Turbo problems ?

[Big G.]

Hi,

I've just joined the forum, and hope someone can help with what I believe is a turbo problem.

I've been "overboosting" and have changed / done the following:
New pressure converter solonoid.
New boost control solonoid.
New Maf
Cleaned the EGR.
Cleaned the intercooler pipes.
Cleaned the air filter.

Still the car is going into limp mode and showing an "emmisions workshop" warning. Not all the time, but regularly enough to **** me off. Especially when I'm fully committed to a tight overtake on a country lane, not the best place to go into gimp mode.

I think I'm at the stage where I am going to take the turbo off and give it a good clean out. So what I would like to know is:

Should I take the turbo out the top or bottom of the engine ?
What gaskets, seals should I replace ?
Is there anything I could really **** up ?
Is it easy to split the turbo to get to the VNT mechanism ?


The car has only got 34,000 miles on it, but from what I've read on here it seems like the ARL's have a common problem with the turbo.

I look forward to your replies.

Regards,
Big G.

P.S. - it's a GT tdi 150 on a 53 plate.

[passat>sport]

Is it easy to split the turbo to get to the VNT mechanism ?


http://pics.tdiclub.com/data/500/Drivbiwire_VNT_repair_procedure_small.pdf


Sorry never removed a turbo from a Golf.

[Crasher]

On an ARL 150PD it is usually a faulty turbo, cleaning the vanes rarely works on these as it does on the 100, 110, 115 and 130.

[Big G.]

Passat>Sport - Thanks for the link.

Crasher - After using the search facility on here, it seems you reply to most with this problem. You seem to know pretty much all there is to know about golf turbo's (I hate saying nice things about people - LoL). I think I'll have a go at cleaning it first, and if I'm still overboosting after that will consider a new one.

The only thing is I'd be gutted if I got a new one and it turned out to be something I hadn't changed like the MAP.

One thing I forgot to mention is that I've taken my actuator off and wiggled the vanes and they felt nice and loose. I've put a pipe on my actuator and sucked and again the vanes move ok.

Thanks for the reply, any other advice would be welcome.

[Crasher]

You have a powerful suck then! I have to use a hand vacuum pump to make an actuator move.

[FLENG2008]

this seems to be a real big problem now.
alot of plp with the same fault
keep posting i would love to know if there are any solutions instead of a new turbo thanks

[Crasher]

Two solutions other than a new one, remove it and clean the vanes or use a chemical treatment to dissolve the carbon with the turbo in situ, the latter of which I haven’t tried. I get the feeling the problem is due to the diesel being used but it is only a theory.

[FLENG2008]

^^^ thanks crasher i coming to see you soon when i get some more money, hopefully you can free it off for me, and tell me why the car makes indicator noises sometimes?? thanks

[Big G.]

Thanks for the replies again, and yes I've got a good suck !!

I finally got round to taking the turbo off today. It took 8 hours !! I don't think I'd get a job in a garage !

I took it out the top, and found everthing difficult not having done any of it before. The EGR came off ok, but the Exhaust Cooler (I think that's what you call it) was a pain. The inlet manifold was a pain, then getting the exhaust manifold off was a pain. The oil lines were a pain as I've heard about the kinking problem. Then getting the whole lot through a narrow gap was another pain.

I've had another suck and the actuator seems to stick after a short movement, then with my extra special suck it moves fully, but slowly !

I'm going to take it to bits tomorrow as I'm knackered after coming off nights then working on the car.

Will keep you all posted.

Thanks again.

[Crasher]

I can pull, strip, clean, rebuild and refit a TDI turbo in a day and I have done more than I can remember and have all the tools to hand so eight hours for a first removal isn't bad at all, you should be pleased with yourself.

[Big G.]

Crasher,

If you can do that on a regular basis - maximun respect !

If it wasn't for all the links on how to do it on places like this, and all the help given by people like you, I would'nt have known where to start. My copy of Elsawin and Haynes Manual were less than useful, but if I had to do it again, I would find it much easier.

I hope I can put it all back together again !

I'm going to start looking at the links on how to dismantle the turbo and vane assembly tomorrow and start fresh.

A mate of mine owns "Turboactive" up here in the North East, I might give him a bell tomorrow and see what advice I can get from him.

