of crude oil.

I read a report about the latest diesel cars for America saying the any mpg advantage will be lost due to the scarcity of diesel and cost of it.

So from all that you can see there is too much petrol and not enough diesel in Europe and the refineries are setup to maximse diesel production. so its just going to get more expensive.:aargh4:

[JayB5UK]

It's becoming a joke. I made the jump from a petrol turbo Audi A4, to the Passat TDi in February.
I do get more mpg, but since buying the car, every month when I fill up, it costs me more to fill it up.
My A4 used to do about 30mpg and i'm only really getting 44mpg out of the Passat. Soon any saving made from switching will have been a waste of time.
I'm going to end up getting something like a poxy 206HDi that does 55mpg at this rate, or go back to a Petrol! It makes me very angry, yet another thing to make me want to leave the UK for good.
I feel sorry for anyone who drives for a living, such as taxi drivers etc. I don't really do that many miles a month now, I used to drive for pleasure, but not anymore - and I'm also having to think twice about going out too much on my Fireblade, that now takes about £17 to fill up and I get about 150 miles out of a tank. A few years ago it was more like £11 to fill a bike up.
I have just discovered that the Excise on diesel is currently 57p / litre compared to 54p for normal petrol and 50p on ULSP, but 12p / litre difference between Diesel & Unleaded at the pumps is a joke. (Let alone using V-Power or similar!)

RANT OVER! (FOR NOW)

[solorider]

the reason why diesel is more expensive is a few years ago the last govenment (the conservatists) put more on the price of diesel than they did on petrol when they did thir yearly fuel price increase in the budget

[dandam]

Yeah, I remember the government increasing duty on diesel about 10+ years ago, I think back then they decided it was less enviromentally friendly than petrol due to the particles in it or something lke that, so they were trying to increase the tax for enviromental reasons - bit like the road tax increasing now.

Thing is although it is more expensive it still makes more sense - on average it is around 10p more expensive per litre, so about 9% higher, but fuel consumption is definitely more than 9% better in a diesel vs petrol car.

And expect it to get worse, demand peaks through the summer months and prices always rise then - I have heard predictions of £1.50 per litre, which considering that around me it seems to be going up about 2p per week could well happen :aargh4::aargh4:

[Ray Jones]

When I had my first diesel about 20 years ago,a BX,the price was at least 10% less than petrol.Bloody disgrace:mad:

[JayB5UK]

Bloody disgrace, I agree.

I am worrying and thinking of selling the TDi already! At £1.50 / litre I won't see any benefit, especially if Petrol is still where it is or even up to £1.20 like diesel is now.

We need protests about the fuel prices, if this were France everyone would have gone mad and stopped the Country already!

Back in 2000 was the last time we had this situation - and how much was fuel then, under 70p . litre if I recall?

:zx11::zx11::zx11::zx11::zx11:

[andy8442]

Arrrrgh!Bloody disgrace, damn right.

Does anyone remember the email that went around a few times over the last year or so. It basically said boycott Esso and BP I think, and fill up elsewhere. There was alot more too it than that, but it the objective was to create a price war of sorts between the Filling stations. Sound familiar to anyone?

If anyone has the original email why don't you start it off again. I think it would gain alot more attention now, as all hear about at work is how much it just cost someone to fill up.

[JayB5UK]

Yeah I got it yesterday and may start it again, but unless the govt. have a re-think about Fuel Duty crippling us we may be wasting our time.

[onzarob]

I think the issue is that the petrol companies have made there money extracting the oil and refining it.

I would even go to say that a barrel of BP oil will go to more then one refinery and be sold by more than one petrol supplier. they just add a few different additives for there unique part.

