MK3 - Cutting Out

[Dirty Grape]

Hello everyone,

Must excuse me. I'm a car novice and site newcomer.

I bought my first car, Mk 3 GL, just over a month ago. It has since been in the garage twice with a new starter coil, dizzy cap, rotor arm and crank sensor being fitted. Still it cuts out. Seems to do it when it wants. Can't see a pattern (apart from me getting angry when it does it).

I have no idea how to get the fault codes that some of you talk about and any advice I will go to the garage with (unless anyone is patient enough to talk me through the easier tasks step by step).
They can't seem to make it break down and all their diagnostis have told them the car is fine.
Any help/advice would be very grateful.

Thanks in advance.

[kenney]

What is your engine code?

[Dirty Grape]

Thanks for your reply.

Not too sure. I think it might be AFT (?). If this isn't right how or where can I find it?

Cheers.

[Crasher]

It needs a throttle body clean and reset but this requires a system that will also read the fault codes, you need to find someone capable.

[Dirty Grape]

Cheers for the idea.

Is this the VAG COM ive read about?
How easy is it to use?

[kenney]

Hi Can you give us a little more detail when you say IT JUST CUTS OUT,does this happen when your are driving normally and as if you have turned the ignition off it just stops????or does it stop on idle when you come to a set of lights or something,and it cuts out then????

[Dirty Grape]

Hi,

Again, thanks for the reponse.

It seems to happen when I'm going along, just driving normally, when the revs will drop and the engine cuts out competely(dashboard lghts come on like I have stalled it). The radio will still works but the power steering and engine die. I then have to sit patiently for a few minutes (anything from 1 to 15mins) when it just starts again after turning the key (it ticks but doesn't fire). Has happened mainly after about 5-10 mins from setting off on a journey. Has happened several times in one short journey and once or twice on lots of other short journeys (a bit reluctant to take it on big ones until problem is solved).

It has refused to start on 3 occasions after a quick stop filling up with petrol or popping into shops. When trying to restart it ticks over but doesn't fire up.

When ithappnsit wont bump start, either with a push or while I'm going along.

It's a 1.6 GL, 1997, 95,000 on the clock. I feel tha it is slightly sluggish when accelarating but have nothing to compare it to.

Really appreciate any input as the dealer that I bought it from has said that they will only swap it for something else but I love the car, apart from the problem.

Thanks again.

[kenney]

Hi If that is the case and you do have an AFT engine,On making up for a previous mistake this time i have done my homework,iam almost sure it is the current supply relay for Simos control unit.This relay is in position 3 on the fuse box it has either (30 109 288) on it.

[Crasher]

On making up for a previous mistake this time i have done my homework
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_206.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824YYGB)


30, part number 165 906 381.

[Dirty Grape]

Kenney, you may have just saved my sanity.

Few q's though.
What does the relay do?
How much will it cost to replace or can I do it myself (looking I would assume just pull it out and plug new one in)?

I seem to be missing a couple of other relays???? Is this normal????

Thanks, once again, for yur time.

[Dirty Grape]

Thanks foryour help aswell Crasher.

[kenney]

Hi The relay supplys the ECU with current,the soldering on the contacts have a tendency to crack with the result sometimes you have contact and sometimes not.As you say its just a matter of pulling out the old relay and putting the new one in.The relays that are missing are for equipment your vehicle does not have.

[Crasher]

The relay is £11.35 from a VW dealer.

[Dirty Grape]

Cheers for the advice everyone. I will order one and keep you updated.

[MK3GL]

Hi mate, I'm in Australia and have the exact same problem as you. The car just shuts off/cutting out and it seems to happen when it reaches its usual running temp. and also if I just make a short stop for fuel after only a short drive (5 -10 minutes) it wont start up again for a little while and when it doesn't start most of the time I can hear that the fuel pump isn't priming . I always know its going to start if I hear the fuel pump priming when I engage the ignition. Some of the time stalling (cutting out) and starting problems also seem to coincide with me having the stereo going. (Maybe coincidence or related??)
I have had the problem on and off for at least a year and in that time have had replaced:

- ignition coil x 2 (I think they did that twice over a period of 6-12 months)
- ignition switch
- brand new entire distributor including new leads and spark plugs
- and probably more than that but at first I admit to not keeping very good track of what they replaced
- also countless hours of labor and diagnostic costs which all came to nothing but a massive whole in my pocket.

I am dealing with an official VW service center now and they cant even get a fault to appear in their diagnostic tests because of the problem being intermittent by the time they get their lazy back-sides around to testing for faults the car is running fine again, in my opinion I have and am currently being absolutely ripped off by VW, it just cost me $1200(Australian) for the distributer, leads, plugs, labor etc. and no result!!!, then they tell me they cant find anything and then have the hide to charge me for their time, it might just be me but I thought that I was paying them to fix a problem and if the problem isn't fixed then why should I pay. "Sorry mate we did our tests but cant find anything, we don't know whats going on , so that will be $248 thanks." That is what I have to put up with from these thieves.

Anyway, I was hoping that you may have gone ahead with the advice given above and had a positive result? I would really appreciate it if you could let us know how you went? and any more advice would be more than appreciated.

Thanks, sorry for going on and on but I'm just so frustrated!!!

[kenney]

Hi the symptoms you have, are typical for a faulty current supply relay

[Crasher]

MK3GL, which engine code? AAM, ABS?

[Dirty Grape]

Hello all,

I had the throttle body cleaned and reset last week (it was clogged right up) and the car was running fine until last night, when it cut out as I pulled up to a set of lights.

I have ordered the ECU relay but apparently the wrong one turned up and I will have to wait until Tues before I can get it.
I will post again in about a week to let you know if it's worked.

To add to the problems I have noticed that the car feels like its about to stall when stationary. The revs idle at anything from 900 to 1000 but the car judders slightly, like its trying to stall. Any ideas?



Thanks for all your help guys and good luck MK3GL.

[MK3GL]

My engine code is "AGG" doesn't seem that too many people with this car have that exact engine code? BUT have the same problem.
Is the relay you are talking about the one mentioned earlier:
Relay 30, part number 165 906 381 ?

[Crasher]

The AGG engine was fitted to the Golf GTI 7/95 to 98, Passat 2 litre 7/95 to 12/96, Vento 2litre 7/95 to 12/97, and Golf 3 Cabrio 2 litre up to 2001. The ECU relay is, as you say, control group number 30 at position 3 and part number 165 906 381.

[MK3GL]

.

[MK3GL]

Thanks Crusher, I'll replace the relay if you think it could work, and let you all know how it pans out.

[Dirty Grape]

Ok,

I have the ECU relay fitted. I took the car out for a couple of hours and it is still juddering when idle. The needle seems to flicker between 900 and 1000 rpm.

Surely this is to do with the throttle body? But I just had it cleaned and reset! Could it be letting air in somewhere to cause this.

Please help me some more people. It's my first car and I don't want to have to go back to busses!!!!!

Thanks,
Dirty G.

[Crasher]

Have you disconnected the battery since the TB was reset?

[Dirty Grape]

Thanks for the quick response, Crasher.

Not disconnected the battery. Why?

[MK3GL]

Dirty Grape,
Was not the major problem the actual CUTTING OUT of absolutely everything mid-trip?
Other than the shuddering while idleing has the car shut of/cut-out whilst driving since you replaced the relay??
Mine shudders a little too but if I was able to get rid of the "cutting out/stalling" by replacing the relay I would be more than happy to worry about a small idling problem especially when it is just shuddering a little rather than stalling completely.
So, yeah, my question is did the replacement of Relay no. 30 stop the "cutting -out"???

[david b]

Had exactly same problem on Golf CL 1.8 last year, would run fine for 40 miles then cut out but restart after 30 secs , tried everything , turned out to be fuel pump in petrol tank!

David B.

[Crasher]

Not disconnected the battery. Why?

Disconnecting the battery loses the stored TB settings.

[jaybee]

Disconnecting the battery loses the stored TB settings.


Hey crasher, just wondering if this could apply to my prob froma previous post (copied below) and also if I have a oil breather pipe on its way, should I repeat this step when I have replaced that.....

I thought it was unlikely to be tb, more likely that the garage I bought it from told porkies when they said they had replaced the crank sensor, as if i keep the revs way up (by left foot braking) then it wont stall, but the minute they start to drop down it gives up the ghost and dies

(btw i only did this to limp home... way too dangerous for normal use!!!)

cheers jaybee

The woes, the woes,

Methinks that at some stage on the AGG assembly line in deepest darkest Germany Helmut's missus vas sleepink vit the zoopervisor und he decided to get his rewenge on all the poor saps who would buy these piece of sh!tz engines he vas buildink!!

To recap

3 Months ago stopped halfway through a 300 mile journey, car never started again, had it towed to local garage, spent two days trying to find what was wrong, finally started, he had done nothing to it so he charge me very little as he couldn'y say what was wrong!

