Imminent DPF failure or something else.

[Itsrainman]

Hello All,

I am lucky enough to own a 2014 pre facelift 2.0TDI. Which has just passed 1004000 miles. It has a full service history, even if some of this have been completed by myself :).

I have noted that over the last 10000 miles the MPG has dropped. Measured from about 620 Miles to the tank to about 570 and also that when stopping the engine appears to be going through a DPF regent a lot more often. Revs at 1000 and the fans on.

Last week I got a DPF error which so I put the car in sport mode an blasted up the motorway for about 20 miles. This cleared this. I drive about 500 miles per week mostly on motorway so the revs are generally below 2000.

How do I check the DPF Ash loading etc? I have access to VCDS. Do I need to worry as it seems to me there is a problem because of the decrease in MPG?

Many thanks

[Crasher]

1 million miles? If you go into advanced values and type in "filter" the ash mass and soot loading will be in the choices.

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher,

😳 104000 miles. Oil Ash Volume is 0.11l. Measured soot mass is 14.90g. Oil Ash volume is 47.9g. Differential pressure is 13hPa with engine on and at temperature. I have driven about 150 miles today and it was doing a regen this morning and when I got home. Just added some Winns DPF to the tank and took it for another blast to see if that makes a difference. A full scan shows no fault codes. Car seems to drive fine! MPG is getting worse with no real change in driving.

Any help is appreciated.

[Crasher]

The ash mass is getting towards half way which I think is 80 grams.

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher,

Many thanks. I’ll see how it goes over the next two or three tanks of fuels, keep on eye on the mpg and see what happens. It does use about 3-4 litre of oil between services. No oil leaks but has always done that. Had the car for 18 months and put 35000 miles on it. Always did 600-620 to a full tank. Today was 475 😳.

I suspect it may need a visit to a garage for a full check over.

[Jinxit]

Cold weather increases fuel consumption. I generally get 10 mpg less in winter. Pretty much all motorway driving 120 miles a day so I notice it.

[Elansear]

Hi Crasher,

Many thanks. I’ll see how it goes over the next two or three tanks of fuels, keep on eye on the mpg and see what happens. It does use about 3-4 litre of oil between services. No oil leaks but has always done that. Had the car for 18 months and put 35000 miles on it. Always did 600-620 to a full tank. Today was 475 .

I suspect it may need a visit to a garage for a full check over.
Hope you mean, three quarters of a litre, and not 3 to 4 litres...

[Itsrainman]

Just double checked with the 5l can Incan about. It used 2.75 litres since the last service and there is about 3000 miles until the next. Just assumed that’s what it always did. 😳

[Elansear]

Umm. Mine is only on 35k but never uses any oil. I know each engine is different but that dose sound like a lot of oil for what I assume is about 15k miles since the last oil change. Perhaps others could advise on there oil usage to see if yours is excessive.

[Whippy53]

Mines on 70k and oil levels never moved

[KevTrem]

My last A6 and current Allroad used about 800ml between 10k oil changes. Current Allroad is at 105k doing about 20k a year and towing a caravan (when allowed). Your 575 a tank is about what I see in temps above 5 degrees C, below that I'm down to approx 525, colder than 0 and I'm down to 500. This is what I also saw with my last A6.
I would give it a service, air filter and fuel filter should help, I've just changed my air filter last week after 40k miles (service life is 60k) and just changed my fuel filter after 20k miles.
Another thing to check is tracking, plenty pot holes around lately that could knock tracking off, also check tyre pressures and have a feel of each wheel after a drive to see if you have a sticky caliper, these all effect MPG.

[beemerboy9]

Hi Crasher,

It does use about 3-4 litre of oil between services..

How often are your services? Long Life at 19,000 miles?

[Itsrainman]

Services are using Shell Helix VW507 spec oil. Oil change is every 9000 miles service every 18000. Has used that amount of oil from the day I have owned it.

