golf mk3 1.4/ drinking too much fuel

[golfmk31993]

hi,

i think that my 1.4 golf is drinking too much petrol, if i put 20 litres in the tank it will only do about 65miles before it runs out of fuel wich for a 1.4 seems terrible,

i can hear the exhaust blowing a little bit would this be the reason its drinking so much, or could there be other reasons ?.

does anyone know how many mpg i should be getting from my car?

any help would be really apreciated

thanks

[golfmk31993]

can someone please help me as i cannot keep burning this much fuel,

please!!!

[chronic]

it dose sound like your eating throught that petrol. I would check for a hole in your exhaust as you said you can hear blowing, this would knock down in speed as lost of presure also it would cause loss of mpg because of two things wrong mix of air and petrol, also if you don't fix that hole in the exhaust it can cost you in the long run as it can destory you Cat which costs alot to replace.

So get under that car this weekend and sort it out, and hole can be fixed easy u can ask for the stuff even from your local garage or halfords stock it i think.

Also as i said to someone else it could we worth checking things like filters and spark plugs.

When was your last service.???

[the_old_diver]

Hi G,
I had a '93 CL for five years until it finally quit a few months ago. I always got over 10 miles per litre, sometimes 12. One leak to look for might be in your petrol tank or pipework, and check the air filter in case it is blocked.

Is the car driving OK and what is the inside of the tailpipe like, and what do the spark plugs look like - apart from white and ribbed with a hexagonal metal bit on one end ;-)

Also, do you have a locking filler cap?

OD

[golfmk31993]

the car is driving fine as far as i can tell, it has been like this since i got it about 1 month ago,

last nite i put in £30 and i managed to get about 120 miles and now my needle is on the white line below the red,

the exhaust is definatly blowing if i hold my hand in the exhaust fumes for a few minutes my hand will become damp, but to me it looks normal.

the car has a new air filter on it and my mechanic took out all my spark plugs and cleaned them, they were pretty black, there is definatly no leaks as it is parked in my garage and i havnt had and drip marks or puddles.

so it could be my cat? would a hole in the backbox cause this?

[golfmk31993]

sorry im not sure wot a locking filler cap is?

[the_old_diver]

Hi G,
Seems like you are getting about 20 mpg and you could get 45 to 50. If the plugs are black then I think the mixture is way too rich and if you haven't the knowledge or experience to investigate this yourself I'd suggest getting it to a competent mechanic. Your 120 mile trip cost you £15 more than it should have so you can see how soon a repair bill will pay for itself.

I doubt that the perforated backbox has anything to do with the excessive fuel consumption, but continuing to run the engine with (what appears to be) a very rich fuel mixture may well damage the cat fairly quickly, then the car will fail its emissions test and you'll be even more £££ out of pocket.

A locking filler cap is a space-age device for defeating people who try to syphon your petrol out of the tank when you are not looking.

Does it smoke a little or a lot, and how many miles on the clock?
OD

[golfmk31993]

hi,

there is no smoke at all actually and my fuel cap is definatly fine, the only thing i can notice is the exhaust blowing, my friend who is a mechanic seems to think the car is in great order, but when he heard the exhaust he did mention that i may have a problem with my cat, wich he didnt seem to think was a big problem.

the car has done about 103,000 miles, when i first bought the car there was a white substance under the oil cap on the engine wich my friend said was due to the car being (granny'd) around, but since i have been regularly using the car has disapeared , wich is aparently good.

the car does drive really nicely and does not smoke at all, i have been told by a few different mechanics that the engine sounds like it idles perfectly and they havnt seen a car as old as it in such good mechanical condition before,

the only noticible problem is the exhaust and the fuel consumption,

do u think i should look at getting a new exhaust system? or just a cat?

or could it be somthing ele? (i really hope not)

the only other problem i have had is with my leaking sunroof drains wich i am fixing at the moment with new drain tubes.

all help is really apreciated

[the_old_diver]

do u think i should look at getting a new exhaust system? or just a cat?

Neither - just get the fuel injection system checked! :-)

[golfmk31993]

ok , are there any tell tail signs of problems with the injection system, can i get this checked at a local garage and how much should i be looking at paying for this?,

also how much should i pay to fix this if there is a problem?