Much tearing out of hair, had a shoofty on here, replaced relay no 30 (ecu)

All good, not a bother from then 'till on motorway on ramp at rush hour

foot down up to about 65, then nada, just like everyone else on here, waited 15 mins, theh she started up, managed to limp home by every time it stalled dumping the clutch as if I was getting a push start, and left foot braking the rest of the time to keep the foot on the throttle(if the revs are kept above 2000 she wont stall) hair raising stuff I tell you!!

Have cleaned the throtlte body, and have a new oil breather pipe en route, will also order a 167 Fuel Pump Relay.

The car has a new dizzy in it, and when I bought it 6 months ago the guy told me it'd just had a new Crankshaft Position sensor in it.

I'm going to trade it in soon, but I want it to be running for when I do, I can't afford to ever get stranded again as it cost me work (anyone had any experience with the Audi a3 tdi quattro...http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/Smileys/modern/huh.gif)

Meanwhile, does anyone know if it is normal for a relay to get warm when the car is running....??

My new no.30 (which is the grey made in germany one) is always warm when I feel it after stalling...

If this is normal I can get on with the other stuff, if not I need to find out why it's getting warm

Best of luck to all you 97 git (sic) owners out there may you never encounter this problem!!

[Crasher]

What is the problem with your car? I can't make head nor tail of that.

[jaybee]

What is the problem with your car? I can't make head nor tail of that.

sorry I may have been on a bit of a rant...!!!

it is suffering the "cutting out/oil light flashing" problem.... every time I have tried to use it over the past week. 3 months ago I replaced the ECU relay, and I have cleaned the TB. I was told when I bought it that the Crankshaft Sensor had just been changed.

symptoms.

starts perfectly with a smooth idle, no lumpiness or variation in revs. After ten minutes or so of driving, the engine starts to die, it will suffer a slight "cough" first, then fail totally (power steering off, rev counter drops right down) at this point if it does die I can dump the clutch and the engine will catch again and run for another minute or so. If I keep the revs right up it doesn't happen. To get it home I kept it in second the whole way.

when it does die it takes 15 mins at least before it will start again.

sounds like exactly the same problem as everyone else has had, I was really just trying to find out from someone in the know two things

1) might disconnecting and reconnecting the battery allow the ecu to "learn" that the tb has been cleaned and sort it out

2) should the no. 30 ecu relay be warm in standard operation



Hope that's clearer...!!!

Jaybee

[Crasher]

The ECU relay does get quite hot, disconnecting the battery will delete the learnt values for the throttle body that the ECU has managed to learn, it needs setting up with VAG-COM. Have you had another fault code read done? I imagine they used a cheap aftermarket crank speed sensor and these are notorious for causing trouble. One chap who regularly called me at work went though four before he had the car trailed to me. I fitted a new genuine sensor and that was the end of the problem. Part number 037 906 433 A £158.65.

[jaybee]

thanks for that Crasher.....


I was leaning towards the CPS in my head(it seemed to make most sense as keeping the revs up prevented the stall...

I'll get that checked (would it need genuine VAG-COM or would a multi-manufacturer computer read it just as well...???)

Jaybee

[Dirty Grape]

Dirty Grape,
Was not the major problem the actual CUTTING OUT of absolutely everything mid-trip?
Other than the shuddering while idleing has the car shut of/cut-out whilst driving since you replaced the relay??
Mine shudders a little too but if I was able to get rid of the "cutting out/stalling" by replacing the relay I would be more than happy to worry about a small idling problem especially when it is just shuddering a little rather than stalling completely.
So, yeah, my question is did the replacement of Relay no. 30 stop the "cutting -out"???

Hi there,

Only replaced the relay a couple of days ago. I t has not cut out since but I won't hold my breath. I only travel about 20 miles a day so will have to see.

[jaybee]

The ECU relay does get quite hot, disconnecting the battery will delete the learnt values for the throttle body that the ECU has managed to learn, it needs setting up with VAG-COM. Have you had another fault code read done? I imagine they used a cheap aftermarket crank speed sensor and these are notorious for causing trouble. One chap who regularly called me at work went though four before he had the car trailed to me. I fitted a new genuine sensor and that was the end of the problem. Part number 037 906 433 A £158.65.


Is that the kind of job I coudl do myself, or does it need a ramp, I know it's tricky to get at, being in a nook down by the engine mount (how many hours labor would you be looking at from a garage....???)

[Crasher]

It can just about be done from above, should take no more than an hour. Make sure the area is spotlessly clean before you start and clean the bracket contact surface with a flat blade screw driver (bung up the hole) before installing the new sensor.

[fuzzy_munky]

Hi guys,

I'm having the same problems as you guys by sounds of it, and reading what you been saying has sparked some hope, but then I found I dont have a relay at slot 3 or one with the number 30 on it.

I got a 1.8 ABS engine code 8v mk3 driver. was hoping maybe someone might be able to shed some light.

Ive changed the dizzy, dizzy cap, HTs, coil, spark plugs, seal uner the carb (old one had broken completely in half, yet the car ran well then and since being changed not at all now) Its completely dead in the water at the moment on my drive where I was lucky to get it.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

[Crasher]

The ABS engine doesn’t have an ECU relay. Start a new post for your problem.

[jst99]

Guys,

I have a 2L MK3 Cabriolet and it is doing the same as what all these guys seem to be suffering from: coughing whilst driving sometime resulting in a complete stall - being an auto I can't just dip the clutch at apply gas. If it does stop it will start straight away. Not sure if it does it every time but I have heard a relay clicking away whilst it has been struggling. I found a vacuum pipe that had perished - replaced that and seemed ok for a week or so but now the problem has returned worse than ever - has anyone found a definitive answer to this problem or is it a case of it could be the air flow sensor, ECU relay etc.

Many thanks for your help with this one as it is driving me nuts and is also worrying as it could be dangerous.

Oh - had it checked at my local garage and there are no fault codes stored

jst99

[Crasher]

Which year and engine code?

[jst99]

Which year and engine code?

Going to sound like a right newbie nOob now and say I have no idea what the engine code is as I don't know where to look for it :(

All I can say is its a 98 R plate 2.0L Auto cabriolet avantgarde.

I had a play around checking all of the connectors yesterday and since then it hasn't done it - that said it has gone 2 weeks before now behaving itself.

If you need to know the engine code, if you let me know where to look I will get my head under the bonnet.

Hope to hear from you soon :)

[Crasher]

That will be an AGG engine so from your description I would change the ECU relay (at position 3 on the fuse box, top row and third from the left and with "30" printed on top) and VW part number 165 906 381. If it still plays up after that it may be the crank speed sensor but I would recommend a fault code read first.

[jst99]

OK great I will try that first, I will order a relay this morning - My local garage (non VW) have pluged it in but there werent any error codes being displayed - thanks for your reply :)

[jst99]

Well the new ECU relay has arrived - and only £10 for an original VW part - very nice surprise :) Fingers crossed this will solve the problem - will update if it doesn't behave - thanks again Crasher for your help :)

[jst99]

Well I'm afraid to say it did it again this morning even with the new relay fitted - yet last night it did a 100 mile journey and was perfect - I wasn't driving it this morning, the girlfriend was, but apparently she could here a clicking noise - any other ideas on this one seeing as the ecu isn't displaying any fault codes?

Many thanks


jst99

[Crasher]

When it cuts out, does it do it as you are driving along in gear or when dipping the clutch as you approach a junction? Does it re-start immediately? Does the car have an aftermarket alarm or immobiliser?

[jst99]

It generally does it as the engine is slowing down - it’s an auto box but doesn’t seem to coincide with gear changes directly. It will always restart as soon as the vehicle is put into neutral or park.

It does have an alarm - I replaced it 2 weeks ago - the original vw (fitted by vw but not in the factory I believe) alarm stopped working so replaced it with a laserline unit - but the problem had been occurring long before the alarm was changed. It is only an alarm and not an immobiliser.

Look forward to your thoughts

jst99

[Crasher]

I forgot about the auto part, that does complicate matters. Have you had the throttle body cleaned and reset? Mind you, this relay clicking bugs me.

[kenney]

Hi Could it be the fuel pump relay you hear?

[jst99]

No as yet I haven't done anything other than change the ecu relay - from reading the posts could it be the mafs?? Seems strange there aren't any codes being displayed though - would have thought if something was falling over it would be logged - maybe the throttle body is the next thing to try - I know it means nothing but at the weekend when I was checking all the hoses and air filter fitment I did remove the air intake pipe and have a look in the throttle body and from what I could see it didn't look that gunked up - but it was a brief look

[Crasher]

No way is it the AMM/MAF. I think it is a dirty throttle body but that would mean it is stalling only, not cutting out as such. It being an automatic makes this much more difficult to diagnose.