[Crasher]

The official point at which VAG get worried about oil consumption is 1 litre per 1000km which is 620 miles, personally I get worried at half that and I have seen some other VAG literature that also says 0.5L per 1000km as a maximum so with you being at circa 1800km per litre that is acceptable but as Elansear and Whippy point out, that is excessive and will put more soot, therefore ash, into the DPF.

[Itsrainman]

Hello All, the car continues to want to do lots of regenerations. I have tried a blast up the motorway in manual with the refs held at 3000. No change.

I’m also seeing a lot of white smoke and residue now when it’s regenerating which I assume is Ash. May have been there before but never noticed it.

I have checked the throttle body for clogging. It’s clean and operates correctly. However in Vcds I can’t get the EGR adaptation/test to run. It aborts almost immediately with aborted for safety reasons. Engine is off, coolant temp is 25deg.

The more I have read up about it the more I’m beginning to think the EGR valve is clogged. Is there anyway to prove this without removal and visual inspection?

Thanks

[Whippy53]

Have you had the emissions 'fix' done?

[Itsrainman]

Hello Whippy53. There is information from the previous owner that the emissions fix was applied. Been into Audi since I owned it for cam belt and gearbox service so I have to assume it has been done. I have done the last 4-5 services myself. Capable of doing the timing belt etc but it was done under warranty from the seller. Also don’t see point in doing gearbox myself as it’s just not worth the hassle.

So car has had emissions fix and also has a full service history.

[philipharmes]

What is the engine code ?

[Whippy53]

Hello Whippy53. There is information from the previous owner that the emissions fix was applied. Been into Audi since I owned it for cam belt and gearbox service so I have to assume it has been done. I have done the last 4-5 services myself. Capable of doing the timing belt etc but it was done under warranty from the seller. Also don’t see point in doing gearbox myself as it’s just not worth the hassle.

So car has had emissions fix and also has a full service history.

Ok, it's that there's a lot of chatter out there from people who have had 'the fix' saying "oh nos, it done break my EGR", and similar. Also lots of reports of it increasing the number of regeneration cycles. So there's that.....

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/dieselgate-readers-complain-new-issues-vw-fix/

[Itsrainman]

Think the engine code is CGLC

Is it possible to have the software update removed?

[Whippy53]

Apparently not. Although someone else may know differently.

[philipharmes]

I think you are probably correct that the EGR is clogged & probably sticking open at times.

Was going to suggest you try one of these :- 11. EGR Diagnostic Simulator Plate for VW Audi Skoda Seat 2.0 TDI CR II Euro 5 | eBay (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/11-EGR-AGR-Emulator-Simulator-Plate-for-VW-Audi-Skoda-Seat-2-0-TDI-CR-II-Euro-5/183869556154?hash=item2acf7ac5ba:g:OaAAAOSw-DRdHK14&mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=710-53481-19255-0&campid=5336836713&toolid=10001&customid=38947X1001323X5c65eeb7392311af27427594a8f 0402d)
but it doesn't mention your engine code.
Think it would probably work, as there can't be much difference between all the EA189 engines.

Otherwise you'll have to dig deep & get a new EGR fitted.

[Whippy53]

As far as I am aware the 'fix' basically stops the ultra lean burn and it does it by the simple expedient of increased fueling. More fuel = more carbon and greater loads on EGR and DPF as well as increasing fuel usage.

[Roverfan]

If you have vcds you can confirm the rate of regens through kilometers since last regen and time since last regen. Keeping an eye on the rate may help determine if the symptoms are from regens or something else

[Itsrainman]

Hello All, does anyone know what brand is fitted by Audi. Seems a lot out there.

[Itsrainman]

I think it might be this part. Well know auction site shows valeo https://m.*******.co.uk/valeo/1093912

[Itsrainman]

Well, thought I would take the EGR valve if today to have a look and make a decision on a new one. Got a price from VW, special order so you can’t return. 😬

Basically gave up as I could not get the bottom screw holding the EGR valve in pace out. Managed to undo everything else 🤬.

