Audi A6 C6 Automatic Tiptronic Gearbox Oil Change Question

[yysnet]

Hi All, yesterday have just had my gearbox oil changed, It's a 07 reg A6 2.7 TDI with 6 speed tiptronic gearbox, gearbox code JMK, done 85k miles. I did dropped/clean the oil pan and change the filter, however after the filling procedure i have found that only 4.9L ATF have been filled in (including spillage), compared to the drained dirty oil at about 4.4L, that make sense.

However a bit search all said that it requires 6-8L to complete the change. Did i missed something? The car drives smoother after the change.

Just a bit more, the ATF is the yellow-ish color type and oil pan have 13 bolts not 23 bolts.

Many thanks

[rowdy-999]

Hi, without specialist equipment you'll never fully remove all the fluid. The capacity is around 9lts iirc.
Dropping the pan generally removes about 4.5lts. If you topped up using the correct procedure, then the amount you put in should be fine.
Just out of curiosity what fluid did you use? These transmissions are very susceptible to damage if the wrong fluid is used.

[Crasher]

ELSA says removing the pan means 8 litres comes out :confused:

[rowdy-999]

I assume this is the 6hp19a box?
I dropped my pan last year and accurately measured 4.5lts. All that Ive read points to similar quantities.

[Crasher]

Yes, 6HP-19

[yysnet]

Forgotten to note down the gearbox number. But that make sense if rowdy-999 also have nearly the same amount. I used febi nr 29738 ATF and the seller supplied 8 liters with filter and gasket. The parts are correct apart from having 3L left for next change. :)

I also replace the normal magnetic to strong neodymium iron boron ones, hopefully it's better in holding the metals in the pan.

[poosnip]

I am told by ZF that you get a lot more out when you also drop mechatronics unit, is this correct ?

I have the same car in a bpp engine code. Avant 2.7 tdi quattro so I also have 6HP19A.

Can anyone check if I have a metal pan with 23 bolts?


Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDi Quattro Le Mans..... xenon, 19" alloys, bluetooth phone, satnav, mmi 2g high,

[poosnip]

I too would like to know which gearbox fluid the car left the factory with. I think lifeguard 6, but ZF actually say it would have to be replaced with lifeguard 8. I simply want to swap with the same as it came. I know that the box has never been serviced so I ain't changing that oil with anything fancy


Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDi Quattro Le Mans..... xenon, 19" alloys, bluetooth phone, satnav, mmi 2g high,

[rowdy-999]

I am told by ZF that you get a lot more out when you also drop mechatronics unit, is this correct ?

,

I would assume so.


I too would like to know which gearbox fluid the car left the factory with. I think lifeguard 6, but ZF actually say it would have to be replaced with lifeguard 8. I simply want to swap with the same as it came.

Stick with LG6, I doubt LG8 was even around when the gearbox was built.

[yysnet]

Can anyone check if I have a metal pan with 23 bolts?


Get down and take a look, 23bolt and 13 bolts have quite a differences, you may also see the bolts position designed in the gearbox does not appear in the sump pan. 23 bolts version in between bolts thats about 5cm, 13 version circia 10cm

[poosnip]

Get down and take a look, 23bolt and 13 bolts have quite a differences, you may also see the bolts position designed in the gearbox does not appear in the sump pan. 23 bolts version in between bolts thats about 5cm, 13 version circia 10cm

Will do


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crasher]

Starting the engine for a second or so also purges the box and you can purge the cooler lines with air.

[lynalldiscovery]

My simple view is anything you do is better than nothing, Ive changed the sump and filters on a few autos now and tbh the filter is more of a gauze as opposed to a proper filter so only really removes large debris.
I did wifes last 3.0tdi with new sump/filter and oil and the A6 is getting new oil only and the same next year etc etc
My disco is the same had new sump/filters and I reckon if you have no current issues all you need is fresh oil for a long happy life.
Ive done exactly the same on many previous mercs and land rovers and all ran well with no issues.

I genuinely think people over think auto boxes, give it some fresh oil and dont worry.

From memory the ZF in the A4 and the D3 took 5 to 6 litres with sump removed and 3 to 4 litres with just oil drained.

