2014 VW Beetle 1.2TSI with intermittent starting issue

[burkey1]

Good Morning All,

My wife has a 2014 VW Beetle 1.2TSI with intermittent starting issue - Model: DBA-16CBZ 3DR AUTO - Japanese Import

For the past 15 months or so (not long after purchased) the car has had an intermittent starting issue.
The car cranks over no bother (good battery), but randomly wont fire.

Notes:


Car seems to fire no bother from cold - Morning starts
Issue appears to be after car has been driven and stopped for a while - Could be temp related??
When car is running it runs v well , doesn't appear to be misfiring/sluggish at all, however I don't drive it much
There are no EML lights on the dash
Engine crank sensor has been replaced - Genuine VW sensor
Fuel Pump has been replaced - Hella Pump
Most recently the car has cut out twice while driving - once on Motorway
Key fob battery has been replaced - only 1 Key
Car has aftermarket Head unit and reverse camera fitted from Dealer we bought from


Hoping to get some golden nuggets of information here

Thanks in advance,

Regards, Burkey

[Crasher]

About the only part which will cause both faults is the crank speed sensor so as that is new, are there any codes stored?

[burkey1]

Thanks for reply.

The car was scanned with a general scanner, dont know how good that scanner was or even what make, but nothing came up.
I have the older VAGCOM 409.1-s, but don't believe I can scan with that.

I am getting my hands on the ross-tech Hev-V2 code reader soon. Do you think there could be code(s) stored without an EML?

Thanks

[burkey1]

So I ran a scan this evening using VCDS and 4 modules showed a malfunction.

09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: Malfunction 0010
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010

09 just looks like a single fault, 19 is because there is no connection to 56, and 56 is because its an aftermarket headunit
25 is the one that concerns me for now I think

Cleared all DTC's and 1 module remains with a malfunction (56 Radio still displaying "cannot be reached"

Fault from module 25 Immobilizer is below:
1 Fault Found:
9456681 - Key
B104C 29 [00001000] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 86
Reset counter: 211
Mileage: 145982 km
Date: 2024.10.25.
Time: 17:41:48

Am I right in saying there has been 86 instances of this intermittant fault recorded?

Side note:
Car is starting fine the last few days. I did have a poke in around the fuse/Relay box under driver footwell the other day and just pushed in all relay/fuses to ensure they were seated correctly. There is def some bodgery in there with some wires taped up (most likely aftermarket radio/reverse camera. I also found a small 15a fuse in the footwell but cant seem to find where it goes despite having the drawings:confused: - Thats for another day

Anyway, hope someone can assist - Is it the key emmitter or car reciever, Immobilizer or worse cluster as I have read about

Thanks in advance

Before clearing faults


Wednesday,22,January,2025,19:04:19:00009VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 License Plate: 141D47261
Mileage: 148090km-92018mi Repair Order:






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Chassis Type: 16-VW32 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 04 05 08 09 10 15 17 19 25 2B 44 56


VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 Mileage: 148090km-92018miles


01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: Malfunction 0010
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: Malfunction 0010
2B-Steer. Col. Lock -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CBZB) Labels:. 03F-906-070-CBZ.clb
Part No SW: 03F 906 070 CM HW: 03F 907 309 R
Component: SIMOS10.12AH10 5458
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 00000000000000 CVN: E99D14A0
Coding: 002500D6232400081000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070CM 004009
ROD: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070AA_004_VW32.rod
VCID: 6FED66BBB69D05EE22-803A
VINID: 9E69EAAAA046A957460842031CF2576B76


No fault code found.
Readiness: 0000 0000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 0AM-927-769.clb
Part No SW: 0AM 300 064 G HW: 0AM 927 769 D
Component: GSG DSG AG7 451 5202
Revision: 00045014 Serial number: CU502103035891
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 04940 001 00001
VCID: 326BAFCFAD2F68060D-8066


