Clutch slip on chipped GT Tdi

[Chris T O'Phart]

I have a 2004 MkIV 130 GT Tdi with 45k miles and full VW dealer service history. I recently had it re-mapped for torque rather than outright power. I don't know what the new ft/lb figure is but I assume less than 300. The performance is great, but it appears to have clutch slip around 2,400 rpm, particularly in top four gears. I. My questions are:-
- Could this be anything other than clutch slip, ie does the DMF slip, if so how?
- What size is the plate in the '04 130bhp TD, 219 or 228?
- Would a straight replacement cure the issue or is an upgrade needed?
- If I upgrade what would be a sensible minimum, ie just friction plate, pressure plate, DMF, new car?
- I hear horror stories about deglazing a clutch, does this ever work?

I don't intend replacing the car soon, so a quick fix is out and I have become addicted to the performance, so don't want to loose the new map. I need somethin that is not going to require my wife to do weight training to use the clutch and need to keep the cost reasonable.

So an eay-peasy set of questions for you lot of boffins I'm sure. This is my first post, so don't let me down now! Thanks

[mobitune]

I'm sure he will be along soon, however if not, pm DevonUtopia - he seems to know his stuff about this sort of thing.

Pete

[Stevef.]

The clutch plate on the 130 is 240mm if you were to upgrade, minimum you would need would be clutch plate and pressure plate these arnt too expensive the flywheel is the expensive bit.:)

[Crasher]

I would recommend a new VAG clutch and flywheel.

[Col]

At 45k the clutch should be just fine.

It could be glazed causing the slip.

Sounds totally mad but try a few 4th gear starts to un-glaze it !

This will of course possibly do two things...

1, If it is worn out (which it shouldn't be at 45k) it will probably kill it, nothing to much lost as it would need replacing anyway.

2, It will sort it !

The choice and risk is yours.

[Chris T O'Phart]

Thanks guys but as you can see from these responses it is difficult to know which way to go. OEM - What is the torque limit on that and why might I need a new DMF? Upgrade - to what, is there a recognised upgrade path?

So far I like the idea of beating the living crud out of the existing unit - not sure it'll work, but I'l feel better for it!

[adamss24]

See www.allardmotorcompany.com on the web and see their tunning options. Thats what devonutopia is running at the moment. Perhaps you will just need a stronger pressure plate but is wise to upgrade to a lighter, single mass(solid) flywell to unleash few more poneys and let you put all that torque to the road.

[Stevef.]

I like what Big col suggested,my only worry there would be risking damage to the flywheel ,slipping clutchs seem to be one of the side effects of chipping on some peoples cars the torque is drastically increased when chipped at 45K id imagine your clutch/flywheel etc would be ok if deglazing it doesnt work then you could fit a better clutch disc designed to handle more torque(different friction material) if it still slips it means your pressure plate isnt strong enough to keep the disc pressed against the flywheel and transmit drive to the gear box so you will need a stronger one of them too these usually come as a pair but i have seen them for sale individually what exact clutch and pp you would need for your car I dont know you would have to do a bit of research into that, ive seen some made by tecniclutch on ebay but again i dont know what they are like they are £130 for clutch & pressure plate, the Dual mass flywheels have internal components that wear out through time and sometimes need replaced, they also have been known to fail at low miles. Dont buy one unless you really need one they are expensive, if you end up putting a new clutch in have someone inspect the flywheel while the box is off to check its condition.

Sorry if this has confused you more.

[Pauloz]

I like what Big col suggested,my only worry there would be risking damage to the flywheel ,slipping clutchs seem to be one of the side effects of chipping on some peoples cars the torque is drastically increased when chipped at 45K id imagine your clutch/flywheel etc would be ok if deglazing it doesnt work then you could fit a better clutch disc designed to handle more torque(different friction material) if it still slips it means your pressure plate isnt strong enough to keep the disc pressed against the flywheel and transmit drive to the gear box so you will need a stronger one of them too these usually come as a pair but i have seen them for sale individually what exact clutch and pp you would need for your car I dont know you would have to do a bit of research into that, ive seen some made by tecniclutch on ebay but again i dont know what they are like they are £130 for clutch & pressure plate, the Dual mass flywheels have internal components that wear out through time and sometimes need replaced, they also have been known to fail at low miles. Dont buy one unless you really need one they are expensive, if you end up putting a new clutch in have someone inspect the flywheel while the box is off to check its condition.

Sorry if this has confused you more.

Perfectly agree. Thats the problem with chipping tho bud - clutches cant be designed to cope with a wide torque band and still have a soft pedal, because to cope the clamp load needs to be higher.
A slipping clutch will quickly take out the flywheel - as in the top of the flywheel are grease immersed springs. Get them hot, they'll fek it.
Theres a company in Banbury called Helix, who takes OE clutches, dismantles them and beefs em up. In some cases, he also can replace the DMF with a solid one.... but be warned, this could have an adverse effect on longevity of gearbox and driveshafts.

It never makes sense not to change the complete clutch and bearing/CSC. Certainly not just the plate! They wear together, and the vast majority of the cost is the labour just to get to it. DMF needs to be tested every time.

[devonutopia]

I recommend getting the helix single mass flywheel and sachs clutch. A good performing mid-range clutch. I already run a kevlar clutch rated to 400 lb/ft with the stock DMF, which is holding up well. All being well I hope to import a SPEC clutch and flywheel from the States, rated to over 500 lb/ft at the wheels. I might be needing that soon. ;)

[Pauloz]

I recommend getting the helix single mass flywheel and sachs clutch. A good performing mid-range clutch. I already run a kevlar clutch rated to 400 lb/ft with the stock DMF, which is holding up well. All being well I hope to import a SPEC clutch and flywheel from the States, rated to over 500 lb/ft at the wheels. I might be needing that soon. ;)
A Sachs clutch, even its its a new one rather than one of their reman offerings they keep sneaking through, wont be any better than any other 'oe quality' clutch. Theyre all designed for the same purpose. What you get in a LuK/Valeo/Sachs box is quite often the same in any case. Nothing else is worth bothering with especially QH, transmech and Borg and Beck (Actually Firstline now), absolute crap in the box the vast majority of the time.

Give Terry at Helix a ring and im sure he'll point you in the right direction even if he cant help directly. He makes his own diaghram springs and drive straps and puts them into OE cover shells. You dont need a different frition material on the plate, thats only for racing, and will be a bitch to drive.

[Chris T O'Phart]

Thanks all round guys. I eventually did the cheapest, easiest thing first. As suggested by BigCol I de-glazed. It only needed one 4th gear start; lots of slip initially, then some smoke and eventually traction.

To date this seems to have done the trick (touch wood) however if it re-appears I now have a good number of options to try. Many thanks. :D

Now then, a new post I think - something along the lines of "How do you get rid of the smell of burnt clutch?" Answers on a postcard to ...............

[Col]

Excellent news !

Hope it lasts.

[Pauloz]

Excellent news !

Hope it lasts.
Don't think it will sorry bud.... once burnt, a clutch never works the same again. :(

[Col]

Don't think it will sorry bud.... once burnt, a clutch never works the same again. :(

I beg to differ, especially with only 45k on it !

I suppose you have to say that as it would be bad for business if you didn't!

[Pauloz]

I beg to differ, especially with only 45k on it !

I suppose you have to say that as it would be bad for business if you didn't!
Not at all bud. Theres no point telling porkies to get sales, would backfire every single time ;):p
After the friction lining has gotten hot, it hardens and gets brittle, no matter how few miles its done. It will never provide the friction it once did, and will start to break up.

[Crasher]

And if they get too hot, the DMF starts to fail.