2.0 GTTDi 140 vs 170 "real-world" comparisons

[alexbuck]

Hi folks

Great forum. I've been looking around for a while now but have now decided to get involved! First post, so treat me gently...!

I'm just about to change jobs and as part of the package I'll get a company car.

Now, both the 2.0 GTTDI 140 and 170 are on the list in my allowance band, but I'm after some real-world comparisons between the two from you guys.

I've read all manner of reviews on both, but would really like to know what owners think of them, when comparing the two.

Thanks in advance
Alex.

PS - I'm currently a Civic Type-R owner, so the oodles of diesel torque will be a wonder to me! :D

[RichieG]

I have a 140, but if you're coming from a Type-R you'll need the 170! Particularly as your company probably won't let you remap it!

It's a bit of a no brainer isn't it if you're not paying? Tax difference can't be much?

[alexbuck]

145 vs 156 CO2 for the manual equivalents. Probably 1% or 2% difference in tax, so no, nothing in it really.

The 170 with DSG is 169...!

[alexbuck]

Particularly as your company probably won't let you remap it!

Although...What they don't know won't hurt them!

[prolfe]

Which civic are you in? is it the latest shape Type R?

There is a big performance difference between the 140 and 170. I'm not talking about from a standstill (although there is one there too) but once you get going.


The 140 feels quick enough mid range, but the 170 is fast. It will easily keep up with the old shape 3.2 TT from 50 upwards.

It is just as quick as the newest Type R from 60 upwards and then is quicker from about 110. Now it's not several car lengths quicker, it's just noticeable.

the books say:
___________________TypeR______TDI 170_____TDI 140_____old type r
30-50_____3rd/4th_____3.8/5_____3.1/4.5_____3.8/5.7______3.8/6.0
50-70_____5th_________7.1______6.3________7.2________ _7.1
0-1km_________________28.5_____28.9______unknown____ _unknown

[alexbuck]

I've got an old shape civic at the moment (ep3). The best shape! Final edition with the recaros. Its a great car, if a bit thirsty (I saw 30mpg once! Usually returns 23 on an average week), but a company car simply makes far more sense financially.

[Donkey Kong]

I've driven both - the real difference is minimal. My wife has a 140 and I test drove a 170 last week. Could'nt convince myself it was worth the extra money. But if you're not paying - go for the 170 with an ECU remap to 200+bhp

[alexbuck]

I've driven both - the real difference is minimal. My wife has a 140 and I test drove a 170 last week. Could'nt convince myself it was worth the extra money. But if you're not paying - go for the 170 with an ECU remap to 200+bhp

To be honest, I had a feeling that may be the case. Although others have said that there's a dramatic difference!

I'm going tohave to try to persuade VAG to let me test drive both back-to-back.

[Donkey Kong]

Did the people that told you there was a dramtic difference consist of 170 owners and VW dealers?!!!

[alexbuck]

Hmm, well, yes!

[Donkey Kong]

just out of interest what else is on the company car list?

[alexbuck]

just out of interest what else is on the company car list?

Run of the mill stuff really.

Take you pick from:
Ford
Vauxhall
Toyota
VW Golf, Jetta & Passat
Audi A3
Low-ish end Volvo
Very low end BMW 1 Series
Very low end Mercedes A & B Class

Bear in mind, the car needs to have 4 or 5 doors and ideally be diesel (for tax purposes).

[Donkey Kong]

What about the A3 instead - has a nicer cabin. Or are the engine choices lame?

[alexbuck]

I did start looking at them but fell in love with the s-line which I can't afford without having to contribute .

I can afford a 170 sportback in sport trim, but the s-line is the one I really want and I think I'd always regret the choice!

[prolfe]

I did start looking at them but fell in love with the s-line which I can't afford without having to contribute .

I can afford a 170 sportback in sport trim, but the s-line is the one I really want and I think I'd always regret the choice!

Nowt to regret :)

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=183&size=big&cat=529

[alexbuck]

Nowt to regret :)

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/photopost/showphoto.php?photo=183&size=big&cat=529

are they the 18" wheels off the s-line? And do you have the same front seats as the s-line, albeit minus the leather? I've been trying to work out what's seats the sport has from the audi site and various posts, but I'm not sure!

[prolfe]

are they the 18" wheels off the s-line? And do you have the same front seats as the s-line, albeit minus the leather? I've been trying to work out what's seats the sport has from the audi site and various posts, but I'm not sure!