The only way to cripple a Oil company is not use oil in the first place:mad:

[con1981]

yeah ok i take your point that we are all reliant on oil and there's no way of getting round that. Even if we could they would still hike the prices to improve there income (government and oil company)to compensate. as fuel, engines, cars become more efficient oil companies and government need some way to bolster there profit and if there is less demand for a product the only way to do that is to make it more expensive. it's a lose lose scenario:zx11::zx11:

i say road blocks like they did , grind the country to a halt because in essance that's what the government is doing any way. buying upping the price haulage, taxi firms anyone that uses fuel isn't going to be able to afford it! average income is £16,000 a year after tax that about £1000 a month someone using there car to travel to work on that salary may use 10% + on fuel just to get to work and back not to mention the others living costs. :aargh4:

[JayB5UK]

Takes the **** even more when my best mate who works overseas a lot tells me that Petrol is only 12p / litre in Kuwait!

V8's are almost cumpulsory!

[The Cobbler]

Local fishermen up here are now building boats fitted with petrol engines !!!! its incredible . I also know a bloke thats looking at a petrol excavator , and what do you think they will do once the whole country has changed back to pertol ? you,ve got it .......diesle will come back down in price due to a reduction in demand.

[JohnyIre]

Its getting so expensive I can imagine a huge increase of people using agricultural diesel.

[andrenb]

Yes mate, i believe i have that e-mail stored away in my inbox somewhere, will get that doing the rounds again straight away!
Like most people, made the switch from petrol to diesel last year to save on fuel costs, it now costs more to run my TDi than it did to run my 1.6 Leon last year. Shocking.
Even considered bio (was around 90p per litre a month ago), but 1 month on is now pretty much in line with standard pump diesel prices.
Bandwagon to jump on anybody???

[onzarob]

it now costs more to run my TDi than it did to run my 1.6 Leon last year. Shocking.



I'm not sure thats right, I been running a new 1.25l fiesta petrol for he last week (My Audi is in for a new wing!!) and I'm not getting as good economy as my Audi, even with 9% price drop which is the price difference

Its supposed to do 48mpg combined but I think thats at snails pace.The Audi does 70 everywhere ;) with a fraction of the gear changes and allot less stress:D

I think the difference has to be nearer 40% to level a 50mpg diesel to a 32mpg 1.8L petrol.

Only the micro cars get near this with a petrol, but driving 61 miles a day a diesel Audi/vw is far more economic and comfortable than a little car.

[BROWN_OWL]

we need a mutiny!!!! overthrow the government and make fuel cheaper or just protest enough. I mean fuel companies had a 50% increase in profit in the first quarter!!!!! and we have to pay for it!!! it cost me 73quit to fill up from empty to brim today!!!!! shocking

[onzarob]

OPEC and the OIL companies ain't complaining at higher prices and they can hide behind the Government and say it the TAX not them controlling the cost of crude oil...shameful:zx11:

[BROWN_OWL]

i was talking with someone the other day and even if the companies Give us free fuel we will still have to pay 80p a litre from the taxes. Not too mention we are taxed twice on fuel. Once is included in the refinery price and then the VAT is added. ggggggggrrrrrrr

[kimandsally]

I suppose it's because they can charge more for it and get away with it, fuel pricing is not like other things like bread and milk.

[MalcQV]

The only way is to reduce demand.

[Issac Hunt]

Of course it is, its a simple case of supply and demand. Countries like China and India are growing a very fast pace. As they modernise and develop then their demand for oil increases. More people want it, hence the price goes up.

[CMcK]

Diesel and petrol cost roughly the same to produce these days. Getting the sulphur out for so called city fuels and Euro legislation means the cost of production has gone up a bit this last decade. IIRC both fuels are taxed 18 times before leaving a refinery in the UK. Then you still have VAT to pay at the pumps. The treasury is the biggest culprit when looking for someone to blame for high fuel prices.
Also the increasing dieselisation of the UK means diesel is trading at higher prices as the market will support it.
The often touted "blockade the pumps to start a price war idea" is silly as, for example, all the fuel in Scotland comes from the Ineos refinery in Grangemouth. V Power and BP Ultimate have different additives added as the ULSP or ULSD is loaded into the tanker. Any price reductions you see, such as the 5p off a litre Tesco vouchers, must destroy their profit margin. I take it they are hoping you will buy some other goods in the forecourt shop while you are there to make some money. Why do you think BP stations sell coffees etc these days.