Reagrds,
Graeme.

[FLENG2008]

Thanks for the replies again, and yes I've got a good suck !!

I finally got round to taking the turbo off today. It took 8 hours !! I don't think I'd get a job in a garage !

I took it out the top, and found everthing difficult not having done any of it before. The EGR came off ok, but the Exhaust Cooler (I think that's what you call it) was a pain. The inlet manifold was a pain, then getting the exhaust manifold off was a pain. The oil lines were a pain as I've heard about the kinking problem. Then getting the whole lot through a narrow gap was another pain.

I've had another suck and the actuator seems to stick after a short movement, then with my extra special suck it moves fully, but slowly !

I'm going to take it to bits tomorrow as I'm knackered after coming off nights then working on the car.

Will keep you all posted.

Thanks again.


thats good going, another guy on here MUZ he had to tow his car to the garage to get some nuts burnt off when he was doing his..

[Crasher]

How Big G and Muz fared is why I get stressed when people say it is easy to do DIY. I have to do it in a day to stay competitive with other people who quote stupidly low times when they have never done one before, the next time the aren’t so cheap.

[Big G.]

Hi All,

Well so far today, I've had the turbo to bits. Came apart without too many problems, just a mallet and chizel needed.

I got the turbo to bits no problem using the online guides on here and UKMk4's.

I took the VNT mechanism to bits and gave it a good clean out, and put it all back together again. It is so much smother and easier to pull a vacuum. Hopefully, that's my problems sorted.

Just one thing that's bothering me, when I was inspecting the exhaust turbine vanes I noticed that the thing (can only be described as a large washer, slightly bigger than the turbine vanes) behind the vanes was loose and could be moved from side to side slightly. Is this ok or is it supposed to be a tight fit ??

I'm going out to get all the gaskets now, so if anyone knows please reply so I don't get it all back together just find out I've knacked it !

Cheers,
Graeme.


p.s. - it took me 4 hours to dismantle, clean and put back together.

[FLENG2008]

Crasher Is Your Man For That^^

[Crasher]

The actuator disc is quite free to float around.

[Big G.]

Thanks Crasher, came to my rescue again !

The local VW dealer's don't have any gaskets in stock, i.e. - Exhaust manifold, downpipe, inlet manifold, etc, so I'll have to wait 'till Monday to put it all back together - Bugger !!

Pity, I wanted to get cracking with at least putting the exhaust manifold and turbo back on.

[Crasher]

Ahh well you see if you were organised like me you would have them all ready on the bench waiting. Mind you, I always forget something!:biglaugh:

[Big G.]

Hi All,

I got my gaskets today - £20

Got the car back together in 5 hours - I know, I know, slow coach (LoL) !!

Started the car up and let it warm up a bit, then took it for a test drive. Car seemed ok and pulled strongly. I cleaned my intake manifold and EGR at the same time.

Too early yet to tell if I've fixed the overboost problem I had, but it's looking promising.

When I phoned TurboActive they quoted me £250 just to look at the turbo and diagnose the faults, they quoted me £500 for a replacement unit (if I remember correctly). I can only imagine what VW would have charged me to replace my turbo when all that was wrong with it was sticking vanes, but the usual quote is between £1,200 and £2,000.

So it just goes to show, if you can be bothered, have a couple of days free and you are relatively mechanically minded, you can take your own turbo out, take it apart, clean it up and put it all back together again for - £20 !!

Having said that, I couldn't have done it without all the info on here, UKMK4's, TDI CLub, etc. So a big thank you to you all, especially Crasher.

I'll repost in a couple of weeks, just in case I've knackered something up that will show up later.

Cheers,
Graeme.

[Crasher]

http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_11.gif (http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb001_ZNxdm824YYGB)

[Big G.]

Well, spoke too soon.

80 miles into a good thrash round the twisties, while pulling up a hill in a higher gear the car goes into limp mode and an emmisions warning flashes up. I havn't had the codes read yet, but I guarantee it'll be an overboost.

Happened a few more times after that too.

I got home after about 170 miles, pretty much thrashing it all the way, and out of that journey the car must of gone into limp mode about 5 times. Why does'nt it do it all the time ??

It's very frustrating and I don't know what to do next, apart from sell it, as it must have been the last car made on a Friday afternoon, just before the lads clocked off and went to the pub !!