[lynalldiscovery]

A couple of people have checked out the specs and say this oil meets all the criteria for the 6 speed and its whats going into my disco and wifes a6.
Im sure theres cheaper but if I recall correctly this is also backwards compatible.

RANGE ROVER SPORT 8 SPEED ZF GEARBOX TRANSMISSION OIL 8 LITERS LR023288 AG60 X8 | eBay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/RANGE-ROVER-SPORT-8-SPEED-ZF-GEARBOX-TRANSMISSION-OIL-8-LITERS-LR023288-AG60-X8-/201657728666?hash=item2ef3bcbe9a:g:NugAAOSw-kdXxwjk)

[Quattro-Charlie]

Regarding changing the tranny oil in a 3.0 tdi tiptronic box, the process doesn't sound too intimidating but I'm left wondering how does the driveway mechanic get around running the engine, changing between the different gears and topping up the level without having a hydraulic car lift??
Are there madmen out there that do this on axle stands!!? Hell no hahaha.. I've got my 1st baby on the way so don't think the Mrs would like the idea of me doing that!!
Of course please correct me if I've missed something out.
My c6 is a 2008 is on 168k. There's no problems with the box, it's running smoothly so I reckon just an oil & filter change. As far as the service history shows it has never had the transmission oil changed.

[Crasher]

The car MUST be dead level to start with so axle stands won't work.

[Quattro-Charlie]

Haha easier said than done in my car park that's on an incline :confused:... I can muddle my way around that problem though I think.
What would be the simplest way to measure the oil temperature prior to topping up the oil level, without some pricey bit of mechanics kit? Or do you just run the engine for 20 odd minutes for a rough estimate perhaps..
I know you need to switch between N, D, R and back to neutral, how long would be a good time to run it in D & R? Obviously I'll be there holding the brake pedal down so never feel good leaving it too long in gear with foot on the brake (I'm new to autos...occasionally I still stamp in the brake thinking it's a clutch!!!)
Even sitting at traffic lights I put it in neutral for fear that I'm damaging it somehow...yes pls correct me on that too if I'm unecessarily worrying.

was considering footing the 300 odd pound bill and getting it done professionally but babies on the way so gotta cut corners! Help appreciated as usual :1zhelp:...
oh yeah....would something need to be done via vcds after a tranny oil change?...could ask my neighbour as him and his alter ego love a bit of dressing up
:scared:...

[Crasher]

The only way to accurately know the temperature of the oil is by reading the measured value block in the diagnostics output, the spec for setting the level is between 30 and 40 degrees and it can warm up so fast that we pull the level set plug at 30 and hope it has settled by 35ish as a few minutes longer and it will be over 40.

[lynalldiscovery]

Cheap laser thermometer aimed at the sump will do the trick, tenner ish on ebay.

In the old days putting autos into N and leaving the engine idling caused issues, but I would say 99 percent of people just leave them in D until they park up at the end of their journey.

[Crasher]

I tried that with my Snap Off laser gauge, it was all over the place with a 20 degree variation from one spot to the other, hopeless. We've got a Q7 in next week for an ATF change but I am off next week.

[lynalldiscovery]

I tried that with my Snap Off laser gauge, it was all over the place with a 20 degree variation from one spot to the other, hopeless. We've got a Q7 in next week for an ATF change but I am off next week.


Ive got lots of snap on kit and have to say its not all the mutts nuts and going by my workmates snap on multi meter last night they arent no good either!
Any laser temp tool will not work on anything shiny for example brake discs you have to take readings off of the rusty bits on the edges.
Mines some old thing I bought years ago I always check my hand temp and then the floor temp as a datum and away we go.

The same laser temp gauge worked just fine when I did the oils on my discovery ZF gearbox, it hasnt blown up yet two years later:approve:

[Quattro-Charlie]

Ok thanks for the replies guys..... sadly I don't have vcds so will opt for the laser thermometer option but am also considering getting a digital thermometer with probe that I can just put into the fill hole of the tranny box, I assume that this may be better than the laser option?

Crasher......"level set hole" :confused:...pls enlighten me...haha yes I'm sure you don't wanna be writing all evening!!