So out back together. Still runs Phew. Going to book into an independent for a diagnosis next week. Although with the described issue they believe it’s probably the EGR as well. What is the time required to exchange?

[Itsrainman]

Hello All,

So took her to an independat, which did not charge me when I explained the issue and what I had done :). Their suggestion was to change the DPF pressure sensor, perform a learn and force a regen. So did all that an no change.. 800 miles late in a week across multple road types and a significant run at 2500 RPM with no drop and there is no change. Tonight measure a number of values using VCDS across dual carriage way and sitting in traffice and the below is what I got.
37978

This is the four exhuast gas temp sensor values, i assume mine does not have no 2! Temp 1 seems to jump around a lot but no idea if that is normal.

Indie beleives I need a new DPF!

[Roverfan]

If you are losing some oil, and have some smoke I'd check the turbo seals both sides.
However the check itself may require gasket and oring replacements/consideration otherwise they can cause problems down the line

[Crasher]

What are the ash and soot mass figures?

[Itsrainman]

Hello Crasher, so soot mass measured starts off about 9.50g and rises to 15 with then a jump to 21. It then starts to decay to 13 at the end of the measurement. Ash measure to follow.

[Itsrainman]

If I have read it correctly 48g

[Itsrainman]

So today I have purchase an hour of the Audi on line system and printed off all the procedures for my vehicle.

One of these was a test of the EGR vacuum valve. As this was an easy test I tried this today and can confirm the valve holds a vacuum but there is no movement of the arm. This leads me to believe the EGR assay is faulty. Strange as it passes the VCDS EGR test.

Would anyone have any experience of this test?

Many thanks.

[Crasher]

At 48g it is too high to allow a forced regeneration, the DPF needs to come off and be cleaned by DPF Clean Team and when refitted, a new genuine pressure sensor fitted, calibrated and THEN a forced regeneration carried out.

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher, many thanks for that news :(

I’ll double check the Ash value tomorrow to be 100%. It’s very possible I have measured the incorrect value.

By the sound of it the EGR valve is faulty as well :(

[Itsrainman]

Hello Crasher again.

From my earlier post details below.

Measured soot mass is 14.90g. Oil Ash volume is 47.9g.

I’ll try and post some screen shots tomorrow.

[Crasher]

The oil as (soot) is over the point at the ECU will allow a forced regeneration, the DPF needs to be removed and cleaned, THEN a forced regeneration carried out.

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher,

Car booked for Friday. Will see what they say. Hopeful not too terminal.

[Steven715]

Hi Crasher,

Car booked for Friday. Will see what they say. Hopeful not too terminal.

Good luck, hope all will be good after a chemical clean.


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[Crasher]

Good luck, hope all will be good after a chemical clean

Well my cat has been so far, the one in the picture... £471 for an enema... :bigeyes: and you thought garages knew how to charge!

[Steven715]

Well my cat has been so far, the one in the picture... £471 for an enema... :bigeyes: and you thought garages knew how to charge!

[emoji50] ouch I’m sure it was worth it [emoji846]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

He is.

[c..corgill]

was 1 of Bonds enemies involved?

[Whippy53]

He is.

Is he a Maine Coon? Or just Mr Fluffy.

[Crasher]

Norwegian Forest cat, just over 10kg, called Sprocket

[Whippy53]

Wow! Lovely boy!

[Itsrainman]

Luckily for me my ‘CAT’ was not so expensive :)

Problem with wiring to the DPF pressure sensor. Resolved and a full DPF static regen and forced regen run. Seems ok now but recommend a full service as the oil is really thin because of the amount of regens. After discussing with the technician we have come to the conclusion that temperature sensor 1 is acting a bit odd and so need to change that. Think it’s the one on the Turbo. Any idea on the part number?