[kimandsally]

Diesel and petrol cost roughly the same to produce these days. Getting the sulphur out for so called city fuels and Euro legislation means the cost of production has gone up a bit this last decade. IIRC both fuels are taxed 18 times before leaving a refinery in the UK. Then you still have VAT to pay at the pumps. The treasury is the biggest culprit when looking for someone to blame for high fuel prices.
Also the increasing dieselisation of the UK means diesel is trading at higher prices as the market will support it.
The often touted "blockade the pumps to start a price war idea" is silly as, for example, all the fuel in Scotland comes from the Ineos refinery in Grangemouth. V Power and BP Ultimate have different additives added as the ULSP or ULSD is loaded into the tanker. Any price reductions you see, such as the 5p off a litre Tesco vouchers, must destroy their profit margin. I take it they are hoping you will buy some other goods in the forecourt shop while you are there to make some money. Why do you think BP stations sell coffees etc these days.

Thanks for taking the time to put together a meaningfull post, I typically never manage to do that.

[Issac Hunt]

The treasury is the biggest culprit when looking for someone to blame for high fuel prices.

Yes, sort of. They arent to blame for the fact its gone from £1 to £1.30 in less than a year though. Thats due to the rising cost of a barrel of crude oil over which the Govt have no control. OPEC need to be brought under control more I believe.

Yes, of course they could reduce the duty we pay - which is one of the highest in the world! They wont though as this would leave a huge hole in the bank balance which could only be filled by increasing other taxes, like VAT or income tax - not exactly a vote winner is it?!

Someone has to foot the social security bill, and its the lucky motorist!

[CMcK]

OPEC seems to be a law unto themselves. Anyone remember then Govenor Bush Jr's promises to get OPEC on side and helping out? That worked well...

What annoys me most about paying so much tax as a motorist is the state of the roads in the UK. They really are awful. It's not like there is anything to show for all the tax revenue raised from transport.
Aviation fuel isn't taxed to anything like the extent petrol and diesel is and is being used in significant volumes these days. Why not increase taxes there a little?
And public transport is a mystery to many people now. I do use trains quite a lot (mainly so I can have a pint at the other end) but I cannot remember the last time I got on a bus that wasn't the Park & Ride into Chester.
Just wait till I get my free bus pass. In about 30 years. I'm going to travel all over the UK and try to recoup as much money as I can.

[con1981]

Surely haulage agriculture are planning some blockades. Anyone know?

If this was france everyone would be out on strike!

[MalcQV]

Diesel is definitely losing out to our European cousins, petrol not as bad.
TheAA (http://www.theaa.com/onlinenews/allaboutcars/fuel/2008/may2008.pdf)

[tornadored7]

Old is Gold:

"Don't steal. The Government doesn't like competition :D ..."

Although I have been a TDI driver for nearly 11 years now and greatly admire the TDI, personally I think that Fossil fuels are just that; a relic of the past.

We need to look at non fossil fuels, and this is just the impetus.

More short term, Diesel drivers need to be a little more creative with Vegetable oil, but this might be trickier with PD / Common rail engines.

TR7

[andy8442]

Diesel and petrol cost roughly the same to produce these days. Getting the sulphur out for so called city fuels and Euro legislation means the cost of production has gone up a bit this last decade. IIRC both fuels are taxed 18 times before leaving a refinery in the UK. Then you still have VAT to pay at the pumps. The treasury is the biggest culprit when looking for someone to blame for high fuel prices.
Also the increasing dieselisation of the UK means diesel is trading at higher prices as the market will support it.
The often touted "blockade the pumps to start a price war idea" is silly as, for example, all the fuel in Scotland comes from the Ineos refinery in Grangemouth. V Power and BP Ultimate have different additives added as the ULSP or ULSD is loaded into the tanker. Any price reductions you see, such as the 5p off a litre Tesco vouchers, must destroy their profit margin. I take it they are hoping you will buy some other goods in the forecourt shop while you are there to make some money. Why do you think BP stations sell coffees etc these days.

Still we could try, if only to bring a bit more attention to the fact that fuel is going up and up.