[jst99]

OK - being an electrical engineer not a machanic is cleaning it something I can attempt or should it go to a garage to have it done??

Just in case it makes a difference the car doesn't always stop - it will recover if the accelerator is pumped repeatedly

[Crasher]

That sounds like a dirty TB. You can remove and clean it but you need a registered version of VAG-COM (or similar) to reset it.

[jst99]

Looks like a garage job then - by the time I get the software and lead it won't be worth it for one time use - anyone from the Somerset area fancy doing a clean and reset for me?? PM me with costs if anyone has the software ;)

Thanks again Crasher for all your help ;)

[jst99]

Well the throttle body has been cleaned out today and resetup - my local garage had the software so its just a case of wait and see now - not holding my breath though

[jst99]

:( :( :( Throttle body clean didn't solve the problem - fuel pump has been suggested - any other ideas??

[Crasher]

I can’t be bothered to look back, are you getting any fault codes?

[jst99]

No nothing being recorded - so my thinking is:

ECU or fuel pump - what are ur thoughts Crasher

[Crasher]

ECU almost never, fuel pump is a possibility but still very rare.

[Glyn Ivens]

Mine is also Mk 3 Avantegarde Cabriolet bought a couple of months ago. Car drives perfectly on W. Wales slow bendy roads. However, had to be AA'd back after first drive on Motorway last weekend. Repeatedly, only above 60mph, after 3 or 4 miles, engine cuts out, no revs on counter even though engine turning. only flashing oil lamp on. Had to either pull in to hard shoulder, or turn key off and on, (dangerous!), to restart. Engine is AGG. If this is happening to so many of us someone must know what's going on. Don't VAG keep a database of common probs with particular models? Help!

[vwgti06]

Hi -

I am also experiencing similar problems with my 2.0L golf GTi (Mk3 1998). Since I got the car last week its cut out a few times. Had it to the garage twice already. No fault codes logged although they did clean out the throttle body. This has not solved the problem as the car cut out twice today.

When it happens, revs drop to zero, engine power is lost, oil light flashed on one occasion... however when I have pulled over the car starts immediately again. It has done it a speeds varying from 50mph right to when it was idling in a traffic queue.

I'm taking it that the ECU relay is the next place to check?

Responses great fully received!

[Crasher]

Three common causes are coil, crankshaft speed sensor and ECU relay. The coil and ECU relay don’t leave fault codes so I would recommend the ECU relay first. This is at position 3 on the fuse box with the number 30 printed on top and has the VW part number 165 906 381 and costs about £12 from VW. If yours has a black case, then it is a good possibility this is the problem.

[Glyn Ivens]

I took the cabriolet, (2l, 8v, AGG), in on Monday to the local VW Audi Dealer in Aberystwyth for a fault code read and it came up with a crankshaft sensor fault. This was changed, (£250 ouch!), and I got the car back yesterday, and ok so far . If fault recurs I'll post again, but otherwise solved! (Thanks Crasher!)

[Crasher]

You have done it the right way, the sensors are available for about a third of the VW price but they are very unreliable and what you have had done carries a two year parts and labour warranty.

[vwgti06]

Thanks very much for the quick response. Its going into the garage tomorrow so will see what happens and keep you posted.

Cheers!!

[Scan22]

Hi all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me. I’ve got a MK3 Gti 16V and yesterday experienced this problem too. I was driving down the motorway and then the car spluttered and then cut out…lights on dash and loss of power steering. When I tried to start her again she’d turn over but wouldn’t start. I called the RAC who came out, he tested the Ignition coil by replacing it with a new one to see if this was the problem but it didn’t cure it. He then checked to see if it was sparking at the dizzy. He simply pulled the switch from the hall sensor underneath the dizzy, cleaned it sprayed it with some WD40 and it seemed to run fine.

I drove for another 30miles or so and the car did the same thing again, just totally cut out. The car was running fine up to this point. After waiting a while (30mins) I thought I’d try to start her again and she ran fine. So obviously the cleaning didn’t solve the problem, it seemed to but as I’m now aware if I leave the car for a while she will start.

I did notice that when the ignition is on after she’s cut out there seems to be a ticking. It’s the same tick that you normally hear when you turn the ignition on, which is the tick you hear before you hear the fuel pump engage. Although this ticking is not just the one tick you normally get but keeps ticking randomly. This doesn’t occur after I’ve left her for a while.

Thinking of starting with replacing the Dizzy cap to see if it’s just a connection problem. Any ideas?

Thanks

[vwgti06]

Hi - my car has been in and out of the garage a few times. The last time it was in they replaced the fuel pump and fuel pump filter I believe. This seemed to solve the problem. It has coughed once or twice but apart from that, it has not cut out again. I believe the time before when the car was in the garage they replaced the ecu relay.

[Crasher]

A dizzy cap won’t cure that and the distributor hall sender will not cause the engine to cut out, all it does is tell the ECU where number 1 piston is for enabling sequential fuel injection. Before you start guessing and throwing parts at it, get a fault read code done. This will probably show the engine speed sensor G28 as being faulty, this is also known as the crank sensor and is located on the front on the engine behind the front engine mount bracket and is quite awkward to change. A faulty ECU relay on an ABF engine will not cause the engine to cut out, just run rough. ABF engine speed sensor are very prone to failure, we did one yesterday.

[ardiandoko]

Hi all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me as well. I’ve got a MK3 1.6CL 1994 ABU engine and experienced this problem too, several times (no pattern as such but it happened 3 times over a period of a year). As I am driving the engine cuts out…lights on dash and loss of power steering. I then usualy pull over, wait for 3-5 minutes and engine starts again as if nothing has happened.

Any ideas?

Thanks

[Crasher]

Your car has diagnostic capabilities that you should make use of by having a fault code read done. For your symptom I would expect fault code “00515 Hall sender G40 no signal” or “Signal outside the tolerance” to be stored. Other common faulty components on your model that can cause this symptom are the ignition coil and the fuel pump but neither of these will store a code. The only way to deal with this is to replace parts one by one until it is cured or to wait until it completely fails and will not run at all. If no codes are stored, I would start by replacing the hall sender in the distributor or preferably the distributor itself, even if no code is stored. The distributor for an ABU was originally VW part number 030 905 205 AA but has now changed to 030 905 237 AX and costs £94 inc. VAT exchange from VW dealers. The hall sender itself is available from VW for £59 but it is quite tricky to fit when dealing with the fragile and irreplaceable distributor drive coupling and considering the genuine dizzy comes with a new cap, rotor and two year guarantee, fitting a replacement hall sender is stupid. Avoid aftermarket supplied recon distributors; I have had terrible problems with poor quality remanufactured units although from Bosch (under part number 0 986 237 669) I wouldn’t expect any problems but the price may be little less than from VW and the guarantee is only 1 year. If you do decide to buy a hall sender, there are two different versions depending on the build number of the distributor fitted to your engine.

[ardiandoko]

Hi Crasher,

As advised, I took the car to have fault code read but nothing was stored. Luckily the car failed to start while i was at the garage and the mechanic checked the distributor (as you suggested) which resulted to be faulty and replaced it with a new one and since then the car is running excellent. Thanks for your advice.

[smiffy vw]

my mk3 2.0 gti is doing the same starts n dies straight after, some times it will start and then you pop out and it dont start, rac said need to be cleaned and reset with comp, but reading all this post i dont think ill bother , wish i never broguht it and kept the polo

[Crasher]

Sounds like a 95 on model with an immobiliser reader coil problem.

[smiffy vw]

mines a k reg 93 with the standered vw alram on could that be the problem

[Crasher]

The alarm is a dealer fit part and they are usually OK. There are a number of possible causes for you problem such as hall sender, ECU relay, throttle potentiometer, dirty/faulty idle stabiliser valve and a few others. Even though the early 2E has very poor diagnostics it would still pay to get it read for codes first.

[smiffy vw]

to get all them problems done how much would it cost, am i better of stripping car for parts or sell as a non starter?

[Crasher]

You will get nothing for it; I pay about £100 for something like that. It depends on how much it is worth to you. You can’t approach a problem on a car by placing a limit on repairs tagged to the value of the car when it is that old, you have to decide if you want to fix it or not.

[r1mills]

mine had a similar problem for a year.
i replaced the ECU relay and relay 19 and it now works fine

[Crasher]

Relay 19? If you mean the one with 19 printed on top that is the windscreen wash/wipe relay or position 19 is the radiator fan air conditioning system relay.

[r1mills]

Relay 19? If you mean the one with 19 printed on top that is the windscreen wash/wipe relay or position 19 is the radiator fan air conditioning system relay.

my appologies, memory wasnt as good as i though
the relays are ECU relay 30 and fuel pump relay.