Thats:

1. A new MAF.
2. A new N75.
3. A new boost control solenoid.
4. Checked for vacuum leaks.
5. Turbo cleaned out.

What next ??

[FLENG2008]

who cleaned out the turbo?
maybe its something to do with the vanes still , did they leave scores in the turbo, im sure crasher said something about that and that they had to be ground smooth with a copper wheel or something like that and then rebuilt?
wait for crasher tho, i just going off what he said to me? im sure he'll have an answer for you

[Crasher]

He did it himself; I was really hoping he had sorted it. A new MAP sensor should be the next part changed but some logs of the boost would be useful. Big G, the N75 and boost control solenoid are the same thing.

[Big G.]

Sorry mate,

The N75 and the one next to it, changed them both. Might try the MAP, nothing to lose.

[FLENG2008]

keep us posted big g thanks

[Crasher]

Did you change the one with the part number 1J0 906 627 B for the new part number 1K0 906 627 A? There are three solenoids, left is EGR N18, centre is shut down flap N239 and right is charge pressure control N75.

[Big G.]

One is the 1K0906283A, and the other was 1K0906627A.

VW call them the Charge Pressure Control Solonoid (N75) and the Changeover Valve (N239). On the bulkhead, looking from the front of the car, the one on the right and the one in the middle.

I didn't replace the EGR solonoid.

[Crasher]

OK, fit a new MAP.

[Big G.]

160 miles today and no limp mode, mind you I wasn't thrashing it as much as yesterday. I was giving it some, but not thrashing it, if you know what I mean.

I'll see how it goes over the next couple of weeks and let you know.

[twign]

Hi,

Sorry...but i'm new to all these turbo problems...

What's a MAP?

Thanks

Twign

[Crasher]

Manifold Absolute Pressure sensor or what VW refer to as a “Thrust” sensor.

[owen1183]

Both my mate and my brother had to have new turbo's due to overboost problem. It is a known VW fault (so my mate was told) but they didnt do a recall, they just fixed them as and when they came in.

This was told to my mate from the VW ******* in Stoke.

[twign]

Hi,

Did your mate have to pay for the fault to be fixed?

Thanks

Twign

[owen1183]

No my mate didnt as the car was under warrenty, but my brother did as his was out of warrenty.

Think this is why they never did an official recall - pass the cost to the customer!

[twign]

That's shocking.

If it's a mass produced fault...you shouldn't av to pay should u really.

How much was it if you know/don't mind me asking????

I'm hoping my fault will be easy to repair...but if it is this ur talking about....I'd like to know what cost i'm looking at.

Do you know exactly what it was they did? Maybe it'd be cheaper to go somewhere other than VW for it?

Thanks again

Twign

[Big G.]

Hi All,

Just noticed that this thread is still going.

Since I took my turbo off and cleaned it all out it hasn't gone into limp mode since. The one time that it did, was the day after I put it all back together and thrashed the t!ts off it. Poor thing !

So I've done several thousand miles since, all sorts of driving and it's ok.

So anyone struggling with overboost and limp mode I would advise you to get the turbo off and get it cleaned out, rather than spend hundreds on a new MAF, solenoid valves, vacuum pipes, etc, etc.

Thanks for all the good advice on here.


Regards,
Graeme.

[owen1183]

I think your looking at £600 + from a dealer for new turbo and labour

My brother had it paid for by the company as it was a company car at the time.

you could always see what a dealer recommends you do and take it from there?

It is bad that they know about it and have done nothing, I know that my mate has since changed his car because of his experience.

[ini]

It is VAG dealer policy to replace the whole turbo unit, even if only a replaceable part has failed, or it just needs a clean, and sometimes even when the turbo is not at fault.

[Crasher]

Yes, VAG class a turbo as a non repairable unit.

[twign]

Hi,

Okay, I had my car in at ADC diagnostics in Bulwell at the weekend.

REALLY gutted because I was hoping the problem would be simple....such as a leak somewhere...but in the time he had it...he said he couldn't find any air leaks. To be fair...he did say that to check it 100% he'd need more time on it...but I needed my car for work so I had to take it.

So...can anyone offer any further advice as to what It might be?

