Help needed with Park Brake/Auto Hold

[mikecb1]

Just bought a 56 TDi Sport 170 with 20k miles, and struggling to get to grips with the smart (?) braking system.

Four times now in one week the park brake has failed to release when pulling away (Twice for me, twice for my wife). Since I have always used the handbrake in previous cars at junctions, traffic lights, roundabouts etc, this is potentially very dangerous, and I have lost confidence in using the park brake for temporary stops. Is there some trick to getting the brake to release reliably, or is it more likely to be an intermittent fault with the system? Is the parking brake not intended to be used for temporary stops, and if so, then how does one pull away on a hill?

Since I have the Auto Hold function, I thought I would try using this for temporary stops. This kinda works, but since the brake releases as soon as I touch the accelorator, the car rolls back a little on inclines before I can pull away. Again, is this just a case of learning the knack, or is there a fault?

Any ideas/experiences gratefully received. (The car is good otherwise).

Mike

[Santana]

You may have a fault with your car of course, but the brake does take some getting used to.

I think the key to getting it to release, is to use enough throttle. With a manual handbrake the driver waits for the revs to drop slightly knowing the clutch is then biting. This isn't sufficient on the Passat, it's waiting for you apply throttle.

So: fully depresss clutch, bring it back up, feel the bite point, then apply generous throttle.

I found it difficult on hills at first ( I don't have autohold) but now I'm not even sure I could use a handbrake again!

[Quatrelle]

As Santana says, fully depress the clutch - it acts like a push-button on/off switch and seems at times to need the pedal pushed through the carpet.

I've certainly got used to mine and seldom have any problems.

[tony99]

I found that, with electronic brake on, depress clutch give generous blip of accelerator and release clutch. Always works for me.

[VwAdy]

also note..
if your door is not fully shut the auto brake will not disengage also not wearing you seatbelt...

when I collected my passat from new It took me 20 mins and left half my clutch on my drive trying to pull away to discover I left my door slightly open.:D

[Kaiser2000]

I've recently upgraded from an auto B5 Passat to an auto-DSG (with Auto Hold) B6 Passat. I've noticed as well that the car rolls back a little when moving off and on an incline - very annoying considering that this didn't happen on the earlier B5 I had, and when you have some idiot too close behind you.

I was going to ask here if there was some problem (especially given all the reported problems with the electronic brake), but I take it it's just the way it operates?

[Stuart W]

also note..

when I collected my passat from new It took me 20 mins and left half my clutch on my drive trying to pull away to discover I left my door slightly open.:D

Don't know about yours, but on mine if you leave the door open slightly and try to drive off the display tells you to "release parking brake" (ie use the manual release option) whereas it should be telling you to close the door!!

[BenR]

It's all about timing. Watch the lights for the other traffic flow (as you should anyway) and anticipate when your own lights are about to change. Into gear, then blip the throttle and briefly lift the clutch just as far as the bite point. The brake will grumble and release and you will be ready to move away the second you get the green light.

[Gaz_2005_Passat]

It's all about timing. Watch the lights for the other traffic flow (as you should anyway) and anticipate when your own lights are about to change. Into gear, then blip the throttle and briefly lift the clutch just as far as the bite point. The brake will grumble and release and you will be ready to move away the second you get the green light.

I find giving a little rev first then bringing your clutch up was the trick :beerchug:

[ionic]

I found the brake on mine a bit wierd at first.

Once you get used to it though it's no problem.

The 170 is a superb drive, & gives a nice howl when you give it some.

I'm considering a remap in the future to take it up around 210-220bhp.

My last car was a boxed Vectra 1.9 150, kicking out about 190bhp & 400+NM of torque. It was an absolute animal!

[mikecb1]

Many thanks to all those who replied to my post. Very helpful.