[the_old_diver]

ok , are there any tell tail signs of problems with the injection system

Well, excessive fuel consumption is one :-)

Most garages should be able to diagnose engine management systems on common 1990's cars - you haven't said what engine type - e.g. ABD - and year it is. If you are "mechanically minded" and the car has a diagnostic connector you could use VAG-COM on a laptop computer to check for faults. In view of your statement that "your mechanic" cleaned the spark plugs, this may not be the case.
I'll leave it to others to suggest how much a diagnosis might cost, and the repair bill will obviously depend on what is wrong.
Hope this helps, OD

PS If you use the search thingy above the welcome box at the top of the page you might find what has been contributed on problems similar to yours in the past.

[golfmk31993]

hi,

the engine code is ABD its a 1993 1.4 mk3 golf, the inside of the tailpipe is completly black if this helps,

i do have a laptop, does this mean i can plug in to the car with some sort of lead, i am quite mechanically minded and i do like to have a go at fixing things myself,

thanks

[the_old_diver]

does this mean i can plug in to the car with some sort of lead
In theory, yes. The diagnostic connector should be (if I'm reading the manual correctly) behind a dummy cover just to the right of the cigarette lighter - should pop out with a strong finger nail. If there are 2 two way connectors there then it's the old style, and if it is a multiway socket - maybe 16 pins looking much like a tv SCART connector then its slightly newer and you can use a £16 VAG-COM cable from Eshrules on this site. The older style requires an additional adaptor, I'm told.
There is a free version of the VAG-COM software at Ross-Tech.com.

Go explore the car to see what kind of connector you have, then go to Ross-Tech, then use the search thingy if you have any further problems. VAG-COM won't fix your car, but it might tell you what is wrong - total outlay could be under £20 and it will keep you out of mischief for hours.

OD

[golfmk31993]

ok, i have had a look next to the cigarette lighter and that is were the ashtray is, if i remove the ashtray there is a plastic plate wich has to be unscrewed, im guesing its behin there, (i will unscrew it in the morning),

when u say "eshrules on this site" is that a member or wot?

[the_old_diver]

...maybe it's to the right of the ash tray then, or above the lighter. PM me if you need a diagram.

Eshrules: VWAUDI Forum > VWAudi Forum Site Sponsors and Banner Advertisers > Diagnostic Equipment & Tools

Hope this helps. OD

[the_old_diver]

How did you get on - it will help others a lot if you tell us what you found. Cheers, OD

[shagi101]

Mornin Folks,

Been out of the forum for a while, just got back on today. thought ill add my story to this thread.

I also own a 1.4 mk3 golf, a few months back i serviced the car for the first time on my own, since then the shes started drinking like mad. - spark plugs were in v.good condition, plug leads were a big gundged up, so replaced whole set, rotor arm and dizzy cap, oil + filters etc.

i get about 40miles for 10ltr petrol now. she used to give 70 to 80 miles. the only thing thats is different from then, is a hissing noise that appeears only when pressing the accelerator pedal.

I tried lookign for a leak, even tired spraying a bit og Crab cleaner to see if engine changes. but no luck. dont know what else to do, dont have money to take her in to the docs.

[golfmk31993]

hi,

i have had some good advice from the golf gti fourm, my car is drinking too much fuel because of a faulty temp sensor , basically my temp gauge always stays on around 70 even when the car is boiling hot, this has lead to the car burning too much fuel were it thinks its still cold.

when i checked the spark plugs they were black wich is a sign of it running too rich and if i stand behind the car when its running it really smells of petrol,

i have ordered a new temp sensor wich cost about £25 wich i will have on monday,

check your plugs if there black then its running rich,

check your temp gauge after a long journey, it should be at around 90-100 degrees, if it stays at 70 then its your temp sensor

[shagi101]

cheers for that fella,

but i have a feeling my temp sens is ok. why? because it goes up and down when required, and ive seen it. after about 10-15 of running it will go up to the mid point, and stay there.

only thing i can say here is, if i go fast, eg 60mph for a long time, the temperature goes down, wayyyy down. i never thought it to be a problem, coz it made sense, the amount of cold air going in to the car decreases the temperature of the engine. i could be totally wrong about this.

the hissing noise when eccellerating seriously bugs me out, but i just cant find a leak. and i cant help thinking that i messed something up when i changed the rotor arm and dizzy cap.

and like you, i definately smell petrol sometimes in the car, but most of the time outside, especially when i initially turn the engine on.