Regarding which oil, I've read that if the gearbox hasn't been updated then it's best to just stick with the lifeguard 6 oil so there's no need to update, also if the box doesn't have any current issues then an update wouldn't be necessary....sound about right? If I can't see a gearbox update on the service history how would I go about finding with certainty if my gearbox has not been updated etc....yes without the use of a VCDS?

She's upto 168k miles and still purring like a kitten, smooth with no issues whatsoever......is it still worth changing the ATF??? Honestly I'm with you guys and don't play into this lifetime gearbox oil codswallop.... though a few folk argued on another site that the oil absorbs the shavings of the worn clutch leading to it actually working more efficiently...and with fresh oil this would be removed thus making the clutch not work so well......ideas pls...yes apart from just laughing!!

When switching between the gears during the ATF change, would it just be a quick flip 20 seconds in each gear (P, D, R, S, N) and then back to P? And how long running the car in total? I've seen a few vids that run it for half an hour!!!

Lastly....sitting at lights etc with it in D....wouldn't that partially wear down the clutch??

Im gonna have a go at changing the oil in the diffs next, though I've read that it's not so necessary in comparison to the transmission...then it's aux belt/water pump/thermostat etc as per gupsterg & b5nuts detailed explanations...oh yeah and the dreaded oily manifolds!!! Roll on the summer!!!

Thanks for the advice guys I appreciate you've all got busy lives...this info helps me and many others after me for years to come so give yourselves a pat on the back :biglaugh:....

[Crasher]

The level set hole is just that, the fluid drains until it reaches the level of the setting tube which is up inside the drain hole

[Quattro-Charlie]

A man of few words Crash, could you not please help with a few of my other queries? Help me help the community that's why we're here isn't it.. or maybe not.
If anyone can chime in with a helpful tip or two I'd appreciate it and of course Crash I do obviously appreciate your help also, even if your just feeding me help with the little boy spoon....I'm a big boy dammit!!!! ...hahahaha.. :booty:

[yysnet]

Cheap laser thermometer aimed at the sump will do the trick, tenner ish on ebay.

In the old days putting autos into N and leaving the engine idling caused issues, but I would say 99 percent of people just leave them in D until they park up at the end of their journey.

Would prefer a tiny thermocouple and dip it into the oil in the filling window, infrared thermometer will need right surface reflection ratio to get the right reading.

[Quattro-Charlie]

Would prefer a tiny thermocouple and dip it into the oil in the filling window, infrared thermometer will need right surface reflection ratio to get the right reading.

Ive just picked up a thermocouple for free :biglaugh:.... so will be using that. Just doing a bit more research and waiting to see if anyone else will kindly offer some tips before I attempt the atf change.

[Crasher]

There ain't no filling window, you pump it up from below through a level tube.

I am in a holiday cottage in a foreign country where people talk funny and there are a lot of sheep, both give you strange looks when they realise you are English, the people are suspicious and suddenly talk in a different way and the sheep look relived that we use wellies for walking.......

I tried to copy and paste a link to my photobucket pic of the drain system in cross section but I could not get it to work using my iProd..... it will have to wait until I get back to civilisation.

[rowdy-999]

Would prefer a tiny thermocouple and dip it into the oil in the filling window, infrared thermometer will need right surface reflection ratio to get the right reading.

I found plenty of posts/guides and videos by googling. You may get more hits by inc BMW because they also use a ZF box.

[Quattro-Charlie]

There ain't no filling window, you pump it up from below through a level tube.

I am in a holiday cottage in a foreign country where people talk funny and there are a lot of sheep, both give you strange looks when they realise you are English, the people are suspicious and suddenly talk in a different way and the sheep look relived that we use wellies for walking.......

I tried to copy and paste a link to my photobucket pic of the drain system in cross section but I could not get it to work using my iProd..... it will have to wait until I get back to civilisation.


Take a short holiday to Wales then did you crash?? hahahaha :outtahere

[Quattro-Charlie]

@rowdy-roddy piper Great wrestler....remember him?...died recently I think...don't makem like they used to..:biglaugh:..... Anyways...I will follow that up re including BMW...(spitting on the floor sound!!)...or better yet David Williams dressed as that old pompous lady character who vomits when presented with anything ethnic...hahaha..
getting back on point I have dredged up quite a bit re the tranny job..hmmmm.. haha.. and I'm still at a loss as to my query of how to know if my gearbox data (and oil) has already been updated without vag.com to verify it?..

i dont think that that it's connected but my 3.0 the 171kw ( I think) with 233hp has had a chip done on the ecu to achieve 300hp so the seller told me.. I'm contacting the garage that did it for more info as to which chipping was done... would a gearbox update job be done with the chip modification or am I just clutching at straws...:confused:..

