won't start (no cranking) 53 plate 1.9tdi

[ianlovatt]

I'm back on here sooner than I expected! Disaster has struck this morning. Car was out for a short drive to local shops last night fine. This morning it won't start. Dash lights up as usual. Headlights have plenty of oomph but nothing happens when you turn the key.

I tried disconnecting the battery and reconnecting to see if that woke some software up somewhere but no change.

I've had a look on a few other threads but they all seem to have the engine cranking. There is nothing happening here. Car is parked slightly uphill on our drive.

I've read about the "plenum chamber" causing grief to people in the past and see that there is some water in ours which I assume shouldn't be there?
Shared album - ian lovatt - Google Photos (https://photos.app.goo.gl/eiXuQzXVCnJ3W8vH8)

I've read the fault codes and the new additions seem to be

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 517
Component: ABS/ESP front 4329
Coding: 04255
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 65C61642FFC98BAE80-5120


1 Fault Found:
01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
35-00 - -


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 AC
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1219
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 62CC0D5EEEE7FC9665-5178


1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-00 - Implausible Signal


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Can anyone advise what to do/test next please?

Any advice appreciated,
Ian


PS I will go off to continue looking over old threads to try to solve this without bothering anyone but any shortcuts would be great cheers

[ianlovatt]

My problem isn't intermittent but maybe the "starter exciter" mentioned in here is something for me to look at?
Question Audi A4 Avant B6 2002 1.9tdi intermittent starting (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/176065-Audi-A4-Avant-B6-2002-1-9tdi-intermittent-starting?highlight=won%27t+start)

Ian

[ianlovatt]

Also no damp in either footwells as far as I can tell but the water in the plenum chamber sounds like something I need to rule out. I'm hoping this is the definitive thread on how to go about sorting that
Battery tray swimming pool. (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/191357-Battery-tray-swimming-pool?highlight=plenum)

[arman123]

check wiring on starter

[a4cvt]

Maybe the slight incline has made the sludge in the bottom of the battery short out some of the battery cells. There may be enough power in the battery to light up the low powered displays but will not crank the starter motor. I would suggest you connect a volt meter to the battery and turn on everything you can to drain the voltage and see what reading you get.

[arman123]

or try jump starting it

[ianlovatt]

Thanks for the replies. Checking wiring on starter sounds like a good thing to do. Hopefully I can work out how to do that.

The voltage on the battery sits at 12.6 then dropped to 12.3 when the key is turned but no big crippling current draw by the looks of it so I think I'm right in saying the battery isn't suffering from sludge moving. It's been parked on that same slope for the last 6 years.


Also do those fault codes i posted ring a bell with anyone?

Thanks
Ian

[a4cvt]

If your turning the key to start the car and voltage drops by 0.3 volt it would appear there is no load. If possible check Voltage at starter motor while starting car. Batteries normally sit about 13.2 volts when fully charged. At 12.6 volts the battery is on its way out.

[Crasher]

In that scan, about 75% of the cars controllers are not there, where are the engine, central electrics, incontinence system etc?

[ianlovatt]

where are the engine, central electrics, incontinence system etc?

Incontinence system? Don't appear to have one of those!

Finally worked out how to attach files to posts. Full scan should be attached. I didn't include the others as I didn't think they were relevant and hadn't changes in ages. If there's anything I should try with VCDS please let me know.


Wednesday,19,August,2020,11:49:31:43085
VCDS -- Windows Based VAG/VAS Emulator Running on Windows 8 x64
VCDS Version: 20.4.2.0 (x64)
Data version: 20200730 DS317.0
www.Ross-Tech.com


VIN: WAUZZZ8E74A074580 License Plate:
Mileage: 384730km-239060mi Repair Order:



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Chassis Type: 8E (8E - Audi A4/S4/RS4 B6/B7 (2001 > 2008))
Scan: 01 02 03 08 09 0F 11 15 16 17 18 25 36 37 45 46 55 56 57 65
67 69 75 76 77

VIN: WAUZZZ8E74A074580 Mileage: 384730km-239060miles
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 038-906-019-AVF.lbl
Part No: 038 906 019 LJ
Component: 1,9l R4 EDC G000SG 4910
Coding: 00002
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 6ADC657E16D7A4D6AD-4B18
WAUZZZ8E74A074580 AUZ6Z0C0230244

No fault code found.
Readiness: 0 0 0 0 0

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 8E0-614-517.lbl
Part No: 8E0 614 517
Component: ABS/ESP front 4329
Coding: 04255
Shop #: WSC 06435
VCID: 65C61642FFC98BAE80-5120