[the_old_diver]

Given that your temp gauges suggest the engine isn't heating up properly, could it be that both of you have a problem with the thermostat - along with something else that is causing the increased fuel consumption?
Cheers, OD

[golfmk31993]

i posted this same topic on the golf gti forum,

here is the link


http://www.golfgtiforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=76125.0


i am sure that it is my temp sensor causing the fuel consumption, and the mechanics at my local garage are sure aswell, there are no fuel leaks anywere and the car is running too rich and the temp gauge is displaying below 70degrees even after long journeys

[Crasher]

I can't be bothered to read through all that, I would lose the will to live. Has your garage come up with any fault codes?

[shagi101]

guys, golfmk1993 is saying the temp sensor. and OD is saying thermostat.

so im gathering that, my engine should not be going down in heat if i travel fast? different from golfmk1993 the temperature ofmy engine does go to the mid point, and doesnt over heat or go down to 70 under normal driving. but it does go down when i drive fast for a long time. -- so if my thermostat is gone, what do i do? is it an easy diy job? is a new thermo stat expensive? sorry for all the questions.

i thought coz the radiator fans come on regurlarly, and the temperature gauge never goes above the mid point that my thermostat was ok.

oh and golfmk31993, cheers for the link to the gtiforum page.

[the_old_diver]

Hi S,
Ah - you didn't mention that the radiator fans switch on :-) Do they come on when the temp rises, or at some other times? You also said in your first post ...
"a few months back i serviced the car for the first time on my own, since then the shes started drinking like mad. "
This suggests that you did something, or failed to do something, which might be causing a problem. I'd check the connectors to the temp sensors to make sure they are clean and correctly attached - in fact check all the sensor wires that you can see in case you have dislodged something, or put them back in the wrong places.
Also check that the air filter is correctly assembled, clips on, etc and maybe even have a look inside the filter box to make sure there is nothing stopping the little automatic flap at the bottom from moving. If I started my car from cold with the filter removed I could see the flap move after a short time, as it changed the air intake from the pre-heater on the exhaust manifold to the cold source.

It really does sound to me like you have done something not quite right at the service. A picture of your engine bay might remind me of what mine looked like...

Hope this helps. OD

[the_old_diver]

"so if my thermostat is gone, what do i do? is it an easy diy job?"

Depends on whether you have the tools or not. If you are going to run a fairly old car you can either buy a Haynes Manual and build up a set of tools to do the common jobs - or spend money at a local garage.

If it is your first time and you have a socket set and screwdrivers, then it might take an hour to change* the thermostat. Be prepared for snags - like bolts that shear off and screws that won't turn, but it's all part of life's rich tapestry. The Haynes manual will tell you the procedures, and experience will help you overcome snags.

According to Haynes, the thermostat should start to open at 84 C, and the fan should cut in at its slowest speed at about 92 C. If the fan is cutting in but the gauge is reading a low temp, sit down and think about it. Where is the gauge getting its reading from...why is one part of the cooling system seemingly hotter than another ... is the water circulating properly ... is there enough water in the system ...

After 20 years or so you'll get the hang of it. Cheers, OD :-)

*Thermostat might cost £6 or so, but it might not be that which has failed. You can test it after removal to find out if it is working or not. Motor maintenance is an art as well as a science, but for the science bit a logical approach saves time and money.

[shagi101]

od cheers for the above. ok here is what it is at the mo;

the fan comes on only when the engine temperature goes up, it does not come on randomly, it definately relates to the temperature gauge.

the problem i faced with the service i carried out was the dizzy cap, i put in a new one which cracked coz of the force i put on it, then i forgot the firing order of the plugs etc and tried to start to the with the wrong order. this forum then helped me find the right order, and i was soon able to correct my fault with a new dizzy cap. but since then i have noticed the petrol consumption go up.

last thing is the air filter, the flap you are talkign about, is it on the air intake pipe? or the air box its self? my golf has the 1996 1.4 AEX engine, a round air box housing. When i bought my car 2 and a half years ago it was missing the warm air intake pipe (is this what you are talking about when you mention the pre heater?) there is a flap on the normal air intake pipe which looks like it does not open, so it never lets in the cold air, but its been like this since i bought it, ive driven it for almost 2 years without fule problems. and the air box and filter are perfectly normal, and installed correctly.

a question also, should the temperature of the engine not go down if i drive fast for a long time?

thanks.

