Help with Codes 17580/P1172, 17579/P1171

[willdudeuk]

Hi,


Got an issue with my Golf Mk5 1.6 FSI.

FULL AUTO SCAN:


Chassis Type: 1K (1K0)Scan: 01 03 08 09 15 16 17 19 25 42 44 46 52 56


VIN: WVWZZZ1KZ4W096975 Mileage: 316260km-196514miles


00-Steering Angle Sensor -- Status: OK 0000
01-Engine -- Status: Malfunction 0010
03-ABS Brakes -- Status: Malfunction 0010
08-Auto HVAC -- Status: OK 0000
09-Cent. Elect. -- Status: OK 0000
15-Airbags -- Status: OK 0000
16-Steering wheel -- Status: OK 0000
17-Instruments -- Status: OK 0000
19-CAN Gateway -- Status: OK 0000
25-Immobilizer -- Status: OK 0000
42-Door Elect, Driver -- Status: OK 0000
44-Steering Assist -- Status: OK 0000
46-Central Conv. -- Status: OK 0000
52-Door Elect, Pass. -- Status: OK 0000
56-Radio -- Status: OK 0000

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 01: Engine Labels: 03C-906-056-BAG.lbl
Part No SW: 03C 906 056 BA HW: Hardware No
Component: MED9.5.10 G00 5697
Revision: 00000000 Serial number: VWZ7Z0D9331576
Coding: 0000072
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 63C1C201A2D6B057DA-8036


1 Fault Found:
17580 - Angle Sensor 2 for Throttle Actuator (G188) Signal too Low
P1172 - 002 -
Readiness: 0100 0000


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 03: ABS Brakes Labels: 1K0-907-379-MK60-F.lbl
Part No: 1K0 907 379 K
Component: ESP FRONT MK60 0103
Coding: 0019073
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 3A7F5F6575DC919FA9-806E


1 Fault Found:
01314 - Engine Control Module
013 - Check DTC Memory


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 08: Auto HVAC Labels: 1K0-820-047.lbl
Part No: 1K0 820 047 CB
Component: Climatic PQ35 080 0201
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 66C7DB1551E4C57F3D-8032


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 09: Cent. Elect. Labels:. 3C0-937-049-23-M.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 937 049 K HW: 1K0 937 049 K*
Component: Bordnetz-SG 1.0 H30 0701
Revision: 00030000 Serial number: 00000000514812
Coding: E48D0F0600041800001400001400000000
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 3779465146CE8CF756-8062


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K2 955 119 B Labels: 1KX-955-119.CLB
Component: Wischer VW350 012 0401
Coding: 00065493
Shop #: WSC 00000


Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 955 559 K Labels: 1K0-955-559-AF.CLB
Component: RegenLichtSens 002 0505
Coding: 00217125
Shop #: WSC 00000


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 15: Airbags Labels: 1K0-909-605.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 909 605 A HW: 1K0 909 605 A
Component: 0M AIRBAG VW8 022 0500
Revision: 04022000 Serial number: 0033FD08P0VC
Coding: 0012365
Shop #: WSC 01268 785 00200
VCID: 2A5F6F25857C211FD9-807E


Subsystem 1 - Serial number: 6332MSME5D7E1002


Subsystem 2 - Serial number: 6342MSME57340A02


Subsystem 3 - Serial number: 6351HSME43485801


Subsystem 4 - Serial number: 6361HSME5D0F5901


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 16: Steering wheel Labels: 1K0-953-549-MY8.lbl
Part No SW: 1K0 953 549 A HW: 1K0 953 549 A
Component: Lenksäulenmodul 012 0030
Coding: 0000022
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05BCF17-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 17: Instruments Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-17.lbl
Part No: 1K0 920 950 K
Component: KOMBIINSTRUMENT VDD 3554
Coding: 0000401
Shop #: WSC 00218 210 03908
VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05BCF17-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 19: CAN Gateway Labels:. 1K0-907-530-V1.clb
Part No SW: 1K0 907 530 C HW: 1K0 907 951
Component: Gateway H08 0080
Revision: 08 Serial number: 2100104128EF35
Coding: 3D0F0340070003
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 27599611966E1C77C6-8072


