Car starts then stalls [VCDS READOUT inc]

[MrPresident]

Hi all, I'll keep it brief.

Last week during this phase of bitterly cold weather my car wouldn't start. The car would start for a few seconds then stall and the glow pplug light would constantly flash. I just assumed it was that and replaced all four glow plugs, some of which did measure high resistance. So after doing that and also charging up my battery to make sure. I tried to start the car multiple times today with no luck. Same running for a second then stalling.

This is the scan after I cleared all the DTC's so just the stuff that came back.

The car came with one key. A year or two ago I got a second key coded by a non-dealership company. Tried both keys and no luck with either.

I've noticed today along with the coil/glowplug light flashing the dash also says "dEF Safe"

I can post the VCDS scan prior to clearing the codes if that'll help

Any ideas with this? https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/styles/default/xenforo/asn/ad/frown.png
Thank you https://www.audi-sport.net/xf/styles/default/xenforo/clear.png


Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
67 69 75 76 77
VIN: WAUZZZ8E15A053662 Mileage: 347210km-215746miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-019-AVF.lbl
Part No: 038 906 019 LJ
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC 0000SG 5934
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 6A8C35B01566962BCD6-4B1E
WAUZZZ8E15A053662 AUZ6Z0D0266042

1 Fault Found:
17978 - Engine Start Blocked by Immobilizer
P1570 - 35-00 -
Readiness: 0 0 1 1 1

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 517
Component: ABS/ESP front 4529
Coding: 04255
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 6596468CFC78B953E04-51CE

1 Fault Found:
01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 AA
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1424
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 60985798E35ADC7B132-5160

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 F
Component: int. Lastmodul RDW 0517
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 3536D6CC0C5809D3904-4B00

1 Fault Found:
01794 - Control Module - Incorrect Chassis (VIN) Number
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 655 J
Component: Airbag 8.4EP 1002
Coding: 0010602
Shop #: WSC 63251 000 00000
VCID: 3E24C9E03C6ECA8B41E-5184

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 S
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0611
Coding: 01012
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 43D2B814528CA7632E0-4B00

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 920 950 M
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D42
Coding: 00401
Shop #: WSC 00001
VCID: 3332E8D4022C17E3BE0-5184
WAUZZZ8E15A053662 AUZ6Z0D0266042

2 Faults Found:
01177 - Engine Control Unit
65-10 - Unauthorized - Intermittent
65535 - Internal Control Module Memory Error
00-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.lbl
Part No: 8E0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw. 0704
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 6B8230B41A9C8F23B60-5118

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:. 8E0-959-433-MIN.clb
Part No: 8E0 959 433 BD
Component: Komfortgerát TBF 1712
Coding: 07147
Shop #: WSC 00673
VCID: 74B02BC847A250DB67A-4B00

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802B
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0205

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801B
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0205

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 8E0 035 186 D
Component: concert II GRO 0004
Coding: 01001
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 28080FB8CBDA643B1B2-4B00

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 76: Park Assist Labels: 8Z0-919-283.lbl
Part No: 8Z0 919 283 A
Component: Parkingsyst. A4 RDW D09
Coding: 00114
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 43D2B81452BCA7632E0-5160

No fault code found.

End----------(Elapsed Time: 05:40, VBatt start/end: 12.4V/12.4V)-----------

[Crasher]

The “def” message means the instrument cluster is defective and will have to be repaired or replaced, the immobiliser is integral with the cluster BUT it does not mean the key or reader coil are not also faulty.

[MrPresident]

The “def” message means the instrument cluster is defective and will have to be repaired or replaced, the immobiliser is integral with the cluster BUT it does not mean the key or reader coil are not also faulty.

Thanks for the reply Crasher, Do you know if the cluster can be replaced and re-programmed with VCDS? If so, I should be able to grab a second hand cluster off ebay for reasonable ££ I'm guessing.

I've been spending a whole lot on this car and it's on the verge of being made into tin cans at this point haha.

[Crasher]

A replacement cluster can no longer be matched to the key and the engine ECU using VCDS as the old seven digit SKC method has been dropped. In theory the four digit PIN can be retrieved but often this does not work but some mobile key specialists do have the kit (typically VAG TACHO) to do this but it rarely worked for me so now I use the VAG dealer system ODIS and even that struggles if the used cluster has VIN based component protection which yours does. Unfortunately the cluster for your car 8E0 920 950 MX went obsolete from the mainstream VAG parts system last April and it is not yet available on Audi Tradition and if it was you would still be stuck because at the moment they are not accepting orders from the UK! I think your easiest solution is to see if a car electronics repair service such as http://www.bba-reman.com can help as they SHOULD be able to retain the immobiliser coding.

[MrPresident]

A replacement cluster can no longer be matched to the key and the engine ECU using VCDS as the old seven digit SKC method has been dropped. In theory the four digit PIN can be retrieved but often this does not work but some mobile key specialists do have the kit (typically VAG TACHO) to do this but it rarely worked for me so now I use the VAG dealer system ODIS and even that struggles if the used cluster has VIN based component protection which yours does. Unfortunately the cluster for your car 8E0 920 950 MX went obsolete from the mainstream VAG parts system last April and it is not yet available on Audi Tradition and if it was you would still be stuck because at the moment they are not accepting orders from the UK! I think your easiest solution is to see if a car electronics repair service such as http://www.bba-reman.com can help as they SHOULD be able to retain the immobiliser coding.


Wow, thank you for the fast and detailed response, as you know a heck load more than me, how much would you estimate resolving something like this costing if you had to guess? I have no idea but I'm wondering if it's time for a new car as this audi has been a lot of trouble and don't know if its worth saving as I feel like electrical problems are big ££££ to resolve.

What should I ask from http://www.bba-reman.com, send them my cluster for repair right?

