Cam belt change interval

[Tripletrouble]

Hi
My car is in for a 75k service (2.0Tdi, 2013 manual).
Can someone clarify 100% with proof if possible what the recommended interval is to change the cam belt?
The garage is saying now, I am positive I read in the handbook it was 120k?

[JamesMo]

From memory, in my pre FL the manual said something like 120k miles but with no time limit, Audi will tell you it is 4 years no matter the mileage. Just checked my FL manual and this says '210k KM/133k miles' again with no time given. Belts do degrade with time so it is up to you if you want to take the risk.

[Gmonster]

Good question TT... and one I'm also interested in the answer too. I remember seeing (in manual?) 75,000 miles or 4 years; whichever comes first. Then you add/include tensioner and water pump... for a gold plated job. Think I will go for 4 year replacement, once confirmed.


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[Tripletrouble]

I have searched everywhere on the internet and cannot find a definitive answer, it's really annoying me!

[Rob69]

If in doubt and you intend keeping the car get it and the pump etc done. 120k is a long way to go and you might find the water pump or tensioner gives up the ghost before then. Sorry - that's not 100% proof!

[dtwort]

If in doubt and you intend keeping the car get it and the pump etc done. 120k is a long way to go and you might find the water pump or tensioner gives up the ghost before then. Sorry - that's not 100% proof!

I second this. If it were me I'd have both the cambelt and the water pump replaced now. It's just not worth the risk of leaving it to 120k.

I also have a feeling that from memory the manuals said 120K but the engines were snapping belts early so VAG lowered the milage / time. Before I had my A6 I had a VW Passat with the same 2.0 TDI Engine and the milage was lowered for cambelt replacements because belts were snapping early.

Hope that helps.


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[zollaf]

120k timing belt interval and an oil change every 20k makes for very good reading if you are buying 100 of them as company cars for your staff. that means in the 3 years you will keep them they wont need a timing belt and only maybe 5 services, very cheap to run, especially when that other brand will need a 600 quid timing belt. thats 60 grand you have just saved yourself.. bring on a big bonus.. stuff any subsequent owners..

[Tripletrouble]

Interesting that there's lot's of speculation but no-one seems to be able to provide absolutely 100% certain when it needs to be done!

[zollaf]

it 100% certainly needs to be done before it snaps. after that it gets expensive. very expensive.
stick to 75 k or 4 years and you cant go wrong. problem is, as i said, they like to stretch the limits these days in order to sell more new cars to fleet buyers, which is where its at. different sources say different things, so maybe you wont get a definitive answer other than the one i have just given. maybe its just best to listen to the collective and take their advice , and if you do this you will never have to suffer a snapped belt.. or, leave it until it goes and add your info to the statistics .. will it last 100k, maybe 200, who knows unless you try it. are you a gambling man ??

[dtwort]

Interesting that there's lot's of speculation but no-one seems to be able to provide absolutely 100% certain when it needs to be done!

Hi Trippletrouble,

The info I provided about the manual saying something like 120k but the belts were snapping early so VAG lowered the milage came from my local VW dealer.

I don't have a document on it though. Maybe ask your local main dealer to answer the discrepancy between the two?


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[Gmonster]

Need to ask the dealer .... and then de-cypher there statement into what's best for your particular situation... e.g; get it done early to minimise any risk... plus do a belts and braces approach (belt, tensioner, pump) ... or... live with risk if you are going to move Car on in the short/medium term...

For me it all hinges on whether your are keeping the car long term...