They are the standard 17" Sport model wheels that came on the model from Jan 07.

They do look a bit like the 5 Arm design 18's from the S-Line and A4 etc etc.

The seats and suspension are exactly the same. The seats don't have leather though. I chose, black with the red check. Blue and Grey check were also available.

The seats like all sports seats in the VAG range are made by Recaro.

Here's some more pics:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=529

[alexbuck]

They are the standard 17" Sport model wheels that came on the model from Jan 07.

They do look a bit like the 5 Arm design 18's from the S-Line and A4 etc etc.

The seats and suspension are exactly the same. The seats don't have leather though. I chose, black with the red check. Blue and Grey check were also available.

The seats like all sports seats in the VAG range are made by Recaro.

Here's some more pics:

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/photopost/showgallery.php?cat=529

Instantly making the Sport a very attractive proposition!

Just need to upgrade to the 18" S-Line alloys and I'm happy!

[prolfe]

Instantly making the Sport a very attractive proposition!

Just need to upgrade to the 18" S-Line alloys and I'm happy!

The 18's make the ride twice as firm as the 17's so have a go on both to see what you think they feel like.

[gtr mart]

I cant comment to much on the 140 vs 170 comparison, but I had an EP3 type R that was putting out 211bhp. Felt pretty good. I now have a golf 170 dpf (57 plate).

I must say, I see quite a few comparisons between the two cars although I cant help but feel the golf feels a bit quicker. I did have 147 showing on the civic speedo though, whereas the golf will only go to 140ish - which is about 134 on the GPS.

One comment worth making though is power is very deceptive. Its all in relation to what you have driven before and how subtle you are towards feeling actual power variations. many people seem to hint that the 140 is as powerful as the 170 - which - if all things being correct (ie the cars are both making stock power) just cant be true.

You see remap figures for the 140 which shows it does genuinly come out of the show room with c. 140 bhp and then rises to 180ish - whereas the 170 actually has 170 to start with (or more if you see what the revo guys and superchip guys have said) - well this confirms that the 170 does have more power.

Where the confusion can come in is on the power delivery. The 170 is apparently more revvy than the 140 - which would suggest you get more of the traditional diesel whoosh ithan n the 140 whereas, the 170 is more akin to a petrol engine than a diesel lump (excluding the fact it only revs to 4500k). I can see why this sudden whoosh would feel faster than the smooth, longer legged delivery of the 170.

This is something to keep in mind when comparing your civic to the golf. The golf will feel fater, but in reality it probably isnt. I had a road where I used to live where I would test the speeds of the various cars I owned / borrowed. It wasnt too long, but was isolated so you could drive without other cars / old bill about.

My civic would do circa 118 where as the golf (with only about 10k on the clock and admittantly it feels faster now with 21k on the clock than it did then) would only do about 115

it doesnt seem much of a difference, but at those sorts of speeds though a few mph is quite a big different in terms of bhp.

[mojofilter]

I cant comment to much on the 140 vs 170 comparison, but I had an EP3 type R that was putting out 211bhp. Felt pretty good. I now have a golf 170 dpf (57 plate).

I must say, I see quite a few comparisons between the two cars although I cant help but feel the golf feels a bit quicker. I did have 147 showing on the civic speedo though, whereas the golf will only go to 140ish - which is about 134 on the GPS.

One comment worth making though is power is very deceptive. Its all in relation to what you have driven before and how subtle you are towards feeling actual power variations. many people seem to hint that the 140 is as powerful as the 170 - which - if all things being correct (ie the cars are both making stock power) just cant be true.

You see remap figures for the 140 which shows it does genuinly come out of the show room with c. 140 bhp and then rises to 180ish - whereas the 170 actually has 170 to start with (or more if you see what the revo guys and superchip guys have said) - well this confirms that the 170 does have more power.

Where the confusion can come in is on the power delivery. The 170 is apparently more revvy than the 140 - which would suggest you get more of the traditional diesel whoosh ithan n the 140 whereas, the 170 is more akin to a petrol engine than a diesel lump (excluding the fact it only revs to 4500k). I can see why this sudden whoosh would feel faster than the smooth, longer legged delivery of the 170.

This is something to keep in mind when comparing your civic to the golf. The golf will feel fater, but in reality it probably isnt. I had a road where I used to live where I would test the speeds of the various cars I owned / borrowed. It wasnt too long, but was isolated so you could drive without other cars / old bill about.

