PDA

View Full Version : Question How do I replace the Camshaft Position Sensor on Alhambra 2.0TDI 2008



g0gcd
23-01-2016, 06:56 PM
I am trying to solve a cruise control related problem and the investigation has led me to the Camshaft Position Sensor. I have ordered a replacement sensor whilst I trace through the wiring (I hope that it's the wiring!) but should it be the sensor, I can't find any clear guidance as to how the go about changing the sensor.

It looks like it's mounted behind the camshaft drive pulley and that all I need to do is to pop the cambelt cover off and use a socket through the pulley to unbolt the sensor. However, I have read somewhere that the cambelt and pulley need to come off to gain access.

Question is: Can anyone who has actually done the job please advise?

It's the BRT engine, 2.0TDI SOHC.

Many thanks
John

EDIT - I have now eliminated the wiring - definitely the sensor, so here we go.....

EDIT2 - OK, so lesson learned. Check the sensor before installing it.
This is definitely the BRT engine. The label on the timing belt cover says so. It was as I thought, however, to change the sensor quickly, you have to accept cutting the plug off and remaking the wire afterwards. To replace the sensor with the plug, as purchased, it looks like the timing belt and camshaft pulley have to be removed. Guess which one I went for, being electronics oriented....
If you can accept mutilating a perfectly new sensor, then the sequence is:
Engine cover off
Air filter cover off, disconnecting the MAF and air inlet pipe
Upper/outer plastic timing belt cover off (two clips and it lifts off)
Remove the 10mm AF sensor retaining bolt
Cut the plug off the old sensor
Pull the sensor and the cable clear. The sensor is located with a plastic alignment lug into the cylinder head so there's a bit of resistance to begin with
Refit is the reverse, except for making the plug off, rather than cutting it. The bolt might benefit from a bit of screw lock on it.

I used a 'chicken string' on the 10mm bolt. The risk of losing it into the engine was high, so I slackened it off three turns and then put a slipknot of garden twine around the thread, so that if it dropped out of the socket, I'd have it on the string. The bolt can then be removed with confidence and usually you don't then drop it. (Just like having a safety wire when tightrope walking - not that I'd try that!) Likewise, when reinstalling it, the slipknot is on until the bolt is definitely threaded and then by pulling on the tail of the knot, then loop can be slackened and removed before fully tightening it home. Note that there is a washer behind the bolt head, so get the slip knot on the thread below the washer.

The bolt is almost under the belt and there's not a lot of room but a standard ratchet / socket will just squeeze in there to crack the thread. Then the socket and finger can be used to remove it completely. Make sure that all tools/fingers are as clean as possible, because you will be rubbing on the timing belt, which does not like oil/grease on it.

Having completely the exercise, the engine was very sluggish to start. I repeated my checks on the sensor and found that the output signal was reading low, so it's either a faulty sensor or my wiring job wasn't as good as it should have been. Having run out of daylight, I retired to the workshop with the old sensor and connected it up to a 5 volt supply. It worked properly - a small washer waved in front of it caused the output to toggle. However, after four minutes or so, it stopped. Just what my cruise control was doing. SO I'm now really confident that I've found the original fault, I'm just cross that I didn't check the replacement before installing it. (see lesson learned!)

When I get the new sensor working properly, I'll close off the thread. I'm just waiting for the rain to stop to go out and do some proper electrical tests before having to potentially repeat the exercise!

EDIT3: I've reinstalled the old sensor - car now starts properly. The 'new' eBay sensor works, just not on this car. Back to the drawing board

EDIT4: Now I've finished, I find this: How to change a G40 Cam position sensor - 10 minute job (http://www.fixmyvw.com/how-to-change-a-g40-cam-position-sensor-10-minute-job/) Apparently there's a grommet that, when removed, allows the plug to go through. Aaaargh! I didn't need to cut the plug off and resolder it .... Still, when I try the next sensor....

EDIT5: Old sensor started to work properly/consistently whilst off the car. Having now re-installed it, not only does the car start properly, the cruise control now works properly too. Now I just wait for it to break again. I hope that my notes are useful to someone.