[Crasher]

ECU relay position 3 control number 30 and fuel pump relay position 12, control group numbers 67, 80 or 167.

[Lawler]

Had exactly same problem on Golf CL 1.8 last year, would run fine for 40 miles then cut out but restart after 30 secs , tried everything , turned out to be fuel pump in petrol tank!

David B.

Here we have sense. My Corrado was doing this last year and it was f*&$!%g frustrating! Used to cut out sometimes ten times on the trot during a half hour journey, I had to turn the ignition off and back on to crank the engine over whilst doing 80 most times. Happened when the engine was hot mostly, alot of the time after i'd been sat in traffic jams. After all it turned out to be the fuel pump. Odd as it seemed.

[Lawler]

Hi all,

I’m hoping that someone can help me. I’ve got a MK3 Gti 16V and yesterday experienced this problem too. I was driving down the motorway and then the car spluttered and then cut out…lights on dash and loss of power steering. When I tried to start her again she’d turn over but wouldn’t start. I called the RAC who came out, he tested the Ignition coil by replacing it with a new one to see if this was the problem but it didn’t cure it. He then checked to see if it was sparking at the dizzy. He simply pulled the switch from the hall sensor underneath the dizzy, cleaned it sprayed it with some WD40 and it seemed to run fine.

I drove for another 30miles or so and the car did the same thing again, just totally cut out. The car was running fine up to this point. After waiting a while (30mins) I thought I’d try to start her again and she ran fine. So obviously the cleaning didn’t solve the problem, it seemed to but as I’m now aware if I leave the car for a while she will start.

I did notice that when the ignition is on after she’s cut out there seems to be a ticking. It’s the same tick that you normally hear when you turn the ignition on, which is the tick you hear before you hear the fuel pump engage. Although this ticking is not just the one tick you normally get but keeps ticking randomly. This doesn’t occur after I’ve left her for a while.

Thinking of starting with replacing the Dizzy cap to see if it’s just a connection problem. Any ideas?

Thanks

Halt!! Don't..... Don't do anything... Leave the dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs, leads, fuses, fuel additives, engine cleaning additives, all that stuff. Go and get the fuel pump looked at. Seriously, I took soooooooo much advice relating to this topic last year from so called people 'In the know' (not dissing anyone here btw, there seems to be some good advice, the crank sensor advice was good&close) and in the end I went with my hunch. When I first bought the car I got a whirring sound on startup which was the, then new, fuel pump. After months of this ********, stopping and starting and basically getting all the problems you guys are talking about - the power steering going bye bye when negotiating a roundabout is always a good one to keep you on your toes- I noticed the funny whirring sound had stopped, and was now just a ticking sound.
Fuel pump......

Problem solved.

[kiedistidus]

im a total novice so i doubt any advice i give will help but is there a loss of power at all whilst driving normally? sorry if this has already been asked but i dont fancy trapsing through every post

[rossdunbar1]

1998 1.6cl golf cuts out after a few mins standing still in traffic etc.

what is the problem?

[Crasher]

1998 1.6cl golf cuts out after a few mins standing still in traffic etc.

what is the problem?

Hello and welcome to the forum. Can you start a new thread on this please and included your engine code and a little more, less abrupt, detail?

[smiffy vw]

crasher i was told to take my plug of the airflow sensor just buy the airfilter , and it would start well it does start now but if you leave it to idiel it will try n cut out n then it will just die , shell i buy a new airflow sensor?

[Crasher]

It would be a good starting point but only buy an AMM genuine from a VW dealer, I have had so much trouble with ones from other sources it has driven me to distraction. Even last week I was chasing my tail around trying to trace a fault which turned out to be a faulty AMM, even though the one on the car was a genuine Bosch part and only a few weeks old. Also you will now have an AMM fault code stored so I recommend you have the codes cleared.

[smiffy vw]

do i need to do the aam and the codes cleared for it to work, and how much you talking for a new sensor

[Crasher]

I think your car is an AGG engined Golf 3 GTI, am I right?

[smiffy vw]

ye it is

[Crasher]

A genuine exchange AMM is 037 906 461 BX and costs £96.94 from VW, don’t buy one from anywhere else. Then have the codes cleared and try it from there.

[smiffy vw]

ok bud cheers :Blush:

[Sturge]

I seem to be yet another one to add to the long list to fall foul of this one. Driving along quite happily, engine dies, would then restart. Progressively got worse so had to leave it a while to get it to restart. Then a cronic misfire got thrown into the mix. 30 marked ecu clicking like mad all the time when it's playing up. I've changed everything on the electrical side of things then gave up and handed it into a vag specialist. They changed every sensor, fusebox, relays even the harness and still no joy. Tried my parts on another car, worked fine, known working parts on mine, still died.

They've now given up with it and are returning it to me tomorrow unfixed.

Unless anyone has any other ideas it's getting stripped and weighed in next week?

Again it's a 96 8v gti

[Crasher]

Did you change the relay marked 30 and the ignition switch?

[rolfather]

What is the problem with your car? I can't make head nor tail of that.
i'm also having chew with my 98 gti(agg engine)I swapped the infamous ecu relay when mine was cutting out.sorted, until about 2 months later when it developed a flat spot when i put my boot down.decided to change the rlay again and noticed that it was very warm to the touch.i'm also wondering,is this normal.getting it vag com'd again tomorrow.

[Sturge]

Did you change the relay marked 30 and the ignition switch?

yup!

[Crasher]

yup!

Relay 30 does get quite hot, about 40°c typically.

If relay 30 clicks it is because its feeds are switching in and out so that means a failure of the earth at the relay plate (which would have many more effects which you would notice so that one is doubtful) or the ECU command has a problem. In my experience, that is usually down to a faulty crankshaft speed sensor.

[Sturge]

it's had 2 new crank sensors, 1 of them vag, and a known working 2nd hand one. Relays, fusebox and wiring all been checked and changed, earths checked and cleaned, ecu changed, dizzy, dizzy cap, rotor arm, plugs, leads, coil, ign module, all changed

[Jondarren]

Good to see this issue has everyone stumped, including me.

Experienced the same problems as everyone else recently:

Driving along normally.
Stalled on the freeway and doing 110km/h and just cruising at 50km/h.
Car stalls but i have full power.
Oil light and battery light come on.
Power steering fails.
Car won't start and just turns over.
Have to wait 5-15mins.
Eventually car fires up but runs rough and splutters.

I have a new coil ready to go in, the ECU Relay (No.30) is on its way to me, and i have a fuel pump relay (No.167) ready to swap too.

The car is a 96 VW MK3 Golf, similar to those here mentioning the same issues. Once i've swapped out the parts i'll let you know how it goes, but the thought of a fuel pump is interesting too.

Thanks

Jon

[Sturge]

Faulty fuel pump wouldn't cause the relay to power down though

[Crasher]

Does it have an aftermarket alarm or immobiliser fitted?

[Sturge]

Nope, all as it left the factory

[Crasher]

There has to be a simple explanation to this. Let’s start again at the beginning without rushing through what has and hasn't been done as they have obliviously missed something. First of all, is it generating any fault codes at all in the engine ECU and do you have VAG-COM of your own and do you own a multimeter?

[Sturge]

No fault codes no. I don't have VAG-COM but I do have a multimeter

[Crasher]

Pity, I would have liked to see the ECU’s perceived voltage supply as shown in Measuring Blocks 08. Would you be happy delving into the back of the ECU plug with the engine running?

[Sturge]

Not a problem as soon as I have the car back at the house, it's at work atm. When it's running normally or playing up? Let me know what you want and I'll probe away, so to speak

[Crasher]

Can you confirm it is an S chassis (wvwzzz1EzSKxxxxxx) and an ADY engine?

[Sturge]

1hzww Agg

[Crasher]

Ahh, A 98 tin top then and not a Cabrio, I am getting confused as to which car is which!

Check the voltages at the ECU plug from pin 1 (brown wire) to pin 8 (black white), 23 (black/yellow) and 38 (black).

[sniffingmoose]

Hello

Thought I would post my 1994 Mk 3 story which I hope may help others. The car started cutting out 3 months ago after running out of petrol. Car first cut out on way home from filling up with petrol. Had to have the AA relay home. The car ran perfectly untill it cuts out without warning.

The AA tested for spark and tested distributer all were O.K. AA mechanic Suggested Fuel pump relay. Got relay out tested it on bench. Relay O.K. Replaced fuel filter. Car still cut out. Called AA again to get me home. They started ithe car by squirting carb cleaner though throttle body. Mechanic said fuel starvation.

Car would only turn over but not start next day. Suspected Fuel pump but at £120 for the part I really needed to be sure it was the pump and not a dirty throttle body. Car was now worse as it would only start from cold after turning the ignition on and off and listening for the pump 5 times. Car then runs perfectly for about 3 miles and cuts out after pulling away from rounderbouts. Very dangerous.

