Remapping advice

[troutmask]

I've recently bought a mk5 tdi 140PS and, after reading through these forums, think a remap sounds a splendid idea.

So, a couple of questions:

1. Has anyone used http://www.angeltuning.co.uk/ before? Fairly local to me and quoted at £300, which seems reasonable. I live in Berks, near Newbury, so if anyone has any alternative suggestions please help.

2. When you come to resell, do you advertise as remapped? Maybe I've missed it but I've been watching the autotrader (just bought my tdi) and remapping never gets mentioned. Sounds like a plus to me to include in the ad. Is it just that not many have done it?

Thanks for any help

[BlackSmoke]

I have never used angel tuning but looking at the prices they seem a bit high - for a remap to mine (2.0 TDI 170) their site is quoting £475 - I had it done for £200 less !!

Regarding re-selling, apparently mention of re-mapped makes VW ******** a little bit cagey if you go for a trade-in and they don't like to mention it when they re-sell !! .... A re-map suggests (not always correctly) that the car has been tuned a bit so it's been driven hard and not looked after. Also - if you mention a re-map, you'll probably be limiting your target buyers as only a small amount of people will know about them and will think of it as a good thing.

[Wazza_G]

Have a look here: http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=27861

[troutmask]

thanks for advice. remap booked in for friday so I hope it's all it's cracked up to be.

right now, do i tell the insurance.....?

[RSTuning]

I would tell the insurance, they WILL find it if they need to.

[mjom89]

im running this one through my head. wanting to get the remap but do you tell them and if so what the sort of percentage increase likely to be??

[Wazza_G]

I'd like to have mine done too, but you've hit the nail on the head, will the cost of the remapping & possible savings on fuel, be dwarfed by a massive increase in insurance premiums!

[KeithS]

I'd like to have mine done too, but you've hit the nail on the head, will the cost of the remapping & possible savings on fuel, be dwarfed by a massive increase in insurance premiums!

I would have thought that a remap on e.g a 140 would give it similar power to a 170, so the insurance premium would change from a group 13 to group 16.

Or does it not work this way? I guess the best way to find out is ask your insurance company...

[RSTuning]

Some insurance compaines will allow upto 30% i think and charge only an admin fee!

[troutmask]

but how exactly are they going to find out?

i believe you can do a checksum comparison on the ecu but check it against what? - I believe there are many ecu factory set ups so what do they check against?

and do insurance companies check the ecu on every totalled vehicle?

and if they do, there's no date stamp so just say you didn't know about the remap (if you don't buy new), because how could you know?

currently i'm planning on keeping quiet unless i can be convinced that i'm seriously risking my insurance.

[RSTuning]

No they dont check all the cars.

BUT

Imagine if you killed a child or similar. I'm sure they would be interested in your ecu then.

It's your choice at the end of the day but my point is that it totally possible to tell if a car has been mapped.

[Wazza_G]

but how exactly are they going to find out?

i believe you can do a checksum comparison on the ecu but check it against what? - I believe there are many ecu factory set ups so what do they check against?

and do insurance companies check the ecu on every totalled vehicle?

and if they do, there's no date stamp so just say you didn't know about the remap (if you don't buy new), because how could you know?

currently i'm planning on keeping quiet unless i can be convinced that i'm seriously risking my insurance.

If you don't & you have an accident they may refuse to pay up, with insurance it's best to be honest with them, because if you're not & they find out you could have special T&Cs imposed on you and that WILL send your premiums a lot higher than if you had told them in the first place.

You could also then risk a trip before your local magistrate...

[dansansome]

a friend of mine who works in the insurance game told me that an insurance company can only refuse to pay out a claim if they discover that some of the policy details are incorrect AND they can prove that at the time of the insurance being taken out, if the mods/points/details were disclosed, they would have refused to insure the person/vehicle.

if insurance would have been granted, they will then withhold any payout until the "proper" (with all admissions of mods/points etc) premium price difference is paid.

[troutmask]

right, simple one here, i'll ring my insurance company tomorrow and tell them I'm considering a remap and how will that affect my insurance.

if it's just another £50 or something then I'll come clean.

[dansansome]

yeah, probably a good idea lol

[Wazza_G]

Noooooo!

