I'm Back On LPG!!

[blicky_1]

Hi All,

As some of you may have read a few weeks ago my A4 was being fitted this week with LPG (previous Merc had it)

Well it's done and it's back!! Loving the £26 fill-ups again :p

Will report back with consumption figures after a few miles (won't take long as I do around 30k per year!)

[MCCLATCHIE]

Hi I am thinking at going to lpg
was it expensive and how long to get it fitted have you any pictures.

[blicky_1]

Hi I am thinking at going to lpg
was it expensive and how long to get it fitted have you any pictures.

£1495+ Vat installed in 4 days, no pictures yet but no muct to see TBH, tank is in spare wheel space, filler just left below petrol filler, switch next to gear lever and additional parts under the hood.

Just emptied my first tank, 290mls for £27 :D (and that was an expensive one at 54.9ppl, usual is 49-51ppl) That was a mixture of town and motorway driving.

Petrol was £62 to fill and did 350-400mls.....

[adamss24]

Why on earth you did not get an older shape passat b5 with the 110 Bhp and run it on vegetable oil ? You could get friendly with your local fish and chips shop and you could have fuel for free, as they have to pay to get rid of the waste oil ! All you have to do is filter the oil with a funnell and replace diesel filters more often ! That will be running for free !

[blicky_1]

Why on earth you did not get an older shape passat b5 with the 110 Bhp and run it on vegetable oil ? You could get friendly with your local fish and chips shop and you could have fuel for free, as they have to pay to get rid of the waste oil ! All you have to do is filter the oil with a funnell and replace diesel filters more often ! That will be running for free !

:biglaugh:

3 reasons: -

1) I hate the clatter of a derv!

2) Using chip shop oil on the road is illegal as no road duty has been paid, also I drive all over the country so would have to be friendly with a lot of fish & chip shops or carry a lot with me! :D

3) I don't like Passat's

[adamss24]

Its not illegal to use veggie oil for powering your car on the road, is tax free for 2500 litres per year, all you have to do is tell the taxman ! Also, i have a 2.5 tdi a4 quattro that will give your 1.8T a good run for the money and i bet it will be quieter on the motorways as well as the engine is revving less plus it will constantly do high 40 Mpg regardless of how i drive it and will do 600 miles on a tank full ! Diesels are only noisy on tick-over and in first gear, then you cannot tell them apart !

[blicky_1]

Its not illegal to use veggie oil for powering your car on the road, is tax free for 2500 litres per year, all you have to do is tell the taxman ! Also, i have a 2.5 tdi a4 quattro that will give your 1.8T a good run for the money and i bet it will be quieter on the motorways as well as the engine is revving less plus it will constantly do high 40 Mpg regardless of how i drive it and will do 600 miles on a tank full ! Diesels are only noisy on tick-over and in first gear, then you cannot tell them apart !

Ahhhh I was not aware of the 2500 ltrs tax free, even so that would not be enough for me covering over 30k per year, in LPG terms that is 50 fill-ups (50ltrs a time) I fill up over 100 times per year @ 50ltrs per time.

As for 'yours will give mine a good run for its money' I quite happy with 190bhp (or is it PS?) thanks I dont need it any faster. Running on LPG makes a petrol engine quieter so I doubt very much a derv would be quieter on motorways, none that I have been in recently anyway (and I can leave it on tick-over and use first gear with it being quiet!)

Also when looking for my car s/h dervs were around 1-2k more to buy so the conversion to LPG as I see it is free, also lots more petrol cars out there as everyone 'seems' to want a derv for some reason :confused:

I have been running LPG for 3 years (over 100k miles) and have been very happy with it, my post here was to inform members of an LPG users experience (as it's not that well known about) don't get me wrong mate derv's have thier place but are just not for me, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

Ohh and my hands never smell of derv :D

[paul b]

The only reason I wouldn't run on veggie oil is because it'll make my car stink!
Paul

[Evo141n]

I've done a wee calc on this, comparing LPG to Diesel.

Could someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Doing say 10,000m per year a diesel at 50mpg and £1.10pl would cost £990
LPG doing 24mpg at £0.50pl would cost £937?

So what are the pro's and con's if they cost roughly the same to run?

And how will converting to LPG affect your road tax as the 1.8T in at around 225g

Cheers Iain

[blicky_1]

I've done a wee calc on this, comparing LPG to Diesel.

Could someone correct me if I'm wrong?

Doing say 10,000m per year a diesel at 50mpg and £1.10pl would cost £990
LPG doing 24mpg at £0.50pl would cost £937?