I'm now getting to grips with both the parking brake and the auto hold. After understanding the need to press the clutch hard down before selecting first gear, much of my remaining problem came from the pulling away technique I've used all my driving life (nearly 40 years). This is to depress the clutch, select first gear, set the accelerator an amount above idle appropriate to the incline of the road, then raise the clutch until the car is held before releasing the handbrake. Of course, this didn't work on the Passat on a hill, because as soon as I tried to set the accelerator the brake released, and I rolled back until I could catch it by raising the clutch. I'm now retraining myself not to touch the accelerator until the clutch has started to bite. It then all seems to work as Mr VW intended!

I'm still not as quick or as smooth pulling away as I would like, but I guess I'll improve with practice.

Mike

[jimgironde]

When I got mine new I took it straight to a supermarket car park and sat there trying out all the controls. I then wanted to move it a few feet so didn't put the seat belt on. Took a while to work out what was going on.!!

I find it very easy to use now but must admit to cheating whilst getting used to it on the odd occassion i.e., foot on brake and press the button to release it!!:biglaugh:

[Stuart W]

I find it very easy to use now but must admit to cheating whilst getting used to it on the odd occassion i.e., foot on brake and press the button to release it!!:biglaugh:

Since I regard my Passat as a long-term investment I was also using the button a lot of the time on the basis that this would put less stress on the clutch and other components.

However, now that I'm used to the brake and insofar as it usually releases without any obvious mechanical stress I've gradually moved to using the automatic release almost 100% of the time.

[DAMIENH]

Remember you must also have your seat belt clipped in.

Damien

[DaveNN]

I've had my motor for a week & done 1500 miles so far.
For a few days, the autohold/handbrake was a bit of a problem....mainly dropping back a foot before the autohold gripped the wheels. This isn't an issue BUT if you have a car parked up your chuff, it could create a brown trouser moment.:D
Anyhow, when I pull up, I re-apply the foot brake & this holds it perfectly.
I notice that the brake pedal will not move....& the car doesn't fall back at all, when pulling away!

I'm not convinced that this parking brake is no more than a solution to problem, that never exisited however!

[Philler Cap]

Having had my Passat for some 20 months, I'm pretty familiar with the foibles of the parking brake and autohold and, most of the time, have no problems. However, I have the DSG box and where I still really miss a traditional handbrake is when I'm manoeuvring in a tight parking space on a slope. Whatever technique I use, there's a tendency to either roll back or shoot forward, with an accompanying feeling of not being in complete control!

Someone suggested left foot braking might be the answer - I haven't really tried too hard but I'm not too happy about the effects on the clutch. Also, the way the clutch bites or releases with throttle position doesn't seem too predictable and there's always a lag between the two. A good old fashioned hand-brake would give the fineness of control required! Fortunately, I don't have to park like this very often, so I'm reasonably happy with the system!

[mrmitch]

Just to add a few points to this thread -

I too have DSG:D which I think gives the full benefit of the auto handbrake and auto hold - on a manual, I think there possibly are times when a 'normal' handbrake would give more control. (I still reach for the handbrake occasionally as an instictive reaction:Blush2:)

Firstly - for the Auto Hold function to apply the handbrake, the car must have reached a complete standstill - i.e. the wheel sensors detect zero wheel rotation. If you dont come to a complete stop the brake will not apply.

Secondly - when wanting to manouvre into a tight parking space (parallel parking) I switch the Auto Hold off, so I can hold the car on the footbrake and use the little bit of 'creep' in either Drive or Reverse to inch backwards and forwards. Otherwise, you need to touch the throttle to get the car to move and then brake almost instantly when in a tight slot! - I also turn the parking sensors off as they are beeping continuously in such circumstances (less than a foot clearance)

Thirdly - I still forget to turn the Auto Hold on every time I start the car and sometimes expect it to hold and it doesnt 'cos it aint switched it on:aargh4:.
It also switches itself off when you select Park and when you undo your seat belt ,I believe. So if you go back to Drive, or buckle up again without switching the engine off, Auto Hold needs to be switched on again - which you might not remember to do until you start creeping forward at the next set of lights:Blush2:.
Worst time is when you just want to jump in and move the car a few feet.
You have to remember to shut the door, put on your seat belt and that unless you switch Auto Hold on for a few seconds, it wont work. You could look a bit foolish so best just to take your time and not hurry;).

