Potential A7 Purchase, yay or nay?

[Akash]

Hi all,

I've been umming and ahhing about an "upgrade" to my current A6 2.0 Facelift 2015 ever since I got a A7 272 3.0 as a loaner from Audi. Nothing wrong with mine, I just loved the V6 and having been in one for 8 years, then going to a 4-cyl, I thought I would not miss it ...I was wrong.

So I know a few are saying to hang tight for the C8 range but I think budget-wise, this will not stretch given new they'll be 60k no doubt and by the time they get affordable, it'll be a number a couple of years and while the 218/272 engines are affordable on the A6 currently, I can't find the spec/colour. With that out of the way, I have potentially found an early facelift A7 - welcome to any input!

Car in question is around the 30k mark which by far is the cheapest I've seen for the spec. Unsure what is "wrong" given the price but I'm hoping to see it over the weekend and make a decision based on what I see - hopefully nothing is wrong and it was a simple trade-in.
As mentioned, 64/November 2014 plate but facelift. 25k on the clock, tech pack, floret silver, black edition (bose, black styling pack, 21" rotors), HUD, matrix led and I think the rest is standard with the s-line/back edition model.

What I will be missing from mine is the Mythos black - Loved the wet-look colour (hated the maintenance), interior lighting pack, folding mirrors. I'll be gaining 8k miles and a year older than mine - Otherwise I think it's the same as in both have tech pack, both black styling pack, both have rotors.

So am I mad?
I'm a HP guy not PCP so the aim is to own it at the end, hopefully have equity in it in 4-5 years and go from there be it keep it longer or chop it in for the then newer model.

Price to me seems ok given it is an A7, fairly high spec, mileage is fine for the age and its a 272 engine

[Akash]

I'm an idiot! Can someone move this to the A7 side please

[M1tchy]

I love most things on my A7, mainly it's rareity and the comments I get from completely random people. One I'll never forget is a young bloke pulling along side me on the motorway, matching my speed and mouthing "you have a lovely car" thumbs up and sped off. The most memorable though was a really old lady getting out of her Nissan micra as I was getting into mine saying you have a lovely car there young man. Think I was happier with the young man bit!

They are identical inside and the same chassis as far as I'm aware but I love love mine and wouldn't want to swap for anything.


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[Akash]

Difference is, yours is not an A7 but a sister of the Starship Enterprise in that Daytona colour and BiTurbo engine along with almost every spec box ticked :- )

I did not like the A7 at all when they first came out but I've really changed my mind since driving one and since the facelift.
I'm pretty much 99% on the one I've seen - just need to get the service history and quotation on the balance of the amount I need to fund.

The other issue is the sale of mine might have fallen through just now so that might mean I'm a little short but lets see

[Tripletrouble]

About time you updated your car blog Mitch...

[M1tchy]

Yeah I know sorry. Not had time to do any for ages. Been on a promotion course with work. All done now and got a few days off before starting the new job on Monday.

Fingers crossed I can get a good amount done tomorrow


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[AK88]

have you tested a 2013/14 bitdi A7, or is the facelift and 272 a must?

looking at whats on the market around the price range I would be more tempted by one of these, more power and held their value very well

[Akash]

have you tested a 2013/14 bitdi A7, or is the facelift and 272 a must?

looking at whats on the market around the price range I would be more tempted by one of these, more power and held their value very well Interesting point. The loaner I had was a 272 so I've not had/tried anything better. The only reason I am even considering the 218 is that from what I've read online, the 218/272 and bitdi are in actual fact the same lump right down to the hardware that surrounds it but it has been tuned up/down accordingly. That might be wrong but a number of threads suggest this.

But more importantly, the facelift is a must. My issue is I have been spoilt a little with two facelift A6's in the last year and a half. The first was a lemon and was rejected, the second what I have now which apart from engine is perfect. To go to a pre-facelift now just does not sit well with me - I'd be dropping to an older MMI for instance (I'm into my gadgets and tech). Having said that, if the loaner was a bitdi, who knows but I'm intentionally staying well away from them just so I don't get tempted :- )

[AK88]

that's fair,

[M1tchy]

About time you updated your car blog Mitch...

Sorry for nicking your thread.....I got a few hours on the kit car today and blog is updated [emoji3]


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[M1tchy]

Akash, I agree, I couldn't go back a model although not sure how much of a downgrade the current a7 to the older a7 would be. Obviously there are differences and only gadget geeks like us would notice.


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[ukgroucho]

The only reason I am even considering the 218 is that from what I've read online, the 218/272 and bitdi are in actual fact the same lump right down to the hardware that surrounds it but it has been tuned up/down accordingly. That might be wrong but a number of threads suggest this.