So what are the pro's and con's if they cost roughly the same to run?

And how will converting to LPG affect your road tax as the 1.8T in at around 225g

Cheers Iain

Not sure how you worked it out but consider the car is approx. 2k more to buy, this would need to be added to you figures - the LPG conversion.

In practice a derv works out more expensive to run (not sure on 10k though) believe me I have tried.

Do you get a constant 50mpg though on mixed driving? coz I never did only on motorway miles.

Lpg cars have very low emissions compaired to derv/unleaded, I have just returned my V5 to DVLA to be updated, even if I get a reduction it will only be around £15 per year so nothing to shout about.

Like I said it's not for everyone but those who do high miles it is.

[Evo141n]

You said yourself that the derv was roughly £2K but a conversion to LPG would be £1750 inc the vat. so I basically canceled these out.

I don't know if you get 50mpg from the diesel as I don't have one. but it seemed a good guess (anyone got a better approx mpg?)

Is the 24mpg correct for the 1.8T?

It's just very interesting as I was about to buy a 1.9tdi, but your sollution seems very good, the power of the 1.8T (190bhp)but the economy of the 1.9tdi(130bhp), for as far as I can work out the same outlay (give or take a few £100).

Will it add much to insurance costs?

Thanks Iain

[bora(ing) nick]

Isn't some of the power lost using LPG??? 50 mpg is an average i'd say... steady driving ;)

HTH

Nick

[Evo141n]

As far as I've read there is no power loss just a 5-10% loss in fuel economy over the petrol, but at half the price at the pump that can't be bad.

Iain

[blicky_1]

You said yourself that the derv was roughly £2K but a conversion to LPG would be £1750 inc the vat. so I basically canceled these out.

I don't know if you get 50mpg from the diesel as I don't have one. but it seemed a good guess (anyone got a better approx mpg?)

Is the 24mpg correct for the 1.8T?

It's just very interesting as I was about to buy a 1.9tdi, but your sollution seems very good, the power of the 1.8T (190bhp)but the economy of the 1.9tdi(130bhp), for as far as I can work out the same outlay (give or take a few £100).

Will it add much to insurance costs?

Thanks Iain

I would say 50mpg from a diesel was on a good run not around town, not sure on the mpg on the 1.8T on LPG (maybe you can work it out - £27 = 290mls @ 54.9ppl) with mixed driving.

No additional costs for insurance (well not with Direct Line) but you must notify them and also DVLA.

No power loss on LPG at all.

If you are anywhere near Andover Hants I would be glad to give you a test drive :beerchug:

[dansansome]

I would say 50mpg from a diesel was on a good run not around town, not sure on the mpg on the 1.8T on LPG (maybe you can work it out - £27 = 290mls @ 54.9ppl) with mixed driving.

No additional costs for insurance (well not with Direct Line) but you must notify them and also DVLA.

No power loss on LPG at all.

If you are anywhere near Andover Hants I would be glad to give you a test drive :beerchug:

my maths makes that a shade under 27 mpg

[blicky_1]

my maths makes that a shade under 27 mpg

Sounds about right as running unleaded is around 34mpg (ish)

[Evo141n]

Ok changes
LPG doing 27mpg at £0.50pl would cost £848?
How about the diesel avg of 50mpg (£990)

Anyway I cant see a huge amount of differance in the cost, so what other factors like drivabilty, handling etc 1.8T 'v' 1.9tdi (sports)?

Iain

PS (I'm fancying the avant quattro versions myself) Any problems with the quattro rear diff limiting the LPG fuel tank?

[Evo141n]

Petrol was £62 to fill and did 350-400mls.....

34mpg! with your figures above is that not more like 30-26mpg (ish)

But as I say there's still not much in it cost wise between LPG and diesel.

And I recon the cleaner option of LPG/petrol woul dbe the better way to go.

Iain

[blicky_1]

Ok changes
LPG doing 27mpg at £0.50pl would cost £848?
How about the diesel avg of 50mpg (£990)

Anyway I cant see a huge amount of differance in the cost, so what other factors like drivabilty, handling etc 1.8T 'v' 1.9tdi (sports)?

Iain

PS (I'm fancying the avant quattro versions myself) Any problems with the quattro rear diff limiting the LPG fuel tank?


No expert on the 1.9tdi but the 1.8T drives as it did on petrol.

LPG tank in the spare wheel well (I guess the avant has one here)

For me not having the clatter of the derv, the black clouds of smoke, the costs when they go wrong and my hands not smelling of derv is worth it! (IMHO)

I suggest if poss you test drive each car, appreciate you cant test drive a 1.8T on LPG but on unleaded will do as it's the same. Also find a local LPG installer and have a chat with them, they should also be able to sort you out a test drive and switch between unleaded & LPG so you can see there is no difference.

[blicky_1]

34mpg! with your figures above is that not more like 30-26mpg (ish)

But as I say there's still not much in it cost wise between LPG and diesel.

And I recon the cleaner option of LPG/petrol woul dbe the better way to go.

Iain

As an average I ment, the week I run those figures I was around town so would be more on the run.

I still think 50mpg is high for a derv, I can see it being that on a motorway but not with mixed driving. The derv I was using to test for a week (Merc C220cdi) was showing 42 max on the computer but was usually high 30's around town.

[blicky_1]

What we need is a derv driver to post his/hers fill up cost and how many miles to that tank they get.

As I see it i'm getting 1 mile for just under 10p (even better when the company pay 40ppm!!)

[MalcQV]

Interesting post, thanks for the info Blicky. I like you am not a big fan of diesels and although the A4 looks better the Passat is not bad :D

Not something I am considering as I only do 13k a year, but thought LPG was just something you did to V8 Land/Range Rovers.

[blicky_1]

Interesting post, thanks for the info Blicky. I like you am not a big fan of diesels and although the A4 looks better the Passat is not bad :D

Not something I am considering as I only do 13k a year, but thought LPG was just something you did to V8 Land/Range Rovers.

Exactly my reasons for posting, not enough people know about LPG/Autogas (not that it is any form of big secret) I think it got a lot of bad press in the 80's and early 90's when they were using the older single point systems with unreliability problems but now as technology moves on at a rate of knots multipoint systems are reliable and to us in the 'club' would no be without. There are lots of Range Rovers/Land Rovers out there as this is where LPG estabilished itself, next time you are on the motorway look out for a RR/LR or even an X5 and see if it has and LPG cap on it, I bet you will see one or two I know I do all the time!

Btw I have no links to selling LPG systems just incase any one wondered!! I am just a user who loves the system and the cost savings associated with it and just wish to pass on my experience to others, at the end of the day it is up to each individual what fuel system they choose.:drive:

[paul b]

I see many Volvo's with LPG caps!

[onzarob]

I've been thinking about this more lately and when i bought my Audi i could of got a 1.8T passat estate with less miles and better condition for less than my diesel or any other diesel with more miles and scrapes.

I think LPG conversions maybe a way forward to get a low mileage car at low cost, but make it as economical as a Derv engine car:D

[blicky_1]

I've been thinking about this more lately and when i bought my Audi i could of got a 1.8T passat estate with less miles and better condition for less than my diesel or any other diesel with more miles and scrapes.

I think LPG conversions maybe a way forward to get a low mileage car at low cost, but make it as economical as a Derv engine car:D

Yep exactly what I thought, got my 1.8T for around 2k cheaper that a derv model and there are loads about in good nick as everyone wants a derv!

[mark*s]

What we need is a derv driver to post his/hers fill up cost and how many miles to that tank they get.

As I see it i'm getting 1 mile for just under 10p (even better when the company pay 40ppm!!)
I run a 1.9 TDI on about 20% Biodiesel, 80% Petrodiesel which averages to about 99p a litre which at 45mpg (10mpl) figures to about 1m/10p. About the same then?? Personally I like the smell of my tractor.

[onzarob]

I run a 1.9 TDI on about 20% Biodiesel, 80% Petrodiesel which averages to about 99p a litre which at 45mpg (10mpl) figures to about 1m/10p. About the same then?? Personally I like the smell of my tractor.

you've got to admit that its a great way of getting a petrol engine car onto a level playing field and if you can buy them cheaper it has to make sense.
:D

[Marco34]

Interesting reading, thanks for your posts Blicky. With regards to the 'derv' why the word derv... I assume diesel but don't understand it :confused:

Anyway, my car genuinely gets the following mpg.

Around town, commute to work typically 43mpg.

Mixed, but mostly town, will be anything from 45-48.

Mixed but with mostly rural driving I get in the 50s.

Mostly motorway at 70-80 I can get late 50s early 60s... Nice weather etc.

Marco

[blicky_1]

Interesting reading, thanks for your posts Blicky. With regards to the 'derv' why the word derv... I assume diesel but don't understand it :confused:


Acronym - DERV
Definition - Deisel Engine Road Vehicle

:beerchug:

[nemeth782]

Where did you get yours done?

I'm completely confused looking at the available systems!

Wanting a conversion on a 2003 Bora 2.8 V6 4motion...

[blicky_1]

Where did you get yours done?

I'm completely confused looking at the available systems!

Wanting a conversion on a 2003 Bora 2.8 V6 4motion...


I have mine done at Woking, Surrey by Dualfuel Systems.

http://www.dualfuelsystems.co.uk/

Just make sure you use a LPGA approved installer!!

[danclyon]

What we need is a derv driver to post his/hers fill up cost and how many miles to that tank they get.

As I see it i'm getting 1 mile for just under 10p (even better when the company pay 40ppm!!)

Since I got my B6 1.9TDi Multitronic Avant Sport (2004) I can comment to the following:

From a brimmed tank to the "refuel" warning.
Round town miles (mostly <50mph) - lowest 460miles, average 485miles
Atypical motorway mix (~70mph) - lowest 540 miles (heavy load), average 700 miles, best 780 miles!!
Fast motorway (>80mph much of the journey) average ~ 650miles
pretty constantly.

I regularly do Newmarket to Swindon, Newmarket to Ipswich, Newmarket to Surrey (M3) as an example of the longer journeys.

I will admit the fuel guage plummets and the worst tank I've got is <400 miles - but that was lots of start/stop stuck in traffic on the M4/M25/A1 when it took me nearly 5 hours to get back from Swindon with lots of sitting in accidents - but that's some indicative figures for you anyway.

Cheers,
dan.

[blicky_1]

Since I got my B6 1.9TDi Multitronic Avant Sport (2004) I can comment to the following:

From a brimmed tank to the "refuel" warning.
Round town miles (mostly <50mph) - lowest 460miles, average 485miles
Atypical motorway mix (~70mph) - lowest 540 miles (heavy load), average 700 miles, best 780 miles!!
Fast motorway (>80mph much of the journey) average ~ 650miles
pretty constantly.

I regularly do Newmarket to Swindon, Newmarket to Ipswich, Newmarket to Surrey (M3) as an example of the longer journeys.

I will admit the fuel guage plummets and the worst tank I've got is <400 miles - but that was lots of start/stop stuck in traffic on the M4/M25/A1 when it took me nearly 5 hours to get back from Swindon with lots of sitting in accidents - but that's some indicative figures for you anyway.

Cheers,
dan.

Many thanks for the info we just need to know how much in £££ it costs you to fill up..

[danclyon]

Many thanks for the info we just need to know how much in £££ it costs you to fill up..

A pretty predictable 65l when the DIS moans about fuel - at whatever the pump price is....atm here it's 114.9ppl - so ~ £74.70... I got £75 in yesterday but had driven about 10 miles between the warning and hitting the station.

Hth,

Cheers,
Dan.

[audipersempre]

I have used LPG for a few years now although not currently. My observations for what they are worth:

Diesel and petrol cars obviously drive differently, torque, power band etc etc. I just prefer driving a petrol car and couldn't really get to like the way a diesel engine drove. But that's just me!

There is a slight power loss using LPG but it is barely noticeable especially considering LPG is often fitted to higher powered fuel guzzling cars.

Supposely it's about 80% as efficient as petrol when burn't.

I converted a Rover 827i with the Honda V6 myself (when you could do that!) and later had an all bells and whistles injection system fitted to a Grand Cherokee 4 ltr.

LPG is the most environmently friendly mass produced car fuel. It's also better for the engine and oil lasts longer before becoming contaminated. It was possible to remove the catalytic convertor from the Honda V6 and it would pass an MOT test when running on LPG.

IIRC it's also higher octane than petrol at around 101!

The systems are very simple and require little maintenance.

There is a suggestion that your petrol tank will split open in an impact way before the LPG tank will.

The Jeep had the tank slung underneath but I lost the spare wheel well in the Rover which is a bit of a disadvantage.

Not always possible to be creative with the position of the filler cap to avoid cutting a hole in the body. I did manage it on the Rover but the filler was low down under the bumper mounted on a bracket and was a bit of a pain to fill up!!

Filling stations. Still not as many around as I would like.

Uncertainty about what the Government may do with tax on LPG in the future? Maybe we should keep the benefits of LPG a secret. The more users there are the more revenue the government will see!!

I am pretty sure I will get the 2.7T converted during this year.

[MATTYBOY C]

Hi, as far as i am aware some tax benifits for lpg are due to end this year so i am sure the cost of lpg will rocket, when have you ever known anything cheap for the motorist atay cheap!! stick to deisel excellent fuel returns and other than the take off keep up with most thing in their class.

A4 AVANT 130 TDISPORT :biglaugh:

[onzarob]

Hi, as far as i am aware some tax benifits for lpg are due to end this year so i am sure the cost of lpg will rocket, when have you ever known anything cheap for the motorist atay cheap!! stick to deisel excellent fuel returns and other than the take off keep up with most thing in their class.

A4 AVANT 130 TDISPORT :biglaugh:

I can't believe that diesel is being taxed higher when it does more MPG. Green tax my backside, it revenue raising grrrrrr:mad: so I reckon LPG will soon join in:aargh4:

[blicky_1]

I can't believe that diesel is being taxed higher when it does more MPG. Green tax my backside, it revenue raising grrrrrr:mad: so I reckon LPG will soon join in:aargh4:

Diesel might do more mpg but LPG is 'greener' agree they will raise tax on LPG at some point but for now it looks as if we are safe :p

[onzarob]

Diesel might do more mpg but LPG is 'greener' agree they will raise tax on LPG at some point but for now it looks as if we are safe :p

I agree with you, I've got the Audi deisel so will stick with it. I'm just about to get a Honda CRV for the Wife/dog/2 children and I'm planning on going LPG:D

[blicky_1]

I agree with you, I've got the Audi deisel so will stick with it. I'm just about to get a Honda CRV for the Wife/dog/2 children and I'm planning on going LPG:D

:D I've got the CR-V but it does not do enough miles to warrant LPG, saying that it might come to it!

[AKKERS]

Am thinking of having my old 2.6 coupe converted, where did you have your conversion done, am in Southampton myself.

I can see all the benefits of cost savings, but am concerned about damage to the engine - i've read of some horror stories. You've had an lpg before as well, what are your views of the risks?

[blicky_1]

Am thinking of having my old 2.6 coupe converted, where did you have your conversion done, am in Southampton myself.

I can see all the benefits of cost savings, but am concerned about damage to the engine - i've read of some horror stories. You've had an lpg before as well, what are your views of the risks?

DualFuel in Woking Surrey, they are great.

No damage, it's all talk (maybe there was some in the early years before multipoint injection but that was 20 years ago!)

I have covered over 100k miles in a Merc and so far 20k miles in the Audi on LPG, NO problems at all.

[audipersempre]

Agree, have never seen or heard of any damage during my time with LPG. Two cars, 5 years and around 50k miles. One of them was a single point system and the other a multi point.

The only problem I ever recall form the distant past was explosions in air intake boxes with the old single point systems. IIRC it manifested itself mostly on Land Rovers although that was probably because 99% of LPG use at that time was on Land Rovers!!

I just had a quote from Gastech for my 2.7T A6 at £2,200. I am sorely tempted to get it done but with Xmas looming it may have to wait a while.

[grothy]

I have an A4 Cabriolet 3l which I put onto lpg 14 months ago. I now get a lot of "hunting" both on and off LPG and when I accelerate there is a jerkiness which was not there before.
Kosher job by British LPG based in Wembley. Certificate of course. Really disappointed with the problem.
Grothy

[RodCouncil]

I'm considering an MY04 S4 Avant and doing an LPG, any thoughts? is it worth it on the V8?

[paul b]

I'm considering an MY04 S4 Avant and doing an LPG, any thoughts? is it worth it on the V8?
At the current price of fuel yes, but...

Surely your buying the S4 for its speed? With LPG you lose a bit of horsepower and mpg, but the loss of mpg is offset by the cheaper cost.

[blicky_1]

I have an A4 Cabriolet 3l which I put onto lpg 14 months ago. I now get a lot of "hunting" both on and off LPG and when I accelerate there is a jerkiness which was not there before.
Kosher job by British LPG based in Wembley. Certificate of course. Really disappointed with the problem.
Grothy


If it's hunting on and off LPG it's not an LPG related fault, get your engine codes read, sounds like a MAF or something simular??

[MCCLATCHIE]

If it's hunting on and off LPG it's not an LPG related fault, get your engine codes read, sounds like a MAF or something simular??


I have been running on my system for over a year fitted is an ITALIAN BIGAS KIT all runs well. The gas ECU runs off of signals from your car
signals from the injectors nertral wires these run your gas injectors.
My system does not reqiure conections to the oxegen sensors.
If you have any wiring problems on the gas side the system should just switch back to petrol. Get all wiring and contacts checked.