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 379 C HW: 5C0 907 379 C
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0156
Revision: 00H31001
Coding: F33B40F8092400FECF1302E790200080211000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J518) Labels:| 5K0-959-434.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 959 434 B HW: 5K0 959 434
Component: VWKESSYPQ35GP 086 1101
Revision: 00086000 Serial number: 0194133630 Dataset Number: 5C0116v____ 0001
Coding: 030C0C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_KESSYPQ35G A02013
ROD: EV_KESSYPQ35G_A02_VW32.rod
VCID: 3467A9D79F3B66361F-8060


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 044 P HW: 5C0 907 044 P
Component: Climatronic H03 0304
Revision: 00001K02
Coding: 3010013002
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00236
ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 937 090 C HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: BCM PQ25 Max3 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001 Serial number: 27013233130205
Coding: 6CB869780801080001A00F916CCB86D4F8C2670F60853901B2 A0140B0000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 220813 05 54 0403
Coding: 0B300A


Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 BT HW: 6R0 959 802 BT Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
Component: J386__TSG_FT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU005061300014029
Coding: 0DBC34


Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 BS HW: 6R0 959 801 BS Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
Component: J387__TSG_BT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU003061300016729
Coding: 0DBC34


1 Fault Found:
00077 - Windshield Wiper Stop Switch (F229)
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 3
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 194
Mileage: 147890 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.05.29.
Time: 01:58:02




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446) Labels:| 1Q0-919-475.clb
Part No SW: 5C5 919 475 A HW: 7E0 919 475 A
Component: PARKHILFE 8K H10 0007
Revision: -------- Serial number: 83481326800115
Coding: 108101
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000 001004
ROD: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000.rod
VCID: 3169A0C36029531E74-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 F HW: 5C0 959 655 F
Component: AirbagVW10 014 0613
Serial number: 003JQM02CUD+ Dataset Number: 5C5003v____ 0101
Coding: 0000424C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01014
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
VCID: 356194D394417F3E28-8060


Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3572MSME6E56757CZZZC


Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Beif.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3582MSME6656757CZZZ5


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 5C5 920 860 J HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: KOMBI H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 550A00
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10 A04752
ROD: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10_A04_VW12.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001
Coding: 402100
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 70EF65C7A3A31A163B-8024


1 Fault Found:
01304 - Radio
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 254
Reset counter: 218
Mileage: 129363 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2016.09.14.
Time: 14:40:40




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: IMMO H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 000007
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10 A01702
ROD: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10_VW12.rod
VCID: 6ADB77AF8D7FE0C675-803E


1 Fault Found:
9456681 - Key
B104C 29 [00001000] - Implausible Signal
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 86
Reset counter: 211
Mileage: 145982 km
Date: 2024.10.25.
Time: 17:41:48




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764) Labels:* 5K0-905-861.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 905 861 C HW: 5K0 905 861 C
Component: ELV-PQ35 H21 0240
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 13000171646001
Coding: 4900000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X A01001
ROD: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69 3501
Revision: 00H22000
Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
VCID: 397998E370599B5ECC-806C


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 03:10)--------------------------




After clearing faults


Wednesday,22,January,2025,21:19:55:00009VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 License Plate: 141D47261
Mileage: 148090km-92018mi Repair Order:






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Chassis Type: 16-VW32 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 04 05 08 09 10 15 17 19 25 2B 44 56


VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 Mileage: 148090km-92018miles


01-Engine -- Status: OK 0000
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: OK 0000
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2B-Steer. Col. Lock -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 0010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CBZB) Labels:. 03F-906-070-CBZ.clb
Part No SW: 03F 906 070 CM HW: 03F 907 309 R
Component: SIMOS10.12AH10 5458
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 00000000000000 CVN: E99D14A0
Coding: 002500D6232400081000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070CM 004009
ROD: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070AA_004_VW32.rod
VCID: 6FED66BBB69D05EE22-803A
VINID: 9E69EAAAA046A957460842031CF2576B76


No fault code found.
Readiness: 0110 0101


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 0AM-927-769.clb
Part No SW: 0AM 300 064 G HW: 0AM 927 769 D
Component: GSG DSG AG7 451 5202
Revision: 00045014 Serial number: CU502103035891
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 04940 001 00001
VCID: 326BAFCFAD2F68060D-8066


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 379 C HW: 5C0 907 379 C
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0156
Revision: 00H31001
Coding: F33B40F8092400FECF1302E790200080211000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J518) Labels:| 5K0-959-434.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 959 434 B HW: 5K0 959 434
Component: VWKESSYPQ35GP 086 1101
Revision: 00086000 Serial number: 0194133630 Dataset Number: 5C0116v____ 0001
Coding: 030C0C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_KESSYPQ35G A02013
ROD: EV_KESSYPQ35G_A02_VW32.rod
VCID: 3467A9D79F3B66361F-8060


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 044 P HW: 5C0 907 044 P
Component: Climatronic H03 0304
Revision: 00001K02
Coding: 3010013002
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00236
ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 937 090 C HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: BCM PQ25 Max3 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001 Serial number: 27013233130205
Coding: 6CB869780801080001A00F916CCB86D4F8C2670F60853901B2 A0140B0000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 220813 05 54 0403
Coding: 0B300A


Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 BT HW: 6R0 959 802 BT Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
Component: J386__TSG_FT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU005061300014029
Coding: 0DBC34


Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 BS HW: 6R0 959 801 BS Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
Component: J387__TSG_BT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU003061300016729
Coding: 0DBC34


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446) Labels:| 1Q0-919-475.clb
Part No SW: 5C5 919 475 A HW: 7E0 919 475 A
Component: PARKHILFE 8K H10 0007
Revision: -------- Serial number: 83481326800115
Coding: 108101
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000 001004
ROD: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000.rod
VCID: 3169A0C36029531E74-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 F HW: 5C0 959 655 F
Component: AirbagVW10 014 0613
Serial number: 003JQM02CUD+ Dataset Number: 5C5003v____ 0101
Coding: 0000424C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01014
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
VCID: 356194D394417F3E28-8060


Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3572MSME6E56757CZZZC


Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Beif.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3582MSME6656757CZZZ5


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 5C5 920 860 J HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: KOMBI H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 550A00
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10 A04752
ROD: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10_A04_VW12.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001
Coding: 402100
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 70EF65C7A3A31A163B-8024


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: IMMO H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 000007
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10 A01702
ROD: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10_VW12.rod
VCID: 6ADB77AF8D7FE0C675-803E


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764) Labels:* 5K0-905-861.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 905 861 C HW: 5K0 905 861 C
Component: ELV-PQ35 H21 0240
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 13000171646001
Coding: 4900000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X A01001
ROD: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69 3501
Revision: 00H22000
Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
VCID: 397998E370599B5ECC-806C


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:58)--------------------------

[Crasher]

When it doesn't start, does it start and cut out after a second or just crank?

[burkey1]

It just cranks. Only time it’s ever cut out was while driving and that was just twice

[Crasher]

Then the immobilser is not involved. Is the no start regular or random?

[burkey1]

I would say random, but appears to show up more when engine is warm. Have had to leave car parked overnight a few times and when we return in morn it fires up right away

[Crasher]

You could set yourself up in a position to check the cranking RPM when it does not firse. Get it hot, put VCDS on and go into engine 01 measuring blocks 01 and look for the RPM reading, crank it over and if it doesn't start, keep cranking and wait for the ECU to reconnect and then see if you have a cranking value around 300rpm.

[burkey1]

Yes, I understand what you mean. I will try that next time it doesn't start - Guessing you are still thinking crank speed sensor which it could be of course.
Just out of curiosity, what does the immobilizer hold out. Ignition coil, fuel delivery etc..??

I was also going to complete a fuel rail pressure test on VCDS (see below link) - Basically this tests to ensure pressure is increasing when engine is switched off and when the car is up to temp. Might indicate a leaking issue if not performing as expected. Do you think its worth doing this?

- YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VOZ78XuWOY8)

[Crasher]

The immobilser in the instruments gives the engine ECU its run command, if the ECU does not get this it allows a start/stop so you know what you are dealing with.

[burkey1]

Car still starting OK, so havnt been able to Test engine RPM if cranking and not firing.
I completed a fuel rail pressure test with engine at full temp and all OK. Pressure increased almost 30% (approx 48bar to 62bar) when car at idle vs not running, which is an expected result.