How have I solved the problem you ask? Well the last time it cut out I wacked the fuel tank with a piece of wood. The car has run fine for a month now!

So have I a shocked the fuel pump into working? If the fault returns I think I better have it replaced.

[Crasher]

That will be a 1.8 ABS single point model then, they are prone to sticking fuel pumps on the 1 bar unit.

[sboxall@jewersd]

Hi had a similar problem with a vauxhall viva (that shows my age) turned out to be a fly in the petrol pipe. Under certain conditions the fly would be drawn up the pipe and stop the flow of petrol. Absolutely no ryhme or reason to it. I realise petrol feeds are different these days but may be worth a look.

[Crasher]

About twenty years ago a customer brought us a 79 Golf 1 1.5LS that would cut out every now and again. It was the usual rusty filler neck problem so we replaced it and cleaned out the tank as best as possible without removing it as the axle bolts didn’t look nice and I didn’t want to go down that route as removing the tank means dropping the axle. Anyway off he went and we told him to use some fuel system cleaner to help get any remaining debris through to the line filter and in those days we would take off the very course filter on the tank pick up as this blocked very easily. About a month later it started cutting out again and we could not find the reason, it drove me mad for weeks. In the end I took the plunge and dropped the tank and floating around inside was the little paper/foil seal disc from the inside cap of one of the bottles of fuel system cleaner he had used.

Because of this we replaced the course pick up with a flexi line and a Y piece to give it two pick ups and allow any debris to be drawn through to the in line fuel filter before the pump.

Anyway, the course screen on the pump of this car is very big and doesn’t easily become blocked.

[J-MacDub]

This looks like the thread for me, again it's an 8v 1997 golf gti which isn't cutting out but will not start at all.
Background - It has been sitting for over a year in the folks drive, got it moved to my new house and trying to bring it back to life.

Has so far had new plugs, leads, dizzy cap, rotor arm, ECU relay & Fuel pump relays.

Getting spark at all plugs and have had vag-com connected and had an issue with hall sensor position and thanks to a thread on here managed to adjust that with vag-com.

So still it doesn't start and i'm thinking maybe it could be the fuel filter choked ?
or maybe the pump has died ? although it does sound like it's priming when you turn the key.

Any help would be much appreciated

John

[Crasher]

How did you correct a G40 alignment problem with the engine not running, it is a dynamic correction? Or was it a G28 fault code? Is fuel being delivered to the fuel rail and if so, is it being injected? You can tell the latter by a smell of fuel from the tail pipes. The fuel pump on these is extremely reliable and I have never seen a completely chocked fuel filter on one of these. Check fuse 18.

[J-MacDub]

It was this
00515 - Camshaft Position (Hall) Sensor (G40)
And with using vag-com measure block 007 it reads the position with just the ignition on as i can see the readings changing when i move the distributor, does it need to be running ?
It sounds like it's priming fuel then can sorta smell it I suppose, dunno how to check tbh.
Checked through all the fuses the other day and all looked good but will give 18 another check.

Cheers for the help
:fing02:

[Crasher]

Yes it must be done at idle. Until it is running, all that is important is that the valve timing is correct and the centre of the rotor arm points to the notch on the distributor body top edge with the engine set at TDC number one. The engine will start and run even with the hall sender disconnected.

If you have a multimeter, check for power at the red wire of the injectors as the fuel pump is priming, or by jumping across sockets 4 and 6 at relay position 12 with the fuel pump relay removed.

[J-MacDub]

Aah ok, will double check the rotor arm lining up with the notch tomorrow but no multimeter unfortunately.

[Crasher]

You can buy a multimeter from Maplin for less than £10. This search is very very slow.


http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=multimeter&source=15

[J-MacDub]

hmmm, doesnt seem to be a notch on the dizzy or am i missing it, here's a pic

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/Jogort/Car%20stuff/DSC00717.jpg

[J-MacDub]

You can buy a multimeter from Maplin for less than £10. This search is very very slow.


http://www.maplin.co.uk/Search.aspx?criteria=multimeter&source=15


thanks, think I can borrow one this weekend for starters :)

[Crasher]

It is along this top edge, this is the best picc I can find on my work PC.

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/P1010006.jpg

[J-MacDub]

hmmm, didn't seem to be anything along there, will check again when i'm back at it this afternoon.
On the fueling front, it certainly seems like it's getting fuel, can smell it a bit at the fuel rail and with all the attempted starting the gauge has gone down.

[Crasher]

If you can smell fuel at the fuel rail, you have a leak. If trying to start the car has made the gauge move you should have fuel pouring from the exhaust. Have you taken the plugs out to check they are not soaked in fuel? If you take the plugs out and they are wet, you should clean out the bores with compressed air. Don’t crank the engine over with the plugs out and the bores full of fuel, this will spray fuel everywhere.

[J-MacDub]

Got a multimeter today for a fiver :D
Have had the plugs out a couple of times and they don't seem to be soaked although they are brand new and have come out a bit blackened at the tip.

It's not a strong smell at the fuel rail and dont see anything leaking.
As for the exhaust well it's broken so will have a look under the car to check for fuel.

Now that I have a multimeter, what do you suggest I check with it ?

Cheers again for the help :)

[Crasher]

Power to the injector rail on the red wire. Checking the earth pulse to the injectors from the ECU is beyond the scope of a cheap multimeter, it really requires an oscilloscope.

[Hudds]

Sorry. My problems stalling at idel so I've just found another thread for that and posted my problem there.

[J-MacDub]

Well, it's getting power to the rail and doesn't seem to be pouring fuel from the exhaust but that's bust so could be sitting in it.
Got a newish cat n middle & back boxes to put on and gave it a try today.
How the hell do ya get the old cat off :zx11:

Also, should there be this much smoke/fumes from the oil breather when trying to start ?

http://i197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/Jogort/Car%20stuff/th_a3e14b88.jpg (http://s197.photobucket.com/albums/aa30/Jogort/Car%20stuff/?action=view&current=a3e14b88.pbr)

[Crasher]

Can you do a compression test?

[J-MacDub]

Don't have anything to test with, seen a tool in local store but will have to wait til payday im afraid.
You think the engine's gubbed ?

[J-MacDub]

Even had a bash at pull starting it tonight with the other car, albeit on a very short piece of private road and it seemed less likely to start with that than it did just by key :(

[Crasher]

I didn’t like the amount of blow from the breather on cranking, it seemed excessive maybe indicating a blown head gasket into the oil return system or even a blown piston but it is difficult to know any more without a compression test. Have you ever had it running or did you get it like this?

[J-MacDub]

It ran perfectly for the 1st year, then a particularly wet day it seemed to get a bit spluttery and soon after was lacking power and needed a lot of throttle just to move.
It felt very like a problem the wife's car had when the CAT caved in and just choked the car so I put it off the road then as didn't have the funds for a new cat & exhaust (as it was all a bit on the rotten side).
It sat like that for over a year, it's payday the end of next week so i'll buy that compression checking tool and hopefully it won't be bad news.

I've had a head gasket go on a car before and when that was running it was like a fog machine out the exhaust, this was nothing like that when it died.

Cheers for all the help too :)

[Crasher]

When the head gasket goes on one of these engines, it can blow across two cylinders as in the picture or blow straight out into one of the water galleries or into one of the oil return galleries and so generate a lot of crankcase fumes. Your car has the MLS (Metal Layer Shim) type head gasket so it does not look like this but they do still blow. Do a compression test and see what figures you come up with. The procedure is roughly

1) Well charged battery
2) HT circuit disabled by disconnecting the coil power plug
3) Fuel pump circuit disabled by removing relay 12 (167 printed on top) on the lower right relay plate position.
4) All plugs out
5) Foot to the floor on the accelerator
6) Crank the engine over until the gauge stops rising

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/048headgasket-blown.jpg

[J-MacDub]

Ok, I'll go through this next week, cheers again for the help and I hope it's not gunna be fatal :(
What kind of figures should I be looking for on the compression test ?

[Crasher]

Between 10 and 14 bar ish.

[badfish53]

Hi Everyone

Im a bit new to Golfs and to this forum, so forgive me if I put my foot in it! so to speak.

Im looking for some help with a starting problem onmy sons 2lt gti. The problem seems very similar to those in this thread but not identical.

Its been running fine untill he crossed a level crossing and the engine cut out in very much the same way many of you have discribed in this thread.

After some time he managed to restart the car and got it home but now it will not start again.
We found some of the ralays and fuses loose in their holders but have pushed them all home.

The starter will run and while the key is held in the start position, the engine fires happly but dies as soon as the key is released.
Fuel can be smelt at the exaust, and the battery is fully charged.

He has changed the coil pack but this has made no differance.

Occasionaly the engine will engage and run but soon dies and then refuses to pick up again.