[MrPresident]

Just called them, sounded like it'd be a few hundred to sort it possibly but upon looking them up the reviews seem dreadful https://uk.trustpilot.com/review/shop.bba-reman.com

do you know of anyone using them successfully?

[Crasher]

They went through a bit of a nightmare a year or so back, the US operation collapsed apparently due to mismanagement and it took Chris Swan some huge effort to get it back on its feet, you could try mail (https://www.actronics.co.uk) but they have messed me around in the past; basically all these companies are working on a knife edge and it is only going to get worse as cars fall into the so called "electronics legacy trap". Your car is only sixteen years old and already an operation critical component is obsolete. We had a lovely condition A4 estate 96 1.8 20v we used as a loan car but we missed that the plenum chamber was blocked and water got into the passengers side. We dried everything out but a year or so later the left side impact air bag crash sensor failed due to corrosion of the pins, it was a 1996 only part and completely impossible to find so the car had to be scrapped. I could have disabled the side air bags and got the light to go out but if we lent it to someone and they were in an accident where the airbag would help them, we would be in deep ****. The same is going to happen with 8+ year old electric cars when the battery fails, they will be scrapped and that is NOT environmentally friendly!

[MrPresident]

They went through a bit of a nightmare a year or so back, the US operation collapsed apparently due to mismanagement and it took Chris Swan some huge effort to get it back on its feet, you could try mail (https://www.actronics.co.uk) but they have messed me around in the past; basically all these companies are working on a knife edge and it is only going to get worse as cars fall into the so called "electronics legacy trap". Your car is only sixteen years old and already an operation critical component is obsolete. We had a lovely condition A4 estate 96 1.8 20v we used as a loan car but we missed that the plenum chamber was blocked and water got into the passengers side. We dried everything out but a year or so later the left side impact air bag crash sensor failed due to corrosion of the pins, it was a 1996 only part and completely impossible to find so the car had to be scrapped. I could have disabled the side air bags and got the light to go out but if we lent it to someone and they were in an accident where the airbag would help them, we would be in deep ****. The same is going to happen with 8+ year old electric cars when the battery fails, they will be scrapped and that is NOT environmentally friendly!


Yeah that explains all the reviews, its so sad this is happening, I absolutely hate waste which is why I am finding it so hard to "just scrap the car" as everyone is telling me. Funny enough you mention the plenum chamber issue. I can't recall when exactly but mine was flooded July last year. Managed to dry out the car and resolve it as ABS kept flagging up due to moisture.

Honestly I've looked into "hot-wiring" the car. I'd be happy if I can just get it running, I will never sell this car and would be happy with just a door key for security.

I did find a website that has more reputable reviews and they offer an Immobliser Removing service. I wonder if this would fix my issue though or if the cluster would still play up i don't know. (edit, forget this I don't think my ecu is compatible upon checking )
Audi A4 Immobiliser Removing Service (Free Running) (https://www.autotronics.co.uk/product/audi-a4-immobiliser-removing-service-free-running)

[MrPresident]

Crasher,

Somethings just come to memory but I'm not sure if you think it makes no difference. But A while ago my car had an issue where I'd go to start it and it would start then stall occasionally but would always startup the second or third time. Same glowplug flash i think if i remember correctly but again, it always worked after the first attempt and only happened every so often and evenutally seemed to dissapear.

[Crasher]

Yes you can remove the immobilser from the ECU, I don't as it is a bodge and the cluster may show other errors.

[MrPresident]

Yes you can remove the immobilser from the ECU, I don't as it is a bodge and the cluster may show other errors.

That's fair enough, dont want any errors that could end up failing the MOT.


I found this video from January 2020, I think i was having the intermittent issue around that time and I started making recordings to try catch it although i think this recording was after it had failed to start once. not sure if this changes anything?


https://streamable.com/v8wo0r

My remote key also doesn't pair to the car.

[MrPresident]

Yes you can remove the immobilser from the ECU, I don't as it is a bodge and the cluster may show other errors.Bodge indeed. I bought a "immo off" ECU. The car starts now but unfortunately after driving for say 5-10 min the Airbag light comes on.

The car has a fresh MOT on it. I could live with the bodge until that runs out. My biggest concern is safety though. I do not want to drive a car that won't deploy it's air bags and the MIL isn't comforting. I think it's flagging up because the cluster is corrupt. Now there's a new ECU and the VIN protection is throwing a fit.

Any ideas?



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[franko180]

Bodge indeed. I bought a "immo off" ECU. The car starts now but unfortunately after driving for say 5-10 min the Airbag light comes on.

The car has a fresh MOT on it. I could live with the bodge until that runs out. My biggest concern is safety though. I do not want to drive a car that won't deploy it's air bags and the MIL isn't comforting. I think it's flagging up because the cluster is corrupt. Now there's a new ECU and the VIN protection is throwing a fit.

Any ideas?


MrPresident do you still have the A4 and are you still driving it with the Immo defeated ECU and faulty instrument cluster? The cluster part number given in your VCDS scan "8E0 920 950 M" is commonly available on eBay, I could code a used cluster to your A4 and set the mileage to match the original cluster. I'm based in the midlands, no idea if this helps or not.

[MrPresident]

Apologies for the delayed response I have not been active. That's very kind of you. I managed in the end to buy a second hand cluster and I can't remeber exactly what I did now but I managed to retrieve the SKC from the orignal ECU then I re-programmed the new cluster and keys and it worked fine with VCDS and this other software I found on a forum. Wish I'd written down exactly what I Did as it was years ago and I've forgotten.

I even bought an EEPROM reader and was going to try repair the original cluster as it was just corrupted eeprom chip. As a learning experience as I initally phoned round many specialists across the country and all of them said they couldn't do the repair.