[rowdy-999]

@rowdy-roddy piper Great wrestler....remember him?...died recently I think...


Not into wrestling, but my name comes from the Clint Eastwood character. :D

[Crasher]

Take a short holiday to Wales then did you crash?? hahahaha :outtahere

In one....

[Quattro-Charlie]

@rowdy.....yes agreed except in the mid 80's I wasn't quite old enough to appreciate the shiteness of WWF wrestling, I soon realised that it was crap though, right around the same time I grew hair on my balls.... :bigok:

Crasher are you back to civilisation yet? It would be FAB to see those photo bucket pics re tranny change.....ooops that sounded a bit wrong!!! Hahaha.... and so far no takers on how I can tell if my tranny has had the software update/oil change without the super wizzy vcds gizmo?..:confused:

oh yeah....slightly off topic but would a subframe mount be the same thing as a console? Apparently my rear console :confused: has some play in it, and one of my 4 front subframe mounts is buggered so I thought perhaps they're the same thing???

and regarding that level set tube you were talking about Crasher, is that something already in the transmission or would I need to get one? I thought you just filled it till it poured out!!

[Crasher]

Just doing another Q7 trans fluid change

[Quattro-Charlie]

Excellentay .. :arms:

would be be very helpful for a few close pics thanks Crash. And an answer to my query about telling if the update has been done without vcds. Chearrss!

[Crasher]

errr, Done and gone. What was the other question?

[Quattro-Charlie]

Yeah..haha....just look at my earlier posts. I'll start a new thread on it and maybe find someone interested in helping..

[Surrey Keys]

Interesting thread I have a 2008 A6 quattro with a sealed gearbox with 53k I was looking to get the GB oil changed by Audi as I have heard a lot of different issues with using non Audi dealers, any advice out there!! PS not happy with the headlights either any recommended upgrades going?

Thanks

[Crasher]

It isn't sealed, not by any means. If Audi won't do it, find an independent VAG specialist and ask them to use the Meyle filter kit.

[cozmo]

Can anyone point to (ebay?) a proper service kit with filter, gasket etc for A6 C6 with the the 6 speed auto? (I assume it is the ZF6HP19A)

By the way, what is the correct filter layout? Some shops list this as the proper filter: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-rAAAOSwfVpYpCGF/s-l1600.jpg

But other places list a filter looking like this : http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1NcAAOSwlMFZGsD-/s-l1600.jpg

[Crasher]

The only full kit I know of is the Meyle 100 135 0003

[cozmo]

Thanks.
I'd like a kit with the filter, gasket o-rings and whatnot, but not the oil - but seems hard to find.

EDIT: Or maybe not :
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-135-0003-SK-MEYLE-Parts-kit-automatic-transm-oil-change-fit-AUDI-/391783955028?hash=item5b3824ba54:g:WuQAAOSw8HBZGUz d

[Crasher]

I'd like a kit with the filter, gasket o-rings and whatnot, but not the oil

Yes, the Meyle 100 135 0003/SK or Febi 100266

[cozmo]

Thanks. I'll be getting the Meyle kit. Car has 100k miles now, so time to give the ZF som LTC :-)

[Crasher]

It will thank you by cracking its reverse gear drum....:aargh4:

[lynalldiscovery]

Can anyone point to (ebay?) a proper service kit with filter, gasket etc for A6 C6 with the the 6 speed auto? (I assume it is the ZF6HP19A)

By the way, what is the correct filter layout? Some shops list this as the proper filter: http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/-rAAAOSwfVpYpCGF/s-l1600.jpg

But other places list a filter looking like this : http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1NcAAOSwlMFZGsD-/s-l1600.jpg


Land Rover discovery 3/4 up to 2011 ish runs the zf 6 speeder fitted as std with the plastic sump/filter combined as per your first link, common mod is to fit the steel sump with separate filter as per your second link which is only for the filter itself.
I changed mine from plastic to steel works well, apparently some people have trouble getting gasket on metal version to seal not sure why?