218 / 245 / 272 are the same lump the BiTdi is based on it but has a bunch of engineering changes particularly for enhanced cooling. Greater water circulation, more oil splash around the cylinder heads, strengthened pistons, reshaped cylinder head (for a slightly lower compression ratio), piston pins run in brass sleeves and have a special diamond like carbon coating for reduced friction and "optimised" piston rings.

[Akash]

Thanks for the slight correction :- ) I'm due to leave shortly to see/test the A7 so fingers crossed. I have since been pinged over one that has come in that could be a plan B or C - Another A7 but while it's the same year/facelift model, it's only done 15k miles which puts it to 7500 miles a year. BUT it's a 218 Quattro rather than 272. Spec seems the same but in the Black I like however it's missing the Rotors. Interestingly I keep looking at Mythos black vs the Floret Silver and in pictures, despite really liking Mythos Black on the A6, I seem to prefer Floret Silver on the A7 over the Mythos. The black seems to look more boxy on it whereas the A7 shows off the curves more.

I think I know what the general consensus here will be which is to go for the 272 ! And the complete fallback is the A6 I mention in the opening. Either way, while someone wants my car and my value is still roughly there, it makes sense changing now or not at all until the current term ends in 4 years (read this as: 4 years I'll make do with a nearly new A6 2.0 and grumble daily on how I prefer the v6 until I change)

[Akash]

Phew! 7 hour round-trip just to see it and ... it's a nice car
Paintwork is near flawless - there are a number of stone chips in the front I'll have to sort out but not obvious initially.
Inside, passenger seat is fine, drivers seat right bolster (the upright one as opposed to the bum side) does have a little wear but unlike the 6 month old A6 I had seen, there are no significant creasing - the wear I can I think sort out with some black dye but it's not something that obvious so not majorly bothered.

The black edition interior does have some marking. I think this is basically down to the black edition glossy black and not that it is abnormally scratched. Obvious areas are around the start button for instance. Again, this is something potentially sortable with some light buffing but suddenly I realised how much I preferred the standard silver/alumin coloured trim...I'm sure I have just as many marks but not at all obvious in mine.

I checked tyres today and while tread markers are soon going to be level, the tread measure shows closer to 4mm not 3 front and closer to 5 in the rear.

Test Drive:
I was allowed to floor it a few times so that was tested in terms of gear changes, quattro (ie: no spinning of the wheels at all) and overall unleashing of the 3.0. The SLIGHT bug-bear I don't remember hearing in the loaner is there is sometimes a little diesel clatter as the revs drop (during traffic for instance). Normal? I believe my 2.7 tdi C6 did the same from memory.

aside from that, it drove perfectly...for the first 2 minutes before the rear left tyre under-inflated message popped up. They'll check that but visually it looked fine. We carried on and everything was very smooth.

End result, I've put down a holding deposit. This is subject to my potential buyer getting funds for my A6 - if that happens, mine is settled and handed over then I'll go for the a7 for Tuesday delivery. If not, well put it this way, lie or not, I had the salesman speech about another person interested in it.

The only annoying thing about today really was the above spiel and a little more - that it would have to be finalised before start of the month (quite simply - for their month-end figures) AND be delivered for Tuesday. I suppose it's not a major issue but I really do hate the pressured-selling which up till now has not existed at all with this guy.

All in all- 7hours well spent. I'm paying the bulk via a very low bank loan (hence the reason I need mine settled) and a very small finance amount to cover the rest - something that got approved in the dealership without any issues.

Now as I have a deadline apparently until 2pm - lets see. My friend does not think he will have an answer from the underwriters by then but more closer to close of play. So if indeed there is someone interested, then I'll have to go over to Plan B which is an A7 Quattro 3.0 which is essentially the same car (need to check on engine) with half the mileage but 400 miles away. They kindly sent me a personalised video of it and apart from the smaller wheels, it looked like a nice car.

Will update tomorrow :-)

[Akash]

No update as of yet so I'm going to look at Plan B in the mean time. How much difference is there between the 218 and 272 engine in terms of noticable power. I know I'm at 190 currently so 190 > 272 is a 82 increase to 190>218 . If there was a choice then between the A7 218 Quattro and a A6 272 Quattro... ?

[ukgroucho]

How much difference is there between the 218 and 272 engine in terms of noticable power. I know I'm at 190 currently so 190 > 272 is a 82 increase to 190>218 . If there was a choice then between the A7 218 Quattro and a A6 272 Quattro... ?

The difference between a 218 and a 272 is very noticeable. I test drove a 218 allroad (so quattro & s-Tronic) and a BiTdi A7 before I bought my BiTdi allroad. The 218 felt very similar in power delivery to my (then) C6 3.0 Tdi quattro which was 220 to 230 BHP. The BiTdi is a completely different animal.
Last year mine was in for a service and they gave me a 272 allroad as a relief car. It felt a lot closer (performance wise) to my BiTdi than it did to the 218.

One way to think about this is to consider the differential in surplus power or better still torque. It's kinda like disposable income... you need a certain amount of £ to exist and the more disposable income you have beyond that the more choices you have about discretionary purchases etc.
Cars need a certain amount of torque just to be drivable, the greater the amount of surplus torque beyond that "base" the more you're going to feel it.

Here is a simplistic numerical way to think about it - and it's got lots of caveats 'cos I talking torque and not bhp (because torque has a bigger effect on acceleration) and I'm not considering extra weight for a V6 etc.
Let's say that an A6 needs 300nM just to be driveable. A 190 has 400nM so an "extra" 100nM (a 33% surplus). A 218 has 500nM so an "extra" 200nM (a 66% surplus). A 272 has 580nM so an "extra" 280nM (a 93% surplus). (and a 320 with 650nM would be near 117% surplus).
My point is it's that surplus torque that turns a car from feeling "OK" to being lively. The 0-100kph figures tell part of the story (although actually they mask the massive mid-range acceleration of the more powerful engines). These are numbers for saloons.
190 400nM 8.2 secs (or 7.7 secs for a quattro)
218 500nM 6.6 secs
272 580nM 5.5 secs
320 650nM 5.0 secs - although the ZF gearbox probably adds up to half a second into this time - with "launch control" (a bit abusive and I've only ever done it once) I provoked a 4.9 sec 0 - 60 MPH out of my allroad and it's supposed to do about 5.5 secs, and that is exactly what you get if you just floor it in sports mode.

Personally I would not buy the 218 without quattro. As for your A7 218 vs A6 272 dilemma... you gotta make up your mind based on what tickles your enjoyment.
The interiors of the two cars are very similar - so if your primary concern is driving experience then the 272 A6. "same" interior, same chassis, more power.
If you're driven by the looks of the A7 (and I'd agree they've grown on me since they were first launched) then take that path.

[Akash]

ukgroucho - You've really helped here! Obviously I know the basics, go for the higher number! But the in's and out's while it's there at the back of the mind, nice to be reminded.

It was in this case between 3 cars all quattro. There used to be a non-quattro A7 but that I threw out the window once everyone replied..."Quattro" (or even buy a ford if its not !)
In this case, it's A7 272 Quattro, A7 218 Quattro or the A6 which I forgot what it is now.

Anyhow, I emailed the dealer in question about my concerns in regards to pressure and about this mystery person that is suddenly interested. Also that I did a huge amount of driving just to see it, put deposit so I'm not a time-waster. But if he is still adamant in giving it to the other person if I don't meet his deadlines, then to go for it. Also explained I have seen the A7 218 Quattro so I wont' be the one losing out (as much).
Got a call straight away to say they will do what they can to make the sale with me and extend it into March - so not to worry !

Who knows where the mystery man is now but all in all - I think the 272 A7 is going to happen !

Thanks again for your really informative reply because I was ready to backout after the pressure tactics and just go for the A7 but really speaking, if it's not an A7, still stick to the 272 quattro and drop to an A6 albeit I won't visually feel/see anything different, I will feel the power/pull/maybe even fuel efficiency

[Corb2000]

Just to add my twopence worth, the 272 is a very good combination of cost/power/economy & the piano black interior is a real pain to keep clean & avoid damage to. The outer bolster of my 11 mth old driver's seat is also looking rough with just 15k on the clock - it doesn't look like the quality you'd expect in this price of car. Other than that and the occasional issue with manoeuvring around multi storey car parks the A7 is a fab car & much more 'special' than the A6 or A8 imo...


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[Akash]

Thanks Corb - I am an OCD person when it comes to cleaning etc but yes the Piano black scared even me. I did start looking at replacement alu trim parts but I think this is a future thing and at the very least, after I get the car!
When the Black Edition/Piano Black interior first came out, I wanted nothing but that - scoured the internet for the parts for months/years and now I've seen what it could be... I don't want it :- )

Once it arrives, I will try SRP or poorboys on it and see if that buffs out the scratches otherwise I'll replace it. The biggest annoyance will be around the start button and that looking at my A6 is part of the mmi console.