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[Rob69]

Zollaf's bang on ! it needs changing before it or some other vital related component fails .
Everyone focuses on the belt and see's it as the failure point but there is a lot of other component failures such as seized water pump, worn tensioner, idlers, etc that can lead to the belt stripping or snapping. When and if one of these components fails depends on many variables, quality and tolerance of components at manufacture ( hopefully good, as it is still OEM in your case) installation, duty cycle of the engine ( multiple short journeys or fewer longer motorway journeys) environment, hot dusty or cold wet etc etc.
I'm sure the engine designer specifies a conservative distance and time, then the marketing and sales folks step in, stretch it as far as they can, watch fleet sales etc. then monitor the failure rates to see what is acceptable, this will be a movable feast depending on who's calling the shots, hence all the confusion, changes in recommendations from model and years and discussion around this subject.
On my old PD engine the interval is 40k or 4 years, That's a big chunky belt that has a hard life driving the injectors. The car I've currently got had done 70 k on its last belt and the belt looked ok, although water pump bearings had a bit much play, so would it have lasted another 10k ? maybe, but i didn't gamble at taking it twice past the recommended distance
Since this is on your mind, you won't sleep sound until it's been changed so just get it done!!!!
http://www.weibull.com/hotwire/issue21/ht21_1.gif
[ QUOTE=Tripletrouble;1058006]Interesting that there's lot's of speculation but no-one seems to be able to provide absolutely 100% certain when it needs to be done![/QUOTE]

[Tripletrouble]

So, in light of no one knowing LOL I've decided that I'm going to change the belt and pump and whilst it at it new front pads, rear discs and pads and front suspension bushes and keep the car another year.
I'm quite surprised about the pads and discs as in just over 100k with my last car (Mondeo 2.2Tdi Titanium X Sport) I never changed pads or discs nor did I have suspension bushes wearing either. Ah well, off to E-Bay I go....

[Rob69]

Exactly!! 100k on one set of pads pretty good going, careful what you buy on fleabay though, lots of rubbish and fakes out there.

[zollaf]

nah mate, everything brakes on ebay is legit... you have the choice of fibi, fredo, muntex, bisch, or vagid. if on a budget you could think about apac or truu.

[B5NUT]

Unless it was a know seller ECP, GSF etc I would never get braking parts on ebay. What you need to know about counterfeit Brembo brakes (http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/news/a8532/what-you-need-to-know-about-counterfeit-brembo-brakes/)

[robes401]

I have just checked online at myAudi (http://www.audi.com/en/myaudi.html) and for my car (2014 2.0 Ultra Avant) under Service/Maintenance/Additional Work the cam belt is listed as requiring renewing at 140,000 miles.

33043

[zollaf]

good luck with that one then ..

[B5NUT]

I'm not leaving my belt till 140K miles, I took a 5 year warranty on my car I will get it done before the warranty expires (so 4.8 years @ around 50K miles), that way I get another 2 years on the engine side if the belt fails.

[Watsonone]

Hello B5NUT,

I'm in a similar position re age and warranty but I don't understand your reference to "... another 2 years ...".

How would you get this benefit?

My nearly 5 year old car has 37k on the clock and my dealer says that the cambelt change interval recommended by Audi is 70k or 5 years despite what the service manual says (130k no time limit).


The price quoted for the work is £599 so this inconsistency would in theory, in my case, add up to an additional £1797 of cost before the manual's recommended change date.


Taking into consideration earlier comments, one does wonder whether the dealers have introduced their own individual recommendations that play on their customers natural fear of a catastrophe.


I shall no doubt bite the bullet and play safe despite a feeling that I'm being "played" - but this does introduce a negativity that Audi should resolve one way or another.

[A6S]

Hello B5NUT,

I'm in a similar position re age and warranty but I don't understand your reference to "... another 2 years ...".

How would you get this benefit?

My nearly 5 year old car has 37k on the clock and my dealer says that the cambelt change interval recommended by Audi is 70k or 5 years despite what the service manual says (130k no time limit).


The price quoted for the work is £599 so this inconsistency would in theory, in my case, add up to an additional £1797 of cost before the manual's recommended change date.


Taking into consideration earlier comments, one does wonder whether the dealers have introduced their own individual recommendations that play on their customers natural fear of a catastrophe.


I shall no doubt bite the bullet and play safe despite a feeling that I'm being "played" - but this does introduce a negativity that Audi should resolve one way or another.

Is £599 include all the pulleys, tensioners and water pump?
if it does it's not too bad for a dealer job.