1 Fault Found:
01826 - Sensor for Steering Angle (G85); Supply Voltage Terminal 30
35-00 - -

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 8E0-820-043.lbl
Part No: 8E0 820 043 AC
Component: A4 Klimaautomat 1219
Coding: 00000
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 62CC0D5EEEE7FC9665-5178

1 Fault Found:
01206 - Signal for Duration of Ignition Off Time
27-00 - Implausible Signal

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels: 8E0-907-279-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 907 279 F
Component: int. Lastmodul RDW 0517
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 356686020FE93B2EF0-4B18

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 8E0-959-655-84.lbl
Part No: 8E0 959 655 B
Component: Airbag 8.4EP 3002
Coding: 0010602
Shop #: WSC 63251 000 00000
VCID: 3664810E42EF3036F9-515A

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 8E0-953-549.lbl
Part No: 8E0 953 549 N
Component: Lenksáulenmodul 0611
Coding: 02042
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 3E74992E3ADFF87621-4B18

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 8E0-920-9xx-8E2.lbl
Part No: 8E0 920 950 J
Component: KOMBI+WEGFAHRS. RB4 D37
Coding: 00400
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 3068B716F08B1E06A3-5178
WAUZZZ8E74A074580 AUZ6Z0C0230244

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 45: Inter. Monitor Labels: 8E0-951-177.lbl
Part No: 8E0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw. 0604
Coding: 00001
Shop #: WSC 00000
VCID: 6BD2607A192DBDDED6-5178

No fault code found.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:. 8E0-959-433-MAX.clb
Part No: 8E0 959 433 BC
Component: Komfortgerát T3B 1311
Coding: 07115
Shop #: WSC 63251
VCID: 73E2781A411D651E1E-4B18

Subsystem 1 - Part No: 8E2959802B
Component: Tõrsteuer.FS BRM 0003

Subsystem 2 - Part No: 8E2959801B
Component: Tõrsteuer.BF BRM 0003

Subsystem 3 - Part No: 8E0959801A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HL BRM 0003

Subsystem 4 - Part No: 8E0959802A
Component: Tõrsteuer.HR BRM 0003

13 Faults Found:
01370 - Alarm triggered by Interior Monitoring
35-00 - -
00962 - Alarm via. Tilt Sensor
35-00 - -
01368 - Alarm triggered by Luggage Compartment Switch
35-00 - -
01369 - Alarm triggered by Hood Switch
35-00 - -
01374 - Alarm triggered by Terminal 15
35-00 - -
01371 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Driver's Side
35-00 - -
01572 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Passenger Side
35-00 - -
01574 - Alarm triggered by Door Contact Switch; Rear Right
35-00 - -
00956 - Key 2
35-10 - - - Intermittent
01034 - Electric Window Thermal Protection Active; Driver
35-10 - - - Intermittent
01705 - Selection Switch for Mirror-Adjust (E48)
27-10 - Implausible Signal - Intermittent
01559 - Drivers Door
59-10 - Can't Unlock - Intermittent
01561 - Rear left door
61-00 - Won't De-Safe

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 8E0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 8E0 035 195 P
Component: symphony II NP2 0152
Coding: 01005
Shop #: WSC 00130
VCID: 3460BB0604932226C7-4ECA

2 Faults Found:
00878 - Connection to Speaker Front Left
36-00 - Open Circuit
00879 - Connection to Speaker Front Right
36-10 - Open Circuit - Intermittent

End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 06:01)--------------------------

Many thanks,
Ian

[ianlovatt]

I'll check the starter motor as soon as I can. I put the battery charger on and it was sitting at around 13.4 across the terminals when that was on and the battery was down to 13.2 after I'd removed the charger


Thanks,
Ian

[MrPresident]

My plenum chamber was a waterpark not to long ago. lliters of water. It flooded my driveway when I unblocked the plug. Not long after my car was going nuts electrically and I was having exactly the same codes as you. I even had stalling issues etc. I removed the front seats. pulled back the carpet and i completely dried everything out with a heater and dehumidifer. I also pulled the ECU to dry indoors incase it had gotten wet but it was fine.

After all dried up and cleared codes with VCDS touch wood nothing came back. But I did get alot of codes relating to ABS etc. I only noticed the water because I changed my battery. It explains though also why my windows were ALWAYS foggy and never demisted properly

[Crasher]

Incontinence system? Don't appear to have one of those!

My name for the inconvenience system on a 3B when it gets flooded by rain water through the heater intake

[ianlovatt]

Cheers for all the replies so far.

Could anyone advise on the part number for the starter please (as per details in this thread it's a 53plate with AVF engine)?