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 25: Immobilizer Labels: 1K0-920-xxx-25.clb
Part No: 1K0 920 950 K
Component: IMMO 3554
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05BCF17-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 42: Door Elect, Driver Labels: 1K0-959-701-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 701 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0116
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 306B7D4DA3A05BCF17-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 44: Steering Assist Labels: 1Kx-909-144-G2V1.clb
Part No: 1K2 909 144 E
Component: EPS_ZFLS Kl.1 1202
Shop #: WSC 00000 000 00000
VCID: 2E576335B9944D3F05-807A


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 46: Central Conv. Labels:. 1K0-959-433-MIN.clb
Part No: 1K0 959 433 BL
Component: 01 KSG 0301
Coding: 81E802087F2D8505485BC61000
Shop #: WSC 00218 210 08203
VCID: 7BF19A613A666897F2-802E


Subsystem 1 - Part No: 1K0 951 605 C
Component: LIN BACKUP HORN H05 1501


Subsystem 2 - Part No: 1K0 907 719
Component: Neigungssensor 003 0003


Subsystem 3 - Part No: 1K0 951 177
Component: Innenraumueberw.004 0101


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 52: Door Elect, Pass. Labels: 1K0-959-702-MIN1.lbl
Part No: 1K0 959 702 E
Component: Tuersteuergeraet 09 0116
Coding: 0000052
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 316D7849A8AA52C718-8064


No fault code found.


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Address 56: Radio Labels: 1K0-035-1xx-56.lbl
Part No: 1K0 035 186 J
Component: Radio BNO 0016
Coding: 0040400
Shop #: WSC 01279 785 00200
VCID: 2D556439B49236273C-8078


No fault code found.


End-------------------------(Elapsed Time: 01:35)--------------------------






VCDS is showing fault with throttle body:




17580 / P1172 - Angle sensor 2 for throttle actuator G188 signal too low.


or (on other scans show)


17579 / P1171 - Angle sensor 2 for throttle actuator G188 implausible signal.




also fault showing with ABS brakes:


01314 - Engine Control Module - 013 - check DTC memory






Car will drive for a bit when DTCs are cleared and throttle body adapted but then will go into limp home


mode (can't go above 3000rpm).




Have tried a second hand throttle body but still getting the same issue (but less often / sporadically)


(reading MVB 062 in VCDS shows steady values / signals for G187 and G188).






However the original throttle body I had on there was definitely on the fritz (or could be bad wiring,


connectors or ECU damp?) as when reading measuring block values / MVB 062 you could see sensor


2 G188 fluctuating wildly and not holding a steady value when at idle position




Don't want to fork out for an OEM throttle body at £500!


But also don't want to buy a cheap knock off.




Any advice on this issue would be greatly appreciated.


Thanks

[Crasher]

Did you make sure the used throttle body was the correct part number, perfectly clean inside and then adapt it to the ECU in Basic Settings 060?

[willdudeuk]

Hi Crasher I tried a new throttle body (not an oem part / aftermarket - metzger) and still had the same issues / showing same codes. What would you recommend doing next?

[Crasher]

Can you rind me the part number of the Metzger throttle body? Did you do Basic Settings 060?

[willdudeuk]

Yes I reset the throttle body using basic settings group 060 on vcds..... followed the instructions as per the ross tech video

Part number for Metzger Throttle Body is ARTICLE №: 0892429

[Crasher]

The OE number is 03C 133 062 A and this cross references on Tec Doc as a Metzger 0892429 so that is correct, leaves me a bit stuck...



https://webservice.tecalliance.services/pegasus-3-0/documents/0/282570202806279/0?api_key=2BeBXg69osbuG45Rjtv1wLEnHL3nuT3VTxWVZ2Ck xdgdrHkcus1G

[willdudeuk]

Going to try and take a look at the wiring a connectors between the throttle body and Ecu.

There is a TSB 2018652 which splices in 6 new wires to the throttle body (just the last 12 inches).

Fingers crossed with new connector, new terminal pins and wiring it will resolve the issue.

If if not I’m stumped too or it’s an ECU issue?

[Crasher]

I would be replacing the pins at both ends with Gold plated ones as I stock them and have the crimps but you may have to use VAG repair wires which I don’t like.

[willdudeuk]

Thanks for the advice Crasher.

How would I obtain these pins and crimps from you?

What are the VAG repair wires? Is there a part number?

[Crasher]

I think it is an AMP mini timer without being able to check at work, I get them from Buy Flat plug contact Junior Power Timer (JPT) 2.8 online (https://eshop.wurth.co.uk/Product-categories/Flat-plug-contact-Junior-Power-Timer-JPT-2.8/31086501140913.cyid/3108.cgid/en/GB/GBP/?CatalogCategoryRef=31086501140913%40WuerthGroup-Wuerth-3108&SelectedFilterAttribut=%255B%257B%2522name%2522%25 3A%2522ATWireCrossSectionMinMax%2522%252C%2522valu e%2522%253A%255B%25220%252C5-1%2520mm%25C2%25B2%2522%255D%252C%2522title%2522%2 53A%2522Min.%252Fmax.%2520wire%2520cross%2520secti on%2522%257D%252C%257B%2522name%2522%253A%2522ATMa terialType%2522%252C%2522value%2522%253A%255B%2522 Bronze%2522%255D%252C%2522title%2522%253A%2522Mate rial%2522%257D%252C%257B%2522name%2522%253A%2522AT Surface%2522%252C%2522value%2522%253A%255B%2522Gol d%2520plated%2522%255D%252C%2522title%2522%253A%25 22Surface%2522%257D%255D)

And these to crimp them on

Buy Crimping tool for uninsulated flat connectors (0714104121) online (https://eshop.wurth.co.uk/Crimping-tool-for-uninsulated-flat-connectors-CRMPPLRS-NINSU-CBLCON-01-25SMM-/0714104121.sku/en/GB/GBP/?CampaignName=SR001&SelectedFilterAttribut=%255B%257B%2522name%2522%25 3A%2522ATConnectorType%2522%252C%2522value%2522%25 3A%255B%2522Uninsulated%2520plug%2520connectors%25 22%255D%252C%2522title%2522%253A%2522Connector%252 0type%2522%257D%255D)

The VAG repair wires are available from VW dealers or TPS if you have an account

These aren’t the correct numbers but give you the idea

https://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd20/Crasher1964/Plug%20and%20terminal_zps4yawmzjt.jpg (http://s222.photobucket.com/user/Crasher1964/media/Plug%20and%20terminal_zps4yawmzjt.jpg.html)

[willdudeuk]

Thank you Crasher for the useful information.

I've managed to get hold of the parts and have constructed the repair section as per TSB2018652.

If that doesn't resolve the issue I shall do as you advised and replace the whole lot between the ECU and Throttle body.

To save me some time if I have to depin the ecu connector do you know how I can get hold of the wiring diagram for my variant (BAG Engine Code) of vehicle?

Haynes manual is not that great and the only official workshop manual from VW that I can find is for BHY engine variant which is different to BAG.

If not guess I will going through about 100 connections or whatever it might be but I know its a LOT!

[Crasher]

The BKG isn't on https://erwin.volkswagen.de (https://erwin.volkswagen.de/) and at the moment I am having trouble with my ELSA where VW is concerned as it is all in German which I can just about cope with. If a copy in German will help, PM me your email.

[willdudeuk]

No luck with the repair wire.... looks like i will be depinning at the ecu and replacing the wire from there to the throttle body....

If wiring isn't at fault perhaps it's an ECU issue?

OR

Bad Ground? / Bad Relay?

[Crasher]

ECU failure happens but is very rare

[willdudeuk]

If I was to get the ECU examined / tested / replaced....would you be able to recommend a reputable company?

I did look at how to remove the ECU and have seen a few videos but can't work out how to remove the bulkhead that will give me the access I need to get to the ecu....

[Crasher]

There is a 10mm nut each side and the bulkhead lifts out but you don't need to remove it to get the ECU out. It may have an ECU cage which will really annoy you! I hate ECU testing companies, I don't trust any of them, not even Bosch themselves in Germany who sent me back a TTRS ECU I sent for testing saying there was nothing wrong with it when I knew full well there was as there was not sensor earth, then when I sent it back again a year later they said "ohh, it's faulty and we can't fix it but we can sell you a new one"...... for more than one costs from Audi UK"!!!!!

[willdudeuk]

OH....it might be the end of the road then...shame as the car has served me well....

I will try and get the ecu out tomorrow.....it does like very tight to remove between the scuttle and bulkhead though.

If I can get it out will check connectors and pins in the housings....spray with contact cleaner....

Would you advise opening up the ecu and checking the board?

[Crasher]

The ECU’s are evil to open up and you can damage the tracks getting the case apart, personally I won’t go in there, above my pay grade...

[willdudeuk]

So I went ahead and got to the ECU today to take a look at it.


The area under the scuttle was full of crud and crap....and I could see that the wiring harness to the ecu was sitting in this gunk....under the ecu tray....

Not sure if it has damaged the wiring in any way as I didn't strip the harness (that will be my next move, so I check the integrity of all the wiring).


Checked the ECU connectors and the pins on ECU itself.... there was no signs of water ingress from what I could see, no white powdery deposits or any signs of water (saw a post the other day where

someone had a puddle of water in theirs!)....


Cleaned everything up with a good blast of contact cleaner and let it dry out whilst I tackled cleaning out all the crap.....


A few hours later and I felt I had got it into better condition than it was before but by no means perfect, at least is was dry and most of the mud and crap gone.


Made sure to copper grease up the posts on the wiper mechanism as these were a bugger to get off, broke my cheap tool that I got off amazon in the process of removing these!


Also made sure that I marked up the position of the wiper arms with tape on the windscreen as they are on a tapered splined shaft so just to make life easier.



Just for good measure I held the positive and negative terminals together for a few minutes to completely discharge any remaining current in the circuits to completely reset the ECU as I have read

that this can sometimes cures strange errors (might just be a myth but I thought it wouldn't hurt)....


Obviously before carrying out any work on the car the first thing I did was disconnect battery -VE first then +VE, then opposite way round when reconnecting +VE then -VE).



BUT after all this arduous work.....still no luck....codes still there..... EPC, EML, TRACTION CONTROL LIGHT....


ECU part number is: 03C 906 056 BA, BENZIN MED9.5.10 5697, BOSCH 0 201 S02 070 , 810 BPG MOTRONIC

ECU Wiring Harness: 03C 972 619 M



Not sure where to go next....wiring? ECU?

I have also been reading that damaged wiring around the exhaust manifold can chuck similar codes.....wiring goes brittle due to the heat and creates high resistance (potential for short to ground??)

[Crasher]

I would normally say it would not damage the wiring but I had exactly that on Friday where water had go into the core of the cable and it snapped.

[willdudeuk]

Thanks Crasher, so you would recommend stripping the engine harness back to the wires for inspection, concentrating on the areas of the loom that pass through the bulkhead and where it was sitting in all the crap and mud under the scuttle area.

Fingers crossed this will identify a broken / chaffed / damaged wire and be the root cause of all my throttle body issues.

Shall report back when I get time to strip everything out and inspect the loom thoroughly.

[Crasher]

On the one I have been doing (our loan car A4) I had to gut the interior, unwrap the harness and follow the wire in question pulling at it until it broke, the damage was invisible until I pulled at it.

[willdudeuk]

Ahhh ok so you are suggesting the damage / break may not even by visible.....

Think I will just replace all 6 wires from the ecu to the throttle body as you suggested to avoid any of this "trying to locate the broken wire"!

Just trying to understand what crimps / terminals I need at the ECU end.....

From the wiring diagram you have sent me I have 2 x 1.0mm wires and the rest are 4 x 0.35mm and comparing this to the pin locations on the ECU I can see what male pins go into the ECU connector.

The 2 x 1.0mm have a spade connection (need female equivalent of this) and the 4 x 0.35mm have a pin (need female equivalent of this).

I should of measured these with calipers but didn't.

Can send you a picture if it makes it easier to identify.

[Crasher]

You can buy a new T60 plug which comes with the terminals under part number 5Q0 906 379 and this is about £12 from a VAG dealer so you get the pins that way but they are evil little buggers to do correctly or you can use the VAG repair wires listed for this plug such as 000 979 026 EA for the 0.5mm2 CSA wires with a 2.8mm terminal in Gold plate for about £13 for a double ended wire but these are not long enough for the job. A new engine harness is £300. Watch the video below.

https://live.staticflickr.com/31337/49018077806_096073a89d_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hFysLw)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49018704138_95f705425e_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hFBEXm)

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49019426802_90f223afb3_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hFFnM5)

[willdudeuk]

Thanks yet again for this very useful information Crasher....

Have you got part numbers for the terminals for the 0.35mm² and 1.0mm² CSA wires?.....if not I can just purchase the T60 plug....

When you say they are "evil little buggers" to do correctly, can you elaborate a bit further about what you mean by this?

Can't be any harder than crimping the repair wires I've made already?

[Crasher]

If they are the ones I expect then they are not crimped, you just push the wire into the pin almost Scotch Lock style, the VAG repair wires are crimped.

[willdudeuk]

Well I had a go at depinning the ecu as per the wiring diagram supplied but it’s a nightmare to do. Think I may have damaged a release pin as I can’t remove one of the larger 1.0mm CSA wires. Don’t won’t force it out and wire break with terminal stuck inside. May just have to settle for a complete harness from the dealership. The harness is tightly bunched and I don’t want to further stress it especially in colder weather which could lead to more trouble.

[Crasher]

I spent a stupid amount of time repairing a heavily messed around with R32 turbo conversion harness and it drove me potty, I should have just bitten the bullet and fitted a new engine wiring harness and modified it to suit my new system, I would have saved myself a lot of discomfort and the customer a lot of labour line, mind that would only have dealt with the 40 pin plug, the other harness with the 81 pin plug is obsolete so I ended up doing all 100 or so wires (not all of the 121 pins are used) into new pins and new plugs, no wonder my back hurts...

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/49048663456_c177d6682a_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/2hJgdPj)

[willdudeuk]

OH!! That is certainly a nightmare......

I think I could attempt an overlay harness.....just need to depin the buggers at the ECU....failing depinning at the ECU I shall have to fork out for the new harness.....

On the other hand I would hate to spend £300 on harness and then find out it's the ECU at fault...

Perhaps I should look at getting ECU tested first to safeguard against this? Though I am fully aware of your opinion of these ECU testing companies....it might not be worth it....


IF ECU and wiring are not at fault Crasher....what else would you be looking at next?

[Crasher]

I would have "borrowed" a genuine throttle body from TPS by now, if you spend thousands a month with them they do nice things like that. I would only plug it in through, just to test. If I still had the same fault and the wiring checked out end to end and the trace on the oscilloscope made sense, then I would be on fleaBay looking for an ECU, new ones are daft money.

[willdudeuk]

If I was going to get one off fleabay aren’t I at risk of getting a dud one?

Also it would need reprogramming for the immobiliser, have the odometer / clock set to correct mileage, keys synchronised (im sure there are other things too, please can you confirm what these might be?)

I know of other software that can help me get the PIN code or SKC? But not sure if you need official / licensed to do this? Would hate to brick my ecu using something illegitimate. Is this a possible outcome Crasher?

[Crasher]

It is a risk buying a used one but it has worked for us a number of times, there is even a VAG protocol for doing it. Unless you have it modified to get ride of the old cars VIN and mileage plus have the immobiliser deleted than it will have to be coded in using ODIS so the dealer or a specialist like me who has signed up for ODIS using the GEKO security system. The trouble with a new ECU is the cost, a new one for your car would be part number 03C 997 056 M and costs £1122.80. It is a so called “Vehicle Intelligent Part” and so has to be special ordered from a VW dealer (or TPS if you have an account) and has to come from Germany and is non-returnable. Trying to extract the PIN using CAN Commander is fraught with stolen software, you can't just ring them up for tec help! The SKC is no longer used, it is all done invisible on line to Der Fatherland, the grease monkey doing the job does not see anything useful any more.

[willdudeuk]

Thanks once again for this information....

Still going for the overlay harness at the moment....then will get ECU checked out....

I did try a new (but non-OEM part) throttle body but as explained at the beginning of thread and it made no difference.....chucked the same code....would a NEW OEM / authentic part 03C 133 062 A make any difference even if I have tried a NEW aftermarket part?

Did try a used / second OEM part and still made difference either (but could have the same issue....)


Just trying to track down the correct terminal for the ECU pins.....I've found the correct terminal for the 1.0mm CSA wires.....just can't track down the correct 0.35mm CSA terminal.....looks <1mm in cross section but I haven't measured the ECU pin....just by eye this...

[willdudeuk]

UPDATE....overlay harness between ECU and throttle body installed and NO MORE CODES for throttle body.....17580, 17579 have not returned which hopefully means the issue is resolved.

Just need to carefully route the new wiring to avoid any future issues and shorten its length as I have made it far too long.....

Appreciate your support Crasher on this one.

Will go on a spirited long drive and hopefully no codes will return.

Fingers crossed we can consider this solved.