[Watsonone]

Includes water pump but I did not ask about pulleys and tensioner- didn't know that these items were usually changed as well.

[B5NUT]

Hello B5NUT,

I'm in a similar position re age and warranty but I don't understand your reference to "... another 2 years ...".

How would you get this benefit?



If the work is done by an Audi dealer then all the parts have a 2 year warranty on them, so if a belt related fault happened then the engine would be covered. I would also have them change the tensioner & water pump & thermostat at the same time.

[grisslehomer]

Hi,

I had my done on 70000 miles and five years for £599. Don't forget if Audi do it you also get free MOT's for the car, keep it 12 years and it's paid for itself!!!!

[Watsonone]

I have now found in Audi.co.uk/owners-area a reference to the 5 year limit and confirmation of the £599 cost (inc water pump).


There is also reference to free MOT's for life but none to a 2 year cambelt "warranty".

Maybe one incentive has replaced another or maybe both apply.

I'd certainly prefer the 2 year warranty given the choice.

I'll ring the local dealer tomorrow for clarification.

[Watsonone]

Hello grisslehomer,

I was composing my posting when your posting arrived so missed your comment re free MOT's.

Were you told also of the 2 year cambelt/engine damage warranty when you had the works done?

[B5NUT]

All Audi parts have a 2 year warranty. Look at Audi warranty terms and conditions - Audi UK (https://www.audi.co.uk/owners-area/audi-insurance-warranties-and-service-plans/audi-warranties/audi-warranty-terms-and-conditions.html) under "Replacement parts warranty"

[robes401]

I've just received the following response from Audi UK:

"Thank you for contacting Audi UK regarding your vehicle and when the cambelt change is due.

The cambelt change is due at the mileage of 140,000 miles or five years whichever comes first.

The five years is based on a UK recommendation."

[Watsonone]

Hello B5NUT,

Sorry if I seem to be relying on others to do my research but this is not intentional.

Am I correct in interpreting your posts on the subject of replacement parts warranties that in the event of failure not only the part but also collateral damage is covered?


I have read the link you provided and believe the terms to be silent on this point.


If they are, then the value of a warranty on any replacement part that has the potential to wreck an engine on failure becomes a moot point.

[Tripletrouble]

I've just received the following response from Audi UK:

"Thank you for contacting Audi UK regarding your vehicle and when the cambelt change is due.

The cambelt change is due at the mileage of 140,000 miles or five years whichever comes first.

The five years is based on a UK recommendation."
Thanks.
Your car is a 2.0Tdi 177 BHP C7 model?

[robes401]

Thanks.
Your car is a 2.0Tdi 177 BHP C7 model?

Afraid mine is 2.0 Tdi 190 Ultra C7, so not sure if the schedule would be identical to yours.

[Tripletrouble]

It should be, they are the same engines.

[Sheroo]

Apologies for the 'silly' question, are the cambelt and poly v belt one and the same? I've had the damper (lower pulley) and poly v belt replaced and the car is coming onto 5 years old.

[johnsimcox]

Apologies for the 'silly' question, are the cambelt and poly v belt one and the same? I've had the damper (lower pulley) and poly v belt replaced and the car is coming onto 5 years old.
Expect to be corrected (;)) but I think the Poly v belt is external to the engine and drives things like the alternator, air compressor etc while the cambelt is internal to the engine and drives the water pump, oil pump as well as the camshaft

[Sheroo]

Thanks. :D

[Sheroo]

Apparently the 3.0 TDI's do not need a timing belt change as they come with a timing chain? Can anyone confirm this please?