You tell them that it'll be done in 24hrs time not retrospectively, that will give them ammunition to use when it comes to renewal time, like the special conditions like an inspection of the vehicle etc, if you tell them that it'll be done in 24hrs time then they're none the wiser!

[troutmask]

mmm, my insurance say they won't cover me. getting an alternative quote adds about £200 to premium (and I'm 42!)

this has depressed me... might cancel now.

[dansansome]

wow, thats quite a lot. you could try adrian flux they (apparently) have special policies etc for modified vehicles, and are supposedly pretty reasonable.

[troutmask]

just rang them and they were still +£200 on the standard premium. just going to cancel the remap and buy a very, very big curry to cheer myself up

[mgreenfield]

Ive got a 1.9tdi and just wondered where i could get it remmaped had quotes for £300-£500 just wondered where the best place is like.

[RSTuning]

Ive got a 1.9tdi and just wondered where i could get it remmaped had quotes for £300-£500 just wondered where the best place is like.


We are offering a full custom setup for only £299 at the moment, I can guarantee this is the best deal you will find in the UK for the same service.

See my sig for details

Paul

[muffindell]

Hi Guys, think of a remap being a kyrpton tune of old days when you would take your car into a garage to get them to set up all of the parameters for optimum running - would that make your insurance higher? Think of when you take your car into the main dealer and he downloads the latest software to get rid of flat spots etc - would this make your insurance higher? Think of insurance companies who ask have you made any modifications to the car such has alloy wheels etc, no you haven't, you have purely modified something that you cannot touch, something that isn't real; therefore if it isn't real you can't tell the insurance. Think about many cars on the road which self learn and self optimise the ecu software - would you need to tell the insurance company each day that the car has been modified? THINK ABOUT IT :approve:

[s21deg]

Does anyone have any figures for mpg after a remap on 1.9tdi mk5 golf?

[muffindell]

Not yet on the TDi, but other cars I have had re-mapped have not only improved smoothness, acceleration, overall drivability but have improved MPG by around 8% - in other words you just can't go wrong with a well executed re-map! Just be careful of companies who offer stupid BHP improvement figures, these will cost you the life of your engine/clutch/transmission over the long term (30-40bhp improvement is within a good tolerance)

[p-torque.co.uk]

The later generation 1.9TDI will usually see 3ish MPG improvement once mapped.

You can have an economy map if thats the main reason for doing it, but the P-Torque map gives gains of 32bhp and 70NM of torque on the 105bhp model, mix that with an MPG improvement and you're laughing :D

[muffindell]

P-Torque rocks!!!!!! This guy is sooooooooo good, totally faultless, you guys should get down there a see how he can make your car go like it was designed to go in the first place :D

[p-torque.co.uk]

P-Torque rocks!!!!!! This guy is sooooooooo good, totally faultless, you guys should get down there a see how he can make your car go like it was designed to go in the first place :D

Many Thanks for the kind words, much appreciated! :beerchug:

[mjom89]

Hi Guys, think of a remap being a kyrpton tune of old days when you would take your car into a garage to get them to set up all of the parameters for optimum running - would that make your insurance higher? Think of when you take your car into the main dealer and he downloads the latest software to get rid of flat spots etc - would this make your insurance higher? Think of insurance companies who ask have you made any modifications to the car such has alloy wheels etc, no you haven't, you have purely modified something that you cannot touch, something that isn't real; therefore if it isn't real you can't tell the insurance. Think about many cars on the road which self learn and self optimise the ecu software - would you need to tell the insurance company each day that the car has been modified? THINK ABOUT IT :approve:

Thats a very good way to put it!

[Ben]

ring up your insurance company and ask them the following question...

"i'm thinking of getting my car remapped, it'll give me better mpg and an increase in bhp, it is not a visible modification. How much is it likely to cost me?"

[BlackSmoke]

ring up your insurance company and ask them the following question...

"i'm thinking of getting my car remapped, it'll give me better mpg and an increase in bhp, it is not a visible modification. How much is it likely to cost me?"

And don't forget to stress that it does NOT increase the top speed (especially if it doesn't :p)

Incidentally ... in my experience insurance companies fit into to 2 categories, the ones that just won't insure you for a bhp increase and the ones that will. The ones that will seem to be more interested in the % increase in BHP - so have that figure in mind when you ring.