[Crasher]

I had a 2016 SQ5 in today, the DPF is loaded at 21% and needs a forced regeneration. I tried this with VCDS and it would not respond so I resorted to ODIS at 10 Euro an hour, this went straight in and then asked me if I had fitted blocking tool T14 something or other into each rear silencer as the tailpipe gas temperatures of circa 500C will damage the rear silencer speakers, made by Bose. These are roughly £800 each and the tool £80 each so I would need two... I asked Audi and they said the tool does not guarantee no failure of the speakers and they will only fit a new DPF at £2200. The customer asked about cleaning and I said yes, that is what we always do BUT after cleaning we have to do a forced regeneration so 500C again... this is getting stupid! I really have had enough of this ****.

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher, I feel ur pain. How many people would have bought a car with these problems stored for the future. I almost feel like I should have carried on getting the cheaper car and not worrying about all these expensive fixes. Off to sort a new sensor now at circa £150.00 :(

Had a Ford Mondeo 2.2TDI before and apart from normal wear and tear cost less to buy and run than the Audi. Same Euro catergory and more miles!

[Itsrainman]

Is this the part number of the sensor for the turbo?

03l 906 088 be

[Crasher]

That is one of the EGT sensors, can’t tell which on my iPad.

[Itsrainman]

So….

After lots of reading on the internet and a number of DPF warnings on the dash, I decided to give it one last go and try and change the EGR.

Once the EGR valve was off, I stripped it down just to see..

It was totally jammed with soot on the top side with and the vacuum operated valve was also jammed. It also appears that the electronics function but the valve does not turn and hence no error. New valve fitted…

Original unit passed the VCDS tests!

Took the car for a test drive and noticeably different in acceleration.

Time will tell…

3810238103

[Crasher]

Did you deal with the DPF loading?

[Itsrainman]

I took the car to a VW specialist and they advised that it was ok. £270 later……

If it makes no difference then maybe I’ll investigate the cost of that and if too much then it will go to a well know internet purchasing site!

Any idea on cost to replace DPF?

[Crasher]

If a DPF cannot be cleaned by DPF Clean Team in Hinckley then we will only fit a genuine new or genuine used and cleaned DPF, I have tried aftermarket ones and in particular the same car and engine as you. The manufacturer offered two standards and we went for the higher, it lasted a week... after we had fitted FOUR more units over the space of a month, I called the manufacturer (they are local) and the chap said something like "ohh yeh, we have had 17 of those back this week". The reason we had fitted a new one was the EGT sensor galled it's thread and would not come out. I dug it out of the scrap pile (thankfully the scrap man had not been) drilled it out, Time Serted the thread and sent it to DPF Clean Team. When back I refitted it, did a forced regn and it has been fine for about three years now.

[Itsrainman]

So as Crasher thought. DPF needs cleaning replacing :(

[Crasher]

Home - DPF Clean Team (https://dpfcleanteam.co.uk/?gclid=CjwKCAjwieuGBhAsEiwA1Ly_nZFCBfulEY93psR4-X7P9DOIdm4x5M0I9J9zE_eoO370v2ERB2OPbBoC5swQAvD_BwE )

[Itsrainman]

Today, after a lot of thought and based on £650 plus already being spent on the car and that DPFCLEANTEAM are just around the corner from where my wife works I started the process of removing the DPF to send to them. So the question I have is when the Audi instructions say fill the turbo back with engine oil what do they actually mean and how much!

I assume it means pour some in to the top metal connector and do it back up.

I have been labelling every nut and bolt taken off and have a list of ones needing replacement so fingers crossed it’s nothing else.

What paste do I use when refitting the exhaust sensors?

On another note I assume this fixes the problems and aim to keep the car for at least another 60000+ miles so is it worth getting the turbo refurbished and replacing the sensors on the turbo and DPF while it’s all off?

[Crasher]

We use Wurth aluminium paste (sparingly) on sensor threads, after refitting a cleaned DPF MUST have a forced regeneration to finish the job.