[rAy6]

I spoke with Audi Service just now and they confirmed 140,000 or 5 years, whichever is first (2.0tdi 2013 177PS).
As mentioned, 140k is appealing to fleet buyers.
Another thing to think about is fleet use generally will be higher i.e. previous owner to me averaged 20k per year due to motorway use which puts minimal wear and stress on the engine (engines like to run continuously and don't require much force from the engine to chug along on the motorway). A person using the car for many short trips i.e. stop and starting the car many times during a day, going through several heat cycles will put more strain on components, i.e. starting a car from standstill offers a nice jolt through the system that puts increased tension on the parts.
From that, it makes sense that high mileage motorway use can put more miles onto the belt without proportionally decreasing it's lifespan which is why the mileage can go higher.
I've got exactly 70k on mine and have decided to go for it (at 4.5 years) with water pump too. The free MOT for life is nice too - saves £50 and if keeping the car for another 3 years say (which I plan to) then in a way that's £150 discount on the cost, which makes it almost the same price as going to an independent. Hope that helps.

[johnro79]

Hi guys
Just bringing my case into this discussion as well.
My 2014 Audi a6 2.0 tdi 177 has about 150k miles. I am doing about 60k miles a year.
I replaced the cambelt and water pump last year when it had about 80k. Now the Audi is saying I need/have to replace it every 65k miles.

It's quite expensive and I was seeing all these replies saying number over 100k and i dont know if you're talking about miles or km.

Also, my driving is mostly on motorway and let's say 20% is in the city. My style is not aggressive at all.

Should I stay with one a year cam belt replacement or could I stretch it for 2 years? Is the degradation process that severe in a year time?

I do understand peace of mind and costs if anytbing bad will happen. I just don't want to replace it when it could run for another year or two (if any)

Also, I'm getting it serviced every 10k miles. Any harm in going for the long term service interval instead? I'm just thinking about the maintenance costs in a year. To me it goes about 6-8 services a year + cambelt/water pump combo which takes me close to 2000 pounds (so far)

Thanks a lot for your thoughts

[Gmonster]

Audi spec is 140k miles... or 5 years. Why are they telling you replace after 65k miles?

Are they ‘at it’ as they would appear to be be going against there own spec etc.

Sounds like your style of driving would easily warrant a c2year/130k miles change interval.

Sounds like you could also stretch to the 20k miles service intervals... if... you don’t mind your oil not getting changed for that length period; not for everyone that setup etc etc


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[johnro79]

Audi spec is 140k miles... or 5 years. Why are they telling you replace after 65k miles?

Are they ‘at it’ as they would appear to be be going against there own spec etc.

Sounds like your style of driving would easily warrant a c2year/130k miles change interval.

Sounds like you could also stretch to the 20k miles service intervals... if... you don’t mind your oil not getting changed for that length period; not for everyone that setup etc etc


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i just asked another person to check to see what;s the interval for changing cambelts. he confirmed 140k miles
so the last time i've done it, at about 93k miles, i was "forced sold" that.

also, i was doing my service interval every 10k. i just checked and MMI is displaying Inspection 8800 and next oil change 19000.
when i bought the car, it came without manuals so i don't know what the INSPECTION means.
could you help me out pls?

thanks again for your help

[Gmonster]

Inspection service is usually a major service that includes fuel and air filter replacements , in addition to the fluids check / oil and filter change carried out at the interim service ... Cheers...


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[rAy6]

65k is too often... especially if you're doing 60k per year mostly on the motorway. There are 2 cambelt intervals listed - 70k and 130k (either case, every 5 years, whichever comes soonest).
For someone like me, doing shorter journeys frequently, it's 70k. This is because the car heat cycles more plus the biggest damage is done by starting the car (sudden torque going through the belt from stand still).
This is where the fleet interval comes in... a belt that has done 200 miles in a day (continuos cruising use) has seen far less stress than a car that has done 30 miles in a week, accumulated after 5 days of stop and starting and speeding up and down through traffic.
You can definitely go for the 130k belt on yours and do the pump every 2nd interval.
For what it's worth, Audi were surprised to see mine at 70k saying people left it a bit longer, so 65k @ motorway mileage is definitley too soon.
On the other service parts, you can definitely do the extended service. Same as mentioned above, continuous cruising use hardly puts any stress on a car, its the stop start, not using for a few days, using again for short frequent drives is where the stress is caused. Definitely don't need an oil change at 10k. 2 year service, 130k belt but yearly oil changes will be all that's needed.