[BlackSmoke]

Hi Guys, think of a remap being a kyrpton tune of old days when you would take your car into a garage to get them to set up all of the parameters for optimum running - would that make your insurance higher?

The Crypton tuning machine helped mechanics tune a badly running car back to the manufacturers performance levels (optimum running).

The insurance "risk" for a particular model is calculated based on the manufacturers "built in" levels and a re-map changes the performance levels to greatly exceed the manufacturers quoted levels.

Effectively, if you have more power you'll potentially drive like a mad man and kill everybody so, whilst you'll have more fun, you should expect insurers to take into account the extra potential risk.

[peak_46]

Hi all, this is most probably the daft question of the day but is it possible to re-map a the 1.6 FSI or is it only possible with diesels?

[muffindell]

The Crypton tuning machine helped mechanics tune a badly running car back to the manufacturers performance levels (optimum running).

This is not strictly true, the Krypton tune, which can be/was used in conjunction with a rolling road, will tune the car to give it's maximum performance for the given standard components, this would often produce results better than manufacture guide figures

The insurance "risk" for a particular model is calculated based on the manufacturers "built in" levels and a re-map changes the performance levels to greatly exceed the manufacturers quoted levels.

Non of the components (hardware) have been changed from original spec, just the way that they interact with each other

Effectively, if you have more power you'll potentially drive like a mad man and kill everybody so, whilst you'll have more fun, you should expect insurers to take into account the extra potential risk.

If you are a mad man you will kill everybody no matter how much power a engine kicks out! More power does not necessarily mean a greater risk, since an ECU re-map doesn't increase max speed from standard spec; it just improves the efficiency that it runs at - hence the same as Krypton tune :D

[muffindell]

Hi all, this is most probably the daft question of the day but is it possible to re-map a the 1.6 FSI or is it only possible with diesels?
Most modern day cars diesel/petrol can benefit from a re-map, it makes a engine run more efficiently and use less fuel, something that we could all benefit from with the way fuel prices are going
Go to the P-torque website, that should give you the info you need.

[Gunnar]

You can get a petrol naturaly aspiratede engine remapped, but i don't think that the gains are worth the money you spend on it, unless you start off with a large size big hp engine allready.

[RSTuning]

Not so true, i tuned a 1.2 the other day and it made an extra 7hp and 7lbft, which when you look at the % increase thats quite good :)

[Century]

We always advise our customers to tell their insurance, just to be on the safe side.
If you have a accident and they check it your in the poo upto your eye balls.

[stuart]

We always advise our customers to tell their insurance, just to be on the safe side.
If you have a accident and they check it your in the poo upto your eye balls.

I will be emailing you this evening regarding advertising, ref your PM yesterday;)

[seatfan]

I just had my Seat Alhambra 2L 140BHP PD fitted with a DPT box. My insurance co. Zurich was informed, but no extra premium was charged as they have a "no penalty premium" agreement with DPT. The only rider they have put on is that no one under 25 may drive it.

[gogzyb]

The advice I was given (won't say by who) is this....

The only way you can tell the car has been remapped is by driving it... and if you are in an accident... anyone driving your car is unlikely to nail the throttle in a damaged car... and so it SHOULD be undetected :)

[RSTuning]

I'm afraid you have been mis-informed.

[p-torque.co.uk]

The advice I was given (won't say by who) is this....

The only way you can tell the car has been remapped is by driving it... and if you are in an accident... anyone driving your car is unlikely to nail the throttle in a damaged car... and so it SHOULD be undetected :)

Incorrect and not a professional reply :(

[gogzyb]

Incorrect and not a professional reply :(

I stand corrected on that one!

[lupogini]

Hi had my car done 6 months ago,its fantastic. Better everything including economy and the mid range is now amazing.
140 taken to about 190. Torque upto about 400nm. Cost £300 and worth every penny.

Go for it.................

[swm1982]

I am seriously considering a remap on my 04 GT TDI, but I am just concerned about any negative effects of the remap.

Is there any risk to the car when increasing BHP and torque? Forgive my ignorance on this!