I also went into advances measuring values in the Immobolizer module and checked every value in there that changed state when I start/stop the car.

List I got below is when the ignition in on, values are opposite when ignition is off. "Immoblizer challange" changes its 8 character code every time ignition on is activated:


Friday,24,January,2025,18:44:57:00009VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 License Plate: 141D47261
Mileage: immobilizer test Repair Order:






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Address 25: Immobilizer (5K0 953 234 )


18:43:48
ENG110115 Immobilizer Challenge E5 4B 52 BC
ENG109101-ENG151522 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG1 fragt an Yes
ENG109101-ENG151541 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG1-Passwort war gueltig Yes
ENG109101-ENG151546 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG1-Signatur war gueltig Yes
ENG109101-ENG151490 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG3 fragt an Yes
ENG109101-ENG151503 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG3-Passwort war gueltig Yes
ENG109101-ENG151499 Status of immobilizer slaves-MSG3-Signatur war gueltig Yes
ENG109101-ENG151465 Status of immobilizer slaves-Terminal 15 On

I did read a bit about how the immobilizer works and if its an issue the car should fire up and stop after a 1 second, if it stays running for 3 seconds or more before it cuts out then its prob not the immobilizer, so thanks Crasher for that diagnosis.

I now very much doubt it is the immoblizer, but I will check this anyway next time car wont fire.

[burkey1]

So car cut out on my wife while driving to work - When I got to car about 3 hours later it fired right up.
Let it run for about 10 min and switched off. Returned 10 min later and wouldn’t fire.

Checked engine rev as suggested when not firing and all OK - I even took a video of the graph and rev displaying approx 330 (and not blipping) so im guessing crank speed sensor ruled out - tried this 4 times and same result.

Eventually got it going and it drove about 1/2 mile and cut out. Had to get it toed from there.

I will say it is trying to fire if you leave it sit for a while, like if its just missing fuel/spark - I also checked condition of air filter last week and its spotless.

Completed an immobilizer test as I suggested above and all variables change when I turn ignition on/off so that looks good too.
Fuel pressure is present (approx.50bar) when cranking over.

Could it be the fuel filter? Other then that im at a loss.

Thanks

[Crasher]

The immobiliser will not cut the engine whist running, activated, it will let the engine run for a second and cut.

[burkey1]

Have been driving car for the last week or so myself as the wife wont drive it anymore - too scared.
Since last post genuine fuel filter fitted.

Car wouldnt fire today approx. 15 min after a short journey. Scanned car and there was an engine fault - See below
Not sure about the date of fault?? but milage is roughly 125km ago.


Thursday,06,February,2025,12:30:12:00009VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 License Plate: 142D47261
Mileage: Repair Order: engine fault






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Address 01: Engine Labels: 03F-906-070-CBZ.clb
Control Module Part Number: 03F 906 070 CM HW: 03F 907 309 R
Component and/or Version: SIMOS10.12AH10 5458
Software Coding: 002500D6232400081000
Work Shop Code: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070CM 004009 (VW32)
ROD: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070AA_004_VW32.rod
VCID: 6FED66BBB69D05EE22-803A
1 Fault Found:


6260 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 00 [00100000] - -
[New feature! Extended UDS fault detail is only supported by current gen. interfaces]
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 148202 km
Date: 2126.14.31
Time: 01:59:07


Engine RPM: 300.00 /min
Normed load value: 43.9 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 54 °C
Intake air temperature: 31 °C
Ambient air pressure: 990 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 10.722 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 24
CTR_RST_MC: 0
CTR_RST_MU: 0
Ambient temperature: 9.75 °C
Engine torque: 91.84375 Nm




Readiness: 0010 0001






Drove the car after it started and it cut out on me while driving - pulled in car and tried to get going again.

Not sure if this is normal, but I noticed that my fuel pressure each time I tried to start was jumping from high to low a lot - I know when it ticking over nicely its approx 45bar. It went as low as 20bar and as high as 125bar. Pressure wouldnt change while cranking over but would change from crank attempt to attempt.