Finally, as you have to check it and remember to switch it on so often, it would be better to have the switch on the drivers side of the gear selector as it is blocked from view in my seating position . For RHD cars, IMO it should be swapped with the parking sensor switch , which I hardly ever use.

Overall, provided you remember to switch it on, and particulrly with DSG, IMHO it all works very well and adds significantly to making smooth, un-fussy progress through the miriad of unnecessary traffic controls on our roads that nobody asked for and that seem designed to create congestion rather than keep the traffic moving. If I ruled the world there would be a few changes...!! But in the meantime there is DSG+Auto Brake with Auto Hold:D.

'57 TDi 170 SEL Est DSG, Reflex Silver, 10k, "The Silver Machine" aka 'Ol' Red I'
Auto Glym Complete Valet Pack purchased and applied last weekend - Shiney!:biglaugh:.
Second Boot Hook on order with Dealer 'free of charge' (still waiting!).
Thule Aero Bars, 755 Feet and 2-off cycle carriers on order.

[Philler Cap]

I'd go along with MRMITCH's comments in general - the system does work well with DSG. The problem I mentioned with parallel parking only occurs where the slope is too steep to creep (e.g. when idling in forward, the car still rolls back). Under these circumstances, if you press the throttle a little too slowly, the brake releases and you roll back, but if you press it a little too quickly, you leap forwards - neither is great! :aargh4:

[Kaiser2000]

The biggest issue I have with it on my DSG/Auto Hold equipped Passat is how it rolls back when on an incline unless Auto Hold is enabled, especially when my 02 B5.5 Passat creeped forward even when on a slope.

The downside of using Auto Hold I find is the car jerks to a stop/start at very low speeds - eg: i was backing into a space yesterday and forgot it was turned on and the car just suddenly stopped with the accompanying grinding sounds rather than smoothly inch back/forward as it does when it's not turned on.

I also agree with the person who said the button can be hard to get to due to it's positioning on the centre console.

Seems like the whole parking brake button/auto holf is a feature for the sake of it rather than any genuine improvement, but maybe it's just me?

[small1971]

I’ve found the break will not disengage if the slope is too steep, be it going down or up hill, living on a steep hill this is a problem. The dealer has confirmed they can do nothing about it.

[jimgironde]

So what do you do?

[angus]

So what do you do?

In my case, make sure that next time I get a car in which basic safety functions such as brakes work, which means it won`t be another Passat.

I`ve had this problem for two years, the dealer acknowledges the problem but it is `within tolerances`(???), but living on the side of the Pennines, it ain`t funny.

You CAN get it to release eventually, but it requires you to red line it then slip the clutch brutally, and eventually mine will unstick. Unfortunately the turbo-lag and lack of bottom-end torque means I have junctions that I can`t hold it on the footbrake then just go straight onto the throttle and set off, a manoeuvre that is an utter doddle in the wifes B5.5 Sport.
Is auto-hold the answer? If it is it should be retro-fitted by VW, as the basic system is patently not `fit for purpose`.

[Quatrelle]

.......... The dealer has confirmed they can do nothing about it. That is ridiculous! What has the dealer 'confirmed' - another dealer's opinion? Have you tried another dealer?

Presumably it will not release if you just press the button to release it?

Ask VW for their comments on this. I'm sure they'll say 'Yes, it doesn't release on steep hills'.....

I don't think that among all the problems with the handbrake on this forum, anyone else has had that happen to them. If they have, hopefully they'll add their experiences.

Meanwhile, I'm going to find a steep hill next time I'm out in the car, just in case.:(

[angus]

Yes Quatrelle, they do release if you depress the footbrake and press the button.
On a `normal` hill that is not a problem, try it on a single track, one-in-three, blind hill junction with 5 foot high walls at either side (entering another steep,single width road) and you may understand the frustration.
It CAN be held on the clutch, but what price a clutch/ dual mass flywheel. and how often?