As I haven't got the car up on any ramps it's really tricky to see the starter so I can't tell which of these I need:
https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/bosch-starter-motor-402440360 (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/bosch-starter-motor-402440360)
or this type
Bosch Starter Motor | Euro Car Parts (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/bosch-starter-motor-402440890)
Lucas Starter Motor | Euro Car Parts (https://www.eurocarparts.com/p/lucas-starter-motor-402440891)

I'm assuming going with Bosch or Lucas is the right thing to do as if I get a cheaper one it will just die sooner?



Had an excellent day wrestling with cleaning the plenum chamber and clearing out the leaf mulch and silt from the drain plugs. Took the lid off the ECU enclosure (can't believe you have to remove wipers to do this - what a fight they were) and everything was nice and dry despite the height of the rust on the bolts showing it must have been wet above the seal. Same on the heater intake - despite a terrifying amount of sludge all around it no sign of any water ingress.

Then finally wriggled under to take a look a the starter. The supply was matching the battery terminal voltages and ignition signal came on ok with turning the key so that's dead I thought. I reconnected the ignition signal and gave the starter a tap while it was being activated and it hissed furiously and loads of smoke came out so it's even more dead now.

As the garage I normally use hasn't got any availability for a couple of weeks I thought I'd try to replace it myself. Hopefully not being too ambitious with this...


Thanks,
Ian

[ianlovatt]

Had another garage recommended to me that can look at it tomorrow. Lucas one for £261 inc fitting and VAT so hopefully I'm not getting robbed there.

Ian

[arman123]

bosch part number is 068911024HX

valeo part number is 068911024LX








Vehicles with 1.9 ltr. TDI engine











Removing




–
With ignition switched off, disconnect earth cable at battery → Chapter (https://ctrl:IDREF=idp38736/).




–
On vehicles with auxiliary heater, unscrew bolts -arrows- for exhaust pipe of auxiliary/supplementary heater at noise insulation.




https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_mk2/images/a4-19787.png






–
Unfasten bolts/quick release fasteners -1 ... 3- and detach noise insulation (front and rear).




https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_mk2/images/a4-19788.png






–
Remove wires -1- and -2- at starter and remove insulator from positive connection on starter.




–
Unbolt wiring clamp -3-.




–
Unscrew starter at gearbox and take out to rear.




Installing




Installation is carried out in the reverse order; note the following:




–
Connect the battery. Additional steps required → Anchor (https://ctrl:IDREF=idp46704/).




Tightening torques




https://workshop-manuals.com/audi/a4_mk2/images/a4-19789.png




Component
Nm


Starter
M10
45


to gearbox
M12
65

[Crasher]

it hissed furiously and loads of smoke came out so it's even more dead now

:bigeyes: I have never had that happen, sphincter clenching :scared:

[ianlovatt]

Yes that smoke was quite unnerving at point blank range. Maybe the same reason as in this video
Starter motor smoking??? - YouTube (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x10plD7sFE4)

Thanks arman123 for posting that info on fitting the starter hopefully I won't be needing that if this starter lasts 17 years like the last one but I'm sure someone will find it handy.

So far so good with the new starter but electrical woes after the new coolant head flange in this thread
Question Coolant leak - what is part this called and is it realistic for me to attempt to fix? - Page 2 (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/195535-Coolant-leak-what-is-part-this-called-and-is-it-realistic-for-me-to-attempt-to-fix/page2)
so I'll pick that up there.

Cheers
Ian

[ianlovatt]

Ha it seems in my messing about with the ECU enclosure cover I might not have put it back together as well as I should have.

Just started this thread
18047 - Accelerator Position Sensor 1/2 (G79/G185) and 01314 - Engine Control Module (http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/196816-18047-Accelerator-Position-Sensor-1-2-(G79-G185)-and-01314-Engine-Control-Module)


...



Had an excellent day wrestling with cleaning the plenum chamber and clearing out the leaf mulch and silt from the drain plugs. Took the lid off the ECU enclosure (can't believe you have to remove wipers to do this - what a fight they were) and everything was nice and dry despite the height of the rust on the bolts showing it must have been wet above the seal. Same on the heater intake - despite a terrifying amount of sludge all around it no sign of any water ingress.

Then finally wriggled under to take a look a the starter. The supply was matching the battery terminal voltages and ignition signal came on ok with turning the key so that's dead I thought. I reconnected the ignition signal and gave the starter a tap while it was being activated and it hissed furiously and loads of smoke came out so it's even more dead now.

As the garage I normally use hasn't got any availability for a couple of weeks I thought I'd try to replace it myself. Hopefully not being too ambitious with this...


Thanks,
Ian