I then ran another full scan and got the following - First time seeing a crank sensor issue, but i checked rpm several times today while cranking and it always read a steady value even on a graph.


Thursday,06,February,2025,13:14:37:00009VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 10 x64
VCDS Version: 24.7.1.0 (x64)
Data version: 20240919 DS356.3
www.Ross-Tech.com




VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 License Plate: 142D47261
Mileage: 148320km-92161mi Repair Order: engine cut out while driving






--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------




Chassis Type: 16-VW32 (6N0)
Scan: 01 02 03 04 05 08 09 10 15 17 19 25 2B 44 56


VIN: WVWZZZ16ZEM624837 Mileage: 148320km-92161miles


01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
02-Auto Trans -- Status: OK 0000
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
04-Steering Angle -- Status: OK 0000
05-Acc/Start Auth. -- Status: OK 0000
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
10-Park/Steer Assist -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: Malfunction 0010
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
2B-Steer. Col. Lock -- Status: Malfunction 0010
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: Malfunction 1010

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine (J623-CBZB) Labels:. 03F-906-070-CBZ.clb
Part No SW: 03F 906 070 CM HW: 03F 907 309 R
Component: SIMOS10.12AH10 5458
Revision: --H10--- Serial number: 00000000000000 CVN: E99D14A0
Coding: 002500D6232400081000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070CM 004009
ROD: EV_ECM12TFS02103F906070AA_004_VW32.rod
VCID: 6FED66BBB69D05EE22-803A
VINID: 9E69EAAAA046A957460842031CF2576B76


1 Fault Found:
6112 - Crankshaft Position Sensor (G28)
P0336 00 [01100000] - Missing Tooth
Intermittent - Not Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Mileage: 148320 km
Date: 2025.02.06.
Time: 01:06:49


Engine RPM: 124.00 /min
Normed load value: 55.3 %
Vehicle speed: 0 km/h
Coolant temperature: 57 °C
Intake air temperature: 33 °C
Ambient air pressure: 1030 mbar
Voltage terminal 30: 12.128 V
Unlearning counter according OBD: 40
Time since engine start: 0.0 s
Engine torque: 114.21875 Nm
Accelerator pedal travel-Accelerator position: 0.00 %
Ignition angle of current cylinder: actual value-Ignition angle: actual: 4.500 °


Readiness: 0110 0101


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 02: Auto Trans Labels: 0AM-927-769.clb
Part No SW: 0AM 300 064 G HW: 0AM 927 769 D
Component: GSG DSG AG7 451 5202
Revision: 00045014 Serial number: CU502103035891
Coding: 0000020
Shop #: WSC 04940 001 00001
VCID: 326BAFCFAD2F68060D-8066


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes (J104) Labels:. 1K0-907-379-60EC1F.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 379 C HW: 5C0 907 379 C
Component: ESP MK60EC1 H31 0156
Revision: 00H31001
Coding: F33B40F8092400FECF1302E790200080211000
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00101101
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 207
Mileage: 148320 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.06.30.
Time: 01:08:51


Freeze Frame:
Count: 16384
Count: 14
Count: 4096
Count: 8196
Count: 42240
Count: 0
Count: 65024
Count: 1024




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 05: Acc/Start Auth. (J518) Labels:| 5K0-959-434.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 959 434 B HW: 5K0 959 434
Component: VWKESSYPQ35GP 086 1101
Revision: 00086000 Serial number: 0194133630 Dataset Number: 5C0116v____ 0001
Coding: 030C0C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00000
ASAM Dataset: EV_KESSYPQ35G A02013
ROD: EV_KESSYPQ35G_A02_VW32.rod
VCID: 3467A9D79F3B66361F-8060


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC (J255) Labels:| 5K0-907-044.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 907 044 P HW: 5C0 907 044 P
Component: Climatronic H03 0304
Revision: 00001K02
Coding: 3010013002
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 00236
ASAM Dataset: EV_Climatronic A01010
ROD: EV_ClimaAutoBasis_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. (J519) Labels:. 7H0-937-08x-09.clb
Part No SW: 7H0 937 090 C HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: BCM PQ25 Max3 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001 Serial number: 27013233130205
Coding: 6CB869780801080001A00F916CCB86D4F8C2670F60853901B2 A0140B0000
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 2E53BBBF79174CE669-807A