EDIT6: The story is now properly closed. I was advised (thanks Dave) to use Intermotor 419 44 0850 and this has worked properly. Alternative, eBay sourced sensors did not and this appears to be due to the colour of the plug. The Intermotor part has a white plug and pulls the sense to 0V when sensing metal. The others, with a black plug, pull the sense to 0V when not sensing metal, i.e. the other way up. Changing the sensor is a 30 minute job and needs some care but is not difficult and does not need any special tools. The Cam Shaft Sensor failing will not show the MIL light, nor restrict the engine revs but will cause cruise control to drop out. An intermittent sensor will cause the engine to be sluggish to start and to feel a little bit lumpy when running....

MyDave2003
25-02-2016, 02:01 AM
Hi There,

I found this really helpful Thanks - seems these sensors cause the Cruise control to drop out then?
I'm finding that I have exactly the same issue, but mine seems to sort itself out, if I go round a fairly sharp right hand bend, or roundabout - or at least it appears to?
Do you reckon this is wiring, or just a sensor?
The VAG.com says intermittent signal, but I thought things like this would put an engine management light on?
Think I'll be trying a new sensor, as this only starts playing up once warm - like you were describing, and is intermittent.

Thanks again for your post, and the link

g0gcd
25-02-2016, 09:21 AM
My issue was engine temperature related and having got the sensor out and tested it, I could confirm that it was the sensor. I fitted an eBay sourced replacement but that lit the whole dashboard up, so I have refitted the old sensor. Now I know for certain what the problem is, I'll get a dealer part and fit that.
Two things surprised me. Yes I got the intermittent code using VAG-COM but I didn't get the dash light indicating a fault. I also found a VW training book that states that when the Camshaft Position Sensor goes faulty, the engine restricts the revs to 3200 rpm. That also didn't occur in my vehicle.
From your description, I would be looking for broken wiring. If the cruise burst back into life after applying force to the wiring, then I would suggest that a connector or wiring is suspect. In my case, it was the sensor itself. Primary suspect would be the connector in front of the engine. A squirt of WD40 might help. If the fault is further back towards the ECU, then that's going to be difficult to find.
Are you electronics minded? If so, disconnect the sensor at this plug and use a 2.2k pull up resistor from the middle pin to +5. This should drag the voltage up to about 2 to 3v. If that happens, the wiring to the ECU is ok. Check the other two pins for 5V with respect to battery negative and -12v with respect to battery positive.
I was able to get my sensor off and apply 5V to it in the shed. waving a magnet around it caused the output to switch between 0v and floating - until it got warm...

What is really disconcerting is that on the motorway, I can be trundling along when the cruise drops out and if I don't touch anything it can re-engage. Was doing 70, took my foot off when catching up and then suddenly I'm off back to 70 again....

Let me know if I can help any further and I'm really glad my investigations have helped somebody else - I was beginning to think that my cruise control system was completely destroyed!

John

MyDave2003
01-03-2016, 01:22 AM
Hi John,

Thought I'd update you on my sensor issue - I purchased a sensor from an eBay seller, (Chose an INTERMOTOR - CAMSHAFT POSITION SENSOR - 19050), after comparing the part number I had, to their posting.
This arrived Saturday, so promptly fitted it, but flagged up a sensor fault straight away - Tried to clear it, but came back immediately. (have contacted the seller..)
Anyway, I was off today, so took the plunge, and ordered a sensor from Euro Car parts - (part Number 419440850), fitted it, cleared the fault log - fault cleared, and not returned since.
Cruise control restored, and improved engine performance - hope the fuel consumption might get a bit better too, but time will tell on this one.
Maybe the part I bought would be suitable for your Engine too?

Anyway, thanks again for your help on this problem....

I do have one more question though on a totally different subject, that you might be able to help on - I have a yellow lamp symbol, with an exclamation mark in it, that illuminated on start up, but goes off once I press the brake pedal? I read somewhere that this is normal, and that the system checks for continuity, but can only make the brake circuit, once the brake pedal pressed?
Other places say this is a bulb fault, but I don't see any signs of any faulty bulbs.
I did have a rear light go, and the symbol stayed on after a brake peal press - so I believe the circuit is working correctly. (confirmed rear lamp fault with PC and lead).
The owners manual is not clear on this, so wondered if you could advise what happens to your vehicle?

Any Help appreciated,

Thanks

Dave

g0gcd
01-03-2016, 07:58 PM
Dave! Yo the man!
I wish that I hadn't ordered a replacement on Saturday, but if that does the same as yours did, then I'll try the EuroCar Parts part number. The original part on my car didn't have a number on it, which was a problem. The sensor I ordered was against the car VIN, so I thought it was the right bit but it did like yours .. making like a christmas tree.