[Crasher]

The air box has two inlets, cold and warm. The proportioning of the air is controlled by a flap in the inlet and the flap is operated by a temperature valve inside the air cleaner.

[shagi101]

Hi everyone, i went a bit nuts with my camera and took some pictures of the air inlet and things. thought it mite make things easier for me to understand. forgive the length. but here goes.

this is the engine bay, as you can see the warm air hose is missing.
1882

this is what the air filter housing looks like with the top off, there is some oil comming up from the crank case ventilation valve ( i was told), is this bad??
1883

this is the air intake pipe, i took it of and got it home to see how it works. there is nothing else in the filter box that can open or close the warm air flap. there are no wires of any electrical thingys there that i can see that will control the valve.
1884

this is what is in the end on the air intake pipe that goes in to the air box.
1885

and this is the flap that is suppose to open and close for the warm and cold air, but its stuck on the open position, letting only warm air in. i ran the car for about 20mins, with a warm air pipe then quickly checked , the flap was still open. not letting any cold air in.
1887


do you guys know whats wrong with this? it cant be normal?? any fixes?

thanking you all in advance.

[Crasher]

That seems OK to me but you can't tell without driving it and then you can't see it! If you are worried the control box is faulty, fit a new one (1H0 129 608) but they cost £55.90. I altered my text to suit your car as I didn’t realise it was a later 1.4 with the wax stat operated flap, not vacuum operated. The pipe you are using is not a good idea, it cools the hot air with the flow of air through the front of the car (road draught) and massively reduces the temperature of the air reaching the wax stat. The correct insulated hose is VW part number 049 129 627 T and costs a stupid £34.79. A small amount of oil in there is normal.

[shagi101]

thanks crasher. cheers for the part numbers too.

[obidogg]

helo m8,
1st thing is u shud get over 250miles out of £30 worth of fuel, i had the same problem and managed to solve it with a few things from halfords - buy a new oil filter, wynns oil flush and castrol high mileage oil ( u want it running fresh for wot comes next).. also get a new set of triple sparkplugs but dont fit till u have done everything else. next thing to buy is a boxset made by slick 50.. this contains various engine cleaners including injection flush which solved my problem, it was eating so much fuel because it my plugs were screwed and were makin my engine burn its *** off which also caused it idle eratically after a few weeks. i then finished with simple things like redex to clear any blockages and cleaning the carb. if none of this works i would change all ur fuel pipes which is fairly easy for any mechanic to do for u over a weekend. give ur fuel pump a check too

[shagi101]

obi, cheers, here is what ive already done:
oil filter, flush and engine oil, -will be doing it again in a couple of months just to make sure thats not the culprit.
the spark plugs, leads and all round service what carried out not soo long ago.

the box set you mentioned i will keep in mind for the next few months! and finally, the forum has helped me to uncover that my car is over cooling (temp stat is open all the time) and my warm air intake is faulty. so for the moment i will try to resolve those issues first. and to tell you the truth ive spent soo much money on it over the past years im wishing for a new car to come in to my life. but unfortunately my arms and legs arnt worth much.

[shagi101]

guys, a quick update:

i fitted a new temperature stat 2nite with the help of my lil brother. it was an easy job apart from the coolant spilage and the akwardness of taking the bolts of from the housing, and those bloody ring clamps! i didnt drain the whole system, so only needed 2litres of coolant and water to get the system back to normal load. all bubbles came out (hopefully) and the car is running at the correct temp at all times now.

havent driven it a lot since, but the petrol consumption looks like its become better so far.

so thanks to all who helped find the falut!. long live vwaudiforum and all its halpful members.

Sha.

[rossdunbar1]

i also have a 1997 1.4l golf, and it's never given me more than about 25mpg
no matter how easy i go on it.
only 50k on the clock and there is seemingly nothing wrong with it (other than the bite being a bit high)
can anyone help?
thanks