Taking it to chippeduk at the weekend with chris. Hopefully we might be able to get it sorted...but if not...I can't afford to spend anymore money just to get what I should have got from the remap alone...so if it comes to that...as much as I hate it...i'm gonna have to ask chris to put the original software back on it and have my money back. =(

Please help! lol. I SO want 200bhp (finances available).

Twign

[nfegan]

Hi Big G,
Be really interesting to know why it went into limp mode a number of times the day after the rebuild and not happened since then.
I'm having a similar problem, I'm going to France tomorrow for 4 weeks and hoping the long drive will do it some good. Bit paranoid/anxious that It will get worse though... especally being so far from home!:(
Is it still trouble free or has it returned yet?

[Big G.]

To put it bluntly - I absolutely thrashed the knackers off it for about 80 miles non stop, and I think it got that hot that the vanes just stuck with heat expansion (just a guess though).

I've thrashed it loads since and it hasn't missed a beat.

Good luck with yours.

[mcdonald13]

Hi guys

ive got turbo problems aswell i had the computer on it and it was sayin it was the actuator valve... so i got the turbo re-conditioned came back and was still the same so i got a new turbo for it and it went ok for a while then it would jus go into gimp mode at random times.... i figured out that once it done it if i switch off the ignition then back on agen its fine for ages so i dont really know what to do next.....

cany any1 help?

cheers

[Crasher]

What is the car, engine code, year and fault codes you are getting? 17965 by any chance?

[mcdonald13]

its a gt tdi... the plate is a Y... ejm i think

cant remember the code il have to re-check

have u got a vague idea what it could be?

cheers

[Crasher]

Possibly

[mcdonald13]

well what could it be lol

[Crasher]

Sticking turbo vanes.

[mcdonald13]

well it aint that...

ive stuck a new turbo on..

[Crasher]

Well in that case, you need the results of a fault code read, print, clear, drive until the fault occurs again and then a re-read and print.

[mcdonald13]

cheers il giv tht a try n let u know how i get on

[badbarbie]

hi guys,

I have the same old problem of sticky vanes, tried using innotec turbocleaner last weekend but the paper gasket they give you to keep the stuff in does **** all, anyway made a decent gasket at work and gonna try it again next weekend but wondering if anyone can tell me how you get the vanes to move while the cleaners doing its magic? is there a manual pump?

Thanks,
Heather

[Crasher]

Yes, you use a hand pump, often known as a Mitty Vac and I am sure it tells you this in the instructions. If you use the old gasket as a support washer the paper gasket is adequate but I use a few old gaskets and bolt them down on top of the paper gasket they provide. I used to painstakingly cut the gasket to fit the hole but that used to take too long.

[nfegan]

Hi,
Bit reluctant to reply to this post as I feel I'll be shooting myself in the foot, but..., Just an update on mine from last year, (about 8500 miles), I posted on this thread about this time last year just before I went to France for holidays. off to France again for Hols in 2 weeks and since I was there last year the car hasn't gone into limp mode. Can't say I exactly "screwed" it but certainly drove it hard enough. Car with large roofbox (full), boot (full), 2 adults and 3 children 1200 mile round trip (motorways & duel carrageways) with about 400 miles of cruising style driving while there. wife uses the car mostly during the week bringing children to school, shopping etc etc. I have company car so only give it a blast at the weekends, so far so good. didn't use any turbo cleaner just filters and recommended oil (castrol edge 505.01 5W40 TDI oil)

[M53494]

Yes, you use a hand pump, often known as a Mitty Vac and I am sure it tells you this in the instructions. If you use the old gasket as a support washer the paper gasket is adequate but I use a few old gaskets and bolt them down on top of the paper gasket they provide. I used to painstakingly cut the gasket to fit the hole but that used to take too long.


I just used my finger to move the actuator. (I assume that is the piston rod coming out of the top of a cylinder I was moving!).It wouldnt move all the way at first untill the innotec stuff got to work, then it moved a lot easier. I had the problem with the stuff leaking out past the card, even using the exhaust gasket as a backplate. I would suggest it would be better to make something thicker than the exhaust gasket to use before starting the job.

Anyway... it did the job - no more overboost and the engine seems to have more power.

Great for just over £37, much cheaper than a new turbo!