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 AH Labels: 1K0-955-559-AG.CLB
Component: RLS 220813 05 54 0403
Coding: 0B300A


Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 802 BT HW: 6R0 959 802 BT Labels: 6R0-959-802.CLB
Component: J386__TSG_FT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU005061300014029
Coding: 0DBC34


Subsystem 3 - Part No SW: 6R0 959 801 BS HW: 6R0 959 801 BS Labels: 6R0-959-801.CLB
Component: J387__TSG_BT 002 2661
Serial number: KU0KU003061300016729
Coding: 0DBC34


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 10: Park/Steer Assist (J446) Labels:| 1Q0-919-475.clb
Part No SW: 5C5 919 475 A HW: 7E0 919 475 A
Component: PARKHILFE 8K H10 0007
Revision: -------- Serial number: 83481326800115
Coding: 108101
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000 001004
ROD: EV_EPHVA18VW3240000.rod
VCID: 3169A0C36029531E74-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags (J234) Labels:| 5K0-959-655.clb
Part No SW: 5C0 959 655 F HW: 5C0 959 655 F
Component: AirbagVW10 014 0613
Serial number: 003JQM02CUD+ Dataset Number: 5C5003v____ 0101
Coding: 0000424C
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00073
ASAM Dataset: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360 A01014
ROD: EV_AirbaVW10SMEVW360.rod
VCID: 356194D394417F3E28-8060


Crash sensor for side airbag: driver side:
Subsystem 1 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Fahr.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3572MSME6E56757CZZZC


Front Passenger's Side Airbag Crash Sensor:
Subsystem 2 - Part No SW: 5K0 959 354 HW: 5K0 959 354
Component: S.Sens.Beif.V H02 ----
Serial number: 3582MSME6656757CZZZ5


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments (J285) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-17.clb-SRI1
Part No SW: 5C5 920 860 J HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: KOMBI H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 550A00
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10 A04752
ROD: EV_KombiUDSMM9RM10_A04_VW12.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway (J533) Labels:. 6N0-909-901-6R.clb
Part No SW: 6N0 909 901 HW: 7H0 937 090 A
Component: GW-K-CAN TP20 H74 0712
Revision: B8074001
Coding: 402100
Shop #: WSC 00066 123 12345
VCID: 70EF65C7A3A31A163B-8024


2 Faults Found:
01044 - Control Module Incorrectly Coded
000 - - - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100000
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 255
Mileage: 148202 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.06.21.
Time: 01:35:19


01304 - Radio
004 - No Signal/Communication - Intermittent
Freeze Frame:
Fault Status: 00100100
Fault Priority: 2
Fault Frequency: 48
Reset counter: 247
Mileage: 148202 km
Time Indication: 0
Date: 2019.06.21.
Time: 01:56:31




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer (J334) Labels:| 5K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 953 234 HW: 5C5 920 860 J
Component: IMMO H30 0204
Revision: X0030002 Serial number:
Coding: 000007
Shop #: WSC 00066 000 00126
ASAM Dataset: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10 A01702
ROD: EV_ImmoUDSMM9RM10_VW12.rod
VCID: 6ADB77AF8D7FE0C675-803E


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 2B: Steer. Col. Lock (J764) Labels:* 5K0-905-861.clb
Part No SW: 5K0 905 861 C HW: 5K0 905 861 C
Component: ELV-PQ35 H21 0240
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: 13000171646001
Coding: 4900000000000000
Shop #: WSC 00066 790 50316
ASAM Dataset: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X A01001
ROD: EV_ELVMarquMPVW36X_VW32.rod
VCID: 306FA5C76B235A167B-8064


1 Fault Found:
1048845 - Starter Control; Returned Message
P3052 00 [00001000] - 50 Short to Plus
Intermittent - Confirmed - Tested Since Memory Clear
Freeze Frame:
Fault Priority: 6
Fault Frequency: 1
Reset counter: 247
Mileage: 148320 km
Date: 2025.02.06.
Time: 01:11:57