Any clues would be helpfull

Many thanks

Kevin

[Crasher]

Sounds like a 95 to 98 8v GTI. Normally this will be either a faulty crank speed sensor or a problem with the factory fitted (invisible to you, you will not know it is even there) immobiliser. It may also have an aftermarket immobiliser or alarm which you will be able to see and this is also a possible source of the problem. The first thing to do is get the car to a garage (or a mobile mechanic out to the car) for a fault code read of the engine ECU and the immobiliser.

[badfish53]

Thanks for your reply Crasher.

I had a feeling it might be one of the more expensive components that is a fault.

Any sugestions for a good reliable techie who knows their way around these motors in the Grantham area?

Kevin

[Crasher]

If you are that close you may as well bring it to me but we are booked up two weeks in advance at the moment.

[badfish53]

If you are that close you may as well bring it to me but we are booked up two weeks in advance at the moment.
Sounds like you are busy...
We will try and get the fault codes read and get back to you as soon as possible.
If the rpairs look more complex than our meagre spanner skills can cope with we will book it in with you
Where in Notts are you?

many thanks
kevin

[Woodj]

Hi all
I am suffering similar problems to what has been mentioned.
I have a Mk 3 1.4 golf M reg (94-95 i believe, but i could be wrong), and to be honest i know very little about it.

I had been learning to drive, and got this golf all sorted out, went through the MOT perfectly, so i was driving with me parents to get some extra practise hours in. It was then when it developed the fault, so i assumed i'd made a mistake as i was still learning. Then it did it for dad as well.

Im not really sure what was happening, as it had no rhyme or reason to why it was cutting out. Sometimes it would go after 5 mins of driving, sometimes after about 1 and a half hours. After it cut out, it wouldnt restart for a while. Sometimes it restart after about 5 mins, while others i would have to wait about 45 mins for the car to decide that its willing to go again...

Unfortunatly, at the time i was not able to get the problem sorted, as ididnt have a reliable income and couldnt afford the bits and pieces that i assumed would be requiired.

Now i have an income, and so i can afford what is needed..

if anyone has any suggestions for me, as to what could solve it, i would greatly appreciate it. Especially as i passed my driving test yesterday, and im really lookin forward to driving, but i dont dare untill i have a solution, as the car is somewhat tempermental at the moment, and i really dont want to deal with this on my first solo drive.

I hope this makes sense to at least 1 person who can help, and sorry about the life story involved.

Thank you

[Crasher]

Sounds like you are busy...
We will try and get the fault codes read and get back to you as soon as possible.
If the rpairs look more complex than our meagre spanner skills can cope with we will book it in with you
Where in Notts are you?

many thanks
kevin

Kevin, Just outside the city centre (on the north side), just off the A610. I used to travel backwards and forwards to Peterborough almost daily so A1 junction A52 takes about forty minuets typically.

Woodj, I recommend you get a fault code read carried out and the most common fault on the ABD code engine (what your car will have) is an electronic switch inside the distributor called the Hall sender. The best way to deal with this is to buy a genuine VW replacement exchange distributor from a VW dealer and these cost £106 for part number 030 905 237 BX. Don’t let anyone talk you into a cheaper pattern or reconditioned unit for less, I have nothing but trouble with them (one yesterday) and the VW part comes with a two year guarantee. The new distributor will need setting up with a timing light but also with the engines computer having been put into a special mode called Basic Settings and this has to be done with a diagnostic computer system

[lilster]

Hi! Been reading through this thread for a while now .. ;-) ... and yes i have the same problem!

Car: Bog standard 1993 mk3 (on a K reg) 1.4 CL petrol manual (approx 140k on clock)
Problem: Few weeks ago (after new down pipe .. don't think it has anything to do with it but thought i would mention) driving along when engine reaches normal op temp or approx 15miles, revs drop to 0, oil light flashes, car splutters. First few times this happened if you kept your foot down on gas you could drive through it. Last time on M42 more of a problem, then when i nearly got to work cut out whilst queuing in traffic (revs dropped and seem to be idelling around 600, usually 1000), wouldnt restart for a couple of mins so i made it to work. Then on way home fine!

A VW friend of mine tried a bypass to the temp sensor to see if that cured it, but no & couldnt find anywhere on this model to plug into a VAG COM. He;s also just cleaned all sensors up .. but he's not convinced!

On this model is it usually the ECU relay?

Any help greatly appreciated ... i love my golf!

[Crasher]

The ABD engine does not have an ECU relay but it does have diagnostics, there are two 2 pin plugs above the ash tray behind the switch blanks, a system VW stopped using in 1994 when they went over to the OBDII style 16 pin plug above the cigarette lighter. I would expect that to be either the distributor hall sender or the fuel pump.

[towtalsa]

I have a 99 mk3 Gti 2.8 and I was have the exact same problems to the T. Random cut outs.

It turned out to be the engine speed sensor.

I was told that there wasn't an error code for this but that is not true for I ended up buying my own coder reader. Maybe it's just for my car since it's newer.

It was easy to change and under $100 for the part.

[towtalsa]

I forgot to mention the problems I was having.

Car would start fine and randomly cut out completely. Dash lights would come on (full power) and the starter would turn over no problem. I would let it sit for 30 to 60 minutes and it would start perfectly. Then after 5 to 10 minutes of driving it would happen again. I don't know what years and makes have them but it was most definetly the Engine Speed Sensor which in my car is located at the bottom front side of the motor inlined with the flywheel. Easy to change. I didn't need to jack up the car. But like I said mine is a 99 mk3 gti VR6 so things may be different for yours. Good luck.

[badfish53]

Hi All
Havent been on here for a while.

The problem we had with my sons 2lt gti turned out to be a faulty ignition switch and or imobiliser. We had an auto sparky look at it and he fitted a new switch and bypassed the aftermarket imobiliser. Apparently the ignition switch on these cars is a regular problem and can give symptoms very like much more complex and expensive component breakdowns.
Hope this might help some of you with your problems.

I think I'll stick to my type 2 camper

Kevin

[lilster]

Thanks Crasher, very useful. I think the fuel pumps working you can hear it (a little noisey!) so i'll start with the hall sender at the weekend. Sorry to ask another question but do you know if you can just change the hall sender or do i need to replace distributor?
Lil

[Crasher]

The hall sender is VW part number 030 905 065 B and costs £60 from VW but is also available from Bosch under part number 1 237 011 124 plus a few other companies as well. I only buy a genuine VW exchange unit distributor when I get a car with this problem as it comes complete with a cap and rotor plus a two year guarantee and costs £95, part number 030 905 237 AX. It will need to have the ignition timing set in Basic Settings mode so you will need something like VAG-COM as well as a timing light. As you would not be charging yourself labour it may be cost effective to change the hall sender but they are fiddly to do and you can damage the distributor if you are not careful and then you would be stuck with a broken distributor, a useless new hall sender and no distributor to hand back as an exchange for a replacement.

[lilster]

Hi, i found a friend of a friend at a VW dealership, we tried to run diagnostics but VAGCOM wouldnt read anything i.e. no feed from the car. So, can i still change the distributor if we can't get the cars ingnition timing set in Basic settings? Can it be done manually?

I think i might start with the fuel pump after all! The VW dealer mentioned coil or temp sensor (as well as fuel pump and distributor!) so may swap these too.

[Crasher]

You can’t set the distributor accurately without accessing the ECU. It could be that the inability to access the ECU is the problem, can you PM me the cars reg number? Parts swap diagnostics is a bit like Roulette, no guarantee off winning and it can cost you dearly.

[lilster]

you are a star! reg is K28 HCH

[Crasher]

That is a 93 model registered 1st Jan 1993 and it has the ABD engine so it has reasonable diagnostic abilities. You must get a fault code read done first to see if it was their reader or a fault with the car. You could throw money and parts at it and the problem be a simple wiring fault.

[lilster]

ok will head back to VW and get them to check again ...

[lilster]

Finally my golf played up just at the right time ... i'd found a new garage to take him too and i'd just pulled up! He ticked over fine but then wouldn't start so mechanic checked ignition and no spark, so ruled out fuel related problems. Just about to check hall sender when he started up and idelled perfect (sods law) so narrowed it down to coil or distributer, changed coil yesterday (cheaper/easier option to start with) ... i've done over 100 miles since and fingers crossed he's good as new!

Thanks for all your words of wisdom guys ... great forum!

Merry Christmas!

[Scan22]

A dizzy cap won’t cure that and the distributor hall sender will not cause the engine to cut out, all it does is tell the ECU where number 1 piston is for enabling sequential fuel injection. Before you start guessing and throwing parts at it, get a fault read code done. This will probably show the engine speed sensor G28 as being faulty, this is also known as the crank sensor and is located on the front on the engine behind thee front engine mount bracket and is quite awkward to change. A faulty ECU relay on an ABF engine will not cause the engine to cut out, just run rough. ABF engine speed sensor are very prone to failure, we did one yesterday.