[Crasher]

They mean fill the turbo bearing with some oil, most of which will drain out but you don’t need to disconnect the turbo.

[Itsrainman]

Cheers Crasher. I have moved the turbo out of the way and now understand what you mean. Everything is disconnected but for the life of me I can’t see how to get the flange that attaches the exhaust to the DPF past the steering column. Am I missing something as the Audi instructions don’t mention that.

[Crasher]

Personally I don’t do them, I supervise…:biglaugh: I think the lads drop them out from below.

[Itsrainman]

Only way I can see if dropping it from below is to remove the subframe. Would this mean I have to support the gearbox and or engine. ??? Lol. Really not designed to be worked on.

[Crasher]

A few years ago we had one in and out like a yo-yo and it wasn’t difficult

[Itsrainman]

So, 30 min break and assistance from my brother in law and out. Just beat the rain. :)

[Itsrainman]

Hi Crasher,

Quick question.

Once I have run the routine in VCDS to calibrate the new DPF pressure sensor. I can then run the engine, check for fluid leaks etc and then run the forced DPF regeneration. Is this a driving one or standing still one!

Does the standing still one do it itself or do I need to control the revs etc?

I suspect a lot of stuff is going to come out the exhaust so will probably move the car off the drive :)

Thanks T

[Crasher]

The standing still regen tends to be a bit useless, I do the driving one... gets me out of the workshop too.

[Itsrainman]

So…. DPF has been cleaned. Thanks for the recommendation Crasher. A fantastic service.

Just got to refit now…..

I understand that I need to complete the below in VCDS once all is back together.

Adaptation of Carbon Mass
Adaptation of differential pressure sensor.

As I have also replaced the EGR cooler the Audi instructions also state I should complete Adaption elec adjuster with check back.

I won’t be able to hook VCDS up until the car is back together but can someone point me in the right direction of where this function is in VCDS. I don’t seem to remember it being in the menus when I went though them before starting!

Many thanks

T

[Crasher]

It is under basic settings and adaption plus you need to login for some functions, help boxes should pop up.

[Itsrainman]

All refitted. New pressure sensor, seals, gaskets and bolts etc from Audi. Instructions from Crasher followed.

Adaptation of Carbon Mass
Adaptation of differential pressure sensor.
Also adapted the EGR value as this had been replaced.

Filled up with fuel and forced a regen. Light went out after 8 miles. Bonus.

Car appears all ok.

Thanks for all the help Crasher.

[Itsrainman]

So…. The saga continues. Today is the first chance I have had to go on a long drive. 150 miles and stopped at services. Engine at 1000RPM and fans running after turning off. Regen running.

Checked VCDS and get Exhaust Gas Recirculation Failed or Incomplete in Readiness.

Tried to run the EGR IDE00456 test and it fails with. Foot on brake and accelerator pressed. Aborted safety reasons. Engine is at 90deg.

Any ideas.

[Crasher]

Getting the readiness to not come up with that aborted message can be a trial. Ignition off, exit engine 01 and go back in with the engine running.

[Itsrainman]

Cheers Crasher. There were a number of fault codes which I assume were down to the repairs and sensors being disconnected etc. Forgot to clear these! Done that today, ran the car again for about 40 miles and checked and message has now gone.

However, it is still regenerating a lot. Unless I am over thinking it :(

Set off today am and drove about 80 miles. Mostly motorway and average speed so 60 mph. Pulled into services, smell of diesel and RPM at 1000. Engine off fans running. Drove a further 80 miles mostly motorway and A road. Again at the end smell of diesel and fans running. Tonight drove about 25 miles A and B road. Same again!

But from a full tank it looks like I will get about 600+ miles which is definitely an increase on the 400 before the clean.

Am I worrying over nothing? Just paranoid now!

ThankT

[Crasher]

Don't worry, just monitor... when a job has put you through the wringer you can become hyper sensitive; no codes or warnings is a good sign.