Lots of talk on the disco forums about getting a gearbox flush and not doing the filter at all, flush changes all the oil which even dropping the sump doesnt get out.

I did the filter and oil on wifes old A4 3.0 tdi and on her latest A6 I will, just be doing the oil and leaving existing filter in place and change oil every couple of years.
Bristol transmissions highly recommended on the land rover forums

[cozmo]

Spoke to a well renowned gearbox specialist not far from where I live today. They meant that a regular oil change was useless, and the only way to go was a flush. He then quoted me around £700 for the flush job.....

Thoughts?

[lynalldiscovery]

700 quid for a flush is madness, just read recent post on the D3 forum guy had a flush and all parameters reset 130 quid from a well known land rover specialist, lots of positive reviews, I dont think its a long term fix for all gearboxes but 130 quid versus a 2.5k rebuild has to be worth a try?
Dr Tranny also gets good write ups.

Ive just done my gearbox oil again by removing the pipe to the oil cooler and putting the pipe into a measured bucket, start engine and the t/c empties the box for you, got 3.77 litres out, put 4 ltrs back in using a hand pump, then ran box to correct temperature and checked/adjusted level, basically a flush is doing what I did twice until you get clean oil out.

Its one of them things that once its been demystified it will become common diy stuff, they have just worked out how to do the 8 speed box and thats been out since 2012.

[lynalldiscovery]

Have a read here DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - FILO's autobox oil change (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic55010.html?highlight=filo+flush)

[cozmo]

Thanks, that is very informative.

So by disconnecting the pipe at the oil cooler, you can have the tc empty itself into a bucket - around 4 litres as you said. What about the other 4-5 litres, drop the pan and drain them from there?

[lynalldiscovery]

I think the idea is you then pump 4 litres back in via the oil cooler stub, couple the hose back up and then run it again to mix up the old and new oil then drain it again via the oil cooler pipe, the proper machine does it better obviously, but the guy in the thread couldnt find anyone to do it so came up with his idea, its now known as the Filo oil change so hes famous probably for all time!
I first did mine 2 yrs ago and then again last week, only single flush ie 4 out and 4 back in, will do it again in the next year or two, its not as good as a proper flush but is fast and easy to do plus cheap as well, in fact i would say its quicker than a std engine oil change, the only two points to watch are 1, makes sure car is dead level I used a sprit level on the slam panel and 2, make sure gbox sump is at correct temperature when doing level check.

I pumped my oil out into one of them vacuum oil extractor tools mainly as it has clear markings on the side for quantities, then I used a hand pump again with quantity markings to pump it back in a little to much dont matter as when you do level check the excess will come out of the level hole.

Ive got enough oil to do wifes A6 and when I do I will try and remember to take some pics etc.

[cozmo]

Thanks for sharing great info.

But while at it - after getting the 4 liters out of the TC - why not open the drain plug on the sump and drain as much as possible from there too?

Then pump back the 4 liters into the TC via the hose stub, then pump as much as possible into the fill-hole on gearbox. And finally monitor the temp, move lever around, and pump more into the fill on the gearbox as needed.

Then it should be possible to get around 8 liters out....

[lynalldiscovery]

Because there wont be much more than 1/2 a litre in there at best as youve just pumped it out, I would say the rest would be in the valve block etc, but Im no expert.

A lof of these figures quoted are dry figures ie the component has never seen oil before, quite normal for the book to say engine takes 6.8 litres, but any more than 6 litre puts it over the max mark, so you may find the book says the box takes 8 and you will only ever get 6 out at best if you are really determined.
Im sure all the invoices will say 8 litres no matter what they actually use!

Ive done many over the years not flushes but drain and refill, old 4 speed auto land rovers, newer 6 speed auto land rovers, plenty of 5 auto speed mercs and rough rule is 4 litres pretty much covers them all.
Some of the mercs were good as the t/c had a drain screw fitted so you got a decent amount of oil out in one hit, Iirc the merc sprinter autos still have this feature but not the cars.