Just wanted to say thanks for your help in diagnosing the problem. I took it to a garage and the Crank shaft speed sensor was tatters...Absolutely F'd! Replaced this and all seems to be running fine no problems.

Thanks again Crasher

[Elle77]

Hi there,
i am a new member and have been reading through all of these posts in the hope I could find an answer. I know they are old but hopefully someone may be able to help.
My daughter has purchased her first car, a second hand 2000 vw golf cabriolet automatic. It only has 84,000 kms.
We drove it for about 2 weeks and the engine just cut out while driving, like it just died. Once rolled over to the side, it starts up fine. This seems to be an intermittent problem as she can drive it for 1 week and it won't happen and then it could happen 3 times in 10 minutes. Sometimes it just cuts out while in park. We took it to be serviced by a VW dealer and they told us there was an immobiliser code issue. They told us the transpondering key was damaged and needs replacing. So we used the spare key and the problem continued. We took it back and they replaced the vacuum hose as they appeared to be perished on the fuel side. Then hooked it up for diagnosis and a new code came up that there was a problem with the O2 sensor. They replaced this oxygen sensor, cleared the codes, road tested and all ok. ($660 later)
Since then, the car has been doing the same thing, sometimes while driving the revs drop and it bumps around a little like it has just about stalled and then picks up again. Yesterday (2 weeks after the service) the car cut out again while driving, my daughter pulled it over and it started up again. So the problem hasn't gone away. Another strange thing is sometimes the radio switches stations and the buttons stop working on it while driving, then all of a sudden it works again. (I am not sure whether this is all related, electrical fault?)
my brother in law has an automotive shop and am happy to purchase what is needed to have it fixed but quite lost as to where to start?
i worry about taking it back to vw as I think because I am a young woman they will just keep taking me for a ride! And I want to know my stuff!
engine number AGG205891
i hope someone can offer a suggestion

[itavaltalainen]

Does it has a factory fitted car alarm? If yes then take the control unit out (sits behind light switch), take it apart and resolder the joints. Then there are some joints (large ones) that can hit the plastic housing..... I would recommend drilling holes in the plastic so the joints are clear and don't touch the plastic.

If it does not have car alarm take out relay 30 and 187 (ECU relay and fuel pump relay). Open them and resolder joints on those too.

I would also suspect the ignition switch (the electrical part), they are prone to go with certain age. This is made worse by adding 50kg worth of keys to your key chain that all dangle and wear the lock out....

If it is not any of these then have a look at crankshaft sensor - and check it's wiring too.

Will be one of these things. I'd start off with resoldering alarm control unit and relays (as it's very cheap).

[Crasher]

What infuriates me here is that the dealer suggested it was something to do with the immobiliser, that is not possible with the factory fitted transponder system as once running you could cut the top of the key off, throw the part with the chip in it away, and the engine will continue to run.

Yes, ignition switches on the Golf 3 are very unreliable BUT when these fail, causing the car to stop, you get a clue in that the dash shuts down, no lights or gauges.

The AGG engined Golf 3 cabrio does have a group number 30 relay at position 3 on the relay plate (see the diagram), upper main section, third from the left, VW part number 165 906 381 and the symptoms described match a problem with this relay perfectly. The relays are located just above the fuses under the dash on the right hand side above your right lower leg, behind a plastic cover. The relay is easy to change and in the UK is £18.42 so knowing OZ VW spares prices, it is probably about $200.....


http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/ECSIIIrelayplate.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/ECSIIIrelayplate.jpg.html)

NOTE. Positions 13 to 24 are supplementary add on positions that may or may not be occupied according to vehicle specification.

[Glyn Ivens]

I had a similar problem years ago with a Cabriolet with AGG engine. I can't remember the fine details except it would cut out randomly - dangerous particularly when cornering at any speed! I took it to my local franchise, paid the money for a computer diagnosis, and a defective crankshaft sensor was flagged up. Changing this solved the problem. Hope this helps.

[Crasher]

Yes it is very much still a possibility, as it the coil but a G28 sensor does not tend to let the car fire back up again immediately and the coils tend to just die and that's the end. It is very annoying when you finally cure a typical VAG engine with a new G28 in that very often they do not register as a fault code. The almost identical ADY engine in the Sharan was really bad for cutting out due to a faulty G28, especially when wet.

[Elle77]

Thank you for your replies, the car has now been sitting over at VW (10 days ago) they have found a coolant leak and are replacing the thermostat housing and gasket to fix the leak. They said they'll call this stage one. I am going to see if this has fixed the problem. In the mean time I'm going to price the relay 30 as you suggested crasher. I will keep you posted.

[Elle77]

Ok, so we have the car back! They replaced the thermostat housing to fix a coolant leak. (Stage 1) Then they said they noticed a problem with the crank shaft sensor and replaced this too. They said they have road tested and haven't been able to get the car to fault. Seems like good news so far.
I have bought a new ecu relay (no 30) which should arrive tomorrow and not sure whether to just replace this just to be sure or whether to wait and see if the problem has been fixed. What do you think?
I have the weekend coming up and have the opportunity to change this relay, Is this an easy task?
Because this is an intermittent problem the car needs to be tested for a while. I am so glad we didn't go down the track of buying a new transpondering key as it could possibly have been the crankshaft sensor all along or still even perhaps the ecu?

[Crasher]

The relay only takes a few seconds to change so it would be interesting to see if the G28 crank speed sensor was the issue. The Siemens Simos ECU never goes wrong in my experience.

[Elle77]

I received the relay in the post today. I ordered the 165906381 but I am unsure whether they have sent the correct part.
On the outer packet it says
Australian Fuel Injection
REL9004
Relay Fuel Pump
VAG 5PIN
On the actual relay it says
KRACKER
24.5200.10
>PA6.6-GF30<
I have copied a pic of it below. Please excuse my lack of knowledge but is a relay fuel pump the same as an ecu relay? and is the correct part for an AGG engine?
28184

[Crasher]

That looks correct, they make the original which is part number 24.5200.00 but they list both for the same application so I think it is that the 25.5200.00 is the VW correct look light grey cased version.

[Elle77]

I just thought I'd touch base and let you know problem is fixed!
Thank you for your suggestions.
I replaced the ecu relay and crank shaft sensor and haven't had another problem with the car at all. It hasn't cut out once! Because I replaced both I am not sure which one fixed the problem. But was one or the other or perhaps even both. It makes me realise that you can't rely purely on your mechanic unfortunately, if I had not done my own research I doubt they would have fixed this. Thanks again!

[Crasher]

I would suspect it was the really if it was a black case version made in the Philippines, they are the ones that gave the most trouble.

[Monkeyking]

I have an N reg Golf 1.4 ABD that is intermittently cutting out while driving (twice in three months) Once it has cut out it will fire up for about two seconds and then cut out again, the engine will rev up (until it cuts out) On both occasions the RAC scanned the car and it has logged a fault code "17978 engine control unit blocked" The car went again both times after the battery had been disconnected for about ten minutes. I stuck an ignition switch on it after the first failure as I heard they were problematic but it has faulted again. If anyone has come across this before I would really appreciate a pointer. If anyone has a wiring diagram and or a function description for the engine and immobiliser that would be great as well.

[Crasher]

The 17978 code will not cause it to cut out whilst driving BUT will cause it to cut out just after starting , so you may have two separate faults. To deal with the cutting out whilst diving I would suspect the hall sender in the distributor as the number one suspect and after that, the coil.

[Monkeyking]

Thanks Crasher

I plugged it into a mates vag.com and couldn't see anything running out of spec in the actual values, sorry measuring blocks (bit of a VW noob) Wiring all looks good, so I will have to plump for a distributor. Has anyone come across the other fault in conjunction with a cutting out fault or by itself. Because it clears after disconnecting the battery I am leaning towards a ecu fault unless someone has seen it before? It's starting to sound expensive, the distributor is £207 from VW. Are there any aftermarket ones that are worth using or avoiding.

[Crasher]

The distributor for yours, 030 905 237 BX is long gone from VW, no UK stock or from Classic. The only one I would opt for non genuine is from Bosch but this is about to be discontinued. I checked with Andrew page Ltd and they have two in the company at approx £130 each exchange but you would have to negotiate the actual price with the depot you bought it from. The Bosch number is 0 986 237 674.

[Monkeyking]

Cheers Crasher

I managed to get a Bosch one locally so I will stick that on and see how she goes.

[Crasher]

Remember that the ECU has to be put into Basic Settings mode 00 before you use a timing light to set the timing at 6 degrees BTDC.

[Monkeyking]

I put the distributer in November last year and no problems since. All hail Crasher!!!