ELV State: 0D
Information Clamps: 07 10
CoCo State: 80 01
WFS State: 67 1A
Vehicle speed: 0.00 km/h
Voltage: 68




-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1K0-909-14x-GEN3.clb
Part No: 1K0 909 144 R
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl. 69 3501
Revision: 00H22000
Shop #: WSC 02069 000 90108
VCID: 397998E370599B5ECC-806C


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio
Cannot be reached


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 02:58)--------------------------




Thanks again for all the help

[burkey1]

Just a small update,

I ran another scan there before I tried to start car - 2 short journeys completed since last non fire issue.
No faults except the no communication to radio I have always had - aftermarket radio.

I switched on ingition and checked fuel pressure - pressure was only 6 bar.
I tried to start car and it wouldnt fire again. After not firing pressure went back to about 40bar and tried at least 10 more times to start car and it would not fire.

Attaching graph of car trying to fire monitoring voltage at terminal 30 (red), engine RPM (green) and fuel pressure (yellow).

39583

No idea why image is upside down:D

[Crasher]

You have your answer in the last scan, there is something wrong with the crank speed senders signal, if it is a new quality sensor, it could be the mag ring, has the clutch been changed?

[burkey1]

Hi, and thanks for the reply.

Ive have the car about 1.5 years and have not had clutches done - its a DSG and I read clutches are good for approx 200k.
Your going to have to excuse my ignorance in terms of Mag Ring. Not a term Ive heard of before. Be glad to be educated though:o

The graph I showed above displays about 10 start attempts in a row and the RPM in green always displays as approx. 300ish.
Would this not indicate speed sensor is OK?

Thanks

[Crasher]

Magnetic ring, this is part of the crankshaft oil seal and has to be extremely precisely pressed into position.For a crank sensor to appear as a fault at all is rare so something is wrong in there.

[burkey1]

OK,

So do you think one or more of the sensor pick up teeth on the crankshaft gear is broken or damaged?
I scanned again today after 2 days with no issue and no engine fault.

I found the wiring diagram (below) for this engines G28 sensor.
Do you think its worth checking?

Its got 3 wires connected to J623 (ECU). Looks like it shares a ground with G31 (charge pressure sender) and Im guessing one wire is a constant voltage and the other is a signal back to the ECU when the pick up teeth pass the sensor.

If I dissconnect the 60 pin connector to the ECU to test wire resistance, will that cause me issues?

thanks

Sorry, but I dont know how to add a clearer image and it said my attachment was too large at 127kb

39584

[Crasher]

The ring (it’s not magnetic on this one) isn’t like the old 60-2 design, just a pressed 60-2 ring, I can’t see it being the fault. Where did the new sensor come from? You have to get the chastity belt off the ECU to disconnect the plug, be extremely careful probing the plug pins as they are very delicate, I prefer to dismantle the plug and back probe.



https://digital-assets.tecalliance.services/images/3200/45e05d2046b30af8e92dbedc4ba4cb39a69fa76d.jpg?ver=3 .106.0.cfcfbe9ffe

[burkey1]

So back again unfortunatly. Checked wiring for crank sensor and appears to be all OK.
Cleaned out the throttle body and relearned via VCDS to just rule out this issue.

One thing I did notice was when I pulled the plug to the ignition coil (coil feeds all 4 plugs) that it turns over without firing as expected, but no fault appeared in VCDS and no engine light.

Coil in car is Eldor P/N 032905106e. Ive read in places that these coils can be troublesome - Is it worth replacing this and if so what is recommended? Bosch, NGK, BERU etc??

I spoke with another mechanic who thinks it could be the mechatronics in the gearbox that is causing the issue - he mentioned that there is an oil pump in the box that if not operting correctly can prevent the car from being in gear thus preventing it from starting - he said fault is not detected via VCDS. I would have thought there may be other issus too with box and there are none that I can tell

[Crasher]

Never heard that one, pinch of salt!