My civic would do circa 118 where as the golf (with only about 10k on the clock and admittantly it feels faster now with 21k on the clock than it did then) would only do about 115

it doesnt seem much of a difference, but at those sorts of speeds though a few mph is quite a big different in terms of bhp.


Good post! I too recently switched from a CTR to a 170 GTTDi, and have no doubt that the Civic was a fair bit quicker, but you had to wring its neck to get it, whereas the golf has much lazier power from right low down, and has in gear overtaking power that would blow the civic away, perhaps giving the impression of being quicker.

[veedubbora07tdi]

get the 170 lad

[prolfe]

I cant comment to much on the 140 vs 170 comparison, but I had an EP3 type R that was putting out 211bhp. Felt pretty good. I now have a golf 170 dpf (57 plate).

I must say, I see quite a few comparisons between the two cars although I cant help but feel the golf feels a bit quicker. I did have 147 showing on the civic speedo though, whereas the golf will only go to 140ish - which is about 134 on the GPS.

One comment worth making though is power is very deceptive. Its all in relation to what you have driven before and how subtle you are towards feeling actual power variations. many people seem to hint that the 140 is as powerful as the 170 - which - if all things being correct (ie the cars are both making stock power) just cant be true.

You see remap figures for the 140 which shows it does genuinly come out of the show room with c. 140 bhp and then rises to 180ish - whereas the 170 actually has 170 to start with (or more if you see what the revo guys and superchip guys have said) - well this confirms that the 170 does have more power.

Where the confusion can come in is on the power delivery. The 170 is apparently more revvy than the 140 - which would suggest you get more of the traditional diesel whoosh ithan n the 140 whereas, the 170 is more akin to a petrol engine than a diesel lump (excluding the fact it only revs to 4500k). I can see why this sudden whoosh would feel faster than the smooth, longer legged delivery of the 170.

This is something to keep in mind when comparing your civic to the golf. The golf will feel fater, but in reality it probably isnt. I had a road where I used to live where I would test the speeds of the various cars I owned / borrowed. It wasnt too long, but was isolated so you could drive without other cars / old bill about.

My civic would do circa 118 where as the golf (with only about 10k on the clock and admittantly it feels faster now with 21k on the clock than it did then) would only do about 115

it doesnt seem much of a difference, but at those sorts of speeds though a few mph is quite a big different in terms of bhp.

I've yet to drive a 140 that feels as quick as a 170, my 170. And i've driven a few.

Golf, Leon, Audi A3, Audi A4, Audi A6, Passat and Mitsubishi Lancer.

I've also had my car long enough to have been up against a few as well. and aside from the 140 TDI against a few non tdi's: Type R (previous shape), 320d, 530i, TT 3.2, A4 3.2, Impreza ('96), Golf GTI, (mk5), VRS (petrol) and a 911.

As you'd imagine, the 911 was just out of this world fast, I knew it would pull away and I knew it would leave me for dead, but wow, did it go. The only other one to pull away albeit slowly was the VRS, 3 times!, twice it got away as it was 80+ but the time it was 30+ he'd suprised me and got the jump. Next time though, his a friend so hopefully soon. The gti was closer than i'd expected but just quicker and seem to hold the road better or he knew the road better.

So how does the 140 compare to the 170, in short: it doesn't. Not even close.

The 170 holds its value better though, faster, doesn't kick out all the crap out the back and has twin chrome exhausts. It's not as fuel efficient though as you'd expect and it is more expensive.

The VAG 140 is better than other 140's out there: Legacy, Lancer, 118D and Mondeo, the only one that is a lot closer is the Honda 2.2 140 in the Civic and Accord, they are great.

[descb600f]

Out of interest have you had the 170 against a 140 remap I've always wondered how mine compares now I've had the remap.

And no Im not going from Falkirk to Bedfordshire to find out.

[Ben]

Out of interest have you had the 170 against a 140 remap I've always wondered how mine compares now I've had the remap.


this can be arranged;)

[INDAYARD]

170 all the way.

[prolfe]

Out of interest have you had the 170 against a 140 remap I've always wondered how mine compares now I've had the remap.

And no Im not going from Falkirk to Bedfordshire to find out.

I've not come across one yet. What do they push out after the map?

It's probably really close.