Car-Parks never been an issue - I google where I am going if ever to an alien place and if its a multi-storey, the A3 + wife drives :)

[Corb2000]

These are all the products / techniques I've found so far for polishing out marks on the piano black -

Piano Black Trim....sooo many scratches!! Help...plzz? (http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258451)

Guide: Removing Scratches From Piano Black Trim - Detailing - MX5Nutz Forum (http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=142382)

http://www.radtech.com/products/icecreme

Bilt Hamber auto-QD | Polymer-Charged Quick Detailing Spray (http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/bilt-hamber-auto-qd-cat14.html)

Nanolex Final Finish | Quick Detailing Spray For Coatings (http://www.polishedbliss.co.uk/acatalog/nanolex-final-finish-cat14.html)

Chemical Guys G6 - Hyper Dressing - Clean Your Car (http://www.cleanyourcar.co.uk/interior/plastic-and-trim-dressings/chemical-guys-g6-hyper-dressing/prod_1337.html)

Quik Interior Detailer™ Wipes | Meguiar's (http://www.meguiarsdirect.com/product/quik-interior-detailer-wipes)

I do plan my parking using sites like Parkopedia but sometimes entrance barrier kerbs and ramps are tight for a long and wide car like the A7 even if the actual car park spaces are a good size and well laid out. My wife doesn't expect to drive or use her car when we are travelling together so the A7 does the majority of our annual miles. I had alloygators fitted to protect the rims - they do the job but do need refitting occasionally as they have a tendency to move away from the rim if you hit a kerb hard...

[MLC]

I paid £32k for a 65 plate 272 Quattro BE with tech pack, 6k miles, in September 2016. Bought it as an Audi approved. If you haggle HARD they will drop the price. I specifically wanted 20" wheels as I thought they looked better (as well as the bonus of significantly cheaper tyres). I'm averaging 37mpg and that's with liberal use of sport mode. The overtaking ability is pretty epic.
Down sides are that it's a pain to park. It's a huge car. There are a lot of spaces it just doesn't fit in.
The piano black interior does scratch easily. I simply use brasso. Works a treat at removing fine scratches and marks

[Akash]

Blimey that is a cracking offer. Mine is almost done now so no use backing out now especially as the cheapest one that covers my spec requirements/matches this one is around 37k even then I'm seeing 40k A7's without techpack

[ukgroucho]

Blimey that is a cracking offer. Mine is almost done now so no use backing out now especially as the cheapest one that covers my spec requirements/matches this one is around 37k even then I'm seeing 40k A7's without techpack
Seriously! Holy cow .. my allroad which was £55k and change list I paid £45k and a bit for.... new factory order

[El-Cap]

I had piano black trim on my previous Jaguar XF S. and very nice it looked too.

However due to that experience I now have the aluminium trim in my A7 and deliberately avoided Piano black! Although it does look very nice (until it is scratched)

'Nuff said!


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[Akash]

Update: It almost fell through at the last minute. The whole process has been issue after issue with initially the finance company of the buyer of my A6 and ending up with Barclays not authorising the payment. To top things off, I had a 2 hour wait on the phone to get fraud dept to lift the block at which point I almost chucked the whole thing in.

But, I managed to get through , get it resolved and I am now a proud owner of an A7. I'll of course take the usual pics and post them up on the A7 forum but all in all, I think it was an ok deal.
A7 3.0 272 engine Black Edition in Floret Silver. 25k on the clock for a touch over 29k in the end.
Tech pack with HUD, Black Edition so the usual Bose/Heated seats etc, heated rear seats and whatever else it has.

Journey there was in a hire car, a 17-plate 2 day old Hyundai Tuscan. Horrible car especially for such a long journey but it got me there...annoyingly because of Barclays delays, it took me over onto the next day so more £££.
Journey back however was brilliant in the A7. Took it easy initially but once the road opened up, just a touch of the pedal and off I went.

I also downloaded the maps to update on the way home but clever cloggs here forgot to copy it to the SD card I took with me! All updated now and I did my usual factory reset and start again so it's all setup my way.

And finally, just got out the car after a bunch of VCDS changes such as needle sweep, key fob tap to close boot etc. I'm sure I'll find more but so far its a cracking car

Thanks for all the advice, I think I made the right decision but time will tell.

[Corb2000]

Great! Have fun...


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[cheekeemonkey]

Great news!! These things test us but the outcome makes it worthwhile.

PS. Time to change your signature now

[ukgroucho]

Hey Akash! So glad to hear it all worked out in the end. Have fun with your new toy!

[wildbore]

...I'll of course take the usual pics and post them up on the A7 forum...

That's a quiet and lonely place. Better sticking them up here; at least we will be able to admire them.