[Asy]

I've just got the ST3 for my nealy new 140ps golf, I had the economy/fast road maps...Loaded the f/road map first and hey presto the car has been totally transformed no turbo lag,first gear is better and it pulls like a train in every gear....:D:D:D
Oh and as far as i can see the MPG is better....:D

[darren cullen]

dont mention it unless you get a buyers who shows up and is clearly innterested in the perforamance aspect

I had my 163 1.8T done to 207bhp, money well spent

[Wazza_G]

Have you told your insurance company about the increased performance?

[darren cullen]

no, totally undetectable, now get 37mpg instead of 35 as well

[Wazza_G]

You should because as RSTuning & Dansansome pointed out on an earlier page of this thread if you have an accident and some gets injured then you might find that the police & insurers will take an interest in the ECU to ensure that you were telling the truth about the insurance & performance of the car.

If you didn't or weren't then you could find yourself uninsured & fully liable for all of the costs and later on impose punitive conditions on you or refuse cover altogether.

So do think carefully about NOT telling them.

[elPaulio]

I have the ST3 also, and when checking my Engine through VCDS I can see that it has been flashed nigh on 10 times now, and I'm pretty sure it wasn't that high prior to my ST3 trials so be warned. The ST3 is not invisible!!

Paul :biglaugh:

[muffindell]

Mmmmmmmm I really doubt that an insurance company is going to take an ECU off a car and compare the map with the manufactures version which may of been up dated several times since the car rolled out of the factory. They would then need to prove that the driver knew that the car had been remapped; very, very difficult to prove.

[ashadam]

Mmmmmmmm I really doubt that an insurance company is going to take an ECU off a car and compare the map with the manufactures version which may of been up dated several times since the car rolled out of the factory. They would then need to prove that the driver knew that the car had been remapped; very, very difficult to prove.


Why would they not?

[muffindell]

Because a map doesn't make the cars' top speed any faster than original spec. What's the point in spending even more money on sending a ECU to a specialist to then do a check on variation of data from a manufacturers map, and then try to prove the driver knew about it. With the amount of claims in the industry everything would grind to a halt very quickly; I just can't see it TBH

[swm1982]

Because a map doesn't make the cars' top speed any faster than original spec. What's the point in spending even more money on sending a ECU to a specialist to then do a check on variation of data from a manufacturers map, and then try to prove the driver knew about it. With the amount of claims in the industry everything would grind to a halt very quickly; I just can't see it TBH

That is a good point... how could an insurance company prove WHEN the remap took place? What happens if you buy a remapped second hand car, and you do not declare this because you do not know?

[ashadam]

Because a map doesn't make the cars' top speed any faster than original spec. What's the point in spending even more money on sending a ECU to a specialist to then do a check on variation of data from a manufacturers map, and then try to prove the driver knew about it. With the amount of claims in the industry everything would grind to a halt very quickly; I just can't see it TBH


In other words your just guessing - Great!

[darren cullen]

I remapped my 2003 A4 1.8T 163 to 207 BHP, best money ever spent, more mpg, more torque

When I sold, did not mention in ad but couple of people asked me when viewed and when one drove the car the deal was done

£250

[colinoz]

I have just got off the phone to my insurance company. They would add a remap to the policy at no extra cost. He said they treat it like an extra to be taken into account if the car is written off. He asked me about the exhaust and if I was changing that. On my policy the car is limited to drivers who are over 25.

I then thought of the standard sized steel wheel and tyre I bought as a spare instead ot the claytons spare supplied when new. He was very interested in that and added it to the policy then and there.

I have been treated very badly by an insurance company years ago and I have a healthy respect for them. I would definately tell, or consult them before remapping. If you don't you would be driving around with a false sence of security until you make a claim. If they decline the claim you really are on your own.

[shark_90]

Remaps are NOT undetectable. End of story.

Anyone who thinks that it is down to the insurance company to prove that you had it done or that it is remapped is wrong, it is down to you to prove that it wasn't you.

More information at http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/tuning-faq.asp

[p-torque.co.uk]

Remaps are NOT undetectable. End of story.

Anyone who thinks that it is down to the insurance company to prove that you had it done or that it is remapped is wrong, it is down to you to prove that it wasn't you.

More information at http://www.sharkperformance.co.uk/tuning-faq.asp


Are you offering remaps now?

[shark_90]

Are you offering remaps now?

Indeed I am, will drop you a PM. :beerchug: