Golf Mk6 1.6 TDi issues :(

[MrO]

Morning folks,

im new here and been having a scout round the forum and already finding some useful stuff (it’s a lot bigger forum than what I’m used to so still finding my feet)

My Golf has turned into a bit of a nightmare over the last month....details below. Any help / advice going forward would be appreciated.

first a bit of info:
————————-

61 - 2011

59500 miles - I bought it as a one owner car from VW with 27000 miles 2.5 years ago

I stupidly had the emissions update done before I knew better

1/ About 4 weeks ago I had the EGR replaced under warranty - I was 3 weeks away from the 24 month warrant6 running out.

2/ The less than a week after I had an injector clamp bolt snap and two injectors pop out.

3/ Now the engine is running very rough on tick over when cold, the car can be felt physically shaking. Also I’m noticing some ticking noise when the engine is under load from around 1500 - 2000 rpm in 2nd and 3rd gear. I’m not sure if this has always been happening or I’m just hearing it because I’m listenig more....

Q1/ Did the injectors suffer some damage when the clamp bolt snapped?

Q2/ Is 59500 miles a normal mileage to replace injectors?

Q3/ If the injectors do need replacing and I get them changed what issue am I likely to encounter next?

thanks in advance for any advice / help.

MrO

[philipharmes]

It sounds like whoever replaced the injectors didn't do a very good job.

The ticking sound is almost certainly combustion gas escaping past the injector seals, the lost pressure will be causing the missfire.

The escaping gas will be damaging the injector seats so need attention ASAP.

I would take it to a diesel injection specialist who has dealt with this engine before.

[MrO]

I forgot to mention that the misfire / lumpy tick over goes away quite quickly.. but when it is doing it’s misfire thing sometimes I can smell what I thought was diesel / oil coming through the air vents. Will this be the combustion gas escaping?



It sounds like whoever replaced the injectors didn't do a very good job.

The ticking sound is almost certainly combustion gas escaping past the injector seals, the lost pressure will be causing the missfire.

The escaping gas will be damaging the injector seats so need attention ASAP.

I would take it to a diesel injection specialist who has dealt with this engine before.

[Crasher]

I have never known the injector bolt to randomly snap, have they been out?

[MrO]

When it snapped the RAC who towed me said it was a common problem. The bolt when replaced gets over torqued and then fractured, then cracks and finally snaps. The recommendation for the bolt torque is 8nm + 180°

Here is a photo of my snapped bolt (if I can upload it)

[Crasher]

If the injectors have been out (?) I imagine the bolt was re-used as it should be replaced.

[Crasher]

Can’t see why that happened :confused:

[MrO]

Two injectors got replaced by VW before I bought the car, it showed up on their check - which I was surprised about at 27000 miles.. and apparently if the clamp is slightly over torqued it eventually snaps.


i’ve got some more info that might help diagnose my tickover issue:

a friend had a look to see to see what he thought was causing the tickover issue - and he spotted some smoke coming from the area behind the DPF. He said it could have been something not put back together properly after VW replaced the EGR valve. I took it back to VW so they could check but they said they couldn’t see any smoke. Yesterday morning I opened the bonnet before starting the engine and then went to have a look as soon as the engine was running... I seen the smoke. So I’m now wondering if it only appears when the engine is cold and if it gets resolved will it solve the tickover problem?

[philipharmes]

I forgot to mention that the misfire / lumpy tick over goes away quite quickly.. but when it is doing it’s misfire thing sometimes I can smell what I thought was diesel / oil coming through the air vents. Will this be the combustion gas escaping?

On the cylinder/s where gas is escaping, compression is being lost & the cylinder/s won't fire properly.

As the engine runs, heat will be generated & the faulty cylinders will start to fire ok.

But while misfiring, diesel will be escaping with air giving you the diesel smell.

Once running, hot exhaust gas will be escaping & damaging the injector seats.

[Crasher]

We have experienced problems with the thread from the convoluted EGR pipe going up to the manifold, the threads often strip when you take out the bolt and installing two Time Serts in situ is awkawrd, so it is possible the flange is leaking. Smoke would come on on the carsright in left left rear corner of the engine bay as you look at it from the front.

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4700/39639127895_f53400084d_o.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4602/40491410422_ebf852cbaa_o.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/24G64BU)

[MrO]

Thanks for the replies..

So these threads could have been stripped when they carried out the EGR replacement.. Is there a reason why the smoke would disappear when the engine has run for a few minutes as this seems to be the case?

Im going out to the car now to see if I can get a video of the smoke.

I will talk to vw again tomorrow and tell them I have seen the smoke again that they couldn’t see and see what they say..

[MrO]

I’ve made a video of the car being started from cold... the smoke is easily visible and the engine physically shaking but I don’t know how to upload it on here.

[Keithuk]

but I don’t know how to upload it on here.

It depends where this video is located, if its YouTube just copy and paste the link and it will show. If it your own video upload site you can try the same just post the link.

[MrO]

I thought there might be an easier way than YouTube that I didn’t know about..

Here we go, but as said before it doesn’t seem to do after it’s been running for a few minutes

VW Golf 1.6 TDi - YouTube (https://youtu.be/qJhnUjPKHmg)

[Crasher]

Is there a reason why the smoke would disappear when the engine has run for a few minutes as this seems to be the case.

Heat expansion closing a tiny leak but that is the V band clamp leaking, it looks like they have re-used a strained clamp and possibly the gasket shim, they don’t like being reused.

[MrO]

Is this from the EGR replacement?

[Crasher]

Yes, the VW instructions say to remove the DPF but in practice we all know that you just disconnect it from the turbo and move it over but we always fit a new clamp and seal as we have experienced the same problem. However, I can’t see it being the reason for the bad running, the leak is just making the smoke visible before the DPF, with it running like that the DPF will very quickly soot up and block, if it isn’t already......

[MrO]

Thanks, really appreciate your help on this.

What could be the cause of the bad running, what should I get checked first?

...and if the dpf is blocked / clogged what do I need to do, get it replaced?


Until I posted on the forum a day or two ago I didn’t realise I had an account since 2007. But that shows how good my 52 ref Audi A3 tdi sport was. I had it 10 years without an mot fail or any issue. This golf is proving to be a bit different.

[Crasher]

The bad running is likely to be another injector/ two and/or damage to the two that blew out so studying the measuring blocks for annomanlies would be the techs second step after the obvious code read. The DPF levels needed to be checked again in measuring blocks and if high, taken off and sent to someone like DPF clean team in Hinckley. Genuine exchange injectors are £476.26.... each, and that is an exchange recon unit and slightly less at typical £445 for aftermarket VDO units so with the two year genuine warranty it’s better to go genuine. Incidentally, a set of 10 injectors for an Audi S8 V10 (Lamborghini engine) cost half that, fitted.....

[MrO]

Pffff, this is going from bad to worse.

Looks like it might be time to move it on.. £476.26 x 2 injectors and then the DPF removal and cleaning re fitting ££££ typical that I’ve recently had the belt and water pump done and two new tyres...

[MrO]

I’m going to VW later today to get the leaky clamp looked at..


What would you advise I do next ? Injector testing?

[Crasher]

It seems impossible for anyone, even the most season diesel specialists, to be able to conclusively test them, the settings are so fine. They may be OK if you knew a suitable IMA number to dial them in but that is an unkown, they are the diesel gone too far and they are two steps back from where we are now, I dread what is coming!

[MrO]

So two steps further on doesn’t mean they have improved anything..

It’s very worrying what the future holds.


It seems impossible for anyone, even the most season diesel specialists, to be able to conclusively test them, the settings are so fine. They may be OK if you knew a suitable IMA number to dial them in but that is an unkown, they are the diesel gone too far and they are two steps back from where we are now, I dread what is coming!

[Crasher]

Ohh no, it is worse, far worse, the compression ignition Frankenstein Es kommt in both Gasoline and fuel oil forms and is designed to destroy the infernal combustion engine and have us all driving the automotive EUtopia [sic] of the electric car, that is until in around 30 years time someone goes “merde, dis ist shyt” and then we will go back to the infernal combustion engine but by then, God willing, I will have gone “upt chimney” as one of my D Day vets Mr Frost :notworthy used to say when his Polo broke.

[MrO]

Ohh no, it is worse, far worse, the compression ignition Frankenstein Es kommt in both Gasoline and fuel oil forms and is designed to destroy the infernal combustion engine and have us all driving the automotive EUtopia [sic] of the electric car, that is until in around 30 years time someone goes “merde, dis ist shyt” and then we will go back to the infernal combustion engine but by then, God willing, I will have gone “upt chimney” as one of my D Day vets Mr Frost :notworthy used to say when his Polo broke.

I would not be surprised one bit with any of the above..

I have been to VW, they have seen my video and agree that the v band is leaking and are going to replace on monday. They are keeping my car so that they can check the awful tick over problem from cold on Tuesday morning. When I drop my car off I’m going to mention the noise that I have been thinking is injector related although I’m not sure it is anymore. The noise has got worse and only does it under load and seems worse when the engine is warmer (oil thinner maybe?) But still accelerates very well for the car / engine combo. When parked I can rev the engine to its limited 2750rpm (I think) and it sounds perfect.

Any ideas?

[MrO]

I think it’s worse now :1zhelp:

[Crasher]

In respect of noise, vibration, poor running of smoke under the bonnet? I can't remember if you were able to find out if it has had the recall carried out but if it hadn't a few days ago, I bet it has now it has been to the dealer.

[MrO]

Yes the emissions software update was done in Feb 2017, just under two years later I had the EGR replaced under warranty. The car is back in at Vw to have a new v band fitted which should stop the smoke. They are going to look at the terribke running when cold and still suspect when warm plus the noise (injectors ?) I’m expecting a big bill from them...


In respect of noise, vibration, poor running of smoke under the bonnet? I can't remember if you were able to find out if it has had the recall carried out but if it hadn't a few days ago, I bet it has now it has been to the dealer.

[Crasher]

I had one with a CAYC engine that even after a couple of new injectors was still all over the place, on the VAG diagnostic system ODIS, I found an online to Der Fatherland smooth running function and left it to it, when I came back about 20 minutes later, the change was remarkable.

[MrO]

Now things get even stranger... !?!

I just drove 20 miles home from work and I was talking to my mum on the phone from the start of the journey.. as I got close we hung up and at that point I realised that there was no (injector, or whatever it was) noise at all.. everything was as I remember it always.

Also the MPG that had been suffering was back up where it always was... when the noise was going on the MpG had dropped to 50.. today when the noise had gone it was up at 62




I had one with a CAYC engine that even after a couple of new injectors was still all over the place, on the VAG diagnostic system ODIS, I found an online to Der Fatherland smooth running function and left it to it, when I came back about 20 minutes later, the change was remarkable.

[Crasher]

It sounds like it has re-adapted itself to the fault or dialed out a faulty sensor so I imagine the MIL will come on soon. If you did a code read it may already show a fault, if you clear that code it will revert to running like a dog.

[MrO]

Whoa, that’s a strange one



It sounds like it has re-adapted itself to the fault or dialed out a faulty sensor so I imagine the MIL will come on soon. If you did a code read it may already show a fault, if you clear that code it will revert to running like a dog.

[MrO]

The noise that went away on Friday was back by Sunday. Today the car went into vw to have the dpf clamp / smoke problem sorted. Also for the noise / tickover investigation.. I missed 2 calls and need to talk to them in the morning but they are saying it is an injector issue

:(

££££££££

[MrO]

Injector 2 is the problem. They have advised trying some injector cleaner and hopefully avoid the cost of a new injector... I get the car back tomorrow but don’t have much confidence...

[Crasher]

Injector cleaner advised by the VW dealer! Cloud cuckoo land....

[MrO]

Injector cleaner advised by the VW dealer! Cloud cuckoo land....

Got the car back still running like a dog., who would you recommend for injector check / testing? I’m in Hinckley near Leicester

[MrO]

..... still this problem goes on :(

Ive gave up on VW and the advice of injector cleaner.

I have now had the injectors taken out and tested. They are all tested pretty much ok but the car still runs on two when it’s cold...

pfff, im ready to scrap it!

[Crasher]

It is not possible to accurately test them as the amount of flow error that will cause a problem is tiny, the only solution is to fit new ones.

[MrO]

Is that just relavent to these injectors / this engine?



It is not possible to accurately test them as the amount of flow error that will cause a problem is tiny, the only solution is to fit new ones.

[Crasher]

I am no expert on testing injectors so I have mine tested by Daryl at Gee Diesel in Hucknall and he is always very straight with me and can tell if one is badly out like the CT TDI V6 types but with subtle faults that can cause discrete running and idle issues it is almost impossible to check, the only people who have that level of equipment are the manufactures who then print on each injector the algorithm they calculate for each individual injector, what is known as the IMA value, which I think stands for Injector Mass Adjustment. If someone could crack that code in theory you should be able to tweak the fueling of an injector to compensate but I don't know anyone who has done this and I am not fussed as I think all diesels should be banned for anything less than 40 Tonnes....:outtahere

[MrO]

Oe injector is being replaced that is apparently causing all my troubles..

and as as soon as the car is in a sellable state it’s going and I’m getting a petrol engined car...

im thinking of getting a new Seat Leon 1.5 tsi Evo Fr Sport (130ps or 150ps I’m not sure which yet)