[Quatrelle]

It should release by just pressing the button if you are belted in. It is only necessary to depress the footbrake if you are not wearing the seatbelt. Well that's the theory. I'm sure mine does....

[angus]

The handbrake won`t release on the button unless the footbrake is depressed, resulting in the `Mercedes syndrome` on steep hills - you need three feet.

[Quatrelle]

The handbrake won`t release on the button unless the footbrake is depressed, resulting in the `Mercedes syndrome` on steep hills - you need three feet.Imo there is something seriously wrong with your car, not Passats in general.

Have you pursued this beyond your dealer, i.e. as I suggested above, with another dealer or VW themselves? This really does smack of 'They all do that, sir'. If the handbrake on all Passats did do that, I'm sure it would have come to light by now. The ability to hold the car on a hill is the reason why Passats are not allowed to be used for the driving test.

As a matter of interest, does it also not release when the car is facing down hill?

[angus]

No, the handbrake won`t release on the button unless the footbrake is depressed, it is designed like that and attempting to do so illuminates a green warning light on the dash ( a foot on a pedal in a circle).

Downhill? Dunno, never parked on a [I]really[I] steep hill, and because of the unreliability of the system only use the footbrake when going downhill even if stop-start. Sorry to anyone behind!

[Quatrelle]

I'm sure the last time my handbrake wouldn't release (I hadn't pushed the clutch pedal through the floor) I just jabbed at the button and it released.

I'll try it again tomorrow. I'll check for the green warning light at the same time.

Not sure who's helping who here....

[gamichea]

Quatrelle, I'm with Angus on this one. Today I checked my recollection of what happens and it was confirmed. Belted in, engine running, clutch in or out, the the green foot warning light appeared and the MFD displayed "Depress Brake Pedal". So unless french spec.is different sounds like you might have a (useful?) malfunction.

[Quatrelle]

Noo, checked mine out today, and it's the same as yours - which I suppose is an indication of how well it's been working - never noticed the green foot before!

[jimmyja]

I had the same problem when first getting my B6. I found I was putting my eletronic handbrake on but letting go of the brake on the hill too early; resulting in me rolling back a few inches.

Eletronic handbrake wont operate if the driver does not have a seat belt on or your door is open.

However, you can manually turn it off by holding your brake down and pressing the eletric brake button. This is important if you are in a tight spot, such as parking or dropping back out of your driveway.

When you are on a hill, I just press the accelerator and bring up the clutch at the same time. If i feel I am about to stall, just press the accelrator further.

If you do have a problem, take it to a local VW garage and ask them to check it out...you don't have to pay for it! :D

[Quatrelle]

Tried my handbrake today on a steep slope, it was a back street in our village, so don't know the gradient, and it worked fine. Tried it downhill and again it worked fine.

[Quatrelle]

Quatrelle, I'm with Angus on this one. Today I checked my recollection of what happens and it was confirmed. Belted in, engine running, clutch in or out, the the green foot warning light appeared and the MFD displayed "Depress Brake Pedal". So unless french spec.is different sounds like you might have a (useful?) malfunction.

This is an old thread, but had to dig it up again. Experimented this afternoon and did the following, four times - even without my seatbelt on.

Handbrake on, engage 1st, depress brake pedal and then quickly move right foot across to the throttle to start engaging clutch at the same time pressing the switch as you pull away as usual, - the MFD is saying 'depress the brake pedal' but in the meantime the brake has released and away you go. Hopefully that makes sense

This doesn't require any more dexterity than using a manual handbrake. It seems to prove that you don't have to press the brake pedal and the switch at exactly the same time - one after the other in quick succession does it and it worked on a slope.

Someone will now prove me wrong....:(

[gribbo]

Just wondering, and forgive my basic question...is auto hold available as an after market extra?? I have a 57 plated 2 litre passat 140 td estate. I expect that there will be a standard wiring loom under the blank plate around the gear stick mounting... is it just a simple as adding a switch...or is there an awful lot more to it than that??
thanks in anticipation.