Tell me this some one, why is fuel going up by 2p and 3p a litre, a week!
Check the price of crude, its' up and down and all over the place, but what it is not is steadily rising, the likes of what we are seeing in the UK!

Check with friends in europe, sure its' up, but not the steady rise we are all seeing here.

What is going on?

[kenney]

[QUOTE]Check with friends in europe, sure its' up, but not the steady rise we are all seeing here.You are wrong there mate,here in Norway you would think we could buy fuel cheaper,but far from it.A litre of petrol costs £1,30,and as in the UK it goes up every week.Beleive it or not this morning the diesel cost £1.80 a liter

[CMcK]

Still we could try, if only to bring a bit more attention to the fact that fuel is going up and up.

Tell me this some one, why is fuel going up by 2p and 3p a litre, a week!
Check the price of crude, its' up and down and all over the place, but what it is not is steadily rising, the likes of what we are seeing in the UK!

Check with friends in europe, sure its' up, but not the steady rise we are all seeing here.

What is going on?

It's due to all the people buying oil futures. Speculation like that is driving the price of crude up and the US announcement yesterday that they didn't have as much 'gas' and crude oil stocks as they thought didin't help.

OPEC could increase output to attempt to cut the price but the speculators in the financial markets will just keep buying. And the government doesn't mind all the extra tax revenue the high prices brings in.

[andy8442]

Crikey! £1.80? And I thought we had it bad, as for the rest of europe I'm just going on what friends in France and Spain are saying.My friend in France drives all over europe but not to Norway , luckily.

[MalcQV]

Here's (http://www.commonsleader.gov.uk/output/page2433.asp) where the tax is going.

[onzarob]

I overheard some people planning a protest on Monday down this way, but it a bank holiday!!! may cause a few caravaner's a bit of an issue;):biglaugh:

[kimandsally]

Look on the government website it's happening over 1000 sigs since 11pm last night, I'm making the effort I have personally made well over 500 sigs since yesterday.

E mail it to your friends for gods sake it costs nothing and goes straight to the PM's door.

After the Crewe result he might be even more ready to listen, come on gyus hit him when he's down it's a lot easier.

[andy8442]

Look on the government website it's happening over 1000 sigs since 11pm last night, I'm making the effort I have personally made well over 500 sigs since yesterday.

E mail it to your friends for gods sake it costs nothing and goes straight to the PM's door.

After the Crewe result he might be even more ready to listen, come on gyus hit him when he's down it's a lot easier.


Have you got a link?

[MalcQV]

Have you got a link?

See link (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=183224&postcount=6)

[k9max]

Just wait till I get my free bus pass. In about 30 years. I'm going to travel all over the UK and try to recoup as much money as I can.

Don't worry, by then the government will have found a way to put tax on that as well!
The thing is with the govt, they won't help their own people. If the current soaring fuel costs were solely down to the oil companies, in an ideal world you'd think the govt would help out by reducing the tax on it. Likewise with improving public transport and making it a priority; if anything, it's the opposite. The way things are going I reckon (with my simplified way of thinking!) a general crisis will be inevitable; in order to cover fuel costs the price of everything we buy will go up, people will then stop buying certain things which in turn will put others out of business and the whole thing will have a knock-on effect and spell disaster for the economy.
As for petrol v diesel cars, before long we won't notice a difference in running costs between the two after the maths have been done, what you gain on diesel consumption is lost on cost per litre, and petrolheads get stung with the road tax...so by switching from one to the other probably wouldn't be of any benefit anyway.

[tornadored7]

Old is Gold:

"Don't steal. The Government doesn't like competition :D ..."

Although I have been a TDI driver for nearly 11 years now and greatly admire the TDI, personally I think that Fossil fuels are just that; a relic of the past.

We need to look at non fossil fuels, and this is just the impetus.

More short term, Diesel drivers need to be a little more creative with Vegetable oil, but this might be trickier with PD / Common rail engines.

TR7



Non fossil fuels ... Perhaps an Electric Car ? (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?p=184563#post184563)