[Crasher]

:o:Blush::Blush2:

[amad]

My Golf Mk3 used to cut out. I took it to lots of places and got a lot of theories as to what it could be. no error codes showed up. searching on the net, i found lots of helpful people who had replaced relay #109. It cost me £10.61 about 10 years ago. Never cut out since. It is very dangerous as it cut out on the M1. Hope this helps people. Amad.

[Crasher]

The only petrol engined Golf 3 to use a 109 relay was the pre 96 VR6. Other petrol Golf's 3's with an ECU relay are the 2L 8 and 16v and the later 100PS 1.6 but their relays were Control Group 30. The other Golf 3 models to use a 109 are the TDI and SDI. A 109 relay (1J0 906 381 A) is now £23.30 from VW, that's low inflation for you!

[Paul ST]

Hi, my son has a 1995 Mk3 Cabriolet with the 2E ADY engine since about 6 months. It's got 208k kilometres and has been well maintained.
Last week the car stopped abruptly and he had to be towed home. Since then I (we) have been looking into what's going on with the Golf and on the net. I have restored numerous older vehicles and my son is a 3rd year mechanic apprentice so we know about cars so to speak.
I have completely read this thread (going back 8 years!) and there is a ton of great information. Here's our story:
The car will shut off, either while parked or on the road without notice. Figured it was an ignition problem when things just shut down.
Today I warmed it up for 20min, shut it off and if wouldn't restart. Just turned over but no ignition, no sputtering. Waited for 5 to 10 minutes and it started again.
Had it revved to 3000 rpms and it quit. Later when it quit again it sputtered while restarting, so I played with the throttle a bit and it fired up.
Seems the problem might be fuel related but my gut feeling is ignition or something in that area. Cooling fan will go on and off with no effect so don't think it's related to temp.
New parts include distr cap and rotor, sp are not old, sp and ht wires seem fine. I have a multimeter but no vagcom or obd tool (yet).
Not sure what to start with....
I have seen from the forum that the major culprits are numerous including:
engine speed sensor, ECU relay, coil, fuel pump, fuel relay, temp plug, immobiliser, throttle body etc........
Any advice as to my situation greatly appreciated.
Cheers PS

[Crasher]

You need a fault code read, if there is a code great if not then you have to decide on the most likely culprit that won't leave a code which is the ignition switch, ECU relay, coil and possibly the crank speed sensor. A faulty ignition switch will be quite random and may give you clues such as odd warning light behaviour, the ECU relay will cut, die and come back 10 minutes later leaving you non the wiser, a coil will normally die and that's it, a crank speed sensor normally plays up when wet and sometimes leaves a code, but not always; see where I am going.... come in number 30 your time is up!

http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/image0351_zpsipbz8pjr.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/image0351_zpsipbz8pjr.jpg.html)

[Paul ST]

Thanks for your advice crasher. I can see from lots of posts that you have tremendous experience. I replaced relay 30 and 167 but unfortunately the car is still cutting out in the same manner. Maybe I'll find an ODB scan\reader under the Christmas tree, Santa knows what I want/need!!
Question: is there a factory immobiliser on this model? or all golf3's?
Thanks again for your time and expertise.
PS

[Crasher]

I can see from lots of posts that you have tremendous experience

You would think after doing this for 40 years I would have had the sense to retire by now... 1995 saw the introduction of a factory fitted EU mandated immobiliser on all new cars BUT this will NOT be your problem, this only acts as a start prevention device and will not cut the engine when it is running. With the 30 relay done (the fuel pump relay rarely fails) then I would next look to a fault code read, the G28 crank speed sensor could be the cause and may or may not leave a fault code but it could also be the ignition switch and this will NOT leave a fault code. The sender in the distributor will not cause this, you can unplug this (the G40) and the engine will keep running so don't interfere with that.

[Paul ST]

forgive my ignorance but when you say ignition switch, are you are referring to the actual physical ignition cylinder where the key goes into or are we talking about some sort of electro coupling, relay related device?

[Crasher]

It is a pity I did not take a picture of the one we did yesterday. Under the barrel inside the steering column lock unit there is a plastic bodied switch, to access this you have to remove the wheel and column covers and take off the lock unit after removing the spline adapter which requires a puller.

[Paul ST]

Well it looks like the problem was the crank speed sensor as no problems since it has been replaced. (only 3 days but still...) According to my son it was a "pain in the ****" to get at because of the location and motor mount etc..that had to be removed first. "No pain no gain" as they say...
Thanks again crasher for your generous help and expertise. This forum is truly a great place for information and support!
Best

[manc]

I had this problem too and it turned out to be a worn out ignition switch sometimes making and breaking contact, making starting the car like starting the plane in The Flight of the Pheonix and also cutting out on dual carriageways at speed.

This will never show up on diagnostics as it was mechanical.

[Crasher]

like starting the plane in The Flight of the Pheonix

Don't you think the original with Jimmy Stewart was far better than the lame remake?

[Col]

Don't you think the original with Jimmy Stewart was far better than the lame remake?

Yes, an all time classic.

[Craigo1992]

Hi everyone first time i have ever posted but i really need help i am a mechanic myself but am well and truly puzzled😣 here is my headache i have a mk3 golf cabriolet 97 engine code AGG ive not long had it and done a fair bit of work for its m.o.t (witch it now has) but i cant drive it keeps cutting out when at temp then leave it to cool down starts again every time it does this it brings a code up 00515 witch is hall sensor intermittent! Thats what snap on scanner says but i have changed it and its still doing it and bringing up the code? Help!! When it cuts out just splutters then dies even if i try keep revs up doesnt do anything i have no warning lights on to tell me there is a fault runs good untill hot i just cant work out y its coming up with the code every time it cuts out its really annoying me now i just want to drive it 😤 can anybody help me please!!!

[itavaltalainen]

Crank sensor?

[Crasher]

Yes it certainly could be the G28 crank speed sender as these never seem to leave a fault code and give exactly the symptoms you describe. A point on the G40 cam position sensor, these only provide the ECU with the position of number 1 and you can disconnect these and the engine will start and run normally to the point you cannot tell until around 5000rpm so they will never cause the engine to stop.

[Craigo1992]

Thanks for fast reply I have changed the hall sensor in the dizzy thats what the scanner come up with 00151 but its inly intermittent could it be the ecu relay? Does mine AGG have and my sensors that would bring that code up? Everytime it cuts out when hot its brings code back up with the new hall sensor ive not worked on these engines before

[Craigo1992]

I shall defo get right on to that! Location? Thanks for your fast replys

[Craigo1992]

Also would this give me the code 00151 if it was the crank sensor?

[manc]

Also would this give me the code 00151 if it was the crank sensor?

Have you tested that you're not getting a spark when your engine cuts out? I would try another HT coil on the car as they can be seriously flaky on the MKIII

[Craigo1992]

Hi am trying a few things today i shall keep u informed on what ive tested i still dont understand if the scanner keeps telling me its hall sensor if was coil would it bring up the same code as i keep getting i have a freind with the same car so hes coming today to swap a few bits over see if i can solve this headache thanks people ill keep use informed its defo heat breaking up because soon as i leave it 5 10 mins it starts again longer i leave it the longer it runs

[Craigo1992]

Ive just took it out again and when it cuts out the rev counter is going mad like its running out of fuel and the number 18 fuel relay? Is clicking like mad when it starts to die still bringing up the same code 00151 but i no its not the hall sensor and coil and the fuel relay coz ive jyst changed them and still doing it could it be the pump?

[Crasher]

Think about this logicaly. The rev counter gets its signal via the ECU from the engine speed sensor (AKA crank sensor) which is called a G28 and the fuel pump relay is triggered by the ECU using the rpm pulse, it is quite clear that the G28 is faulty and it has been a well know ADY/AGG problem since the late 90's in the Golf 3 right through until VW stopped fitting the AGG to the Sharan in 2003'ish. The sensor is on the front of the block and below and to the cars left of the oil filter behind the transaxle mount bracket. The cable often cracks and lets water in. As I said, the G40 hall sender problem is nothing to do with the cutting out, you could take the G40 out and throw it over thee wall, put the cap back on and the car will still start and run fine. The distributor needs setting up using the diagnostic measuring block screen which I will show you a screen shot of tomorrow at is on my work PC. Then again search this forum upto a decade back in Golf 3 or Sharan under "G28" and you will find numerous posts about this where I have described the set up procedure.

[Craigo1992]

Thanks for your help! Quick update today i changed a few things coil, leads, ecu relay fuel pump relay, checked ignition switch the guy i bought it off told me he had a crank sensor a year ago it looked new but was leaking oil past oring abit i typed part number on google and the garage he had all work done has put a 15 pound sensor in it a aftermarket 1!!! Ive only just seen comment about crank sensor i just thought it couldnt be that if it was fairly new so i have ordered a crank sensor hopefully this solves the problem thanks guys