Anyway, I think that your yellow light is the external light monitor lamp. Mine is in a display unit, so it's a red symbol. It does the same as yours - an exclamation mark until I press the brake pedal. This seems to be normal behaviour, if a little confusing. I thought originally that it did that because I had LED number plate and side lights but replacing these with 'candles' didn't change the display, so that's just what it does.....

I'm pleased that we traced your cruise control fault to a cam shaft sensor (not logical is it?) and if I'm unlucky a second time, I'll try the EuroCar part.

Thanks for the info....

How are you getting on with your burnt out blower? You seem to have got a bit of a problem car....

John

MyDave2003
02-03-2016, 02:38 AM
Hi John, Thanks for the info on the light symbol - I believe mine goes red if there is a bulb failure - might have to try this one out by purposely removing a bulb to prove it to myself.
The Blower Motor is all sorted thanks to good old EBay - took a while to strip things out, but really easy once you have a replacement motor.
Must have been a pretty nasty smell, and I guess smoke looking at the melted plastic on the old one.
The niggles are all sorted now, so on to some happy years of trouble free motoring (:D Ha Ha..).
The next projects are motorised rear quarter windows (Have the parts, just need some time, and patients), and then perhaps an on board Sat Nav. but need to save some pennies first.

Thanks for all your help, and hope to talk to you again sometime,

Cheers

Dave

g0gcd
02-03-2016, 02:29 PM
One last question, if I may...
Did you follow the web link that I posted when you changed your sensor? If you did, how easy was it to pop out the grommet and more importantly, how easy was it to get it back in?

I now have my new sensor and was going to try changing it without cutting the wiring this time.

I had motorised rear quarters on my Galaxy - and I used them ! It's the final touch of luxury... Good luck!

J

MyDave2003
03-03-2016, 02:26 AM
Hi John,

In answer to your question, yes the guide was good, and accurate.
The important part to remember is that you need to make sure that there is no chance that the 10mm bolt dropping down into the cam belt casing, but I guess you have worked this one out already? - I used a bit of rag as described in the guide.
I find a small hand mirror a good tool to have for jobs like this too - it means you can take a look at what you are trying to achieve, and where things are before you start taking the things apart, or putting them back together. (Was helpful to work out where the grommet was, to make sure that the sensor was located correctly, and the bolt hole lined up).

With regard to the grommet, I found that you can easily push this through from the belt side, back towards the gearbox side of the engine - less chance of loosing this down in the cover.
I did find that I had to work at this from both sides though, so not to drop it down the front of the engine...
Once the sensor is in place, the wire from this ends up in the cam belt cover, in a slot at the top and towards the windscreen, the grommet then pushes into the camshaft belt housing from the gearbox side, back towards the cam belt - making sure how far it has gone through with the other hand, from inside the cam belt cover.
This was pretty easy to get in and out, but I also found it easier to take the sensor out from the cam belt side and pull the connector through the hole.,
Fitting the new one was the reverse, feeding the connector through first, rather than fighting to get the sensor through the hole in the cam belt casing, - the hole seemed to be the shape of the connector to me..

I did, however, manage to drop a small socket wrench and the mirror, so had to take off the under tray to retrieve these, so I guess a lesson learned, and a need for a bit more concentration!

Don't forget little thread lock on the 10mm bolt - there are some serious vibrations where this sensor is mounted, and you don't want this coming loose..

As for me - trip to Canterbury today - Cruise control works fine, and no other troubles whatsoever - Yay!! :)

Hope all goes well with the sensor -

Cheers

Dave

g0gcd
03-03-2016, 07:53 AM
That's brilliant advice, thank you so much.
Saturday morning sorted then...
Have a good trip!
J

g0gcd
05-03-2016, 12:19 PM
All sorted now, many thanks.
My second Ebay sensor also didn't work, although the fitting was so much easier using the grommet approach.
I have bought the Intermotor one and that has worked perfectly, so thanks for the tip.
Having got the sensors all together on the bench, I have tried to work out why some work and some don't. The white plug ones, like the original and the Intermotor, pull the sense voltage from 5 to 0 when sensing metal. The black plug ones, like my eBay ones, work the other way up, pulling the sense voltage from 5 to 0 when NOT sensing metal. Hence, the implausible signal error - it's the wrong way up.
I would never have thought to check that!
Thanks again for your help!
John